The journey of CTS5856

[FuriousGeorge]

I enjoy reading OP's stuff, especially since this is my branch. I'm bumping this hoping he gets a ping.

The origin

The general theory is that V13/CTS5856 originated in the southern Balkan since it reaches its highest levels there. Based on recent analysis of V13*, CTS5856*, and its direct descendants, and some info about V13 in the Alps I think otherwise. It seems likely to me that CTS5856 and some of its oldest branches mutated in the border region of Germany, France and Switzerland, near Lake Constance and the sources of the Danube. In this region we find two V13* of the four we know.

I can say that this seems to jive with my results. When I was looking over my STR results with a cousin of mine, before I understood things like str convergence, we both remarked that there seemed to be a link to the Hapsburgs of Austria (we are Spanish).

One thing I'd like to ask is how you think the two Druze samples in this branch fit into the puzzle. Unfortunately, I can't produce any sort of matrix of relationships. For reference, on yfull they are my fifth and sixth closest result, after flags from England, US, Null (but known US), Italian, respectively, with the Swedes tied for 6th. The Belgians, Saudi Arabian, and Englishman in the Druze's group are tied for least shared SNP with me.

The fact that one is more closely related to the English kit than the other, as you point out elsewhere, precludes a recent founder effect. So what do you suspect continued to connect NW Europe to SW Asia?

[Hairarmy]

I traced my Tree back to 1300's England with the Goode Family line. I tested E-V13 with 23&me ad M35 with the Y DNA 67 test that also confirms the Goode Family Connection in FTDNA. I am a novice and am learning as I go.
One of my closest matches on the FTDNA site, is CTS5856 he did the Y-111 test. We also match 89%last 4 generations. Anyway, I find this all very interesting. Is there a list of Surnames associated with CT5856?

[digital_noise]

I traced my Tree back to 1300's England with the Goode Family line. I tested E-V13 with 23&me ad M35 with the Y DNA 67 test that also confirms the Goode Family Connection in FTDNA. I am a novice and am learning as I go.
One of my closest matches on the FTDNA site, is CTS5856 he did the Y-111 test. We also match 89%last 4 generations. Anyway, I find this all very interesting. Is there a list of Surnames associated with CT5856?

Note that CTS5656 is 4500+ years old so there was plenty of time to migrate and adopt/change surnames. Go to the FTDNA E-V13 group page and pull up the results. unless they are recent relatives, there is about 600+ people with different surnames all belonging to E-V13

[Dibran]

I guess you did not even know who the Dorians were.

and High concentration of V-13 has nothing to do Dorians, rather with Achaians,
R1a is closer to Dorians than V-13

The near entirety of most R1a discovered in the Balkans(including Greece) only dates back between 1500-2000 years ago, all clades of which are predominantly found in Balto-Slavs(M458/Z280). I think you just can't accepts that Proto-Slavic tribes had a big impact in Greece at various intervals of the Early and late middle ages.

Whatever R1a Dorians had(if that) seems to have gone extinct. Clades of V13, J2b,R1b is far more likely.

[Illyri]

The near entirety of most R1a discovered in the Balkans(including Greece) only dates back between 1500-2000 years ago, all clades of which are predominantly found in Balto-Slavs(M458/Z280). I think you just can't accepts that Proto-Slavic tribes had a big impact in Greece at various intervals of the Early and late middle ages.

Whatever R1a Dorians had(if that) seems to have gone extinct. Clades of V13, J2b,R1b is far more likely.

Indeed.
And in my humble opinion it is meaningless to mention R1a in general without specifying which subclades would be dorian related.
By the way, it is not the first time I read such unsubstatiated assertions about ancient Greek, Macedonian and/or Dorian R1a but no serious source or evidence is ever quoted.
Unless this is all about the proto-thracian R1a-Z93 (which could only be relevant for a tiny minority of the R1a clades nowadays found in the Balkans).


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[Dibran]

Indeed.
And in my humble opinion it is meaningless to mention R1a in general without specifying which subclades would be dorian related.
By the way, it is not the first time I read such unsubstatiated assertions about ancient Greek, Macedonian and/or Dorian R1a but no serious source or evidence is ever quoted.
Unless this is all about the proto-thracian R1a-Z93 (which could only be relevant for a tiny minority of the R1a clades nowadays found in the Balkans).


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True. However, I don't think any one matches the Proto-Thracian R1a-Z93. As far as I understand, the Z93 in the Balkans is mostly from Scythians/Sarmatians/Turkic tribes. I think the Proto-Thracian was basal Z93 if I am not mistaken. For all we know they could discover Z280/M458 among Thracians/Dacians, but chances are slim and if it does appear, I imagine it would be a trickle effect from neighboring Proto Slavs that were abosrbed by them. In which case, they should show up in Late Iron Age Thracians/Dacians and not before. Chances are slim however.