Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 3 of 32 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 787

Thread: HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

  1. #51
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    If not counting ~15% of European-like admixture after the Copper Age (migration from Bronze Age Steppe?).

    Later also some Siberian-East Asian and African after 1400 AD (Timurid invasion added East Asian-Siberian?):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_dynasty

    Here is a comparison with use of Dodecad K12b calculator:

    http://s17.postimg.org/vj5yem6jz/Iranians.png



    ^^^
    By the way, Arya is of Bakhtiari descent (they are a Lurish tribe from South-Western Iran):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakhtiari_people
    Thank you for your work man! You did a great job!

    As people know I ever said that I'm a direct descent of unevolved prehistoric 10,000 years old Iranian Farmer, lol. Over time people are changing and evolving andmixing with others.

    What I said is that Kurds are DIRECT descendants of the Medes. The Medes lived in the Iron Age in Media/Persian/Iran. Kurds and Kurdish language are NATIVE to their homeland.

    Era before the Iron Age, the Bronze age was an era of the Medes, Persians, Cimmerians, Alanians, Scythians and other Iranians in Kurdistan.

    Bronze Age was also an age when the Scythians from the Steppes migrated into the Media/Kurdistan, the land of the Medes. Those people migrated and settled down in Media/Kurdistan. And by the time when some Scythians arrived they brought Atlantic-Med and Northern Europe componentswith them. I think that most Steppe ancestry in Kurdistan is from the Bronze Age belonged to Steppe people who settled down in Media.


    Scythian stelae in Hakkari (Central Kurdistan)







    6088941772_a1a3b58aee.jpg37546902074c97dfd9d5ae5a80b21991.jpgHakkari.jpgkurg8.jpgPKKstele.jpg


  2. #52
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Coriolan's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-12-12
    Posts
    176
    Points
    7,553
    Level
    26
    Points: 7,553, Level: 26
    Level completed: 1%, Points required for next Level: 597
    Overall activity: 6.0%


    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Goga, Iran Neolithic wasn't the same as modern Iranians just as Europe Neolithic isn't the same as modern Europeans. 50% or more of Iranian's ancestry is from different sources, mostly people related to Anatolia Neolithic. Don't treat them as the same people as modern Iranians or any nearby people(Kurds). Stop with the Iranian-supremacist bull shit. No matter how often your fantasies are proven incorrect you stick to them, it is very annoying. Why do you copy the idea of a superior Aryan race from white supremacist? You're copying from your enemies. Kurds are just people, they're not superior to anyone.
    Really, Iranians aren't superior to everyone else? But look at Goga, a fine representative of that proud Aryan race; hasn't genetic data confirmed times and again that his supremacist fantasies were true, er, fantasies - as no sane and intelligent person could have doubted.

    Sent from my LG-D855 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

  3. #53
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    17-03-16
    Posts
    501
    Points
    4,446
    Level
    19
    Points: 4,446, Level: 19
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 204
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    If not counting ~15% of European-like admixture after the Copper Age (migration from Bronze Age Steppe?).

    Later also some Siberian-East Asian and African after 1400 AD (Timurid invasion added East Asian-Siberian?):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_dynasty

    Here is a comparison with use of Dodecad K12b calculator:

    http://s17.postimg.org/vj5yem6jz/Iranians.png



    ^^^
    By the way, Arya is of Bakhtiari descent (they are a Lurish tribe from South-Western Iran):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakhtiari_people
    Probably a migration after the Copper Age brought Mediterranean & NE Euro. (SW Asian increases also after the Copper Age too. I didn't see it before). For me, these people could have been IE but not necessarily, since both components are found in non-IE people too and peak in Finnish people and Basques respectively. And we don't know if they were a single mixed group or multiple unrelated groups. SW Asian peaks in Saudis. 'Baloch' peaks in some Brahuis probably who speak Dravidian, then Balochs. Caucasian in Kartvelian speakers.
    But there's 'continuity' in the sense that there wasn't any massive population replacement.
    The Timurids may have brought extra Siberian, East Asian, minor North / South East Asian? but also NE Euro too imo since it existed in the Steppes.

    A sample from Neolithic Hungary I found while googling.



    So, SW Asian too existed in Europe.

    Neolithic to Copper Age Iran
    Caucasian +24,97
    SW Asian +3,88

    Copper Age to Iron Age Iran
    Mediterranean +6,66
    NE Euro +3,01
    SW Asian +2,55

    Sorry if I made any mistakes.
    Last edited by A. Papadimitriou; 28-09-16 at 01:41.

  4. #54
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    Probably a migration after the Copper Age brought Mediterranean & NE Euro. (SW Asian increases also after the Copper Age too. I didn't see it before). For me, these people could have been IE but not necessarily, since both components are found in non-IE people too and peak in Finnish people and Basques respectively. And we don't know if they were a single mixed group or multiple unrelated groups. SW Asian peaks in Saudis. 'Baloch' peaks in some Brahuis probably who speak Dravidian, then Balochs. Caucasian in Kartvelian speakers.
    But there's 'continuity' in the sense that there wasn't any massive population replacement.
    The Timurids may have brought extra Siberian, East Asian, minor North / South East Asian? but also NE Euro too imo since it existed in the Steppes.

    A sample from Neolithic Hungary I found while googling.



    So, SW Asian too existed in Europe.

    Neolithic to Copper Age Iran
    Caucasian +24,97
    SW Asian +3,88

    Copper Age to Iron Age Iran
    Mediterranean +6,66
    NE Euro +3,01
    SW Asian +2,55

    Sorry if I made any mistakes.
    SW Asian is highest in Natufians, it is their signature admixture.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  5. #55
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    I wonder if we should open a new thread for Harappa Admixture and move related posts there.

  6. #56
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    A sample from Neolithic Hungary I found while googling.

    I do like Dodacad K12b more. Maciamo is using this calculator for his maps.


    So, here are the results of that person from Neolithic Hungary:



    Naamloos.jpg

  7. #57
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Here are the source/ancient best matching populations of Harappa admixtures:

    Admixtures Iranian Neolithic
    10,000 Years Ago
    CHG
    13KYA
    Natufian
    13 KYA
    EHG Samara
    7.5 KYA
    Anatolian EF
    8 KYA
    WHG
    Hungary K01
    7.5 KYA
    EEF
    Stuttgart
    7.5 KYA
    Yamnaya
    Rise 522
    4.5 KYA
    S-Indian 6.13 0.62
    Baloch 62.71 36.63 14.33 33.24
    Caucasian 24.97 54.15 13.98 37.64 30.6 6.58
    NE-Euro 3.84 71.08 0.86 82.06 7.82 56.02
    SE-Asian 0.59
    Siberian 0.77
    NE-Asian
    Papuan 0.35 0.68 0.2
    American 6.89 2.46
    Beringian 1.7 0.75
    Mediterranean 27.39 47.24 17.44 49.46
    SW-Asian 3.88 53.62 14.00 12.01
    San 0.18 0.11
    E-African 4.33
    Pygmy 0.25
    W-African 1.78 3.01 0.13 0.27 0.26 0.98
    Some observation:
    Baloch is maxed out in Iranian Neolithic population, and 1/3 in CHG. Interestingly it exists also in EHG. In EHG it didn't come from INF or CHG because EHG lacks Caucasian admixture. It must be ancient?
    Caucasian is highest in Caucasian Hunter Gatherer, and spills over to Natufians and Iranian Early Farmers. But it didn't spill over Caucasus mountain to European Hunter Gatherer. This is rather surprising.
    Caucasian admixture is seen first time on other side of Caucasus in Yamnaya sample. Proportions of Baloch and Caucasian in Yamnaya point of its mediation from Iranian Farmers and not from CHG.
    South West Asian admixture is highest in Natufian, which is almost not found in CHG or Iranian farmer. This admixture can easily identify Natufian genes.
    Mediterranean admixture is highest in Anatolia. It also is part Natufian and in part WHG as we can see it in Hungarian Hunter gatherer at almost 20% level.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 29-09-16 at 04:32.

  8. #58
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Here is something very interesting, genomes of Kostenki and Mal'ta boy which are very connected to ancient populations of this region:

    Admixtures Kostenki
    Black Sea
    36 KYA
    Mal'ta boy
    Siberia
    24 KYA
    Notes
    S-Indian 13.18 10.13
    Baloch 12.49 24.09 Early Iranian Farmer admixture mostly but also found in EHG.
    Caucasian 0.00 0.00 CHG mostly
    NE-Euro 29.02 40.14 EHG and most of WHG/ANE
    SE-Asian 4.28
    Siberian 1.75
    NE-Asian
    Papuan 5.16 0.7
    American 3.32 17.71
    Beringian 1.43 6.74
    Mediterranean 18.76 0.00 Anatolian EF and WHG mix
    SW-Asian 5.89 0.00 Mostly Natufian
    San 1.24 0.3
    E-African 1.82
    Pygmy 0.92 0.19
    W-African 0.73
    Mal'ta contains only Baloch and NE Euro. Pretty much what was present in EHG, and likewise they miss Mediterranean and SW-Asian.
    Kostenki lived north of Black Sea area though much earlier. It contains all the admixtures, even in relation to Natufians, but it is missing Caucasian admixture, same as Mal'ta boy. It seems that Caucasian admixture was a late arrival to the area. These two have even a connection to S-Indian but not to Caucasian?! Where did Caucasian come from?
    Last edited by LeBrok; 29-09-16 at 04:35.

  9. #59
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Here is something very interesting, genomes of Kostenki and Mal'ta boy which are very connected to ancient populations of this region:

    Admixtures Kostenki
    Black Sea
    36 KYA
    Mal'ta boy
    Siberia
    24 KYA
    Notes
    S-Indian 13.18 10.13
    Baloch 12.49 24.09 Early Iranian Farmer admixture mostly
    Caucasian 0.00 0.00 CHG mostly
    NE-Euro 29.02 40.14 EHG and most of WHG/ANE
    SE-Asian 4.28
    Siberian 1.75
    NE-Asian
    Papuan 5.16 0.7
    American 3.32 17.71
    Beringian 1.43 6.74
    Mediterranean 18.76 0.00 Anatolian EF and WHG mix
    SW-Asian 5.89 0.00 Mostly Natufian
    San 1.24 0.3
    E-African 1.82
    Pygmy 0.92 0.19
    W-African 0.73
    Mal'ta contains only Baloch and NE Euro. Pretty much what was present in EHG, and likewise they miss Mediterranean and SW-Asian.
    Kostenki lived north of Black Sea area though much earlier. It contains all the admixtures, even in relation to Natufians, but it is missing Caucasian admixture, same as Mal'ta boy. It seems that Caucasian admixture was a late arrival to the area. These two have even a connection to S-Indian but not to Caucasian?! Where did Caucasian come from?
    According to David Reich --> http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...tory-of-Europe

    Kostenki clusters VERY close to the Caucasians and Iranian. 'Pure' ANE Mal'ta (MA1) is also the closest to Caucasians and Iranians. Here is the evidence:






    a.jpgb.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg b.jpg (50.2 KB, 5 views)

  10. #60
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    According to David Reich --> http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...tory-of-Europe

    Kostenki clusters VERY close to the Caucasians and Iranian. 'Pure' ANE Mal'ta (MA1) is also the closest to Caucasians and Iranians. Here is the evidence:



    Also it seems that Kostenki's genome looked VERY similar to CHG & Neolithic Iran.



    c.jpg

  11. #61
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Possibly CHG was original Beloch group, separated and secluded in Caucasus mountains for 10k years. Genome drifted away and developed CHG admixture there. Likely, it is fairly young admixture not existing in Kostenki yet. Both CHG and Iranian Farmer are composed of Caucasian and Beloch just in different proportions. If CHG was from far away they would also plot fare away from Iranian Neolithic, even if they had partially mixed with locals.

  12. #62
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Wow, just WOW! Anatolian/European Farmers were genetically so far away from CHG/Neolithic Iran, while they (Anatolian Farmers) were close to Neolithic Levant.

    After the agriculture revolution, the Iranians + CHG folks totally replaced the Anatolian Farmers in Anatolia/Asia Minor. This proces occurred during the Copper (Chalcolithic) Age. Copper Age (Chalcolithic) Anatolians were already slightly moving toward Caucasians/Iranians.

    Also, Anatolian Farmers influenced Neolithic Iranian a little bit, that's why Copper Age (Chalcolithic) Iranians are just a little bit shifted toward south.

    Later those Copper Age (Chalcolithic) Iranians got some minor Bronze Age Steppe ancestry, so they shifted a little bit toward west toward Middle Bronze Age Steppe. So there was a some kind of minor back migration from the Steppes into West Asia again AFTER the Bronze Age. And we have archeological evidence for that and we know that some Northwestern (European) Scythians migrated into and settled down in Kurdistan & Iran
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg e.jpg (58.9 KB, 6 views)

  13. #63
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Possibly CHG was original Beloch group, separated and secluded in Caucasus mountains for 10k years. Genome drifted away and developed CHG admixture there. Likely, it is fairly young admixture not existing in Kostenki yet. Both CHG and Iranian Farmer are composed of Caucasian and Beloch just in different proportions. If CHG was from far away they would also plot fare away from Iranian Neolithic, even if they had partially mixed with locals.
    Yeah, I do also believe that at one point CHG and Neolithic Iranian belonged to the same group. But it seems that when CHG broke away from Neo_Iran and settled down in the Caucasus Mountains it received some minor gene flow from EHG, thousands and thousands of years ago. That's why CHG is just a little bit more shifted toward ancient EHG.

    My guess is

    CHG = 97-98 % 'Neolithic Iranian' + 2-3 % EHG

    or

    'Neolithic Iranian' = 97-98 % CHG + 2-3 % ??? (something unknown)

  14. #64
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Wow, just WOW! Anatolian/European Farmers were genetically so far away from CHG/Neolithic Iran, while they (Anatolian Farmers) were close to Neolithic Levant.

    After the agriculture revolution, the Iranians + CHG folks totally replaced the Anatolian Farmers in Anatolia/Asia Minor. This proces occurred during the Copper (Chalcolithic) Age. Copper Age (Chalcolithic) Anatolians were already slightly moving toward Caucasians/Iranians.
    Now we are getting somewhere!

    This is for me the ULTIMATE evidence that during the copper age Anatolia & Mesopotamia was replaced by the same people who invaded Yamnaya. Iranians (Aryans) from Leyla Tepe moved toward Yamnaya and Anatolia/Mesopotamia simultaneously !!!

    I don't why, but Anatolian farmers were the weakest link and got replaced by the CHG/Neo_Iran folks during the Copper Age. It was the time of and correspondents well with the Sumerians of the Ubaid (and later Uruk) period.


    According Carleton Stevens Coon the Sumerians were 'Iranid' people (belonged to the Iranian/Aryan race) !!!

    " It can be shown that Sumerians who lived over five thousand years ago in Mesopotamia are almost identical in skull and face form with living Englishmen, "

    " These early Sumerians, like the inhabitants of the Iranian plateau, had already acquired the projecting, aquiline noses so characteristic of the modem Near East. Like the plateau dwellers, these early Sumerians were Afghanian in race. "

    https://archive.org/stream/RacesOfEu...0Coon_djvu.txt


  15. #65
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Results for Iron age Sycthian.

    S-Indian 1.53
    Baloch 24.12
    Caucasian 8.80
    NE-Euro 40.81
    SE-Asian 1.38
    Siberian 6.27
    NE-Asian 2.00
    Papuan 0.32
    American 2.43
    Beringian 2.00
    Mediterranean 9.35
    SW-Asian -
    San -
    E-African 0.32
    Pygmy -
    W-African 0.64

    1 68.2% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 31.8% brahui (hgdp) @ 5.69
    2 67.3% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 32.7% balochi (hgdp) @ 6.06
    3 67.7% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 32.3% makrani (hgdp) @ 6.07


    1 brahui + chuvash + mordovian + mordovian @ 6.364490
    2 brahui + lithuanian + lithuanian + uzbek @ 6.455594

  16. #66
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Results for Iron age Sycthian.

    S-Indian 1.53
    Baloch 24.12
    Caucasian 8.80
    NE-Euro 40.81
    SE-Asian 1.38
    Siberian 6.27
    NE-Asian 2.00
    Papuan 0.32
    American 2.43
    Beringian 2.00
    Mediterranean 9.35
    SW-Asian -
    San -
    E-African 0.32
    Pygmy -
    W-African 0.64

    1 68.2% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 31.8% brahui (hgdp) @ 5.69
    2 67.3% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 32.7% balochi (hgdp) @ 6.06
    3 67.7% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 32.3% makrani (hgdp) @ 6.07


    1 brahui + chuvash + mordovian + mordovian @ 6.364490
    2 brahui + lithuanian + lithuanian + uzbek @ 6.455594
    Thanks!

    As you can see Scythians were heavily mixed people. Native people in the Steppes (North Central Asia) were linguistically Iranized by proto-East Iranian BMAC folks. Scythians were also mixed with East Asian people.

    Later those East Iranian speaking Scythians of Central Asia moved West toward Ukraine. Some of them back migrated toward and settled down in the land of the Medes (Media in Kurdistan/Western Iran/Iranian Plateau).


    It were the Scythians who brought some Siberians and East Asian DNA to Kurdistan in the Iron Age. That's why Kurds have some of it.


    Kurds and some other Western Iranians have between 10-15 % of that Bronze/Iron Age Scythian's DNA, because Kurds have between 4-7 % NE-Euro component. (4/40 = 10 % & 7/40 = 17,5 %)


    PS. Kurds have ~ 75 % ancient Aryan Medo-Persian DNA, ~13 % Scythian, ~7 % Hurrian/Armenian and ~5 % Semitic (Chaldean/Babylonian/Egypt)

  17. #67
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-12-15
    Posts
    403
    Points
    5,459
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,459, Level: 21
    Level completed: 82%, Points required for next Level: 91
    Overall activity: 18.0%


    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    According Carleton Stevens Coon the Sumerians were 'Iranid' people (belonged to the Iranian/Aryan race) !!!
    Has Iranian or Kurd people still kept some kind of Sumer tradition or customs until now?


    Sumer wrestling


    Altai wrestling


    korean wrestling

  18. #68
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Results for Iron age Sycthian.

    S-Indian 1.53
    Baloch 24.12
    Caucasian 8.80
    NE-Euro 40.81
    SE-Asian 1.38
    Siberian 6.27
    NE-Asian 2.00
    Papuan 0.32
    American 2.43
    Beringian 2.00
    Mediterranean 9.35
    SW-Asian -
    San -
    E-African 0.32
    Pygmy -
    W-African 0.64

    1 68.2% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 31.8% brahui (hgdp) @ 5.69
    2 67.3% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 32.7% balochi (hgdp) @ 6.06
    3 67.7% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 32.3% makrani (hgdp) @ 6.07


    1 brahui + chuvash + mordovian + mordovian @ 6.364490
    2 brahui + lithuanian + lithuanian + uzbek @ 6.455594
    This Scythian sort of resembles Andronovo sample, but with more Caucasian and way more Siberian-Beringian admixtures. Is he turning Mongolian?

    Andronovo
    Population
    S-Indian 0.54
    Baloch 21.23
    Caucasian 2.4
    NE-Euro 56.39
    SE-Asian -
    Siberian 1.93
    NE-Asian -
    Papuan -
    American 1.05
    Beringian 1.22
    Mediterranean 14.37
    SW-Asian -
    San -
    E-African -
    Pygmy 0.06
    W-African 0.81
    Last edited by LeBrok; 29-09-16 at 16:32.

  19. #69
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    17-03-16
    Posts
    501
    Points
    4,446
    Level
    19
    Points: 4,446, Level: 19
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 204
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Yeah, I do also believe that at one point CHG and Neolithic Iranian belonged to the same group. But it seems that when CHG broke away from Neo_Iran and settled down in the Caucasus Mountains it received some minor gene flow from EHG, thousands and thousands of years ago. That's why CHG is just a little bit more shifted toward ancient EHG.

    My guess is

    CHG = 97-98 % 'Neolithic Iranian' + 2-3 % EHG

    or

    'Neolithic Iranian' = 97-98 % CHG + 2-3 % ??? (something unknown)
    What you should explain is why the Baloch component decreases from Neolithic to Copper Age and from Copper Age to Iron Age? (according to HarappaWorld calculator)
    Why the Caucasian component increases significantly from Neolithic to Copper Age. Is it a back migration?
    And then it's the Mediterranean + NE Euro + SW Asian admixture after the Copper Age.

  20. #70
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    What you should explain is why the Baloch component decreases from Neolithic to Copper Age and from Copper Age to Iron Age? (according to HarappaWorld calculator)
    Why the Caucasian component increases significantly from Neolithic to Copper Age. Is it a back migration?
    And then it's the Mediterranean + NE Euro + SW Asian admixture after the Copper Age.
    Honestly, I don't know for sure what happened between late Neolithic and Copper Age. Caucasian and Neolithic_Iranian admixture are almost the same. So, maybe calculators have some trouble to separate both admixtures.

    I think between late Neolithic and Copper Age Neolithic_Iranian mixed a little bit with the Anatolian Farmers. That's why we see at the map that they shift a little it toward south. But as you can see Caucasians and Iranians didn't shift that much from Neolithic_Iranians and CHG.


    Mediterranean + some SW_Asian admixture could be native to Anatolia. Anatolian farmers had most of Mediterranean admixture, that's why we have also very high Mediterranean admixture in the Neolithic European farmers.

    Neolithic Anatolian (European) Farmers = Mediterranean + some SW_Asian + ? Caucasian ???


    After the Copper Age the SW_Asian admixture didn't increase that much and stayed almost the same.


    I already explained why we see NE_Euro in Kurdistan/Western Iran.

  21. #71
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    Has Iranian or Kurd people still kept some kind of Sumer tradition or customs until now?
    Native Kurdish religion (Yezidism) resembles many things with the Sumerian mythology.

    Like ancient Kurds & the modern day Ezdi Kurd (Yezidi), Sumerians were the SUN worshippers and they believed in 7 angels (Annunaki)


    Sumerians Birdlike God (Annunaki):






    Ezdi Kurds portrait the GOD also as a SUN adn have 7 archangels with Tausî Melek as a chiefangel. We do also believe in the creation of cosmos from the cosmic egg (the big bang theory).








    Ezdi sanjak




    Sumerian 'TREE of LIFE' with the WINGED DISK:



    http://treeoflifemeaning22.blogspot....e-of-life.html


    About the Sumerian 'TREE of LIFE':

    " There are several later paintings and drawings of the Tree of Life, but this Sumerian Clay tablet (however crude it might appear) is one of the earliest, if not the first. It is among the original Sumerian Cylinders and clay tablets excavated circa 2, 500 BCE.




    The clay tablet is prepared by rolling the carved metal seal on wet clay, which is then baked. Once baked the tablet cannot be altered. The original Sumerian (Indo-Iranian) concept was that wisdom is likened to a tree whose fruit endows those who eat it with health and longevity. The symbol of an elixir of life had already been well established in antiquity by the Indo-Iranian cultures long before Judaism, Christianity, Islam and other cultures had the opportunity to recognise it. This 4,500 year old clay tablet shows a man and a woman seated below the Tree of Life. Behind the woman is seen a serpent allegedly ‘tempting’ the woman.

    This concept was expurgated in the Bible as the tree of life in the Garden of Eden by the Jews and Christians. The Book of Genesis 3.22 mentions such a tree as 'the giver of eternal life.'
    "

    http://www.zoroastrian.org.uk/vohuma...0of%20Life.htm



    Prominence of the Irano-Afghan Race in Mesopotamia since Sumerian Times. The Iranic or Irano-Afghan race has dominated the plains of Mesopotamia since Sumerian times, as the learned American anthropologist Prof. C. S. Coon notes,

    "The Irano-Afghan race, prominent since Sumerian times in Mesopotamia, is the chief population element in the entire highland territory from the western border of Iran to northern India." (Coon 1939, "The Mediterranean World: (4) - The Irano-Afghan Race", p.415)

    http://iranian.com/History/2005/March/Gutians/

  22. #72
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    CHG, Satsurblia Armenian Chalcolithic Samara HG Poltavka, mid Yamnaya
    Population Population Population Population
    S-Indian 0.62 S-Indian 0.27 S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch 36.63 Baloch 17.64 Baloch 14.33 Baloch 30.06
    Caucasian 54.15 Caucasian 41.35 Caucasian - Caucasian 7.57
    NE-Euro 3.84 NE-Euro 20.25 NE-Euro 75.62 NE-Euro 59.14
    SE-Asian 0.59 SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0.77 Siberian - Siberian - Siberian 0.99
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan 0.15 Papuan - Papuan - Papuan -
    American - American 0.55 American 9.62 American 2.21
    Beringian - Beringian - Beringian 0.15 Beringian -
    Mediterranean - Mediterranean 11.12 Mediterranean - Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian - SW-Asian 8.81 SW-Asian - SW-Asian -
    San - San - San - San -
    E-African - E-African - E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy 0.25 Pygmy - Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 3.01 W-African - W-African 0.2 W-African -
    Anatolian EF Anatolian Chalcolithic
    Population Population
    S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch - Baloch 9.14
    Caucasian 37.64 Caucasian 48.14
    NE-Euro 0.86 NE-Euro 6.45
    SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian - Siberian 0.16
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan - Papuan -
    American - American -
    Beringian - Beringian -
    Mediterranean 47.24 Mediterranean 26.7
    SW-Asian 14.00 SW-Asian 9.27
    San - San -
    E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 0.27 W-African 0.13


    Looks to me that by Chalcolithic there was a massive invasion of Steppe/Yamnaya people into Armenia. It pulled amount of Baloch and Caucasian down and substantially increased NE Euro. I would say 20 to 30% of new population. "Armenians" were also affected by another 20% of population influx from Anatolia EF, this transferred 20% of Mediterranean and SW Asian admixtures. However in Chalcolithic the trend reverses and we can see huge effect of Armenian Chalcolithic on Anatolian Chalcolithic.

    I'm surprised however of low level of Caucasian admixture into Yamnaya. Seems that with Iranian Farmer movement into the Steppe, mostly Baloch admixture was transferred. Looking at NE ratio dropping from Samara (EHG) to Poltavka (Yamnaya), that's like taking roughly 25% of Iranian Farmer genes.


    Poltavka, mid Yamnaya Iranian Neolithic 10,000 years
    Population Population
    S-Indian - S-Indian 6.13
    Baloch 30.06 Baloch 62.71
    Caucasian 7.57 Caucasian 24.97
    NE-Euro 59.14 NE-Euro -
    SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0.99 Siberian -
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan - Papuan 0.35
    American 2.21 American -
    Beringian - Beringian -
    Mediterranean - Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian - SW-Asian 3.88
    San - San 0.18
    E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African - W-African 1.78

  23. #73
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Boreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-05-15
    Location
    Istanbul
    Posts
    681
    Points
    5,695
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,695, Level: 22
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 355
    Overall activity: 28.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP346
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1b1b1

    Ethnic group
    Rumî
    Country: Turkey



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Anatolian EF Anatolian Chalcolithic
    Population Population
    S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch - Baloch 9.14
    Caucasian 37.64 Caucasian 48.14
    NE-Euro 0.86 NE-Euro 6.45
    SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian - Siberian 0.16
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan - Papuan -
    American - American -
    Beringian - Beringian -
    Mediterranean 47.24 Mediterranean 26.7
    SW-Asian 14.00 SW-Asian 9.27
    San - San -
    E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 0.27 W-African 0.13
    Boreas-Harappa.jpg

    Without Caucausian increases during the Chalcolithic, all other changes are in same direction

  24. #74
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,700
    Points
    241,103
    Level
    100
    Points: 241,103, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    CHG, Satsurblia Armenian Chalcolithic Samara HG Poltavka, mid Yamnaya
    Population Population Population Population
    S-Indian 0.62 S-Indian 0.27 S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch 36.63 Baloch 17.64 Baloch 14.33 Baloch 30.06
    Caucasian 54.15 Caucasian 41.35 Caucasian - Caucasian 7.57
    NE-Euro 3.84 NE-Euro 20.25 NE-Euro 75.62 NE-Euro 59.14
    SE-Asian 0.59 SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0.77 Siberian - Siberian - Siberian 0.99
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan 0.15 Papuan - Papuan - Papuan -
    American - American 0.55 American 9.62 American 2.21
    Beringian - Beringian - Beringian 0.15 Beringian -
    Mediterranean - Mediterranean 11.12 Mediterranean - Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian - SW-Asian 8.81 SW-Asian - SW-Asian -
    San - San - San - San -
    E-African - E-African - E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy 0.25 Pygmy - Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 3.01 W-African - W-African 0.2 W-African -
    Anatolian EF Anatolian Chalcolithic
    Population Population
    S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch - Baloch 9.14
    Caucasian 37.64 Caucasian 48.14
    NE-Euro 0.86 NE-Euro 6.45
    SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian - Siberian 0.16
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan - Papuan -
    American - American -
    Beringian - Beringian -
    Mediterranean 47.24 Mediterranean 26.7
    SW-Asian 14.00 SW-Asian 9.27
    San - San -
    E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 0.27 W-African 0.13


    Looks to me that by Chalcolithic there was a massive invasion of Steppe/Yamnaya people into Armenia. It pulled amount of Baloch and Caucasian down and substantially increased NE Euro. I would say 20 to 30% of new population. "Armenians" were also affected by another 20% of population influx from Anatolia EF, this transferred 20% of Mediterranean and SW Asian admixtures. However in Chalcolithic the trend reverses and we can see huge effect of Armenian Chalcolithic on Anatolian Chalcolithic.

    I'm surprised however of low level of Caucasian admixture into Yamnaya. Seems that with Iranian Farmer movement into the Steppe, mostly Baloch admixture was transferred. Looking at NE ratio dropping from Samara (EHG) to Poltavka (Yamnaya), that's like taking roughly 25% of Iranian Farmer genes.


    Poltavka, mid Yamnaya Iranian Neolithic 10,000 years
    Population Population
    S-Indian - S-Indian 6.13
    Baloch 30.06 Baloch 62.71
    Caucasian 7.57 Caucasian 24.97
    NE-Euro 59.14 NE-Euro -
    SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0.99 Siberian -
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan - Papuan 0.35
    American 2.21 American -
    Beringian - Beringian -
    Mediterranean - Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian - SW-Asian 3.88
    San - San 0.18
    E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African - W-African 1.78

    Whatever "Caucasian" represents in this calculator, the Satsurblia number indicates it was present from very early times in the Caucasus. It's also clear that while it increased in Anatolia in the Chalcolithic, it was already present in the Anatolia EF; 37.64 is a significant number. For all the data shows that Iran Neolithic and Anatolia EF were distinct populations, they shared substantial percentages of the same component. (Caucasian)

    There's an interesting comparison between Satsurblia and Iran Neolithic as well for "Caucasian":
    Satsurblia: 54.15
    Iran Neolithic: 24.97

    Then we can look at the two Anatolia samples:
    Anatolia EF: 37.64
    Anatolia Chalcolithic: 48.14

    Is it that the "Caucasian" was first in the area of the Iran Neolithic and then "Baloch" type ancestry entered from the southeast?

    Do we have an Armenian Neolithic sample? I'd wait to draw any larger conclusions until we see those numbers.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  25. #75
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,464
    Points
    56,687
    Level
    73
    Points: 56,687, Level: 73
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 363
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Gedmatch calculators seem to be rather good for ancients as well (not only for modern people).

    Here is a PCA of ancient samples based on their admixture results in Eurogenes K15 calculator:

    http://s16.postimg.org/d5v0tx1et/PCA_described.png



    If we project also some of modern Europeans onto this PCA, I believe they will plot in this area:

    http://s9.postimg.org/rkmjd7cr3/Europeans.png



    =================================================

    Data used for creating that PCA: https://s9.postimg.org/h9vj9gi9p/K15_Ancients.png

    Perhaps a PCA based on HarappaWorld results would be very similar.

Page 3 of 32 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •