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Thread: Y-DNA and mtDNA diversity

  1. #1
    Junior Member sljoza's Avatar
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    Y-DNA and mtDNA diversity

    I am wondering how come there is such a big diversity between distribution of Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups. For example - some parts of the Europe have 25% R1a, 30% I2a, 10% E... (you get it). And I stumble upon map where almost every European country has over 40% of mtDNA H-haplogroup.

    It came logical to me that there should be parallels between Y-DNA and mtDNA results in anthropological way (fo.e. common Y in Slavs is R1a, but I couldn't find what is dominant Slavic mtDNA?) and why it isn't so?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Moi-même's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Basically, because men and women don't always travel together. If we look at more modern population mix, Puerto Rico has about 60% of the population with Native American mt-haplogroup, 25% African and 15% European. On the Y side, 85% European and 15% African.

    What do you think happened there? And what make you think the same didn't happen in ancient times as well?

  3. #3
    Junior Member sljoza's Avatar
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    So you would suggest that (making it as simple as possible) One tribe/invader would kill/send to exile majority of original group males while they would leave women alone and mix with them? Yes that would explain diversity.

  4. #4
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moi-même View Post
    Basically, because men and women don't always travel together. If we look at more modern population mix, Puerto Rico has about 60% of the population with Native American mt-haplogroup, 25% African and 15% European. On the Y side, 85% European and 15% African.

    What do you think happened there? And what make you think the same didn't happen in ancient times as well?
    A great example Moi-meme!
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  5. #5
    Elite member Fire Haired14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moi-même View Post
    Basically, because men and women don't always travel together. If we look at more modern population mix, Puerto Rico has about 60% of the population with Native American mt-haplogroup, 25% African and 15% European. On the Y side, 85% European and 15% African.

    What do you think happened there? And what make you think the same didn't happen in ancient times as well?
    The formation of Puerto Rican Y DNA/mtDNA is not similar to the formation of *Pre-Historic* European Y DNA/mtDNA but is sort of similar to the formation of *Modern* European Y DNA/mtDNA. Puerto Rico(men travelling more than women) can not give an answer as to why European Y DNA/mtDNA throughout history was/is the way it was/is.

    Puerto Rican mtDNA/Y DNA is somewhat similar to Modern European mtDNA/Y DNA because there's sex bias admixture. Admixture between Steppe and West Asian Chalcoluthic/Bronze age newcomers and native Neolithic/Mesolithic(EEF, WHG)-descended Europeans in Europe was probably(not for sure) sex bias. However, a big difference is in Puerto Rico there's a diverse array of Spanish Y DNA while modern Europeans belong to a select handful of literally 1,000,000s of Steppe(and West Asian J2b and E-V13?) Y DNA lineages. As far as I know there were no mega-Y DNA Spanish fathers in Puerto Rico as there were mega-Y DNA Steppe(and two WHG/EEF fathers; I1 and I2a1b. And West Asian?; J2b, E-V13, etc.) fathers in Europe, instead there are probably 1,000,000s of different Spanish Y DNA lineages.

    The phenomenon of what I call mega-fathers is why mtDNA and Y DNA have different diversity in essentially every human population. There are also mega-mothers but they're usually less frequent.

    All four of the Mesolithic/Neolithic ancestors of Europeans belonged mostly to mega-father Y DNA haplogroups, this was long before the expansion of R1b-L151 and R1a-M417, it has nothing to do with them. Most WHGs(ruled most of Europe) belonged to I2a1, most Neolithic Anatolians belonged to G2a2, most Mesolithic Caucasins belonged to J, most Mesolithic Russians belonged to R1a1 and R1b1. Each group had more mtDNA diversity than Y DNA diversity. The West Asian ancestors; Anatolians and Caucasins, especially had more mtDNA diversity than Y DNA diversity, and are the source of essentially all European mtDNA that isn't U5 or U4 or U2.

    We see the same pattern with Y DNA O in NorthEast Asia(China, Japan,and Korea), Q1a in Native Americans, N1c in Finno Urgics, J1 in Arabs, E1b in Africans, the list goes on and on and on. The expansion of R1b-L151, R1a-M417, I1, I2a1b, E-V13, N1c, in Europe may be more extreme and more recent(expanded within a couple thousend years), but might be caused by similar things as mega-father Y DNA haplogroups around the world.

  6. #6
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    One of the reasons H looks so large is that it is not broken down into sub clades. H1 women are associated with different men than H4. Plus the men migrated and conquered (mostly) and the local women were the prize. Or once settled women moved to their husbands farm/ city.
    One of the latest papers (Sept 16) said that the ratio of the men to women in the Bronze Age invaders (Yamnaya) was 5:1 to 14:1. This was an analysis of the ancient DNA results comparing autosomal with X DNA.

  7. #7
    Regular Member hrvclv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    the ratio of the men to women in the Bronze Age invaders (Yamnaya) was 5:1 to 14:1. This was an analysis of the ancient DNA results comparing autosomal with X DNA.
    Wow ! Those were the days !!

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