Eurogenes Post your Eurogenes Steppe K10

[Goga]

double post

 

[Goga]

I noticed that Pamiri Tajiks have on average over 40% of Hindu Kush.

They also score a lot of Steppe (Yamnaya) and European Mesolithic (WHG-UHG), as well as Early Neolithic Farmer (Near Eastern).

Amazingly, they only score few % of East Asian, despite living near the border of China:

Tajiks are Iranian speaking people, they were close to Persians / Farsi folks. But they are heavily mixed with Slavic (Russian) and Turkic tribes. You can compare them to the ancient Steppe Scythians. Like the ancient 'Iraninized' Scythians of the Steppes. Scythians in the Steppes (mixture between Slavic and Turkic tribes) were 'Iranized' by East Iranian people from South East Asia (BMAC / Hindi Kush area).

Capital of Tajikistan is Dushanbe.

Dushanbe is an Iranian/Persian/Kurdish word for 'Monday'.


"Sh (Şem.)" of the word Dushanbe (names of weekdays) has Mesopotamian roots. From

Kurdish names of weekdays

Weekdays	Saturday	Sunday	Monday	Tuesday	Wednesday	Thursday	Friday
Rojî Hefte	Şeme	Yekşeme	Duşeme	Sêşeme	Çarşeme	Pêncşeme	Heyinî
Roja Heftan	Şemî	Yekşem	Duşem	Sêşem	Çarşem	Pêncşem	Înî
Abbreviations	Şe	Ye	Du	Sê	Ça	Pê	În

The Kurdish name for the first day of the week Sheme (Saturday) is in fact descended from Sumerian Shabbât !!!


Greek - Sabbaton
German - Samstag
Italian - sabato
Spanish - sábado
French - Samedi
Eglish - Saturday
Dutch - zaterdag
Russian - Суббота


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_calendar

 

[Tomenable]

Goga, here is a comparison of your results with another Iranian in Steppe K10:

(BTW, your combined % of Siberian+Amerindian is similar to his East Asian):

Admixture:	Zoran:	Goga:
Near Eastern	44,37	44,35
Hindu Kush	34,81	35,31
Steppe	12,48	13,35
WHG-UHG	5,22	2,94
East Asian	2,17	0,36
Sub Saharan	0,47	0,25
Oceanian	0,42	0,17
Southeast Asian	0,05	0,92
Siberian	-	1,23
Amerindian	-	1,11

This calculator is nonsense.

Yes probably you are right, it might be good for Europeans but not for Iranians.

But I just wanted to check your "Afanasievo_Yamnaya" score in that calculator.

For comparing overall ancestry, I think that HarappaWorld is better for Iranians.

A comparison of your, Iran_recent's and some Iranian results in HarappaWorld:

Admixture:	Zoran:	Arya:	Goga:	Iran 1400s:
Caucasian	40,79	40,88	?	45,47
Baloch	27,95	29,33	?	26,89
SW-Asian	13,29	14,96	?	13,13
NE-Euro	4,30	4,75	?	7,27
Mediterranean	8,05	4,17	?	4,87
S-Indian	2,99	3,71	?	1,23
Siberian	0,96	0,22	?	0,65
W-African	-	-	?	0,20
SE-Asian	-	0,27	?	0,18
Beringian	-	0,26	?	0,12
NE-Asian	-	0,39	?	-
Papuan	0,28	0,92	?	-
American	0,67	-	?	-
San	0,63	-	?	-
E-African	0,07	0,14	?	-
Pygmy	-	-	?	-

Can you post your HarappaWorld results? I will edit this post and add them too.

 

[Goga]

For comparing overall ancestry, I think that HarappaWorld is better for Iranians.

A comparison of your, Iran_recent's and some Iranian results in HarappaWorld:

...

Can you post your HarappaWorld results? I will edit this post and add them too.

Thanks, but who is this Zoran person? Is (s)he Kurdish? Zoran's auDNA is very similar to me.

My friend, first of all I'm NOT an Iranian-Persian. I'm not from Iran. I'm a 'pure' ethnic Ezdi Kurd born in Georgia (USSR). Because of my native Kurdish religion I'm not mixed with Turks or Arabs/Semites at least for the last 1000 of years. My roots are from both, North and South Kurdistan. Kurds are descendants of the Medes. 2000 years ago Persians and Medes were almost identical to each other and you can see this even nowadays. Even today there are very much similarities between Kurds (Medes) and Iranians (Persians).

But Kurds are DIFFERENT from Persians. Our languages are similar but not the same. It is like differences between Dutch, Danes and Germans..


Ethnically speaking, the closest people to Kurds are Persians, then Caucasians (Georgians, Maykop folks/Adygeans).

Admixture:	Zoran:	Arya:	Goga:	Iran 1400s:
Caucasian	40,79	40,88	40.84	45,47
Baloch	27,95	29,33	27.86	26,89
SW-Asian	13,29	14,96	13.9	13,13
NE-Euro	4,30	4,75	3.92	7,27
Mediterranean	8,05	4,17	8.27	4,87
S-Indian	2,99	3,71	2.23	1,23
Siberian	0,96	0,22	1.08	0,65
W-African	-	-	-	0,20
SE-Asian	-	0,27	0.57	0,18
Beringian	-	0,26	-	0,12
NE-Asian	-	0,39	-	-
Papuan	0,28	0,92	0.36	-
American	0,67	-	0.98	-
San	0,63	-	-	-
E-African	0,07	0,14	-	-
Pygmy	-	-	-	-

 

[Tomenable]

Thanks, but who is this Zoran person? Is (s)he Kurdish? Zoran's auDNA is very similar to me.

(...)

Kurds are descendants of the Medes.

Zoran is a Western Iranian and he says that his ancestors were Medes and Parthians.

Kurds and Iranians are very similar.

Ethnically speaking, the closest people to Kurds are Persians, then Caucasians (Georgians, Maykop folks/Adygeans).

Also Armenians are close.

 

[Goga]

Also Armenians are close.

Close, but not that close. Armenians are quite different. Armenians are more shifted toward the Levant, Med. Sea. Armenians match better with (and closer to) Druze and Cypriots, than with Kurds, Iranians and Adygeians.

+ Armenian are closer to Georgians than to Iranians, Kurds and Adygeians

 

[Tomenable]

I compared my results with RISE150 - who lived in what is now Poland, but ~3900 years ago:

I used calculator puntDNAL K15 for this comparison:

1) My result:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 2.06
2 Swedish 4.03
3 Norwegian 6.35
4 North_German 6.79
5 Belarusian 7.58
6 Slovenian 7.94

2) RISE 150:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 5.58
2 North_German 5.95
3 Polish 6.07
4 Slovenian 6.29
5 Norwegian 6.58
6 Hungarian 7.41

She has the same populations as top results in "population sharing" - only in different order.

This cannot be coincidence. RISE150 was a sample of Unetice culture:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/copperbronzeagedna.shtml

RISE150 is available on GEDmatch (kit number F999948):

http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html

 

[Tomenable]

Please note, that:

These GEDmatch calculators (such as puntDNAL K15 used above) are good in detecting even very old admixtures, from several thousand years ago. On the other hand, ancestry reports from DNALand, 23andMe or FTDNA are only accurate in showing ancestry no more than up to one thousand years ago. They are good for recent history.

This is why I was very suprised when puntDNAL K15 Oracle showed that I have similar admixture proportions to Swedes, even though according to FTDNA I do not have any Scandinavian admixture.

I understood what is going on only after comparing my results to those of RISE150.

These admixtures have been present here already in the Bronze Age!

====================

My FTDNA report - no any Scandinavian admixture, only Eastern + Central Euro:
(but as I wrote, this report covers accurately only the last 1000 years, at best)

 

[LeBrok]

I compared my results with RISE150 - who lived in what is now Poland, but ~3900 years ago:

I used calculator puntDNAL K15 for this comparison:

1) My result:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 2.06
2 Swedish 4.03
3 Norwegian 6.35
4 North_German 6.79
5 Belarusian 7.58
6 Slovenian 7.94

2) RISE 150:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 5.58
2 North_German 5.95
3 Polish 6.07
4 Slovenian 6.29
5 Norwegian 6.58
6 Hungarian 7.41

She has the same populations as top results in "population sharing" - only in different order.

This cannot be coincidence. RISE150 was a sample of Unetice culture:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/copperbronzeagedna.shtml

RISE150 is available on GEDmatch (kit number F999948):

http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html

They are not too much off, and point to genetic stability since Bronze age in this area. However, do we see a little shift to the East, to Slavic nations?
Do we have any samples from 500BC to 500AD, to see how it looked before Slavic expansion? To have a look at these "Veneti" or Germanic expansion in the area.

1	Polish	1.79
2	Swedish	4.49
3	Belarusian	6.58
4	Norwegian	6.72
5	North_German	7.69
6	Russian	8.03

I'm shifted more East/Slavic than you. Geographically it makes sense too, as my origin is few hundred kilometers more east than yours.

 

[Twilight]

Sorry! Wrong link.

SteppeK10: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-XBmvmgdkfVM2RRRHlRSkcwV0k/view

I used R software for Windows. See the "readme": https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7AJcY18g2GaZGU4OWQ5OWItMzY2NC00NzI1LWIzNWMtMzUxYWI4NjRmMTlk/view

A summary based on the readme file:

1 - Download, install and run R software.

2 - "Once R is running, it will give you a command prompt where you can enter commands. First, you must change the directory to your working directory.
You can do this from the File -> Change dir menu in Windows"

3 - At the R prompt, enter:
source('standardize.r')

"This loads a small program that will convert your data from the
company-specific format to a common format in the next step."

4 - At the R prompt, enter:
a. If you have 23andMe data (either v2 or v3 chip):
standardize('yourgenome.txt', company='23andMe')

b. if you have Family Finder data (Illumina chip only):
standardize('yourgenome.csv', company='ftdna')

5 - At the R prompt, enter:
system('DIYDodecadWin steppe.par')

Im afraid my IPad can't download using the R software. Do you knowing there is a way for my IPad to download Steepes10?

 

[LeBrok]

Im afraid my IPad can't download using the R software. Do you knowing there is a way for my IPad to download Steepes10?

It is not going well for me either, I've downloaded all but can't quickly figure out all the necessary steps. Foreign concept for me to run programs in a program and have with weird names to the right folders. I don't want to spend hours with this to experiment endlessly what works. I need baby steps manual, if someone cares to right them down.

 

[LeBrok]

I compared my results with RISE150 - who lived in what is now Poland, but ~3900 years ago:



2) RISE 150:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 5.58
2 North_German 5.95
3 Polish 6.07
4 Slovenian 6.29
5 Norwegian 6.58
6 Hungarian 7.41

What is very interesting is the fact that Rise 150 is almost at equal distance to modern populations of Germanics and Slavs of the Area. All from 5.58 to 6.58, that's a very small margin to fit all in. This must be true Corded Ware heritage for both groups.

 

[Tomenable]

Now I tried 1-to-1 comparison:

Comparing Kit T269964 (*Tomenable) and F999948 (RISE150,Poland,3.4ky):

Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 25 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 25 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

Largest segment = 4.7 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 1,142.2 cM
701 matching segments

307164 SNPs used for this comparison.

Comparison took 0.03335 seconds.

===================================

Comparing Kit T269964 (*Tomenable) and F999933 (BR2, Hungary, 3.2ky):

Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 25 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 25 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

Largest segment = 6.8 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 1,488.4 cM
921 matching segments

657082 SNPs used for this comparison.

Comparison took 0.04641 seconds.

=============
=============

I have 701 matching segments with RISE150 and a bit more (921) with Hungarian BR2.

However, Hungarian BR2 is not similar to me and to RISE150 in "Single Population Sharing".

In puntDNAL K15:

3) BR2 (Kyjatice culture):

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Utahn_White 4.41
2 South_German 4.52
3 French 5.02
4 English 6
5 Orcadian 6.91
6 Scottish 7.3
7 Irish 7.61

BR2 has totally different populations (no Poles, no Swedes, no Slovenians, no Norwegians, etc.).

I'm not sure how to interpret this (why more of matching segments, if less matching populations?).

 

[LeBrok]

Now I tried 1-to-1 comparison:

Comparing Kit T269964 (*Tomenable) and F999948 (RISE150,Poland,3.4ky):

Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 25 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 25 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

Largest segment = 4.7 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 1,142.2 cM
701 matching segments

307164 SNPs used for this comparison.

Comparison took 0.03335 seconds.

===================================

Comparing Kit T269964 (*Tomenable) and F999933 (BR2, Hungary, 3.2ky):

Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 25 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 25 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

Largest segment = 6.8 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 1,488.4 cM
921 matching segments

657082 SNPs used for this comparison.

Comparison took 0.04641 seconds.

=============
=============

I have 701 matching segments with RISE150 and a bit more (921) with Hungarian BR2.

However, Hungarian BR2 is not similar to me and to RISE150 in "Single Population Sharing".

In puntDNAL K15:

3) BR2 (Kyjatice culture):

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Utahn_White 4.41
2 South_German 4.52
3 French 5.02
4 English 6
5 Orcadian 6.91
6 Scottish 7.3
7 Irish 7.61

BR2 has totally different populations (no Poles, no Swedes, no Slovenians, no Norwegians, etc.).

I'm not sure how to interpret this (why more of matching segments, if less matching populations?).

Because the other populations are even closer to him than you. For example French can have: Total of segments > 1 cM = 1,600 cM and 1002 matching segments

I wonder if BR2 is the source of Celtic type IEs?

 

[Tomenable]

I carried out also a 1-to-1 comparison with Hinxton-4 (Iron Age Briton) - just to make sure that I'm not as closely related to Ancient Britons as to RISE150 (which would imply that there is nothing special about this similarity with RISE150):

Comparing Kit T269964 (*Tomenable) and F999925 (Hinxton-4, UK, 2ky):

Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 25 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 25 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

Largest segment = 2.7 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 162.9 cM
125 matching segments

575225 SNPs used for this comparison.

Comparison took 0.02972 seconds.

========================

Only 125 segments, much fewer than with RISE150 and BR2.

 

[LeBrok]

I carried out also a 1-to-1 comparison with Hinxton-4 (Iron Age Briton) - just to make sure that I'm not as closely related to Ancient Britons as to RISE150 (which would imply that there is nothing special about this similarity with RISE150):

Comparing Kit T269964 (*Tomenable) and F999925 (Hinxton-4, UK, 2ky):

Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 25 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 25 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

Largest segment = 2.7 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 162.9 cM
125 matching segments

575225 SNPs used for this comparison.

Comparison took 0.02972 seconds.

========================

Only 125 segments, much fewer than with RISE150 and BR2.

That's a bit weird perhaps, but keep in mind that matches will be fewer if we are not dealing with the whole genome. Many ancient genomes are only partial.

 

[Fluffy]

It is not going well for me either, I've downloaded all but can't quickly figure out all the necessary steps. Foreign concept for me to run programs in a program and have with weird names to the right folders. I don't want to spend hours with this to experiment endlessly what works. I need baby steps manual, if someone cares to right them down.

LOL same here man. I can't figure this out unless I am willing to spend hours to study it.

 

[Tomenable]

Some more ancients in puntDNAL K15 calculator:

Iron Age Celtic Briton was most similar to modern Irish, Anglo-Saxon to modern Swedes:

Hinxton-4 (Celtic Briton, 2000 ybp):

Kit F999925. Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Irish 2.38
2 North_German 2.95
3 Orcadian 3.03
4 English 3.05
5 Scottish 3.18
6 Norwegian 4.4
7 Slovenian 4.44
8 Austrian 4.91

Hinxton-2 (Anglo-Saxon, 1300 ybp):

Kit F999921. Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 4.3
2 Norwegian 4.41
3 Scottish 5.73
4 North_German 5.87
5 Polish 6.44
6 Orcadian 6.82
7 English 7.24
8 Irish 7.93

==========================

It is quite surprising, that North Germans are similar both to Celtic Briton & to Anglo-Saxon.

Even more surprising, that Germans are more similar to Celtic Briton than to Saxon.

Perhaps she (Hinxton-2) was not even a Saxon, but either an Angle or a Jute.

==========================

Modern English are closer to Celtic Briton (distance 3.05) than to unmixed Anglo-Jute-Saxon (distance 7.24). This is in agreement with recent studies (from 2015-2016) which showed that the English have mostly Celtic / Briton ancestry.

"Pure Anglo-Saxon-Jutes" were Scandinavian-like rather than English-like or German-like.

This also shows why it is hard to distinguish Anglo-Saxon-Jute and Danish-Swedish Viking ancestry.

Only Norwegian Viking ancestry can be distinguished, because Norwegians are a bit different.

 

[Twilight]

It is not going well for me either, I've downloaded all but can't quickly figure out all the necessary steps. Foreign concept for me to run programs in a program and have with weird names to the right folders. I don't want to spend hours with this to experiment endlessly what works. I need baby steps manual, if someone cares to right them down.

LOL same here man. I can't figure this out unless I am willing to spend hours to study it.

Im glad I'm not the only one, hopefully our personal results will come to us soon.
Best of luck to Davidski, it appears that near Eastern genome among Bedouins in 60% and 2% WHG so SteepesK10 sounds promising.

 

[LeBrok]

I share 701 matching segments with RISE150 and 921 with BR2.

Numbers such as 701 - 921 matching segments seem to be a lot.

I made a similar comparison with ancient and modern Iranians:

Kit T637158 (Medieval Iranian) shares 758 segments with a modern Iranian.

Kit M124870 (Copper Age Iranian) shares 597 segments with a modern Iranian.

Finally, T637158 and M124870 share 380 matching segments with each other.

Criteria of comparison were the same in each case:

As I said before, perhaps it depends how much ancient DNA was recovered? Most of them are partial.