GEDMatch HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

[LeBrok]

Samples from Greece are interesting. It is possible that all Greece was like Cyprus before IE Greeks invasion. We just need to subtract 6 points of NE Euro.
Greek east islands are not too much different, they just have more NE Euro, which dilutes other components. This must be close to state of Greek population before Slavic invasion.
Greek mainland, original occupants of mid Bronze Age + IE Greeks + Slavs.

Europeans	# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Greek, mainland	3	0	6	32	25	0	0	0	0	0	0	26	11	0	0	0	0
Greek, Islands, East	5	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	0	0
Cyprus	4	1	10	44	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	20	17	0	0	0	0

I would guess that IE Greeks invaders were something like Bronze Age Hungarian. Roughly we would need 1 IE invader to 3-4 locals to make Cypriots look like Greek islanders.

BR1 Hungary
Population
S-Indian	-
Baloch	3.15
Caucasian	14.73
NE-Euro	46.18
SE-Asian	0.2
Siberian	-
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	0.18
American	-
Beringian	-
Mediterranean	31.73
SW-Asian	3.33
San	-
E-African	-
Pygmy	-
W-African	0.48

 

[Angela]

Samples from Greece are interesting. It is possible that all Greece was like Cyprus before IE Greeks invasion. We just need to subtract 6 points of NE Euro.
Greek east islands are not too much different, they just have more NE Euro, which dilutes other components. This must be close to state of Greek population before Slavic invasion.
Greek mainland, original occupants of mid Bronze Age + IE Greeks + Slavs.

Europeans	# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Greek, mainland	3	0	6	32	25	0	0	0	0	0	0	26	11	0	0	0	0
Greek, Islands, East	5	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	0	0
Cyprus	4	1	10	44	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	20	17	0	0	0	0

I would guess that IE Greeks invaders were something like Bronze Age Hungarian. Roughly we would need 1 IE invader to 3-4 locals to make Cypriots look like Greek islanders.

BR1 Hungary
Population
S-Indian	-
Baloch	3.15
Caucasian	14.73
NE-Euro	46.18
SE-Asian	0.2
Siberian	-
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	0.18
American	-
Beringian	-
Mediterranean	31.73
SW-Asian	3.33
San	-
E-African	-
Pygmy	-
W-African	0.48

Good call. I've seen some formal stats for Italians that show the best "mixing" population is indeed Bronze Age Hungarian. (If I mis-remembered that, Fire-Haired can correct it.)

Fwiw, Copper Age Otzi had the same amount of SWAsian as modern Tuscans (about 9-10%, I think). Now, obviously there were genetic changes after that, but it's unlikely, in my opinion, that it was totally wiped out and then totally replaced.

The thing about Egyptians, which, if my memory serves, was often said about Crete, has been proved incorrect by ancient dna.

This is the population that first hit Crete, perhaps a population that originated in southern Anatolia. Ancient dna should tell us more.

 

[Hauteville]

Samples from Greece are interesting. It is possible that all Greece was like Cyprus before IE Greeks invasion. We just need to subtract 6 points of NE Euro.
Greek east islands are not too much different, they just have more NE Euro, which dilutes other components. This must be close to state of Greek population before Slavic invasion.
Greek mainland, original occupants of mid Bronze Age + IE Greeks + Slavs.

Europeans	# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Greek, mainland	3	0	6	32	25	0	0	0	0	0	0	26	11	0	0	0	0
Greek, Islands, East	5	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	0	0
Cyprus	4	1	10	44	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	20	17	0	0	0	0

I would guess that IE Greeks invaders were something like Bronze Age Hungarian. Roughly we would need 1 IE invader to 3-4 locals to make Cypriots look like Greek islanders.

BR1 Hungary
Population
S-Indian	-
Baloch	3.15
Caucasian	14.73
NE-Euro	46.18
SE-Asian	0.2
Siberian	-
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	0.18
American	-
Beringian	-
Mediterranean	31.73
SW-Asian	3.33
San	-
E-African	-
Pygmy	-
W-African	0.48

Greek Islanders as always are the most similar of South Italians and Sicilians, but with some differences: we score 6 point less of Caucasian, 3/4 point more of North East European and 1/2 point less of SW Asian. I really like to see Asia Minor Greeks, Egyptian Greeks and Antiochian Greeks' results, they mostly live in mainland Greece nowadays afaik.
Regarding the slight differences of South Italians and Sicilians on average, it has to do with the samples selected and the calculator, the Italian website Ethnopedia use Eutest and the slight difference is 1 point more of Middle East for Sicilians and one point more of East Med for South Italians on average, and 0.5/0.7 point of more African for Sicilians.

 

[Boreas]

Joey D

# Population (source) Distance
1 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 5.34
2 ashkenazi (harappa) 6.68
3 sephardic-jew (behar) 9.31
4 morocco-jew (behar) 12.1
5 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 12.89
6 tuscan (1000genomes) 13.74
7 tuscan (hgdp) 14.33
8 tuscan (hapmap) 14.98
9 cypriot (behar) 15.52
10 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 17.03

New Englander

# Population (source) Distance
1 tuscan (1000genomes) 7.36
2 tuscan (hgdp) 7.73
3 tuscan (hapmap) 8.33
4 ashkenazi (harappa) 8.52
5 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 10.95
6 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 12.4
7 romanian-a (behar) 12.79
8 italian (hgdp) 14.03
9 sephardic-jew (behar) 17.35
10 morocco-jew (behar) 17.79

clarbg

# Population (source) Distance
1 utahn-white (1000genomes) 2.93
2 british (1000genomes) 3.78
3 utahn-white (hapmap) 4.8
4 n-european (xing) 5.26
5 orcadian (hgdp) 6.38
6 french (hgdp) 7.77
7 hungarian (behar) 12.33
8 slovenian (xing) 13.54
9 ukranian (yunusbayev) 18.91
10 spaniard (behar) 19.52

Azzurro

1 ashkenazi @ 6.947908
2 ashkenazy-jew @ 7.312261
3 tuscan @ 9.810319
4 tuscan @ 10.379184
5 tuscan @ 10.957203
6 morocco-jew @ 11.819502
7 sephardic-jew @ 12.251520
8 italian @ 18.351109
9 turk-aydin @ 20.673489
10 bulgarian @ 20.816389

Sile


# Population (source) Distance
1 italian (hgdp) 6.28
2 tuscan (hapmap) 10.65
3 romanian-a (behar) 10.83
4 tuscan (hgdp) 11
5 tuscan (1000genomes) 11.47
6 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 12.37
7 spaniard (behar) 13.8
8 french (hgdp) 14.03
9 spaniard (1000genomes) 14.94
10 hungarian (behar) 17.96

Northener

Using 1 population approximation:
1 n-european @ 3.403369
2 utahn-white @ 4.032901
3 utahn-white @ 6.361325
4 british @ 7.447022
5 orcadian @ 7.508000
6 slovenian @ 11.829170
7 hungarian @ 11.970489
8 ukranian @ 13.656387
9 french @ 15.719910
10 belorussian @ 16.431705



This is mine

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	turk-aydin (hodoglugil)	11.94
2	ashkenazi (harappa)	12.13
3	ashkenazy-jew (behar)	13.66
4	tuscan (1000genomes)	15.12
5	bulgarian (yunusbayev)	15.2
6	tuscan (hgdp)	15.46
7	romanian-a (behar)	15.65
8	tuscan (hapmap)	15.99
9	nogai (yunusbayev)	18.83
10	sephardic-jew (behar)	19.68

The closest population is close as 2 digits

By the way, what is the connection with Italian and Ashkenazy-Jews. They are seeing even in my results. Are they really Ashkenazy or assimilated Sephardi Jews who were assimlated in North America or West Europe Ashkenazy community?

 

[Pax Augusta]

The closest population is close as 2 digits

Indeed, you're very distant from any Turkish sample on Harappa, and Harappa has many Tuskish samples, at least 6.

By the way, what is the connection with Italian and Ashkenazy-Jews. They are seeing even in my results. Are they really Ashkenazy or assimilated Sephardi Jews who were assimlated in North America or West Europe Ashkenazy community?

I think it's more a generic connection that Ashkenazy Jews have with the south-eastern European cluster. Italians range from the southern-western cluster (north-western Italians who tend to be closer to Iberians and southern French) to the southeastern European cluster (with South Italians and Sicilians who tend to be intermediate between Greek mainlanders and Greek Islanders, tendentially closer to the latter but more north-western shifted than them).

Fwiw, Copper Age Otzi had the same amount of SWAsian as modern Tuscans (about 9-10%, I think). Now, obviously there were genetic changes after that, but it's unlikely, in my opinion, that it was totally wiped out and then totally replaced.

Modern Tuscans have slightly less SW Asian, around 7-8%. Is there any Copper Age Otzi GedMatch id?

 

[Hauteville]

I think it's more a generic connection that Ashkenazy Jews have with the south-eastern European cluster. Italians range from the southern-western cluster (north-western Italians who tend to be closer to Iberians and southern French) to the southeastern European cluster (with South Italians and Sicilians who tend to be intermediate between Greek mainlanders and Greek Islanders, tendentially closer to the latter but more north-western shifted than them).

A very good explanation of Italian genetic.

 

[Angela]

Sorry, I don't know; I don't really work much with these calculators.

So, the SW Asian would be about 5% for the north, 7-8% for Tuscans, and 11-14% in the south? The southern scores are similar to Greek Islanders?

Well, from what LeBrok posted above the original Anatolian farmers had 14%, then it went down, but was still 10 and higher, yes?How much did Otzi and Remedello have precisely?

Without ancient dna it's impossible, imo, to know exactly what happened. Admixture with Hungarian Bronze Age would have brought it down again, but how many of them actually crossed the Alps? Were they fewer in number by the time they reached the south? What were they like genetically by the time they got here? Then, what effect did a migration from Anatolia/Aegean have? Clearly, the Gaulish migrations in the north had an effect. What about the Greeks of the first millennium B.C.? What were those Greeks like, anyway? Were they more like Islanders or even Cypriots? After all, that was before the Slavic migrations.

It's very frustrating that there is ancient Dna from so many places and virtually nothing from relevant periods in Italy.

 

[Northener]

Less Caucasian also means more NE European it seems.

I guess North-Dutch isn't NE Europe but NW Europe......

 

[LeBrok]

Sorry, I don't know; I don't really work much with these calculators.

So, the SW Asian would be about 5% for the north, 7-8% for Tuscans, and 11-14% in the south? The southern scores are similar to Greek Islanders?

Well, from what LeBrok posted above the original Anatolian farmers had 14%, then it went down, but was still 10 and higher, yes?How much did Otzi and Remedello have precisely?
.

Unfortunately I'm unable to find kit numbers for these guys in GedMatch, or they are not in calculator.

 

[LeBrok]

Greek Islanders as always are the most similar of South Italians and Sicilians, but with some differences: we score 6 point less of Caucasian, 3/4 point more of North East European and 1/2 point less of SW Asian. I really like to see Asia Minor Greeks, Egyptian Greeks and Antiochian Greeks' results, they mostly live in mainland Greece nowadays afaik.

It would be nice to have samples from different parts of mainland, Sparta, Athens and Thessaloniki. Of course from surrounding villagers and not the cities.

 

[LeBrok]

Joey D

This is mine

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	turk-aydin (hodoglugil)	11.94
2	ashkenazi (harappa)	12.13
3	ashkenazy-jew (behar)	13.66
4	tuscan (1000genomes)	15.12
5	bulgarian (yunusbayev)	15.2
6	tuscan (hgdp)	15.46
7	romanian-a (behar)	15.65
8	tuscan (hapmap)	15.99
9	nogai (yunusbayev)	18.83
10	sephardic-jew (behar)	19.68

The closest population is close as 2 digits

By the way, what is the connection with Italian and Ashkenazy-Jews. They are seeing even in my results. Are they really Ashkenazy or assimilated Sephardi Jews who were assimlated in North America or West Europe Ashkenazy community?

For a mixed origin guy like you this doesn't work. By means of whole genome or pca distances you will plot close to these guys but you are quite different.

# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Ashkenazy	1	5	34	19	0	0	1	0	0	0	24	14	0	1	0	0
Boreas	3	11	29	22		6	3	0	0	0	19	7	0		0
turk-aydin	1	12	38	14	0	6	4	0	0	1	14	9	0	0	0	0

 

[LeBrok]

I think it's more a generic connection that Ashkenazy Jews have with the south-eastern European cluster. Italians range from the southern-western cluster (north-western Italians who tend to be closer to Iberians and southern French) to the southeastern European cluster (with South Italians and Sicilians who tend to be intermediate between Greek mainlanders and Greek Islanders, tendentially closer to the latter but more north-western shifted than them).

By the way, what is the connection with Italian and Ashkenazy-Jews. They are seeing even in my results. Are they really Ashkenazy or assimilated Sephardi Jews who were assimlated in North America or West Europe Ashkenazy community?

Greek Islanders are the closest match for Ashkenazi of all populations. Ashkenazi have somewhat more NE Euro, obviously from their history in central Europe, otherwise it is almost a perfect fit. Although, they had spent some time in Southern Europe and picked up similarities, big part of this "perfect" fit is accidental. What I mean is that they didn't "grew up" on Greek islands together to mix so much to be identical. Somehow their history of traveling around Europe and picking up various European genetics made them look like Greek Islanders. As we know Greek Islanders have lots of ancient farmer genetics, share a lot of North Near Eastern genetics, and also North European/Steppe genetics. They both share similar amount of various admixtures coming from same ancient populations, but collected through very different ethnic history, different journey through time.
I think they started as ethnic group looking more like Palestiniens. Once in Europe, they have mixed with locals from South Europe and started to look more like today's Sephardic Jews. And Sephardic genetically look more like Cypriots. This is how proto-Ashkenazi looked 2,000 years ago living in Rome or Greece, I guess.
Later, after picking up North European genes, when living in Germany, Poland or Ukraine they became Ashkenazi as we know them today. As I said, it is an accident that they look like Greek Islanders, especially when looked through rough genetic comparisons of admixtures and pca distances.

# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Greek, Islands, East	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	0	0
Ashkenazy	1	5	34	19	0	0	1	0	0	0	24	14	0	1	0	0
sephardic-jew	1%	7%	36%	9%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	26%	18%	0%	1%	0%	0%
palestinian	1%	7%	39%	1%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	12%	31%	0%	5%	0%	2%

 

[Sile]

Unfortunately I'm unable to find kit numbers for these guys in GedMatch, or they are not in calculator.

below is the 9000 year old T1 Ydna ancient sample from Jordan who is stated to have origins from NE-Anatolia

HarappaWorld Oracle results:

23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

Kit M897077

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Mediterranean	47.24
2	Caucasian	37.64
3	SW-Asian	14
4	NE-Euro	0.86
5	W-African	0.27

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	morocco-jew (behar)	21.8
2	sephardic-jew (behar)	22.91
3	sardinian (hgdp)	23.29
4	ashkenazy-jew (behar)	26.36
5	tuscan (1000genomes)	27.49
6	tuscan (hapmap)	27.57
7	tuscan (hgdp)	27.61
8	ashkenazi (harappa)	28.14
9	cypriot (behar)	29.46
10	italian (hgdp)	31.89
11	lebanese (behar)	35.02
12	turk-aydin (hodoglugil)	36.43
13	egypt (henn2012)	36.59
14	morocco-n (henn2012)	36.93
15	lebanese-christian (haber)	37.06
16	lebanese-muslim (haber)	37.07
17	jordanian (behar)	37.11
18	samaritian (behar)	37.14
19	palestinian (hgdp)	37.74
20	lebanese-druze (haber)	37.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#		Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
1		65.3%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	34.7%	druze (hgdp)	@	9.47
2		63%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	37%	samaritian (behar)	@	10.08
3		63.1%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	36.9%	lebanese-christian (haber)	@	10.39
4		57%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	43%	cypriot (behar)	@	10.6
5		63.8%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	36.2%	lebanese-druze (haber)	@	10.7
6		66.6%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	33.4%	georgia-jew (behar)	@	11.68
7		67%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	33%	azerbaijan-jew (behar)	@	11.7
8		66.5%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	33.5%	iraq-jew (behar)	@	11.73
9		63.7%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	36.3%	lebanese-muslim (haber)	@	11.86
10		67.6%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	32.4%	iranian-jew (behar)	@	12.03
11		67.3%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	32.7%	assyrian (harappa)	@	12.12
12		62.5%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	37.5%	lebanese (behar)	@	12.49
13		68%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	32%	iraqi-mandaean (harappa)	@	12.5
14		64.5%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	35.5%	palestinian (hgdp)	@	12.63
15		68.2%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	31.8%	armenian (behar)	@	12.64
16		64.2%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	35.8%	jordanian (behar)	@	12.86
17		65.1%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	34.9%	syrian (behar)	@	13.01
18		50.6%	sephardic-jew (behar)	+	49.4%	sardinian (hgdp)	@	13.24
19		74.3%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	25.7%	georgian (behar)	@	13.31
20		65.5%	sardinian (hgdp)	+	34.5%	palestinian (harappa)	@	13.31

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% cypriot +50% sardinian @ 12.105780


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% cypriot +25% sardinian +25% sardinian @ 12.105780


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 cypriot + cypriot + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.105780
2 cypriot + samaritian + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.127272
3 druze + sardinian + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.393720
4 druze + morocco-jew + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.457637
5 druze + sardinian + sardinian + sephardic-jew @ 12.614016
6 cypriot + lebanese-christian + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.629835
7 cypriot + druze + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.725721
8 samaritian + sardinian + sardinian + sephardic-jew @ 12.827868
9 cypriot + sardinian + sardinian + sephardic-jew @ 12.941006
10 cypriot + lebanese-druze + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.941720
11 morocco-jew + samaritian + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.987662
12 cypriot + morocco-jew + sardinian + sardinian @ 12.997843
13 lebanese-christian + sardinian + sardinian + sephardic-jew @ 13.105631
14 lebanese-christian + morocco-jew + sardinian + sardinian @ 13.151128
15 lebanese-druze + sardinian + sardinian + sephardic-jew @ 13.332189
16 lebanese-druze + morocco-jew + sardinian + sardinian @ 13.340966
17 lebanese-christian + samaritian + sardinian + sardinian @ 13.348898
18 druze + samaritian + sardinian + sardinian @ 13.368311
19 cypriot + lebanese-muslim + sardinian + sardinian @ 13.419899
20 cypriot + lebanese + sardinian + sardinian @ 13.447776



"His migration into Europe or affinity" below

puntDNAL K12 Ancient Oracle results:

puntDNAL K12 Ancient Oracle

Kit M897077

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Anatolian_NF	64.54
2	Near_East	17.25
3	Caucasus_HG	9.06
4	European_HG	8.78
5	Sub-Saharan	0.31
6	Oceanian	0.06

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Starcevo_MN_I0174	4.44
2	LBK_EN_I0054	5.52
3	Stuttgart_SG	5.92
4	Iberia_EN_I0412	10.18
5	Hungary_EN_I0495	10.81
6	Iceman_MN_SG	12.2
7	Hungary_CA_I1497	14.59
8	Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489	16.93
9	Epserstedt_MN_I0172	18.76
10	Baalberge_MN_I0560	21.81
11	Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300	21.82
12	Iberia_M_ I0406	23.35
13	Anatolian Neolithic_I0746	38.11
14	Anatolian Neolithic_I0745	38.91
15	Hungary_BA_I1502	43.39
16	Vatya_SG_RISE479	43.58
17	Alberstedt_LN_I0118	45.34
18	Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97	46.96
19	Halberstadt_LBA_I0099	47.79
20	Unetice_EBA_I0117	48.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#		Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
1		90.9%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	9.1%	Anatolian Neolithic_I0745	@	2.11
2		90.7%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	9.3%	Anatolian Neolithic_I0746	@	2.11
3		70%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	30%	Stuttgart_SG	@	4.03
4		73.6%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	26.4%	LBK_EN_I0054	@	4.25
5		89.9%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	10.1%	Iberia_EN_I0412	@	4.32
6		98.8%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	1.2%	Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489	@	4.43
7		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	LaBrana	@	4.44
8		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Motala12	@	4.44
9		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Loschbour_SG	@	4.44
10		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Karelia_HG_I0061	@	4.44
11		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Iberia_Mesolithic_I0585	@	4.44
12		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Hungary_HG_I1507	@	4.44
13		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Bichon	@	4.44
14		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Samara_HG_I0124	@	4.44
15		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Samara_Eneolithic_I0433	@	4.44
16		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Afanasievo_SG_RISE511	@	4.44
17		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Sintashta_MBA_RISE395	@	4.44
18		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386	@	4.44
19		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00	@	4.44
20		100%	Starcevo_MN_I0174	+	0%	Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549	@	4.44

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Stuttgart_SG +50% Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.449605


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Stuttgart_SG +25% Starcevo_MN_I0174 +25% Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.449605


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Stuttgart_SG + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.272701
2 Stuttgart_SG + Stuttgart_SG + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.449605
3 Stuttgart_SG + LBK_EN_I0054 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.494658
4 LBK_EN_I0054 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.496826
5 LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.641380
6 Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.702582
7 Iberia_EN_I0412 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 4.816988
8 Stuttgart_SG + LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.044842
9 Stuttgart_SG + Stuttgart_SG + LBK_EN_I0054 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.066800
10 LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.114842
11 Stuttgart_SG + Stuttgart_SG + Stuttgart_SG + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.179961
12 Iberia_EN_I0412 + LBK_EN_I0054 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.282451
13 Iberia_EN_I0412 + Stuttgart_SG + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.285719
14 Iceman_MN_SG + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.658989
15 Hungary_EN_I0495 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.691091
16 Stuttgart_SG + LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 @ 5.826201
17 LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 @ 5.834327
18 Hungary_EN_I0495 + Stuttgart_SG + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.878696
19 Stuttgart_SG + Stuttgart_SG + LBK_EN_I0054 + LBK_EN_I0054 @ 5.898808
20 Hungary_EN_I0495 + LBK_EN_I0054 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 + Starcevo_MN_I0174 @ 5.949750


or maybe one prefers his analysis from russian scholars

[h=2]Near East Neolithic K13 4-Ancestors Oracle[/h] This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

gedrosia K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC	70.65
2	CHG_EEF	18.32
3	NATUFIAN	7.07
4	IRAN_NEOLITHIC	2.93

Finished reading population data. 145 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Stuttgart @ 14.097481
2 Europe_EN @ 21.053988
3 Europe_MNChL @ 24.525970
4 Anatolia_N @ 29.972769
5 Anatolia_ChL @ 35.950886
6 Sardinian @ 36.162647
7 Sicilian @ 53.648846
8 Albanian @ 54.318569
9 Armenia_ChL @ 54.480675
10 Greek @ 55.342281
11 Jew_Moroccan @ 55.618534
12 Jew_Libyan @ 56.403713
13 Italian_South @ 56.427704
14 Cypriot @ 56.513802
15 Jew_Tunisian @ 56.605286
16 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 57.473385
17 Bulgarian @ 58.344040
18 Levant_N @ 58.826546
19 Romanian @ 61.076805
20 Turkish @ 61.601536

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Anatolia_N +50% Sardinian @ 6.029018


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Anatolia_N +25% Italian_South +25% Stuttgart @ 4.967160


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Anatolia_N + Stuttgart + Stuttgart + Stuttgart @ 4.389101
2 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Italian_South + Stuttgart @ 4.967160
3 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Sardinian + Stuttgart @ 4.990949
4 Albanian + Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Stuttgart @ 5.371789
5 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Sicilian + Stuttgart @ 5.390258
6 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Greek + Stuttgart @ 5.596020
7 Anatolia_N + Europe_EN + Sardinian + Stuttgart @ 5.647186
8 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Jew_Ashkenazi + Stuttgart @ 5.831095
9 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Sardinian + Sardinian @ 6.029018
10 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Bulgarian + Stuttgart @ 6.497656
11 Europe_EN + Europe_EN + Stuttgart + Stuttgart @ 6.638557
12 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Jew_Moroccan + Stuttgart @ 6.773542
13 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Romanian + Stuttgart @ 6.827176
14 Anatolia_N + Europe_EN + Italian_South + Stuttgart @ 7.032627
15 Anatolia_N + Europe_EN + Sicilian + Stuttgart @ 7.050203
16 Anatolia_N + Europe_EN + Stuttgart + Stuttgart @ 7.135321
17 Europe_EN + Stuttgart + Stuttgart + Stuttgart @ 7.220714
18 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Cypriot + Stuttgart @ 7.250607
19 Anatolia_N + Anatolia_N + Jew_Tunisian + Stuttgart @ 7.254900
20 Albanian + Anatolia_N + Europe_EN + Stuttgart @ 7.343131

 

[LeBrok]

below is the 9000 year old T1 Ydna ancient sample from Jordan who is stated to have origins from NE-Anatolia

HarappaWorld Oracle results:

23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

Kit M897077

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Mediterranean	47.24
2	Caucasian	37.64
3	SW-Asian	14
4	NE-Euro	0.86
5	W-African	0.27

This one is from Barcin, West Turkey, not Jordan.

 

[Sile]

This one is from Barcin, West Turkey, not Jordan.

this is what I got ..............is what I got wrong?...not by chart below

Isn't I0707 the T1a ( ydna ) jordanian sample


Edit - you could be right as

Ain Ghazal T
ID I1707 AG83_5
Y DNA T1-PF5610 (xT1a1-Z526, T1a1a-CTS9163, T1a1a-CTS2607, T1a2-S11611, T1a2-Y6031, T1a2a1-P322, T1a3a-Y9189)
Population Neolithic Farmers
Language -
Culture Late Middle PPNB
Date (YBP) 9573 ± 39
House / Location Ain Ghazal
mtDNA R0a
Eye Color: Green or Hazel
Hair Color: Brown
Skin Pigmentation Light
ABO Blood Group Likely O or B

 

[LeBrok]

@ Joey D, your best match is Greek East-Islander. You have a tiny bit more LN farmer that lowers SW Asian and raises Med, I would say. Like your ancestors come from Ancient Greece (before Slavic invasion) who survived in Sicilian village secluded and not mixing since. Or just coincidental mixing of genetics made you look like East Greek islander.

# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Joey D		9	38	15				1			25	11		1		1
Greek, East	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	-	0
Sicily	0	9	32	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	12	0	1	0	0
Ashkenazy	1	5	34	19	0	0	1	0	0	0	24	14	0	1	0	0

 

[Sile]

@ Joey D, your best match is Greek East-Islander. You have a tiny bit more LN farmer that lowers SW Asian and raises Med, I would say. Like your ancestors come from Ancient Greece (before Slavic invasion) who survived in Sicilian village secluded and not mixing since. Or just coincidental mixing of genetics made you look like East Greek islander.

# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Joey D		9	38	15				1			25	11		1		1
Greek, East	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	-	0
Sicily	0	9	32	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	12	0	1	0	0
Ashkenazy	1	5	34	19	0	0	1	0	0	0	24	14	0	1	0	0

some more from gedmatch ..............I will see on getting more if you are interested

M825671 I1293 Iran Mesolithic [9100-8600 BC] HV2 J2a-M410>CTS1085
M595455 I1670 Iran Chalcolithic [4839-4617 BC] U3a'c -
M902476 I1662 Iran Chalcolithic [4831-4612 BC] K1a12a J2a-M410>PF5008
M155294 I1674 Iran Chalcolithic [3972-3800 BC] I1c G1-M342>GG372
M873184 I1665 Iran Chalcolithic [3956-3796 BC] U7a -
M381564 F38 Iran EIA [971-832 BC] N1a3a R1b-Z2103>L584>Y23838
T637158 I1955 Iran Late Medieval [1430–1485 AD] U1a1 -

M417230 I1407 Armenia Chalcolithic [4350-3700 BC] H L1a-M27
M133098 I1409 Armenia Chalcolithic [4229-3985 BC] U4a -
M162111 I1632 Armenia Chalcolithic [4230-4000 BC] K1a8 L1a-M27
M734029 I1634 Armenia Chalcolithic [4330-4060 BC] H2a1 L1a-M27
M731608 I1633 Armenia EBA [2619-2410 BC] H1u -
M340653 I1635 Armenia EBA [2619-2465 BC] X2f R1b-M343>L389>V1636
M487536 RISE413 Armenia MBA [1906-1698 BC] T2c1f R1b-M343>L389>P297
M124777 RISE416 Armenia MBA [1643-1445 BC] K1a17a E-M84
M575241 RISE423 Armenia MBA [1402-1211 BC] T2a E-M84>CTS1096 (Y5412-, Y14899-, PF6751-)
M578721 RISE408 Armenia LBA [1209-1009 BC] I5c J2b-M102>L283>CTS3681
M263493 RISE412 Armenia LBA [1193-945 BC] U4c1a -
M062682 RISE396 Armenia LBA [1192-937 BC] H6b -
M497255 RISE397 Armenia LBA [1048-855 BC] T1a2 R1b-Z2103>Z2106>BY3296

M471006 I1705 Jordan EBA [2198-1966 BC] H14a J1-P58>Z2324
M682666 I1730 Jordan EBA [2489-2299 BC] R0a1a J2b-M205>PF7331

M987765 Tep001 Anatolia Early Neolithic [7014 BC] K1a n/a
M830273 Tep003 Anatolia Early Neolithic [7174 BC] N1b1a G2a-P287>P15>PF3159
M300627 Kum4 Anatolia EBA [3500–2800 BC] n/a -

M733797 RISE109 Unetice EBA Poland [1954-1772 BC] U4 -
M453254 RISE154 Unetice EBA Poland [1925-1765 BC] K1a4a1 -
M239638 RISE586 Unetice EBA Czech Republic [?] K1b1a -
M484113 RISE139 Unetice Poland [2135-1923 BC] U2e1f1 n/a
M069028 RISE145 Unetice Poland [2188-1958 BC] H6a1b -

M483824 RISE598 Lithuania LBA [908-485 BC] H2a2 R1a-L62>M417

M669778 RISE1 Corded Ware Poland [2865-2578 BC] K1b1a1 R1b-M343>L754
M191719 RISE431 Corded Ware Proto-Unetice Poland [2286-2048 BC] T2e R1a-M417

M631469 RISE349 Hungary MBA [2034-1748 BC] T2b3 -
M375165 RISE373 Maros Hungary [1886-1696 BC] K1a2a -
M974598 RISE374 Maros Hungary [1866-1619 BC] T2 G2a-P287>P15>PF3177

M130094 RISE61 Battle Axe Denmark [2650-2300 BC] J1c4 R1a-M417>Z284>CTS8401

M370663 I0419 Potapovka [2200-1900 BC] U2e1h R1a-M417>Z93
M630274 I0432 Poltavka outlier [2925-2536 BC] U5a1c R1a-M417>Z94

M214301 RISE595 Montenegro LBA [?] U5a2 -
M836655 RISE596 Montenegro IA [?] X1'2'3 -

M030961 K8 Bulgaria IA [450-400 BC] n/a -
M212372 P192-1 Bulgaria IA [800-500 BC] U3b E-M78>Z1919
M540478 T2G2 Bulgaria IA [850-700 BC] HV(16311) -
M777769 V2 Bulgaria LBA [1500-1100 BC] n/a -

 

[LeBrok]

Good call. I've seen some formal stats for Italians that show the best "mixing" population is indeed Bronze Age Hungarian. (If I mis-remembered that, Fire-Haired can correct it.)

It will be interesting to figure out if these BA Hungarian like (possibly from SW Yanaya/Cucuteni mix, because they completely lack steppe Baloch admixture), were the Italo-Celtic stock or not? We see similar genetic effect, of these BA Hungarian like, on BA Spain.
Interestingly, we can explain changes in Greek genetics using this BA Hungarian, but there is one caveat. If these BA people from North Balkans spoke Italo-Celtic, how could they speak also such archaic IE like Greek? This probably make BA Anatolian rout for BA Greeks more likely. Well, could have been both, but at the end the Anatolian IE gave Greeks their language.

This Northern Anatolian from Early BA comes handy, and pretty good candidate of IE Greek invasion.

Anatolia EBA 3500-2800	M300627 Kum4
Population
S-Indian	-
Baloch	12.04
Caucasian	15.06
NE-Euro	41.42
SE-Asian	-
Siberian	-
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	-
American	4.53
Beringian	-
Mediterranean	13.9
SW-Asian	11.92
San	0.49
E-African	-
Pygmy	0.63
W-African	-

 

[LeBrok]

some more from gedmatch ..............I will see on getting more if you are interested

All you can get. Thanks Sile.

 

[Boreas]

Now I added Sardinians and Turks from Istanbul. Sardinians look like true EEF with a bit of Steppe in them. One surprise is that they don't carry any Baloch. Sardinia didn't go through Bronze age changes rest of Italy did.
Istanbul's Med is low, which is very surprising for part of Turkey by Mediteranean sea, SW low too. Very high Caucasian and Baloch points to very strong genetic push from Armenia/Georgia region into whole Anatolia, some time ago. This could have pushed previous occupants of Anatolia into Balkans/ Italy, possibly by means of the sea?


Europeans # of samples S-Indian Baloch Caucasian NE-Euro SE-Asian Siberian NE-Asian Papuan American Beringian Mediterranean SW-Asian San E-African Pygmy W-African
Poland LeBrok 1 7 10 57 1 1 0 0 0 0 22 1 0 0 0 0
Netherlands Northerner 0 9 6 55 0 0 0 1 0 0 29 0 0 0 0 0
Albania Dibran 0 5 30 27 0 0 0 0 0 0 30 8 0 0 0 0
Italy, NE 7 0 7 20 34 0 0 0 0 0 0 31 6 0 0 0 0
Italy, NW 5 0 6 20 33 0 0 0 0 0 0 34 6 0 0 0 0
Italy, Tuscany 4 0 7 25 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 32 8 0 0 0 0
Italy, South 5 0 8 32 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 13 0 1 0 0
Sicily 5 0 9 32 18 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 12 0 1 0 0
Sardinia 2 0 0 23 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 48 11 0 0 0 0
Ashkenazy ? 1 7 39 16 0 1 0 0 0 0 24 15 0 1 0 0
turk-istanbul ? 1 16 45 11 1 3 3 0 0 1 11 9 0 0




0 0

Everybody says Turks are mixed people but that guy from Istanbul is more pure then rest of Italian except Sardinians

He has 5.56 Siberian though. Likely some Balkan/Slav admixture as well I think.

Good guess, my grandparents from father side are from Bulgaria.

Indeed, you're very distant from any Turkish sample on Harappa, and Harappa has many Tuskish samples, at least 6.

I means that I am wierd combination

I think it's more a generic connection that Ashkenazy Jews have with the south-eastern European cluster. Italians range from the southern-western cluster (north-western Italians who tend to be closer to Iberians and southern French) to the southeastern European cluster (with South Italians and Sicilians who tend to be intermediate between Greek mainlanders and Greek Islanders, tendentially closer to the latter but more north-western shifted than them).

When you think Greek colonies in South Italia, it makes sense (Magna Graciea) However all Sicilain results say that they are more close-2 times to Askenazy Jews then Italians.


I could easily understand, if in the all Italian's results first 5-10 population groups were again from Italia and after that Askhenazy Jews samples were as number 11-13 in South Italians results and Spanish-French samples were at 12-15 in North Italian results.


Italian range is very much larger then other Europe nations. Actually the largest one.

Whatever, it is good to see people who are as far as me to their average national statistics.

For a mixed origin guy like you this doesn't work. By means of whole genome or pca distances you will plot close to these guys but you are quite different.

Yes, in generaly Turks are mix but there is some connection between other Turkish samples

Boreas 3% 11% 29% 22% 0% 6% 3% 0% 0% 0% 19% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0%


turk-aydin 1% 12% 38% 14% 0% 6% 4% 0% 0% 1% 14% 9% 0% 0% 0% 0%
turk-istanbul 1% 16% 45% 11% 1% 3% 3% 0% 0% 1% 11% 9% 0% 0% 0% 0%
turk 1% 16% 47% 9% 0% 4% 2% 0% 1% 1% 10% 10% 0% 0% 0% 0%
turk-kayseri 1% 15% 45% 8% 1% 4% 2% 0% 0% 1% 11% 10% 0% 0% 0% 0%
turkish 2% 17% 40% 9% 1% 4% 2% 1% 1% 1% 11% 11% 1% 1% 0% 0%


There are high similarity between other Turks just Aydın sample (from West Turkey) is a bit close to me. Clear Caucausian genetic structure. My Anatolian/Causcasian admix is 10-15% below then others and NE-Europe - Med admix are clearly higher.


I am like a missing link between Anatolian Turks and Balkan People :grin:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And this is my table, which shows mixed nations who have less then 30% in all groups.(as me)


In Americans, Mexican and Colombian; in Old World, Western Central Asian and East Iranic.


kazakh harappa 2% 10% 8% 14% 0% 29% 29% 0% 2% 2% 4% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
uzbek behar 5% 18% 17% 14% 0% 17% 20% 0% 1% 2% 4% 2% 0% 0% 0% 0%
turkmen yunusbayev 5% 26% 30% 10% 1% 7% 8% 0% 1% 1% 4% 7% 0% 0% 0% 0%
hazara harappa 7% 18% 13% 8% 2% 15% 25% 1% 1% 3% 4% 2% 0% 0% 0% 0%
parsi harappa 16% 28% 28% 5% 1% 1% 0% 0% 1% 2% 4% 12% 1% 1% 0% 0%
tajik harappa 6% 19% 16% 15% 0% 12% 20% 1% 2% 3% 3% 1% 1% 0% 0% 0%
hazara hgdp 6% 20% 13% 9% 1% 18% 28% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 0% 0% 0% 0%