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Thread: Turkmen closer to Azeris , Turks or to Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks ? ( DNA, Mongoloid )

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    Turkmen closer to Azeris , Turks or to Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks ? ( DNA, Mongoloid )

    Please tell me what you think.



    Are Turkmens closer to Turkey/Azerbaijan or other Central Asian Turks?


    Why I think they are closer to Azeris, Turks

    - Linguistically, Turkmen belongs to the Oghuz -Turkic group unlike other who belong to the Kipchak-Turkic group.
    - Of all Central Asian Turks, Turkmen is the most Caucasoid DNA and physically

    My reason for Turkmen being closer to Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks


    - They are in Central Asia
    - Many of them look strongly Mongoloid aswell



    But at this moment I can't decide still.


    Turkmen DNA 18 - 58% Mongoloid




    Azeris 6 - 29% Mongoloid



    Turks 5 - 25% Mongoloid


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    I doubt that you can decide this from such simplistic two admixtures.
    Try finding list of modern DNA of Turks and Central Asians, run through gedmatch in HarappaWorld and compare to ancient samples from Anatolia and the region.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...d-contemporary
    Go through this thread, lots of data already there. Something interesting should show up.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I doubt that you can decide this from such simplistic two admixtures.
    Try finding list of modern DNA of Turks and Central Asians, run through gedmatch in HarappaWorld and compare to ancient samples from Anatolia and the region.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...d-contemporary
    Go through this thread, lots of data already there. Something interesting should show up.

    I simply just want to know if they are closer to Azeris/Turks. As you can see from this chart Turkmen is one step behind the line to Uzbek but is also in the same section as Turkish.




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    PCA distances are telling much better. Though we need more resolution and more populations in this chart. Will be more interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    PCA distances are telling much better. Though we need more resolution and more populations in this chart. Will be more interesting.

    So what's your opinion. Are they closer to Uzbeks of Central Asia or Azeris ?

    Turkmen, Azeris, Turkish are all Oghuz speakers.





    Although geographically Turkmen is in Central Asia it's also the closest to Azerbaijan, Turkey and mind you the regions of North Iran is called Azerbaijan Iran is because it's inhabited by mostly by Turkic people even today


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurka atla View Post
    So what's your opinion. Are they closer to Uzbeks of Central Asia or Azeris ?

    without doubt, no Kazakh, Kyrgyz

    but some searches says Uzbek can be

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    without doubt, no Kazakh, Kyrgyz

    but some searches says Uzbek can be

    Uzbeks is most closest to Uyghur genetically also they are linguistically, culturally similar to eachother.

    Do Turkmen and Uzbek look similar



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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurka atla View Post
    Uzbeks is most closest to Uyghur genetically also they are linguistically, culturally similar to eachother.

    Do Turkmen and Uzbek look similar
    You are right about Uyghur and Uzbeks.

    I am making comparision between Uzbeks - Turkmen - Turk/Azeri and In some research, Turkmens are more close to Uzbek then Turks.

    Comparison with looking won't give the truth. Because, in European perspective, if you are slant eyes, you are mongolid. However even a little Asian admixture can causes slant eyes.


    turkmen.png

    Maybe Turkmens are really close with Turk/Azeris but this simlarity is not as strong as Uzbek-Uyhgur or Kazakh-Kyrgyz similarites

    Turkmen 2.jpg

    Majority is not close (Blue-Green Circles), however there are close mix groups - red circle.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    You are right about Uyghur and Uzbeks.

    I am making comparision between Uzbeks - Turkmen - Turk/Azeri and In some research, Turkmens are more close to Uzbek then Turks.

    Comparison with looking won't give the truth. Because, in European perspective, if you are slant eyes, you are mongolid. However even a little Asian admixture can causes slant eyes.


    turkmen.png

    Maybe Turkmens are really close with Turk/Azeris but this simlarity is not as strong as Uzbek-Uyhgur or Kazakh-Kyrgyz similarites

    Turkmen 2.jpg

    Majority is not close (Blue-Green Circles), however there are close mix groups - red circle.


    In my opinion Turkmeninstan with areas closer to Uzbekistanare closer to Central Asian Turks while Turkmenistan areas closer to Iran are closer to Azeris.

    I've read that the area of what is now southern Turkmenistan used to be iran. the Turkmen in the 16th- 17th century expanded south and incorporated a portion of it's land to Turkmenistan however the same is true for Kazakhstan where large parts from the south used to be Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. Central Asian khantes were fighting one another.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurka atla View Post
    In my opinion Turkmeninstan with areas closer to Uzbekistanare closer to Central Asian Turks while Turkmenistan areas closer to Iran are closer to Azeris.
    If I need to choose, I will put Turkmens in Azeri/Turk category. But as I said the connection is not too much strong.

    In some research, Turkmens are in Europe group
    http://lmv.hu/files/A-Y-chromosome-comparison.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    If I need to choose, I will put Turkmens in Azeri/Turk category. But as I said the connection is not too much strong.

    In some research, Turkmens are in Europe group
    http://lmv.hu/files/A-Y-chromosome-comparison.pdf

    Why do Turkmens keep getting different result here and there. It seems to be there is no true accurate DNA study for Turkmen.

    Some are 15-20% Mongoloid some are 25-33% Mongoloid and some are 35-58%

    In this study the Turkmen seems even slightly closer to Uzbek than Uyghurs but in most studies Uyghurs and Uzbeks are almost 90% similar.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurka atla View Post
    Why do Turkmens keep getting different result here and there. It seems to be there is no true accurate DNA study for Turkmen.

    Some are 15-20% Mongoloid some are 25-33% Mongoloid and some are 35-58%

    In this study the Turkmen seems even slightly closer to Uzbek than Uyghurs but in most studies Uyghurs and Uzbeks are almost 90% similar.


    They are mixed not like the Europe nations. This research says they are more Persian and averange Iranian. I guess that's why my some researches says they are close to indo-europeans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post


    They are mixed not like the Europe nations. This research says they are more Persian and averange Iranian. I guess that's why my some researches says they are close to indo-europeans

    This is why I don't like these spreadsheet results because they always show the average number but never the total. The problem with these spreadsheets is if they have 50 samples on individuals. 5 out of 50 of the samples happen to be 35% Mongoloid and and 4 samples with 50% Mongoloid, 3 samples 70% mongoloid, 2 samples 80% Mongoloid, 3 samples 25% Mongoloid , 2 samples 40% Mongoloid.

    The result that matters is the " highest no. of sample = the average number " . So even if a ethnic group DNA range from 25% Mongoloid to 80% Mongoloid. In the end they will use 35% Mongoloid to represent the ethnic group. So the number they put on spreadsheet may represent from only 10% or 30% of the population and this is one of the biggest flaws with spreadsheet data.

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    HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 39.44
    2 Baloch 14.37
    3 Mediterranean 13.89
    4 SW-Asian 11.74
    5 NE-Euro 10.46
    6 NE-Asian 2.68
    7 S-Indian 2.20
    8 Beringian 1.78
    9 Siberian 1.37


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 turk-kayseri @ 7.651587
    2 turk-istanbul @ 7.653186
    3 turk-aydin @ 7.767722
    4 turkish @ 8.824174
    5 turk @ 9.285530
    6 armenian @ 11.905169
    7 azeri @ 12.057047
    8 uzbekistan-jew @ 14.820162
    9 kurd @ 15.110064
    10 lebanese @ 15.264257
    11 lebanese-muslim @ 15.303683
    12 cypriot @ 15.349828
    13 ashkenazy-jew @ 15.399670
    14 iraqi-arab @ 15.537961
    15 north-ossetian @ 16.303885
    16 sephardic-jew @ 16.317814
    17 iranian @ 16.476582
    18 palestinian @ 16.639181
    19 syrian @ 16.753130
    20 kurd @ 16.832850

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% ashkenazy-jew +50% azeri @ 3.283274


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% cypriot +25% tajik +25% turk-aydin @ 2.098772


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 ashkenazi + georgian + morocco-jew + turkmen @ 1.670837
    2 ashkenazy-jew + georgian + morocco-jew + turkmen @ 1.803299
    3 druze + turkish + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.870414
    4 druze + turkish + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.875345
    5 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.920042
    6 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.920232
    7 ashkenazi + cypriot + turkish + turkmen @ 1.932068
    8 armenian + lebanese + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.939520
    9 druze + turkish + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.948603
    10 armenian + italian + lebanese-druze + turkmen @ 1.962133
    11 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.963442
    12 armenian + lebanese + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.965451
    13 armenian + syrian + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.970183
    14 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.987924
    15 ashkenazi + azeri + cypriot + turkmen @ 1.991716
    16 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.006990
    17 armenian + syrian + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.015513
    18 armenian + lebanese + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.023961
    19 armenian + syrian + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.034332
    20 lebanese-druze + turk + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.035268

    Done.

    Elapsed time 2.1518 seconds.

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    As a turk i would think Azeri would be closer

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