GEDMatch HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

Pratt · Jul 26, 2017

HarappaWorld lacks North-Western component, but overall it's a good.

LeBrok · Jul 26, 2017

Icarian Porphyrogene said:
Thank you for your reply, it's very interesting although I doubt about the validity of the results by clustering together all the Aegean Islands (eastern) as in most cases they have totally different historical and anthropological backgrounds

This is what I have for Greek Islanders. I'll be glad if you know gedmatch kit numbers of more Greek Islanders, or you can send me yours.

There are 3 groups here, with Total line for each group. All Greek Islanders look similar, except Cyprus, which is shifted towards Near East.

Greek, Islands, East	Population	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
1	Chios		8.96	38.99	13.77	0.34	0.29		0.03		0.54	23.55	13.86				0.21
2	Dedocanese		9.21	43.68	11.16			0.67	0.28	0.78	0.51	19.72	13.67		0.32
3	Dedocanese		9.42	41.22	12.77		0.28		0.35			21.21	14.58				0.18
4	Andros		8.72	32.35	15.68		0.61	1.57	0.98	0.37		25.74	13.96	0.03
5	Andros		9.49	32.61	16.25		0.43	1.17	0.04	0.64	0.19	24.89	13.15	0.23	0.91

Greek, Islands, East	5	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	0	0

Cretans	Population	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
1	M720376		7.80	37.96	14.90			0.52	0.46	0.21	0.21	20.79	16.31		0.46	0.36
2	M360120		8.87	39.94	13.39			1.37	0.11			21.85	13.70		0.06	0.70
3	M838603		9.02	38.82	16.71	0.17	0.97		0.41	0.20		20.19	13.07		0.18		0.18
4
5

Cretans	3	0	9	39	15	0	0	1	0	0	0	21	14	0	0	0	0

Cyprus	Population	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
1	Cyprus	2.27	10.32	44.15	3.95	1.53			0.36			19.67	17.11		0.33	0.31
2	Cyprus		7.67	43.01	8.00	0.77			0.08	0.40		21.30	18.22		0.55
3	Cyprus	0.76	10.49	42.94	8.24	0.09	0.82		0.03			19.50	16.74		0.05		0.33
4	Cyprus	1.15	10.28	43.97	4.98	0.06	0.31	0.68	0.33			20.88	16.64	0.02	0.29	0.32	0.07

Cyprus	4	1	10	44	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	20	17	0	0	0	0

LeBrok · Jul 26, 2017

Pratt said:
I made a PCA based on that spreadsheet.

This is great, thanks for doing it, Pratt.

LeBrok · Jul 27, 2017

Here we go again. Updated chart. Added Croatian and Tosk Albanian. Also Armenia and Georgia. Interestingly they look in 80% like CHG/Iranian Neolithic, with surprisingly low East Euro. I wonder where they got their Med from and when?

Europeans	# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Finland	4	1	4	2	72	0	5	1	0	0	1	11	3	0	0	0	0
Netherlands	Northerner	0	9	6	55	0	0	0	1	0	0	29	0	0	0	0	0
Latvia	5	1	7	7	65	0	1	0	0	0	0	19	0	0	0	0	0
Lithuania	5	1	8	7	62	0	0	0	1	0	1	20	1	0	0	0	0
Russia	behar	1	4	13	64	0	3	0	0	1	1	13	0	0	0	0	0
Belorussia	behar	1	5	10	64	1	1	0	0	0	0	16	1	0	0	0	0
Ukraine	yunusbayev	1	6	12	58	0	1	0	0	0	0	17	2	0	0	0	0
Poland	LeBrok	1	7	10	57	1	1	0	0	0	0	22	1	0	0	0	0
Slovenia	xing	1	6	15	51	0	0	0	0	0	0	23	3	0	0	0	0
Croatia	1	1	9	14	48	0	1	0	0	1	0	25	2	0	0	0	0
Austria	1	0	6	17	43	1	0	0	0	0	0	28	4	0	0	0	0
Hungary	3	0	9	15	47	0	1	0	0	1	0	25	2	0	0	0	0
Romania	5	0	8	23	35	1	1	0	0	0	0	25	6	0	0	0	0
Bulgaria	5	0	9	25	34	0	0	0	0	0	0	24	7	0	0	0	0
Italy, NE	7	0	7	20	34	0	0	0	0	0	0	31	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, NW	5	0	6	20	33	0	0	0	0	0	0	34	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, Tuscany	4	0	7	25	28	0	0	0	0	0	0	32	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, South	5	0	8	32	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	13	0	1	0	0
Sicily	5	0	9	32	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	12	0	1	0	0
Sardinia	5	0	0	24	16	0	0	0	1	0	0	49	10	0	0	0	0
Macedonia	selectivememri	0	6	25	35	0	1	0	0	0	1	25	7	0	0	0	0
Albania	17	0	6	28	29	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	8	0	0	0	0
Albania, Tosk	7	0	7	30	25	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	9	0	0	0	0
Greece, Mainland	5	0	7	30	26	0	0	0	0	0	0	26	9	0	0	0	0
Greece, East Islands	7	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	0	0
Crete	5	0	8	39	15	0	0	1	0	0	0	21	14	0	0	0	0
Cyprus	4	1	10	44	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	20	17	0	0	0	0
Ashkenazi	11	0	7	33	16	0	0	0	0	0	0	25	15	0	1	0	0
Sephardi, Tunisia	6	1	7	33	8	0	0	0	0	0	0	24	22	0	3	0	1
Turkey	4	1	15	44	11	0	4	3	0	0	1	11	9	0	0	0	0
Armenia	7	1	20	52	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	10	13	0	0	0	0
Georgia	6	0	21	58	7	0	1	0	0	0	0	5	6	0	0	0	0
Palestine	46	1	7	39	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	12	31	0	5	0	2

noman · Jul 27, 2017

Harappa World gives so strange results. I am Pakistani Kashmiri, but it gave me 41% Baloch. I don't know why.

LeBrok · Jul 27, 2017

Here is a comparison of Chalcolithic and Bronze Age Armenia with today's Armenia and Georgia. They really look way different.

M926386	I1631	M691697	RISE407	Modern			Modern
Armenian Chalcolithic	Armenia LBA		Armenian	Georgian
Run time	9.37	Run time	3.92	Run time			Run time
S-Indian	0.27	S-Indian	-	S-Indian	1		S-Indian	0
Baloch	17.64	Baloch	28.22	Baloch	20		Baloch	21
Caucasian	41.35	Caucasian	30.75	Caucasian	52		Caucasian	58
NE-Euro	20.25	NE-Euro	24.77	NE-Euro	3		NE-Euro	7
SE-Asian	-	SE-Asian	-	SE-Asian	-		SE-Asian	-
Siberian	-	Siberian	-	Siberian	-		Siberian	1
NE-Asian	-	NE-Asian	-	NE-Asian	-		NE-Asian	-
Papuan	-	Papuan	-	Papuan	-		Papuan	-
American	0.55	American	1.54	American		American
Beringian	-	Beringian	-	Beringian	-		Beringian	-
Mediterranean	11.12	Mediterranean	6.98	Mediterranean	10		Mediterranean	5
SW-Asian	8.81	SW-Asian	6.38	SW-Asian	13		SW-Asian	6
San	-	San	-	San	-		San	-
E-African	-	E-African	-	E-African	-		E-African	-
Pygmy	-	Pygmy	-	Pygmy	-		Pygmy	-
W-African	-	W-African	1.36	W-African		W-African

BA has way more NE Euro and lowered Caucasian admixture. I bet this is from BA/Chalcolithic invasion from Steppe. No way so much of NE Euro came from other source. The surprise is that BA Armenian left Armenia, evaporated.

Below are the sources of BA and Modern Armenians and Georgians. Caucasian and Baloch, gifts from Caucasian Hunter Gatherer. Mediterranean and SW Asian admixtures, from Neolithic Anatolia. And source for NE Euro. All sources local or very close by.

M603839		M54279	I0746		M766878	I0440
Kotias CHG	8 KYA	Anatolian EF		Poltavka Yamnaya	4.7 kya
Run time	13.98	Run time	10.2		Run time	10.78
S-Indian	0.62	S-Indian	-		S-Indian	-
Baloch	36.63	Baloch	-		Baloch	30.06
Caucasian	54.15	Caucasian	35.9		Caucasian	7.57
NE-Euro	3.84	NE-Euro	3.91		NE-Euro	59.14
SE-Asian	0.59	SE-Asian	-		SE-Asian	-
Siberian	0.77	Siberian	-		Siberian	0.99
NE-Asian	-	NE-Asian	-		NE-Asian	-
Papuan	0.15	Papuan	-		Papuan	-
American	-	American	-		American	2.21
Beringian	-	Beringian	-		Beringian	-
Mediterranean	-	Mediterranean	46.12		Mediterranean	-
SW-Asian	-	SW-Asian	14.03		SW-Asian	-
San	-	San	-		San	-
E-African	-	E-African	-		E-African	-
Pygmy	0.25	Pygmy	-		Pygmy	-
W-African	3.01	W-African	-		W-African	-

LeBrok · Jul 27, 2017

noman said:
Harappa World gives so strange results. I am Pakistani Kashmiri, but it gave me 41% Baloch. I don't know why.

Like it should be. Baloch is ancient central Asian admixture. The center of it is in Iran and Pakistan these days, and probably always has been. Check post #1 of this thread for more info.

Seanp · Jul 27, 2017

LeBrok said:
Here we go again. Updated chart. Added Croatian and Tosk Albanian. Also Armenia and Georgia. Interestingly they look in 80% like CHG/Iranian Neolithic, with surprisingly low East Euro. I wonder where they got their Med from and when?

Europeans # of samples S-Indian Baloch Caucasian NE-Euro SE-Asian Siberian NE-Asian Papuan American Beringian Mediterranean SW-Asian San E-African Pygmy W-African
Finland 4 1 4 2 72 0 5 1 0 0 1 11 3 0 0 0 0
Netherlands Northerner 0 9 6 55 0 0 0 1 0 0 29 0 0 0 0 0
Latvia 5 1 7 7 65 0 1 0 0 0 0 19 0 0 0 0 0
Lithuania 5 1 8 7 62 0 0 0 1 0 1 20 1 0 0 0 0
Russia behar 1 4 13 64 0 3 0 0 1 1 13 0 0 0 0 0
Belorussia behar 1 5 10 64 1 1 0 0 0 0 16 1 0 0 0 0
Ukraine yunusbayev 1 6 12 58 0 1 0 0 0 0 17 2 0 0 0 0
Poland LeBrok 1 7 10 57 1 1 0 0 0 0 22 1 0 0 0 0
Slovenia xing 1 6 15 51 0 0 0 0 0 0 23 3 0 0 0 0
Croatia 1 1 9 14 48 0 1 0 0 1 0 25 2 0 0 0 0
Austria 1 0 6 17 43 1 0 0 0 0 0 28 4 0 0 0 0
Hungary 3 0 9 15 47 0 1 0 0 1 0 25 2 0 0 0 0
Romania 5 0 8 23 35 1 1 0 0 0 0 25 6 0 0 0 0
Bulgaria 5 0 9 25 34 0 0 0 0 0 0 24 7 0 0 0 0
Italy, NE 7 0 7 20 34 0 0 0 0 0 0 31 6 0 0 0 0
Italy, NW 5 0 6 20 33 0 0 0 0 0 0 34 6 0 0 0 0
Italy, Tuscany 4 0 7 25 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 32 8 0 0 0 0
Italy, South 5 0 8 32 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 13 0 1 0 0
Sicily 5 0 9 32 18 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 12 0 1 0 0
Sardinia 5 0 0 24 16 0 0 0 1 0 0 49 10 0 0 0 0
Macedonia selectivememri 0 6 25 35 0 1 0 0 0 1 25 7 0 0 0 0
Albania 17 0 6 28 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 8 0 0 0 0
Albania, Tosk 7 0 7 30 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 9 0 0 0 0
Greece, Mainland 5 0 7 30 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 26 9 0 0 0 0
Greece, East Islands 7 0 9 38 14 0 0 1 0 0 0 23 14 0 0 0 0
Crete 5 0 8 39 15 0 0 1 0 0 0 21 14 0 0 0 0
Cyprus 4 1 10 44 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 20 17 0 0 0 0
Ashkenazi 11 0 7 33 16 0 0 0 0 0 0 25 15 0 1 0 0
Sephardi, Tunisia 6 1 7 33 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 24 22 0 3 0 1
Turkey 4 1 15 44 11 0 4 3 0 0 1 11 9 0 0 0 0
Armenia 7 1 20 52 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 13 0 0 0 0
Georgia 6 0 21 58 7 0 1 0 0 0 0 5 6 0 0 0 0
Palestine 46 1 7 39 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 31 0 5 0 2

Can you add these?

Bosniak:

A903976

Pontian Greek:

T002825
M844814
T508879

Ionian Islander (Greek)

A369427
M932252

Kytheria Islander (Greek)

T989434
T605151
T013566
T335961

Chios Islander (Greek)

A242426
A494945
A680256
M297994
A286177
M485001
M168143
A518543

Slovenian:

M612701

North Italian (Aosta)

Z231483
Z407200
Z394662
Z479660
Z017901
Z333116
Z136630
Z062958
Z835914
Z481541
Z269797

South Italian (Calabria)

M360226
M102854
M900442
M473529
A695965
A552689
A675077
A176776
M211419

Italy, Campania:

A174213
A809174
A705648
A977888
M148245
A640566
A076721

Maltese:

M882107
A625797
M190851
T128716
T766795
T522489
A394177
M006275

Lebanese:

M082752
A348010
A386085
M201211
M978009
M752647
T286199
M952740
A975400

Samaritan:

T027079
T631829
T610600

Iranian:

A103188
M346537
A969963
M508781
M470761
T524191
A184337
A114871

Uyghur (Western China)

T115458
M361178

Portuguese:

A733541
T410362
T667335
M673849
T953680
A056309
M833688
M398834
T066340
T698974

Basque:

T442422
T602958
T621170

Angela · Jul 27, 2017

Seanp said:
Can you add these?

Bosniak:

A903976

Pontian Greek:

T002825
M844814
T508879

Ionian Islander (Greek)

A369427
M932252

Kytheria Islander (Greek)

T989434
T605151
T013566
T335961

Chios Islander (Greek)

A242426
A494945
A680256
M297994
A286177
M485001
M168143
A518543

Slovenian:

M612701

North Italian (Aosta)

Z231483
Z407200
Z394662
Z479660
Z017901
Z333116
Z136630
Z062958
Z835914
Z481541
Z269797

South Italian (Calabria)

M360226
M102854
M900442
M473529
A695965
A552689
A675077
A176776
M211419

Italy, Campania:

A174213
A809174
A705648
M148245
A640566

Maltese:

M882107
A625797
M190851
T128716
T766795
T522489
A394177
M006275

Lebanese:

M082752
A348010
A386085
M201211
M978009
M752647
T286199
M952740
A975400

Samaritan:

T027079
T631829
T610600

Iranian:

A103188
M346537
A969963
M508781
M470761
T524191
A184337
A114871

Uyghur (Western China)

T115458
M361178

Portuguese:

A733541
T410362
T667335
M673849
T953680
A056309
M833688
M398834
T066340
T698974

Basque:

T442422
T602958
T621170

How do we know that these are accurately attributed to these areas? We're supposed to go on faith here?

Seanp · Jul 27, 2017

Angela said:
How do we that these are accurately attributed to these areas? We're supposed to go on faith here?

These are collected by Ancestry DNA, 23andme database with reported ancestry including family tree. Some were sent by other users including genealogists.
There's no 100% Italian or Irish, we know that if we go back to thousands of years our ancestry came from different directions but these results are representative for the region their ancestors came from.

davef · Jul 27, 2017

Can I see the Basque results?

Angela · Jul 27, 2017

Seanp said:
These are collected by Ancestry DNA, 23andme database with reported ancestry including family tree. Some were sent by other users including genealogists.
There's no 100% Italian or Irish, we know that if we go back to thousands of years our ancestry came from different directions but these results are representative for the region their ancestors came from.

You miss the point. These are gedmatch kit numbers. Gedmatch doesn't check that you are who you say you are.

Theoretically, I could be a Spaniard from Barcelona and run my raw data through gedmatch and then go on some internet site and claim I'm Basque while giving out my kit number. Or maybe I come from Basque country but have a non-Basque grandmother, but I don't realize it's relevant.

Let's take another example. How about someone has been given 20 sets of results by people purporting to be of a certain ancestry, but cherry picks and includes only 10 for some point being made? See the problem?

This is why you would prefer representative sampling by academics. It's also why anything you see by amateurs on the internet should be treated with a healthy dose of skepticism. Honestly, I think everyone would benefit from spending some time in the fraud division of some court.

Seanp · Jul 27, 2017

Angela said:
You miss the point. These are gedmatch kit numbers. Gedmatch doesn't check that you are who you say you are.

Theoretically, I could be a Spaniard from Barcelona and run my raw data through gedmatch and then go on some internet site and claim I'm Basque while giving out my kit number. Or maybe I come from Basque country but have a non-Basque grandmother, but I don't realize it's relevant.

Let's take another example. How about someone has been given 20 sets of results by people purporting to be of a certain ancestry, but cherry picks and includes only 10 for some point being made? See the problem?

This is why you would prefer representative sampling by academics. It's also why anything you see by amateurs on the internet should be treated with a healthy dose of skepticism. Honestly, I think everyone would benefit from spending some time in the fraud division of some court.

I see your point and that's true someone can fake his ethnicity for some reason, but I checked these results and if someone let's say claims to be Irish but clusters with Saudi Arabians then he obviously lies about his ancestry or been adopted. DNA doesn't lie there are different patterns for each regions and you can see a person from Veneto will get other Venetian or North Italian matches on Gedmatch and so. Even if he has let's say 1/32 other ancestry it won't make him genetically different from the rest of Venetians.

Let's see my point: The Basque result I posted

Gedmatch kit: T442422

It's very unlikely this person lies about his ancestry or just doesn't know where his ancestors came from.

#	Population	Percent
1	North_Atlantic	54.02
2	West_Med	43.12
3	Red_Sea	1.47
4	South_Asian	0.85
5	Sub-Saharan	0.47
6	Northeast_African	0.07

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	French_Basque	9.1
2	Spanish_Aragon	19.64
3	Southwest_French	20.88
4	Spanish_Cantabria	21.28
5	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha	22.15
6	Spanish_Andalucia	23.25
7	Spanish_Valencia	24.14
8	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon	24.44
9	Spanish_Murcia	24.76
10	Spanish_Cataluna	24.78
11	Spanish_Extremadura	25.13
12	Spanish_Galicia	25.45
13	Portuguese	26.4
14	French	29.86
15	North_Italian	32.4
16	Southwest_English	32.42
17	South_Dutch	33.66
18	Sardinian	34
19	Southeast_English	34.11
20	West_German	35.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#	Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
1	96.1%	French_Basque	+	3.9%	Sardinian	@	9
2	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Abhkasian	@	9.1
3	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Adygei	@	9.1
4	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Afghan_Pashtun	@	9.1
5	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Afghan_Tadjik	@	9.1
6	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Afghan_Turkmen	@	9.1
7	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Aghan_Hazara	@	9.1
8	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Algerian	@	9.1
9	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Algerian_Jewish	@	9.1
10	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Altaian	@	9.1
11	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Armenian	@	9.1
12	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Ashkenazi	@	9.1
13	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Assyrian	@	9.1
14	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Austrian	@	9.1
15	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Austroasiatic_Ho	@	9.1
16	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Azeri	@	9.1
17	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Balkar	@	9.1
18	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Balochi	@	9.1
19	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Bangladeshi	@	9.1
20	100%	French_Basque	+	0%	Bantu_N.E.	@	9.1

Other example is a Maltese M882107 again it's very unlikely this person has some outside influences and even if he has it doesn't make him different from the rest of his countrymen. Genealogists occasionally can screw up different DNA results too but it's usually a statistical noise and won't change the genetic of the reference population drastically.

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	34.73
2	European_Early_Farmers	24.95
3	Near_East	12.29
4	European_Hunters_Gatherers	10.41
5	North_African	8.11
6	South_Central_Asian	4.01
7	Ancestral_Altaic	1.62
8	Melano_Polynesian	1.28

Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Maltese_ @ 3.044078
2 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 3.185654
3 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 3.535299
4 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 4.251839
5 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.570505
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.832802
7 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.029501
8 French_Jew_ @ 5.283175
9 Italian_Jew_ @ 7.181714
10 Turk_Jew_ @ 7.431051
11 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.596139
12 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 7.654933
13 Sicilian_Center_ @ 7.758188
14 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 8.172043
15 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.212935
16 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 8.991903
17 Cretan_ @ 9.512802
18 Italian_South_ @ 10.034826
19 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 10.924088
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 11.476445

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Maltese_ +50% Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 2.682282

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Piedmont_ +25% Lebanese_ +25% Libyan_Jew_ @ 1.858735

Academic samples by Dodecad provided samples from people of verified Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry, but if you look closely you see 2-3 individuals who score as high as 30-40% North European ancestry. These individuals are obviously recently admixed and not fully Jewish, yet Dienekes Pontikos still used these in his "Ashkenazi Jewish" sample

See below

IronSide · Jul 27, 2017

These are my results:

#	Population	Percent
1	SW-Asian	43.76
2	Caucasian	30.15
3	Mediterranean	9.34
4	Baloch	6.34
5	E-African	6.27
6	S-Indian	1.62
7	NE-Euro	0.79
8	Papuan	0.77
9	NE-Asian	0.57
10	Siberian	0.3
11	Beringian	0.08
12	American	0.01

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	yemen-jew (behar)	10.1
2	yemenese (behar)	13.08
3	egyptian (behar)	13.74
4	bedouin (hgdp)	14.15
5	egypt (henn2012)	14.52
6	palestinian (hgdp)	14.87
7	saudi (behar)	15.02
8	jordanian (behar)	16.97
9	qatari (henn2012)	17.68
10	samaritian (behar)	20.43
11	syrian (behar)	20.83
12	palestinian (harappa)	21.41
13	lebanese (behar)	22.34
14	iraqi-arab (harappa)	24.63
15	lebanese-muslim (haber)	25.81
16	libya (henn2012)	26.4
17	lebanese-christian (haber)	26.51
18	iraq-jew (behar)	27.57
19	lebanese-druze (haber)	28.29
20	iraqi-mandaean (harappa)	29.01

LeBrok · Jul 27, 2017

IronSide said:
These are my results:

# Population (source) Distance
1 yemen-jew (behar) 10.1
2 yemenese (behar) 13.08
3 egyptian (behar) 13.74
4 bedouin (hgdp) 14.15

Name your ethnicity please. Was it the same for last 2 generations?

IronSide · Jul 27, 2017

LeBrok said:
Name your ethnicity please. Was it the same for last 2 generations?

Sure, I should be Saudi Arabian for the last 4 generations. When I took the test I hoped that it may shed light on how I got this Y-dna of mine, but I'm now more confused than before.

Sparkey made a map for I2c

I personally invoke the sea peoples :grin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midian#Pottery

Pax Augusta · Jul 27, 2017

Seanp said:
South Italian (Calabria)

M360226
M102854
M900442
M473529
A695965
A552689
A675077
A176776

Italy, Campania:

A174213
A809174
A705648
A977888
M148245
A640566
A076721

Most of these are American mutts, and some are even not of Italian ancestry, while others are not from Calabria or Campania, but instead they have ancestors from different regions of south Italy. Only a minority are what you claim they are.

Seanp · Jul 27, 2017

Pax Augusta said:
Most of these are American mutts, and some are even not of Italian ancestry, while others are not from Calabria or Campania, but instead they have ancestors from different regions of south Italy. Only a minority are what you claim they are.

How would you define which is Italian or not when they came from a region of a generally heterogeneous history. "American Mutts" Some are still living in Italy while the majority are Italian Born or first generation Italian American. Most second/thrird generation Italian Americans are mixed with Irish, British so they would be significantly more North European genetically than a full South Italian would be, if that was the case.
Calabrian Y-dna study: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/calabria_dna/

"Founded in 2002, this project has been established to study the genetic heritage of Calabria, which has been a crossroads of civilization for almost 3000 years of recorded history. DNA testing, both yDNA for paternal lines and mtDNA for maternal lines, can provide a picture of the deep and recent ethnic background of Calabrians and their descendants. This includes Greek, Italian, Arab, Sephardic Jewish, Norman and Spanish backgrounds, among others."

All these people are native Calabrese or Campanians who happen to have different influences from historical groups like Iberians who ruled South Italy for a short period time and the Byzantines as well.

South Italian author of Calabrian DNA project from Reggio Calabria with verified family tree: http://www.calabriadna.com/family-trees/family-tree/

"In 2002 I found a company called FAMILY TREE DNA, and I tested my own Y-DNA, which I inherited pretty much unchanged from my original Loccisano ancestor 1000s of years ago. I found out that my Loccisano ancestor was not a European line, and infact, he came from around the Caucauses mountains/Middle East region and carried a unique mutation called M406 on his Y-DNA (which I have on my Y-DNA also). As more people from around the world are sampled, we can figure out which Middle Eastern groups carry M406, and will be able to determine which ancient group of people my Loccisano ancestor came from before reaching Calabria. It would be great to get other Calabrians to take a Y-DNA test to find the origins of their father's family and an mtDNA to show the origins of their mother's maternal line."

Gedmatch ID: M102854

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	41.68
2	Neolithic	25.56
3	Steppe	9.59
4	NearEast	9.15
5	NorthEastEuropean	7.11
6	NorthAfrican	3.75
7	EastAfrican	1.55
8	Subsaharian	0.68
9	Indian	0.61
10	Oceanic	0.3
11	Amerindian	0.03

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Jew (Italian)	4.12
2	Jew (Bulgaria)	4.14
3	Jew (Ashkenazim)	4.61
4	Jew (Turkish_Sephardim)	4.74
5	Jew (Ashkenazi)	4.85
6	Italian (SouthItaly)	5.18
7	Jew (Turkey)	5.37
8	Sicilian (Sicily)	5.4
9	Jew (Sephardim)	5.7
10	Greek (Greece)	6.01
11	Maltese (Malta)	6.24
12	Greek (Athens)	6.25
13	Jew (Algeria)	6.84
14	Jew (Ashkenazi)	7.74
15	Italian (Abruzzo)	7.74
16	Jew (Morocco)	7.86
17	Greek (Macedonia)	8.5
18	Greek (Peloponnes)	9.23
19	Jew (Syria)	9.78
20	Greek (Greece)	9.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#	Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
1	60.6%	Cypriot (Cyprus)	+	39.4%	Corsican (Corsica)	@	1.39
2	70.8%	Cypriot (Cyprus)	+	29.2%	Spanish (Spain)	@	1.5
3	67.2%	Sicilian (Sicily)	+	32.8%	Cypriot (Cyprus)	@	1.54
4	68.7%	Cypriot (Cyprus)	+	31.3%	Portuguese (Portugal)	@	1.86
5	58%	Jew (Turkish_Sephardim)	+	42%	Greek (Athens)	@	2.01
6	76.9%	Sicilian (Sicily)	+	23.1%	Druze (Mount_Carmel)	@	2.09
7	61.4%	Jew (Italian)	+	38.6%	Greek (Greece)	@	2.09
8	81%	Sicilian (Sicily)	+	19%	Jew (Iraqi)	@	2.19
9	71.4%	Druze (Mount_Carmel)	+	28.6%	Spanish (Pais_Vasco)	@	2.26
10	68.2%	Cypriot (Cyprus)	+	31.8%	Provencal (Provence)	@	2.28
11	64.8%	Cypriot (Cyprus)	+	35.2%	Italian (Bergamo)	@	2.28
12	70.8%	Druze (Mount_Carmel)	+	29.2%	French (SouthFrance)	@	2.29
13	66.4%	Druze (Mount_Carmel)	+	33.6%	Spanish (Aragon)	@	2.4
14	70.7%	Sicilian (Sicily)	+	29.3%	Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon)	@	2.47
15	74%	Druze (Mount_Carmel)	+	26%	Basque (France)	@	2.5
16	79.4%	Cypriot (Cyprus)	+	20.6%	French (SouthFrance)	@	2.51
17	53.8%	Greek (Greece)	+	46.2%	Jew (Algeria)	@	2.54
18	74.2%	Cypriot (Cyprus)	+	25.8%	French (France)	@	2.54
19	63%	Druze (Mount_Carmel)	+	37%	Spanish (Andalucia)	@	2.56
20	78.6%	Italian (SouthItaly)	+	21.4%	Druze (Mount_Carmel)	@	2.58

Angela · Jul 27, 2017

IronSide said:
Sure, I should be Saudi Arabian for the last 4 generations. When I took the test I hoped that it may shed light on how I got this Y-dna of mine, but I'm now more confused than before.

Sparkey made a map for I2c

View attachment 8975

I personally invoke the sea peoples :grin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midian#Pottery

Very interesting, Ironside. Does this calculator perhaps not have a reference population for Saudis?

@seanp
Don't play games. Obviously, if someone is really Saudi and says he's Basque, it will be easy to tell it's fraudulent. However, if you're trying to find fine scale substructure within one country, you want to make absolutely certain that at least all four grandparents of that person come from exactly the same spot. Hopefully, you'd want to go even further back into the family tree. If you're talking about Italian-Americans, I know hundreds if not thousands of them, and even the ones who are in their 80s are often "mixed", i.e. half Barese/half Sicilian, half Calabrese/half Neapolitan etc. These are people born here in America. You don't seem to have a grasp of how long ago most Italians arrived in the U.S. and Canada, so long ago that these first generation Italo-Americans sometimes don't even know the precise area from which their ancestors came. People have told me they're from Lazio when upon questioning they're from an area which is now Lazio but used to be Campania. I've had Arbereshe tell me they're Calabrian or Sicilian, people who think they're from Campania because the ship's manifest says that they departed from Napoli. It's a mess.

That's even assuming that I trust the "gatherer" of the information, which in this case would be you, I suppose. I'll say it directly. I don't trust any "friend" of Sikelliot. All I've ever gotten from them is doctored or cherry-picked data, photos, history, you name it. They're as bad as the Spaniards who used to post here.

So far as I'm concerned, the way to look at the data from Italo-Americans is Sicily vs mainland southern Italy. I'm skeptical of anything else.

My two cents.

Azzurro · Jul 27, 2017

Angela said:
Very interesting, Ironside. Does this calculator perhaps not have a reference population for Saudis?

@seanp
Don't play games. Obviously, if someone is really Saudi and says he's Basque, it will be easy to tell it's fraudulent. However, if you're trying to find fine scale substructure within one country, you want to make absolutely certain that at least all four grandparents of that person come from exactly the same spot. Hopefully, you'd want to go even further back into the family tree. If you're talking about Italian-Americans, I know hundreds if not thousands of them, and even the ones who are in their 80s are often "mixed", i.e. half Barese/half Sicilian, half Calabrese/half Neapolitan etc. These are people born here in America. You don't seem to have a grasp of how long ago most Italians arrived in the U.S. and Canada, so long ago that these first generation Italo-Americans sometimes don't even know the precise area from which their ancestors came. People have told me they're from Lazio when upon questioning they're from an area which is now Lazio but used to be Campania. I've had Arbereshe tell me they're Calabrian or Sicilian, people who think they're from Campania because the ship's manifest says that they departed from Napoli. It's a mess.

That's even assuming that I trust the "gatherer" of the information, which in this case would be you, I suppose. I'll say it directly. I don't trust any "friend" of Sikelliot. All I've ever gotten from them is doctored or cherry-picked data, photos, history, you name it. They're as bad as the Spaniards who used to post here.

So far as I'm concerned, the way to look at the data from Italo-Americans is Sicily vs mainland southern Italy. I'm skeptical of anything else.

My two cents.

You are absolutely right about the whole mixed Italian ethnicities in North America, In Montreal majority of Italian immigration came in the 50's and 60's as did my 4 grandparents, so I and most of my friends are second generation Italo-Canadians, and I do not know or grew up with of these second generations who is fully from the same ancestral village let alone the same region, but all of our parents being first generation would be good representations, so first generation Italo-Canadians from Montreal would qualify.

GEDMatch HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

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