Facial Reconstruction of Mycaenean era (c.1500 BC) nobleman from ancient Greece

The Slavic migrations into the Balkans are an assumption, now? That's settled, as far as I'm concerned, based both on the historical record, genetics, and linguistics, and it's settled for virtually anyone who knows anything about any of those disciplines, except for some south Slavs who can't accept that their language is a late comer to the Balkans, as well as part of their ancestry.

So, I repeat, why would a Mycenaean necessarily look like a Slavic admixed Balkanite?

For your information, it took five seconds to find those pictures. Just google "Greek Americans". There was no cherry picking, and yes, they resemble him, within the limits of a computer generated picture, and the fact that some of them have lighter pigmentation. How you can supposedly come from the Balkans and not recognize that look is beyond me.

You have yet to name one feature that is so "exotic" and un-Greek like.

You know what, forget it. There's obviously some subtext here, so believe whatever you want, but there is nothing particularly Egyptian looking about that reconstruction. Maybe you should take a look at some Egyptian art or even modern crowd scenes from Egypt. Most Egyptians have quite a bit of SSA. There's nothing SSA about the Griffin Warrior reconstruction. Whatever resemblance exists is because both groups, Greeks and Egyptians both, have a lot of ancestry from the Mediterranean.

I have taken an introductory class of history of art. There we learned that the oldest Greek sculpture ever found is a copy of the Egyptian sculpture which are a lot older than Greek sculptures. Egyptians of antiquity believed that the spirit of a dead person needed a place to rest so they constructed sculptures. How did that first sculpture ended up in Greece? Either Greeks imported it from Egypt or Egyptians were broadening their in-habitat and brought with them their believes and art. So if the reconstruction of the face is accurate means that Egyptians migrated to present day Greece. The Egyptian haplogroups are also present in Greece. Greeks are a collection of Mediterranean people fused together by intermingling. To me the face looks Egyptian.
 
The Slavic migrations into the Balkans are an assumption, now? That's settled, as far as I'm concerned, based both on the historical record, genetics, and linguistics, and it's settled for virtually anyone who knows anything about any of those disciplines, except for some south Slavs who can't accept that their language is a late comer to the Balkans, as well as part of their ancestry.

So, I repeat, why would a Mycenaean necessarily look like a Slavic admixed Balkanite?

For your information, it took five seconds to find those pictures. Just google "Greek Americans". There was no cherry picking, and yes, they resemble him, within the limits of a computer generated picture, and the fact that some of them have lighter pigmentation. How you can supposedly come from the Balkans and not recognize that look is beyond me.

You have yet to name one feature that is so "exotic" and un-Greek like.

You know what, forget it. There's obviously some subtext here, so believe whatever you want, but there is nothing particularly Egyptian looking about that reconstruction. Maybe you should take a look at some Egyptian art or even modern crowd scenes from Egypt. Most Egyptians have quite a bit of SSA. There's nothing SSA about the Griffin Warrior reconstruction. Whatever resemblance exists is because both groups, Greeks and Egyptians both, have a lot of ancestry from the Mediterranean.
Like I said in my previous post, are u still talking to me or some fantasy member saying that Griffin should resemble the Slavic mixed Northern Balkanites? And thanks for the free lessons on Slavs settling to the Balkans, but I'm nobody is talking about them and I'm actually aware what happened. Perhaps u can mention Romanians in ur next post and fantasize how I compared Griffin to them. U know, just for the fun of putting words in people's mouths.

U live in the US and I live currently in a place (not Switzerland) full of Egyptians, so I don't expect u to know what I'm talking about. I've gotten so familiar to all different types of Arabs that now I can finally tell them apart so easily.
 
the Griffin individual might appear to some people as more "Egyptian" shifted, this is because some Greeks are little and all Balkanites today allot Slavic shifted and not the ancient once Egyptian. To me he looks like some Greeks I have seen nothing unusual.

I join Angela in the opinion that the Guy looks generally Eastern Mediterranean, West Asian. I could seen him as Greek, Levantine, Anatolian, Egyptian as well West Iranic(actually West Iranic before even Anatolian or Levantine imo). He gives me in fact a very West Iranic vibe, what some other might not have seen because they don't have that much expiernce there.

Compare him to this Iranian dude.
khordadian_14.jpg
maxresdefault.jpg
 
Like I said in my previous post, are u still talking to me or some fantasy member saying that Griffin should resemble the Slavic mixed Northern Balkanites? And thanks for the free lessons on Slavs settling to the Balkans, but I'm nobody is talking about them and I'm actually aware what happened. Perhaps u can mention Romanians in ur next post and fantasize how I compared Griffin to them. U know, just for the fun of putting words in people's mouths.

U live in the US and I live currently in a place (not Switzerland) full of Egyptians, so I don't expect u to know what I'm talking about. I've gotten so familiar to all different types of Arabs that now I can finally tell them apart so easily.

If you're a resident of a place other than Switzerland, which is what your profile shows, and the UAE is definitely not Switzerland, then you're in violation of the rules and you'll get an infraction. What is wrong with you people? It's a simple rule to try to cut down on people hiding their real ethnicity, for who knows what reason.

I don't care how many people you see of how many nationalities, facial pattern recognition is obviously not your forte. Oh, and keep a civil tongue in your head while you're at it.
 
For example look at this Greek guy. Beside this guy looking a little bid more broader headed and actually therefore being more "northern" shifted how some might call it.

His hair texture, coloring etc look very like the Griffin guy.

Costa-Cordalis_3189.jpg
 
I have taken an introductory class of history of art. There we learned that the oldest Greek sculpture ever found is a copy of the Egyptian sculpture which are a lot older than Greek sculptures. Egyptians of antiquity believed that the spirit of a dead person needed a place to rest so they constructed sculptures. How did that first sculpture ended up in Greece? Either Greeks imported it from Egypt or Egyptians were broadening their in-habitat and brought with them their believes and art. So if the reconstruction of the face is accurate means that Egyptians migrated to present day Greece. The Egyptian haplogroups are also present in Greece. Greeks are a collection of Mediterranean people fused together by intermingling. To me the face looks Egyptian.

So, because nation X trades with nation Y and X's culture is therefore influenced by Y, that means there was enough migration from nation Y to change the genetic make up in nation X?

How could you possibly assert such a thing?

Is that what happened in Japan? After all, look at all those Japanese who play "western" musical instruments, and conduct orchestras of western music. Look at the clothes they wear. Obviously, it's because there's been a massive migration to Japan from the west. Yes?

Here we go again...pre-history anthrofora style.
 
I have taken an introductory class of history of art. There we learned that the oldest Greek sculpture ever found is a copy of the Egyptian sculpture which are a lot older than Greek sculptures. Egyptians of antiquity believed that the spirit of a dead person needed a place to rest so they constructed sculptures. How did that first sculpture ended up in Greece? Either Greeks imported it from Egypt or Egyptians were broadening their in-habitat and brought with them their believes and art. So if the reconstruction of the face is accurate means that Egyptians migrated to present day Greece. The Egyptian haplogroups are also present in Greece. Greeks are a collection of Mediterranean people fused together by intermingling. To me the face looks Egyptian.

What's its date? Do you have a photo?

Α migration from 'Egypt' to Greece is consistent with the Greek myths (Danaids etc). The original meaning of the term Αίγυπτος could have been 'Southern land'* so it could have included Levant or part of it. That migration, if it really happened, may have been prehistorical, though. But if we take the myth literally (which is wrong) and assume that those who according to the myths migrated from Egypt, from Phoenicia (Cadmus) etc were non-IE, IE would have existed already there and the 'invaders' would have been language shifters.

*Many ancient terms were too broad even in Classical times, for example the term Ethiopians, used both for Black Africans (darker than Egyptians who were dark too) and some people in India (Dravidians?)
Other terms like Hyperboreans were first used for people roughly in the region of Thrace, then Herodotus placed them (imo) somewhere in NorthEast Eurasia etc In Middle Ages the meaning changed again.
So if we assume that the myths have an historical nucleus (which I generally accept), we should have in mind that the terms were used inconsistently, in pre-Classical times especially.

By the way, Egyptians would have been significantly darker than this reconstructed face most likely.
 
I would say let's not spend too much time arguing about pigmentation. For all we know the choice of colours was based on a small ancient painting found in a 3500 year old grave, as well as on the opinion of the American archaeologists working on the site. It may not be 100% accurate.
What is more important is the cranial features' reconstruction, which is usually more reliable with today's tech.
 
For example look at this Greek guy. Beside this guy looking a little bid more broader headed and actually therefore being more "northern" shifted how some might call it.

His hair texture, coloring etc look very like the Griffin guy.

Costa-Cordalis_3189.jpg

I confirmate your points but I dont agree with the final conclusion I would say - close to, the almost like... or he wish to be like... (as it concerns of the reconstruction of the "Griffin" only and not what the 'Myceneans" probably looked like).
Stay close will need your opinion...
 
What's its date? Do you have a photo?

Α migration from 'Egypt' to Greece is consistent with the Greek myths (Danaids etc). The original meaning of the term Αίγυπτος could have been 'Southern land'* so it could have included Levant or part of it. That migration, if it really happened, may have been prehistorical, though. But if we take the myth literally (which is wrong) and assume that those who according to the myths migrated from Egypt, from Phoenicia (Cadmus) etc were non-IE, IE would have existed already there and the 'invaders' would have been language shifters.

*Many ancient terms were too broad even in Classical times, for example the term Ethiopians, used both for Black Africans (darker than Egyptians who were dark too) and some people in India (Dravidians?)
Other terms like Hyperboreans were first used for people roughly in the region of Thrace, then Herodotus placed them (imo) somewhere in NorthEast Eurasia etc In Middle Ages the meaning changed again.
So if we assume that the myths have an historical nucleus (which I generally accept), we should have in mind that the terms were used inconsistently, in pre-Classical times especially.

By the way, Egyptians would have been significantly darker than this reconstructed face most likely.

I have the book on my knees. Aeschylus i mean.

..." έτσι και εγώ με πένθιμους

σκοπούς ιωνικούς τα μελαμψά ξεσκίζω τρυφερά μάγουλα μου και την αμάθητη καρδιά μου πνίγω στα δάκρυα"...
 

Sorry @kostop that could be the last one....
After deep concern, I carefully pick these:



index.php

Saracatsan probably Thessaly.
http://www.stavraetos.gr/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=orig&id=275&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=64


2c-cleveland-museum-of-art.jpeg

Minoan
https://www.boundless.com/art-history/textbooks/boundless-art-history-textbook/art-of-the-aegean-civilizations-5/minoan-art-60/minoan-sculpture-323-11062/




caption.jpg
images
5407411712_708ccd4bfd_z.jpg
6093716142_1c8c32e7a4_o.jpg

from here


10740227084_154a718410_o.png


from Thera. Artemis with a griffin ! (Amazing !)
Here


Cycladic/Minoan/Myceanean people occasionally acted as well as pirates. Centuries later Samians and Athenians well pattern their methods.
What could derrify them-mostly- is social/political/economical differences, what kind of forces caused that changes we can debate it, but we -allready- have a taste from the several collonization periods progressed later afterall.

@kostop @Alan @Moesan @Angela, to@all, I have someone for the mask... to continue?
 
Beautiful then and now. :)

Why not? Is it the so called "mask of Agamemnon"?
 
A Mycenean Angela ( on action pointing forum members! )


Image.ashx

I will come back my lady, mother and gueen, defend our city walls from the acorn-eaters...

 
For example look at this Greek guy. Beside this guy looking a little bid more broader headed and actually therefore being more "northern" shifted how some might call it.

His hair texture, coloring etc look very like the Griffin guy.

Costa-Cordalis_3189.jpg

he is to pale, otherwise, I'd say he is a gipsy
 
For example look at this Greek guy. Beside this guy looking a little bid more broader headed and actually therefore being more "northern" shifted how some might call it.

His hair texture, coloring etc look very like the Griffin guy.

Costa-Cordalis_3189.jpg

He's going the same with the L'Oreal brand. According putting dark brown, but the first few weeks is too black, if you take medium brown in the sun the red hair looks, I think the best option is to mix dark brown, or what L'Oreal meant by dark brown and medium brown mixed with perhaps 25% or at most half of the latter. It is to find the most natural possible result,
 
he is to pale, otherwise, I'd say he is a gipsy

Well, given that the majority of the ancestry of some of them has been picked up in West Asia and the Balkans, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some overlap. That isn't the first thing I would think looking at him, however.

I sometimes think that gypsies are so despised that people don't really look at them. There are a lot of them in Italy nowadays, but I saw infinitely more just on a few short stays in Romania. What actually struck me the most about them, in particular, was the diversity in their looks. There were blondes, very Balkan looking people, as well as quite Indian looking people, even after all this time. The Indian looking ones didn't look like the picture above; they usually had an oval face, or a heart shaped face, and more "soft" features altogether, as do a lot of lower caste Indians, imo. Maybe that was just coincidence, though, I don't know. Gypsy genetics varies by country, so maybe appearance does as well.

www.livescience.com/images/i/000/058/361/original/roma.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&downsize=*:1000

Slovak-Roma-Communities.jpg


@Carlos,
That's what I thought about the hair color, too. Looks just like either L'Oreal black, or dark brown in the first week after application. Been there, done that: my husband liked me with very dark hair. :) Now I please myself more!

@ΠΑΝΑ

Now there's a woman after my own heart. I once had Minerva as my avatar, helmet, spear, shield and all. :)
 
If you're a resident of a place other than Switzerland, which is what your profile shows, and the UAE is definitely not Switzerland, then you're in violation of the rules and you'll get an infraction. What is wrong with you people? It's a simple rule to try to cut down on people hiding their real ethnicity, for who knows what reason.

I don't care how many people you see of how many nationalities, facial pattern recognition is obviously not your forte. Oh, and keep a civil tongue in your head while you're at it.
Im a Swiss resident and I do travel a lot for work, which is smth u don't have to do in ur forum moderator career.

And residency doesn't equal ethnicity as I'm a Swiss national and an ethnic Albanian, which is smth I've never hidden.

Actually facial pattern recognition has always been my forte and ur opinion is so worthless I don't understand why u even bother to express it instead of contributing to the topic.

I hope giving me meaningless infractions makes u feel accomplished in life.

Back on topic, not a single person posted represents Griffins phenotype, which like I said has been mostly gracialized through mixing and its characteristics appear randomly on some Greeks but never as a full set. But never say never, perhaps there's still someone out there that we haven't seen yet.
 
he is to pale, otherwise, I'd say he is a gipsy

I think it is fair deal if you consider that the etymon/root is from word -Egypt; so in short terms they looked like for the locals as Egyptians!.
Egyptians>>gr.Γύφτος/ eng.gypsy. etc
You have also in your language the "gitane"; the etymon/mean is -"untouched" -Aθίγγανος.
but
Name him Rom, If is Greek too, why not to consider him as "Indoeuropean".
 
ok

how about him,
he is very old, but he be the twin brother of reconstruction?

ImageHandler.ashx



psinakis.jpg
 

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