GEDMatch HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

[LeBrok]

Very EASY.


First of all like I wrote earlier we are using only 1 calculator. Maybe other calculators would be better and a show us a better and different picture.


You don't get it, man. What is wrong with you? You think like a child. You are blinded by your willingness to be somebody else. Be proud of you are and simply don't try to steal history of other people.

Oh, you don't like the calculator, lol, tough lack. The world is not what you like it to be. In the real world you learn how it works from the data.
Now we know that you don't have a clue and don't have an explanation to my question. You have no idea what are the admixtures here, and you confusing them with Lazaridis ones.
No problem then for you to imagine your perfect fantasy world.
Then you went straight to insults. Not nice.

 

[Goga]

Oh, you don't like the calculator, lol, tough lack. The world is not what you like it to be. In the real world you learn how it works from the data.
Now we know that you don't have a clue and don't have an explanation to my question. You have no idea what are the admixtures here, and you confusing them with Lazaridis ones.
No problem then for you to imagine your perfect fantasy world.
Then you went straight to insults. Not nice.

I did not insult you. You gave me an infraction for nothing. Like always, how cute.

I gave a correct answer to your question and now you can't counter it.


My answer was that Indo-Europeans from Maykop who Indo-Europized the Yamnaya Horizon were not CHG folks, but they came originally from Leyla Tepe and were therefore native Iranid people full of Gedrosia/Baloch/Hindu Kush auDNA. R1b was not related to CHG, but to the Iranian Plateau.
The same people who came from Leyla Tepe, brought also civilization in the Mesopotamia and Egypt. Those folks were the true civilization builders.


According to YOU Sindhi are more CHG than Abhkasians who are actually native to Northern Caucasus. Because Sindhi from India have more Baloch auDNA, while Abhkasian from Northern Caucasus have only 9.68 % Baloch and 69.15 !!! Caucasian. I mean, really?

Abhkasian : Caucasian = 69.15 vs. Baloch = 9.68 %
Sindhi : Caucasian = 9.68 % vs. Baloch 46.18 %


And now you're talking about the lala lulaby worlds.



When my people know that they are on the right side and when we are speaking the truth we never give up. We are fighting for thousands of years and we never give up. You should have studied our history and learned something from it.
As long as I'm on the right side and speaking in accordance with science, the truth and have enough knowledge about the topic, I will NEVER give up and will fight the lies on internet.

 

[Tomenable]

LeBrok, Goga:

Iran Neolithic samples are on Gedmatch as well:

http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?topic=8462.0

http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html

From the first link (forum molgen):

I1290-IranN - Gedmatch kit M967114
I1671-IranLN - Gedmatch kit M937770

=====================

When using HarappaWorld calculator:

Kit M967114 (Iran Neolithic):

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Baloch	62.71
2	Caucasian	24.97
3	S-Indian	6.13
4	SW-Asian	3.88
5	W-African	1.78
6	Papuan	0.35
7	San	0.18

Kit M937770 (Iran Late Neolithic):

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Baloch	56.25
2	Caucasian	32.91
3	SW-Asian	8
4	S-Indian	2.64
5	Pygmy	0.21

 

[LeBrok]

HarappaWorld:
Comparing Goga (Pure Aryan) with Ancient Iranian (supposed source of IEs)

Admixture:	Zoran:	Arya:	Goga:	Iranian Neolithic	IrnCopperAge	Afansevo Rise 509
Caucasian	40,79	40,88	40,84	24.97	49.91	2.03
Baloch	27,95	29,33	27,86	62.71	37,82	29.56
SW-Asian	13,29	14,96	13,9	3.88	10.88	-
NE-Euro	4,3	4,75	3,92	0	-	63.24
Mediterranean	8,05	4,17	8,27	0	-	1.89
S-Indian	2,99	3,71	2,23	6.13	1.05	-
Siberian	0,96	0,22	1,08	0	-	1.64
W-African	-	-	-	1.78	0.33	0.72
SE-Asian	-	0,27	0,57	0	-	-
Beringian	-	0,26	-	0	-	1.45
NE-Asian	-	0,39	-	0	-	-
Papuan	0,28	0,92	0,36	0.35	-	-
American	0,67	-	0,98	0	-	1.40
San	0,63	-	-	0.18	-	-
E-African	0,07	0,14	-	0	-	-
Pygmy	-	-	-	0	-

Listen dude, I'm not 100% like those fellas of Iran Neolithic.

Not even close.
You and Neolithic guy are like from different planets. Your fantazy about purity of "your" race is gone. The hard truth of dynamic and ever changing world is obvious. Lots of mixing and remixing happened since.

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

HarappaWorld:
Comparing Goga (Pure Aryan) with Ancient Iranian (supposed source of IEs)

Admixture:	Zoran:	Arya:	Goga:	Iranian Neolithic	IrnCopperAge	Afansevo Rise 509
Caucasian	40,79	40,88	40,84	24.97	49.91	2.03
Baloch	27,95	29,33	27,86	62.71	37,82	29.56
SW-Asian	13,29	14,96	13,9	3.88	10.88	-
NE-Euro	4,3	4,75	3,92	0	-	63.24
Mediterranean	8,05	4,17	8,27	0	-	1.89
S-Indian	2,99	3,71	2,23	6.13	1.05	-
Siberian	0,96	0,22	1,08	0	-	1.64
W-African	-	-	-	1.78	0.33	0.72
SE-Asian	-	0,27	0,57	0	-	-
Beringian	-	0,26	-	0	-	1.45
NE-Asian	-	0,39	-	0	-	-
Papuan	0,28	0,92	0,36	0.35	-	-
American	0,67	-	0,98	0	-	1.40
San	0,63	-	-	0.18	-	-
E-African	0,07	0,14	-	0	-	-
Pygmy	-	-	-	0	-

Not even close.
You and Neolithic guy are like from different planets. Your fantazy about purity of "your" race is gone. The hard truth of dynamic and ever changing world is obvious. Lots of mixing and remixing happened since.

He's close to Iran Copper Age. There's more continuity almost everywhere that what many would have supposed, although what you said is also true.

People who believe that Afanasevo was Proto-Iranian are delusional.

 

[Tomenable]

Kit M381564 (Iran Iron Age, 971-832 BC):

HarappaWorld - Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	47.6
2	Baloch	29.17
3	SW-Asian	13.43
4	Mediterranean	6.66
5	NE-Euro	3.01
6	W-African	0.11
7	Pygmy	0.03

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Kurd (xing)	4.36
2	Kurd (yunusbayev)	4.4
3	Kurd (harappa)	7.61
4	Iranian (harappa)	8.38
5	Iranian (behar)	9.29

So now we have a lot of Iranians to compare with each other:

Neolithic, Late Neolithic, Copper Age, Iron Age, Medieval and modern Iranians.

Only a Bronze Age Iranian is still missing.

 

[LeBrok]

Kit M381564 (Iran Iron Age, 971-832 BC):

HarappaWorld - Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	47.6
2	Baloch	29.17
3	SW-Asian	13.43
4	Mediterranean	6.66
5	NE-Euro	3.01
6	W-African	0.11
7	Pygmy	0.03

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Kurd (xing)	4.36
2	Kurd (yunusbayev)	4.4
3	Kurd (harappa)	7.61
4	Iranian (harappa)	8.38
5	Iranian (behar)	9.29

So now we have a lot of Iranians to compare with each other:

Neolithic, Late Neolithic, Copper Age, Iron Age, Medieval and modern Iranians.

Only a Bronze Age Iranian is still missing.

Seems like Kurds changed the least in the area from Iron Age, though Iranians drifted quite a bit.

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

There's continuity since the Copper Age. Mediterranean and NE Euro slightly increase in Iron Age. A few samples aren't enough but let's assume that they are represantative.

So:
1) Either the languages are native there (I don't believe that)
2) or some people with mostly Caucasian and some South West Asian admixture brought IE during the Copper Age
3) or some people with Mediterranean (~2/3) and NE Euro (~1/3) admixture brought IE after the Copper Age

Baloch admixture peaks in Brahui people, Baloch etc
Caucasian admixture peaks in Georgians, Abkhasians etc
NE Euro admixture peaks in Finnish, Lithuanians etc
Mediterranean admixture peaks in Sardinians, Basque etc
SW Asian admixture peaks in Saudis, Bedouins etc

Baloch decreases though, so I think it's unlikely that the culture which brought IE had it.

[I personally don't accept kurgan theory at all, though I believe Western 'steppes' were IE]

 

[LeBrok]

HarappaWorld:
Genetic transformation and similarities of Iranians through times.

Admixture:	Goga:	Iranian Medieval	Iranian Iron Age	Iranian Copper Age	Iranian Late Neolithic	Iranian Neolithic	Source of Admixtures
Caucasian	40,84	45.47	47.6	49.91	32.91	24.97	Mostly in CHG
Baloch	27,86	26.89	29.17	37,82	56.25	62.71	Mostly in Iranian Farmer
SW-Asian	13,9	13.13	13.43	10.88	8.00	3.88	Mostly in Natufians
NE-Euro	3,92	7.27	3.01	0	0	0	EHG
Mediterranean	8,27	4.87	6.66	0	0	0	Anatolian EF/20% in WHG
S-Indian	2,23	1.23	0	1.05	2.64	6.13
Siberian	1,08	0.65	0	0	0	0
W-African	0	0.20	0.11	0.33	0	1.78
SE-Asian	0,57	0.57	0	0	0	0
Beringian	0	0.12	0	0	0	0
NE-Asian	0	0	0	0	0	0
Papuan	0,36	0	0.35	0	0	0.35
American	0,98	0	0	0	0	0
San	0	0	0	0	0	0.18
E-African	0	0	0	0	0	0
Pygmy	0	0	0.03	0	0.21	0

 

[Tomenable]

There's continuity since the Copper Age.

If not counting ~15% of European-like admixture after the Copper Age (migration from Bronze Age Steppe?).

Later also some Siberian-East Asian and African after 1400 AD (Timurid invasion added East Asian-Siberian?):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_dynasty

Here is a comparison with use of Dodecad K12b calculator:

http://s17.postimg.org/vj5yem6jz/Iranians.png

^^^
By the way, Arya is of Bakhtiari descent (they are a Lurish tribe from South-Western Iran):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakhtiari_people

 

[Goga]

If not counting ~15% of European-like admixture after the Copper Age (migration from Bronze Age Steppe?).

Later also some Siberian-East Asian and African after 1400 AD (Timurid invasion added East Asian-Siberian?):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_dynasty

Here is a comparison with use of Dodecad K12b calculator:

http://s17.postimg.org/vj5yem6jz/Iranians.png

^^^
By the way, Arya is of Bakhtiari descent (they are a Lurish tribe from South-Western Iran):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakhtiari_people

Thank you for your work man! You did a great job!

As people know I ever said that I'm a direct descent of unevolved prehistoric 10,000 years old Iranian Farmer, lol. Over time people are changing and evolving andmixing with others.

What I said is that Kurds are DIRECT descendants of the Medes. The Medes lived in the Iron Age in Media/Persian/Iran. Kurds and Kurdish language are NATIVE to their homeland.

Era before the Iron Age, the Bronze age was an era of the Medes, Persians, Cimmerians, Alanians, Scythians and other Iranians in Kurdistan.

Bronze Age was also an age when the Scythians from the Steppes migrated into the Media/Kurdistan, the land of the Medes. Those people migrated and settled down in Media/Kurdistan. And by the time when some Scythians arrived they brought Atlantic-Med and Northern Europe componentswith them. I think that most Steppe ancestry in Kurdistan is from the Bronze Age belonged to Steppe people who settled down in Media.


Scythian stelae in Hakkari (Central Kurdistan)

 

[Coriolan]

Goga, Iran Neolithic wasn't the same as modern Iranians just as Europe Neolithic isn't the same as modern Europeans. 50% or more of Iranian's ancestry is from different sources, mostly people related to Anatolia Neolithic. Don't treat them as the same people as modern Iranians or any nearby people(Kurds). Stop with the Iranian-supremacist bull shit. No matter how often your fantasies are proven incorrect you stick to them, it is very annoying. Why do you copy the idea of a superior Aryan race from white supremacist? You're copying from your enemies. Kurds are just people, they're not superior to anyone.

Really, Iranians aren't superior to everyone else? But look at Goga, a fine representative of that proud Aryan race; hasn't genetic data confirmed times and again that his supremacist fantasies were true, er, fantasies - as no sane and intelligent person could have doubted. [emoji624]

Sent from my LG-D855 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

If not counting ~15% of European-like admixture after the Copper Age (migration from Bronze Age Steppe?).

Later also some Siberian-East Asian and African after 1400 AD (Timurid invasion added East Asian-Siberian?):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_dynasty

Here is a comparison with use of Dodecad K12b calculator:

http://s17.postimg.org/vj5yem6jz/Iranians.png

^^^
By the way, Arya is of Bakhtiari descent (they are a Lurish tribe from South-Western Iran):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakhtiari_people

Probably a migration after the Copper Age brought Mediterranean & NE Euro. (SW Asian increases also after the Copper Age too. I didn't see it before). For me, these people could have been IE but not necessarily, since both components are found in non-IE people too and peak in Finnish people and Basques respectively. And we don't know if they were a single mixed group or multiple unrelated groups. SW Asian peaks in Saudis. 'Baloch' peaks in some Brahuis probably who speak Dravidian, then Balochs. Caucasian in Kartvelian speakers.
But there's 'continuity' in the sense that there wasn't any massive population replacement.
The Timurids may have brought extra Siberian, East Asian, minor North / South East Asian? but also NE Euro too imo since it existed in the Steppes.

A sample from Neolithic Hungary I found while googling.

So, SW Asian too existed in Europe.

Neolithic to Copper Age Iran
Caucasian +24,97
SW Asian +3,88

Copper Age to Iron Age Iran
Mediterranean +6,66
NE Euro +3,01
SW Asian +2,55

Sorry if I made any mistakes.

 

[LeBrok]

Probably a migration after the Copper Age brought Mediterranean & NE Euro. (SW Asian increases also after the Copper Age too. I didn't see it before). For me, these people could have been IE but not necessarily, since both components are found in non-IE people too and peak in Finnish people and Basques respectively. And we don't know if they were a single mixed group or multiple unrelated groups. SW Asian peaks in Saudis. 'Baloch' peaks in some Brahuis probably who speak Dravidian, then Balochs. Caucasian in Kartvelian speakers.
But there's 'continuity' in the sense that there wasn't any massive population replacement.
The Timurids may have brought extra Siberian, East Asian, minor North / South East Asian? but also NE Euro too imo since it existed in the Steppes.

A sample from Neolithic Hungary I found while googling.

So, SW Asian too existed in Europe.

Neolithic to Copper Age Iran
Caucasian +24,97
SW Asian +3,88

Copper Age to Iron Age Iran
Mediterranean +6,66
NE Euro +3,01
SW Asian +2,55

Sorry if I made any mistakes.

SW Asian is highest in Natufians, it is their signature admixture.

 

[LeBrok]

I wonder if we should open a new thread for Harappa Admixture and move related posts there.

 

[Goga]

A sample from Neolithic Hungary I found while googling.

I do like Dodacad K12b more. Maciamo is using this calculator for his maps.


So, here are the results of that person from Neolithic Hungary:

 

[LeBrok]

Here are the source/ancient best matching populations of Harappa admixtures:

Admixtures	Iranian Neolithic 10,000 Years Ago	CHG 13KYA	Natufian 13 KYA	EHG Samara 7.5 KYA	Anatolian EF 8 KYA	WHG Hungary K01 7.5 KYA	EEF Stuttgart 7.5 KYA	Yamnaya Rise 522 4.5 KYA
S-Indian	6.13	0.62
Baloch	62.71	36.63		14.33				33.24
Caucasian	24.97	54.15	13.98		37.64		30.6	6.58
NE-Euro		3.84		71.08	0.86	82.06	7.82	56.02
SE-Asian		0.59
Siberian		0.77
NE-Asian
Papuan	0.35		0.68			0.2
American				6.89				2.46
Beringian				1.7				0.75
Mediterranean			27.39		47.24	17.44	49.46
SW-Asian	3.88		53.62		14.00		12.01
San	0.18						0.11
E-African			4.33
Pygmy		0.25
W-African	1.78	3.01		0.13	0.27	0.26		0.98

Some observation:
Baloch is maxed out in Iranian Neolithic population, and 1/3 in CHG. Interestingly it exists also in EHG. In EHG it didn't come from INF or CHG because EHG lacks Caucasian admixture. It must be ancient?
Caucasian is highest in Caucasian Hunter Gatherer, and spills over to Natufians and Iranian Early Farmers. But it didn't spill over Caucasus mountain to European Hunter Gatherer. This is rather surprising.
Caucasian admixture is seen first time on other side of Caucasus in Yamnaya sample. Proportions of Baloch and Caucasian in Yamnaya point of its mediation from Iranian Farmers and not from CHG.
South West Asian admixture is highest in Natufian, which is almost not found in CHG or Iranian farmer. This admixture can easily identify Natufian genes.
Mediterranean admixture is highest in Anatolia. It also is part Natufian and in part WHG as we can see it in Hungarian Hunter gatherer at almost 20% level.

 

[LeBrok]

Here is something very interesting, genomes of Kostenki and Mal'ta boy which are very connected to ancient populations of this region:

Admixtures	Kostenki Black Sea 36 KYA	Mal'ta boy Siberia 24 KYA	Notes
S-Indian	13.18	10.13
Baloch	12.49	24.09	Early Iranian Farmer admixture mostly but also found in EHG.
Caucasian	0.00	0.00	CHG mostly
NE-Euro	29.02	40.14	EHG and most of WHG/ANE
SE-Asian	4.28
Siberian	1.75
NE-Asian
Papuan	5.16	0.7
American	3.32	17.71
Beringian	1.43	6.74
Mediterranean	18.76	0.00	Anatolian EF and WHG mix
SW-Asian	5.89	0.00	Mostly Natufian
San	1.24	0.3
E-African	1.82
Pygmy	0.92	0.19
W-African	0.73

Mal'ta contains only Baloch and NE Euro. Pretty much what was present in EHG, and likewise they miss Mediterranean and SW-Asian.
Kostenki lived north of Black Sea area though much earlier. It contains all the admixtures, even in relation to Natufians, but it is missing Caucasian admixture, same as Mal'ta boy. It seems that Caucasian admixture was a late arrival to the area. These two have even a connection to S-Indian but not to Caucasian?! Where did Caucasian come from?

 

[Goga]

Here is something very interesting, genomes of Kostenki and Mal'ta boy which are very connected to ancient populations of this region:

Admixtures	Kostenki Black Sea 36 KYA	Mal'ta boy Siberia 24 KYA	Notes
S-Indian	13.18	10.13
Baloch	12.49	24.09	Early Iranian Farmer admixture mostly
Caucasian	0.00	0.00	CHG mostly
NE-Euro	29.02	40.14	EHG and most of WHG/ANE
SE-Asian	4.28
Siberian	1.75
NE-Asian
Papuan	5.16	0.7
American	3.32	17.71
Beringian	1.43	6.74
Mediterranean	18.76	0.00	Anatolian EF and WHG mix
SW-Asian	5.89	0.00	Mostly Natufian
San	1.24	0.3
E-African	1.82
Pygmy	0.92	0.19
W-African	0.73

Mal'ta contains only Baloch and NE Euro. Pretty much what was present in EHG, and likewise they miss Mediterranean and SW-Asian.
Kostenki lived north of Black Sea area though much earlier. It contains all the admixtures, even in relation to Natufians, but it is missing Caucasian admixture, same as Mal'ta boy. It seems that Caucasian admixture was a late arrival to the area. These two have even a connection to S-Indian but not to Caucasian?! Where did Caucasian come from?

According to David Reich --> http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32879-David-Reich-s-summary-of-the-population-history-of-Europe

Kostenki clusters VERY close to the Caucasians and Iranian. 'Pure' ANE Mal'ta (MA1) is also the closest to Caucasians and Iranians. Here is the evidence:

 

[Goga]

According to David Reich --> http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32879-David-Reich-s-summary-of-the-population-history-of-Europe

Kostenki clusters VERY close to the Caucasians and Iranian. 'Pure' ANE Mal'ta (MA1) is also the closest to Caucasians and Iranians. Here is the evidence:

Also it seems that Kostenki's genome looked VERY similar to CHG & Neolithic Iran.