Balkan R1a1a & maternal H11a

Dibran

Regular Member
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Ethnic group
Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
Y-DNA haplogroup
R-L1029>Y133379
mtDNA haplogroup
H11a2b*
Hi all. I'm new to the forum. Been lurking for ages.

A little about me. I am Albanian from Dibra Vogel in the valley of Martanesh. My fathers side originally comes from Mirdita.

My mothers side is from Puka in the Malsi region though her mother is from Kosovo where her H11a comes from.

According to the paternal ancestry, I am R1a1a. I am curious as to what link this represents to Balkan migrations. Is it a Thracian haplogroup or Slavic one? Or is it common in both?

my mothers family originally descend from the Cham Gjon Bua Shpata, during the time before the Ottoman incursions.

The DNA composition stated 93% of DNA was reflective of Balkan people's with a predominant Greek, than Albanian, than Romanian composition based on relative populations. 3.5 percent broadly Southern European, .5 percent Japanese. 1% Italian and 1% Eastern European.

interestingly, those of genetic relation to me on the predominant Greek side of both my mother and father had surnames almost exactly the same as that of my paternal grandmother, and my grandfathers mother.

My grandmothers maiden name was Stafa and the Greek relative had the surname Stafas.

My grandfathers mother on my mothers side had the surname Pitsari. The common relative had the last name Pitsaris. Perhaps coincidence but considering relation maybe not.

I know H11a is broad and represented amongst the Basques and Swedes, and curious how it reached the Balkans.

Similarly as I understand it did R1a1a migrate from the Black Sea? Perhaps one of the haplogroups carried by the Thracians.

My father would say Gjergj Fishta claimed our ancestors migrated from the Black Sea in antiquity, though I cannot confirm that as I cannot find this information.

Just curious as as to information on this subject matter as I am rather new to all of it.

Peace.
 
Welcome to Eupedia Dibran.
 
The earliest R1a1 in Europe are found in mesolithic Karelia, late neolithic (border of Russia & Belarus). Bronze age Corded-ware. Mal'ta boy having R* lived in Altai 24,000 years.

I can't remember a sample being tested for R1a1 from the Pontic Steppes. R1a1 was probably in the Balkan present prior to Slavic migration. Much of R1a1 was brought in the Balkans by Slavs.
 
Hello, Dibran.
R1a1a was carried by a lot more people than just Slavic speakers. If you want to be more certain (100% you will never be) you can take a deep analysis of your paternal line, to see exactly what branch of R1a1a you are carrying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#R-M17.2FM198_.28R1a1a.29
 
U can't really link R1a1 to any ethnic group, but as mihaitzateo said u can do a deeper test to find the exact mutations and such.

R1a1 was definitely carried and brought to the Balkans by Illyrians, Thracians, Hellens, as well as Slavs later on.

Though u can still speculate on the origin by tracing ur origin as u did and went as far as Mirdita, which has a very rugged hilly terrain, making it very unlikely for Slavs to have settled there. Slavs settled predominantly on lowlands unless they were forced by invasions (e.g. Ottoman invasion).

R1a1 among Herzegovinians is 12% if I'm not mistaken, which is a normal old Balkanic percentage, thus possibly indicating mostly a non-Slavic origin.

But one thing is for sure that u will never know if its Illyrian, Thracian or Hellenic :D And I think that doesnt even matter as long as u know that its not Slavic
 
U can't really link R1a1 to any ethnic group, but as mihaitzateo said u can do a deeper test to find the exact mutations and such.

R1a1 was definitely carried and brought to the Balkans by Illyrians, Thracians, Hellens, as well as Slavs later on.

Though u can still speculate on the origin by tracing ur origin as u did and went as far as Mirdita, which has a very rugged hilly terrain, making it very unlikely for Slavs to have settled there. Slavs settled predominantly on lowlands unless they were forced by invasions (e.g. Ottoman invasion).

R1a1 among Herzegovinians is 12% if I'm not mistaken, which is a normal old Balkanic percentage, thus possibly indicating mostly a non-Slavic origin.

But one thing is for sure that u will never know if its Illyrian, Thracian or Hellenic :D And I think that doesnt even matter as long as u know that its not Slavic


Hey Nikm My guess is Thracians considering I don't fit the Illyrian or Hellenic archetype. More alpine med In appearance. Then again who knows. A Slav could have slipped in the cracks but unlikely. My family left when they converted because Mirdita are pretty strictly dedicated to a catholic tradition. Original surname was Pershpalaj.

Caucasoid admixture was 4 percent roughly. No Slavic was listed in the ancestry profile either. Is there a way to see what type of R1a1a I have? I didn't see a mutation listed with 23andme. I don't want to pay hundreds just to find that out. Is there a way one here can tell by examining my genetic profile if I emailed them?

i did find it odd that most of the genetic relatives on 23andme were of Greek origin. Specifically northern. And Epirus. Oddly the surname of one Greek matches my paternal grandmother which was Stafa, and his name was stafas. Also a pitsaris matched my maternal great grandmother who had the name Pitsari.

My my moms family name is Shpata, traced back to Gjon Buas Shpata. They were the only Muslim family in Malsia Pukes. Which lends the possibility of migration to there from another village.

What's confusing is, I put my results through GedMatch using K36 calculator(according to this forum most accurate of ancestry) it's so vastly different from 23andme though.

With th that it said I'm 93percent Balkan with a drop of Italian Japanese and eastern euro.

GedMatch is so vastly different from that result I'm left wondering what's accurate?

apparently I'm predominantly of Roman and Iberian origin, with a third of Balkan and eastern med and admixtures of basque Armenian and central and north euro.


The neolithic calculator said I'm predominantly of early European farmers and Neolithic Balkan farmers with a bit of Baltic hunter gatherers. (Whatever that means) lol

i apologize for all the questions. New to this DNA stuff.

My moms H11a which I barely find any information on also. Aside from basic H root haplogroup which is not very defined.
 
Hello, Dibran.
R1a1a was carried by a lot more people than just Slavic speakers. If you want to be more certain (100% you will never be) you can take a deep analysis of your paternal line, to see exactly what branch of R1a1a you are carrying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#R-M17.2FM198_.28R1a1a.29

Any free tools like gedmatch that can decipher the exact mutation of R1a1a that I have?
 
Hey Nikm My guess is Thracians considering I don't fit the Illyrian or Hellenic archetype. More alpine med In appearance. Then again who knows. A Slav could have slipped in the cracks but unlikely. My family left when they converted because Mirdita are pretty strictly dedicated to a catholic tradition. Original surname was Pershpalaj.

Caucasoid admixture was 4 percent roughly. No Slavic was listed in the ancestry profile either. Is there a way to see what type of R1a1a I have? I didn't see a mutation listed with 23andme. I don't want to pay hundreds just to find that out. Is there a way one here can tell by examining my genetic profile if I emailed them?

i did find it odd that most of the genetic relatives on 23andme were of Greek origin. Specifically northern. And Epirus. Oddly the surname of one Greek matches my paternal grandmother which was Stafa, and his name was stafas. Also a pitsaris matched my maternal great grandmother who had the name Pitsari.

My my moms family name is Shpata, traced back to Gjon Buas Shpata. They were the only Muslim family in Malsia Pukes. Which lends the possibility of migration to there from another village.

What's confusing is, I put my results through GedMatch using K36 calculator(according to this forum most accurate of ancestry) it's so vastly different from 23andme though.

With th that it said I'm 93percent Balkan with a drop of Italian Japanese and eastern euro.

GedMatch is so vastly different from that result I'm left wondering what's accurate?

apparently I'm predominantly of Roman and Iberian origin, with a third of Balkan and eastern med and admixtures of basque Armenian and central and north euro.


The neolithic calculator said I'm predominantly of early European farmers and Neolithic Balkan farmers with a bit of Baltic hunter gatherers. (Whatever that means) lol

i apologize for all the questions. New to this DNA stuff.

My moms H11a which I barely find any information on also. Aside from basic H root haplogroup which is not very defined.
Post your gedmatch results with the latest calculators and we might help you.
 
Hi Dibran.

Unfortunately, 23andMe is not very useful in exploring one's Y-DNA due to a very low haplogroup SNP resolution. Autosomal DNA will not help either, unless someone's Y-DNA is a fairly recent arrival to a region (last 500 years). At 23andMe R1a1a corresponds to R1a-M198, TMRCA 8500 ybp, so you could be any subclade downstream: www.yfull.com/tree/R-M198/

It's interesting your Y-DNA is R1a1a. That Y-DNA seems to be not common among us Albanians according to scientific studies I've seen, at about 3-5%.

If you wish to explore your Y-DNA further, you may test at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37). However, keep in mind that your Y-DNA may turn out to be as a result of Slavic migrations to the Balkans. You may order from here: https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?group=AlbanianBloodlines&code=B11086

There is very limited (if any) ancient Y-DNA results from the Balkans, so we have no evidence that R1a was present among Thracians or some other ancient Balkanic tribe. Hypothetically speaking, even if it was, it wouldn't necessarily mean it was the same R1a1a subclade as yours. That's why deeper testing is more useful in these things.
 
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Hi Dibran, with regards to your identification with the Thracians, none of thr sub races was exclusive to a certain ethnicity. When we talk about the Balkans, being alpine or med means you're more likely from the lowlands or mixed while Dinarics are mainly from the mountains and more isolated regions.

That said, there's plenty of Alpines and meds especially in Dibra and Mirdita, not counting ur mother ancestry on the other hand.

About ur haplogroup, Trojet gave u an informative answer so stick to it.

And i I wouldn't waste my time in GedMatch or other useless calculators giving u origins from all over the world. People moved a lot, we know that. We still do, perhaps even more.
 
Hi Dibran, with regards to your identification with the Thracians, none of thr sub races was exclusive to a certain ethnicity. When we talk about the Balkans, being alpine or med means you're more likely from the lowlands or mixed while Dinarics are mainly from the mountains and more isolated regions.

That said, there's plenty of Alpines and meds especially in Dibra and Mirdita, not counting ur mother ancestry on the other hand.

About ur haplogroup, Trojet gave u an informative answer so stick to it.

And i I wouldn't waste my time in GedMatch or other useless calculators giving u origins from all over the world. People moved a lot, we know that. We still do, perhaps even more.

Thanks for the response guys. As I understand it, autosomal DNA shows closer expression of pooled ancestry no?

Single population calculators turn Yip Albanian predominantly. I am more med alpine hybrid by appearance.
 
You should made Genographic for better informations about your R1a because 23andme is useless for Y-Chromosome, but good for ancestry composition.
 
It most likely come to Balkan with Slavic migration but still it is cool haplogroup to carry, i would listen to Trojes advice and join Albanian project. Best regards.
 
Yes my Albanian friend your great....etc granpappy was from a Slavic or proto-Slavic tribe.
I thought mine would be Slavic apparently it's more Germanic.
So don't hate on your Slavic brethern anymore. I'm trying to understand the westerners/Germans more now...
Jk i know the ydna is only a tiny fraction of your total genetics.
Suka blyat! Glory to comrade Putin! I'm still mostly east European haha
 
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Hello, just adding to the thread. I've only had my maternal line tested and it came back as H11a. Also from the Balkans (Dalmatian coastline).
 
Hello, just adding to the thread. I've only had my maternal line tested and it came back as H11a. Also from the Balkans (Dalmatian coastline).

Have you dont Full Mtdna sequence? it would give you your specific branch under H11a. For instance I am H11a2 which is a little more rare, but widespread all over europe to Asia. I noticed most South Slavs that were H11a were either H11a1(A few Serbian users on Apricity), and H11a2a2(which seems more northern and central/eastern, but a couple South Slavs had that branch as well. Won't know for sure till you test further. H11a2 is pretty unknown, in my case doesnt tell me much. H11a itself is old, so its probably not your specific branch but further down H11a to some of its diverging branches.
 
You should made Genographic for better informations about your R1a because 23andme is useless for Y-Chromosome, but good for ancestry composition.

Hi Dibran, with regards to your identification with the Thracians, none of thr sub races was exclusive to a certain ethnicity. When we talk about the Balkans, being alpine or med means you're more likely from the lowlands or mixed while Dinarics are mainly from the mountains and more isolated regions.

That said, there's plenty of Alpines and meds especially in Dibra and Mirdita, not counting ur mother ancestry on the other hand.

About ur haplogroup, Trojet gave u an informative answer so stick to it.

And i I wouldn't waste my time in GedMatch or other useless calculators giving u origins from all over the world. People moved a lot, we know that. We still do, perhaps even more.

Hello, Dibran.
R1a1a was carried by a lot more people than just Slavic speakers. If you want to be more certain (100% you will never be) you can take a deep analysis of your paternal line, to see exactly what branch of R1a1a you are carrying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#R-M17.2FM198_.28R1a1a.29


Hi all, so I did test with Full Genomes. Yelite 2.1 to be exact. I was confirmed R1a-M458-L1029*, negative downstream mutations. It appears I am basal L1029* which seems a little older(TMRCA 2000-2350ypb), and more widespread[north, central, east, south east, and partly western Europe(England, Ireland)].

Its most likely arrival was probably the great migration slavs. But, given my rare cluster, and negative downstream confirmation, it could have arrived in an alternate way. Guess I won't know until others test further. I have 25 unique SNPs discovered. Uploaded to Yfull(still processing). I did receive placement though.

The other L1029* are only related between 2-2350 years ago. I guess the asterisk means each L1029 with it forms their own cluster.

Michal suspects I form a founder affect with my only close match from yseq(Albanian from Gostivar, TMRCA 1000ypb). All my FGC matches were 350BC and further back for MRCA.

Closest FGC matches were 2 Germans. They may or may not be the existing German samples on Yfull. Time will tell.

I split paternal and maternal relatives on both sides on 23andme and narrowed down all the M417 confirmed males on my fathers line. They may or may not belong to the same branch. However, of the 20 or so matches, half or so were anonymous, a couple of which listed they were from Albania and Greece. Other M417 were scattered between Greece, Romania, Moldova, and Bulgaria(one from near Arbanas). The one Albanian confirmed didnt list where in Albania he is from, surnamed Osmanaj.

Per Michal, I may or may not form this hypothetical cluster upstream YP263(which is supposedly higher in the east balkans though I have no sources to confirm this). However, the SNP is too unstable, so it may or may not be the case. I will have to wait until more with my line are tested.

Interestingly finding Koci near Berat and Korce, where alot of my 23 matches are from too.

Idk how updated maps are, but this is the spread of L1029 on FTDNA:

l10291.png



L1029.png
 

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