Facial Reconstruction of Mycaenean era (c.1500 BC) nobleman from ancient Greece

he is to pale, otherwise, I'd say he is a gipsy

there 2 majors tribes of gipsies,

we use to call them palco, and ursa,
the ones who dance
the ones who do dance the bear,

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one 'tribe' is just like Siberian people, like Northern Europeans,
with big round heads, and 'fat' round nose.
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the other, 'tribe' who dance have a very long head, and long narrow nose,
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now can you tell me which is the true Roma?


lately in Greece came new tribes of Roma,
Blond, red hair, and some strange who have great fortune, that can buy your village,

look at the pictures
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WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT ROMA ARE DARK?
BOTH GIRLS ARE GENUINE ROMA.
and especially the second, Maria is her name, could easily pass as true, noble German Russian Baltic Scandinavian etc,
her case schocked Greece for months,
sold for adaptation from Bulgaria to Greece,
her mother pass the borders to give her birth who knows where in Greece,
the couple who wanted the child regreat for the girl had a problem with eyes,
and sold to the same tribe Roma, another family in Greece, for a few Euros,
and when she become 4 years old, genetic tests show and point her physical mother at Bulgarian gypsies


PS
anyway,
we learn to discribe Roma as Gupta Γυφτοι, and Gitanes τσιγγανοι,
but the ones who enter a liitle bit more, and gain their trust,
they classify them according their Saint protector,
St Gregory
St Barbara
Αγια Παρασκευη St Friday, the blond saint,
or if their are Muslims, according their inner secta/tribe name and nationality,
like Nakish, Hammids Marcouc (c=ts) etc

and if we wanted to classify this 2 Roma ladies,
where we would put them?
DSC04360.jpg


I am sure they look very Alpine race, especially the one at left
 
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Sorry @kostop that could be the last one....
After deep concern, I carefully pick these:



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Saracatsan probably Thessaly.
http://www.stavraetos.gr/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=orig&id=275&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=64


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Minoan
https://www.boundless.com/art-history/textbooks/boundless-art-history-textbook/art-of-the-aegean-civilizations-5/minoan-art-60/minoan-sculpture-323-11062/




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from here


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from Thera. Artemis with a griffin ! (Amazing !)
Here


Cycladic/Minoan/Myceanean people occasionally acted as well as pirates. Centuries later Samians and Athenians well pattern their methods.
What could derrify them-mostly- is social/political/economical differences, what kind of forces caused that changes we can debate it, but we -allready- have a taste from the several collonization periods progressed later afterall.

@kostop @Alan @Moesan @Angela, to@all, I have someone for the mask... to continue?

Off topic.
ΠΑΝΑΞ, there is in North Albania an dress similar to the Minoan, is called Xhubleta: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xhubleta
It`s an unique dress, very old, nobody know how old is it, full with deetails and many ornaments:
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ExNX6Rb.jpg

xhubleta.004-malesi-e-madhe.jpg



But there is an curiosity. A similar dress can be found in France. This is the french dress:

St+Sorlin+by+Klein.jpg



And guess how is called this place in France? Arvan valley, Savoy, France
 
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:LOL:
ok

how about him,
he is very old, but he be the twin brother of reconstruction?

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LOL, this man is Elias Psinakis and he has had more plastic surgeries than Dolly Parton :LOL:. I'm not sure if anyone (including him) remembers what his face originally looked like. Future anthropologists will certainly be baffled.
 
There was something interesting on the internet this morning. The news was that Marco Polo was not the first European to contact Chinese. Greeks had met them 1500 years before Marco and Chinese terracotta were work of Greek teachers. I had not time to read the whole thing but if true that is interesting.
 
@Dupidh
Believe it ,-or not, when I first confronted with that chinese army from a previous approach (before millenium.early 90's;) from Nat. Geographic; If remember well, I thought instictively -"Hey that tastes somehow... hellenic craftmanship." But I never told to nobody that... and even today I am still today retarding to cheer for that (in front of you! -Ωπα!!!) It was too risky and still is, you know...
Hold to listen for the second one.
When I saw Psinakis at Yetos post, I thinked that looks like maybe possibly an Venezian Donge or someone like a merchant or an elder Marco Polo etc. :unsure:(coincidence !) He was -and still is- very good looking especially when he was young but is not even close to the griffin reconstruction. Not enough of that special Aegean blend but not foreigner.


Nice you mentioned about for your studies of art. I would say -if is possible;- to mail your teachers some of the discussion here, and offer us an opinion for the subject of (i)reconstruction, and for(ii)Griffin reconstruct, as well also for how(iii) Myceanean could probably look like.
The last one is optional especially for someone never stepped to the ground (greece), but that would be still interesting.


Yes there also shrines and a temple; of Isis in Attica close to temple of Artemis Vravrona, as well near at Nemesis of Ramnous. Yes there is a great imput of Egypt in all manifestations of Life in the wide region and especially greece.
 
@ Laberia, my vela.
I well know -in deep meaning-, your stock. I have an "adolescent alexander" from an Arvanitan lady!
I really enjoy your post, I can not say much about the dress, but I sensed from the first strike, some Adriatic breeze...
(You can fool me but not today!) :cool-v:
Your post is interesting, cause of the real women of that picture and not the dresses -which i don't discard at all- It is well indicative for some reasons.
(a question)
Which from the two Women you consider more -how to say;- more primitive, more local for the region at Bronze Age/late Neolithic as we discussed?
I would like to know what you feel, not what you just know as a possible information.
-You are from the region.
 
(pictures)
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Yes the most close to the gualities of the griffin is the granny who holding the baby.
The middle one is more close to an Adriatic; stock.
The granny at left is close also -to griffin- with a big chunk as well to that tall dinaric people (big ears, big nose, with a more prominent jaw could look like enough pure for the specifigue people- I had the feeling generally that they are long living persons)
Both three women are very indicative for modern greeks -΅Well make them three and a half... ok four is fine



 


Woa! Big guys big picture, your attention please and your comments.

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At left a Med/Dinar; at right a Dinar/Med; beetween them somewhere is the griffin reconstruction (to clear my points)
the left with more Aegean bulby eyes, the right with sharp small eyes more close to northern/western folks. (Unfortunately not at that picture so recognizable)
Both today Greeks


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Myceneans
;
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Minoan;


 
there 2 majors tribes of gipsies,


I am sure they look very Alpine race, especially the one at left

I'm not sure we are still in the thread now; not sure of what you want to say; but I cannot leave wrong namings to go araound all the time;
NO, these women are not 'alpine', even less the LEFT one! round cheeks are not enough to make an 'alpine': an important element is brachycephally, absent here, and it is not enough; I cannot illustrate the diverse classical types but I see people on fora don' know what they are (were) as a whole;
and I'm tired by all these cherry-picking pictures of EXCEPTIONAL TYPES among ethnies, eternal blond Mongols or Roma or... or black Vikings and so on.
The diverse nomadic groups as Gypsies, Roma, Tsyganes, Bohemians had surely origins in India, and so were of dark types at first as a whole (except some seldom cases), but they were a bit mixed since the departure and they SLOWLY mixed with other pops on their way, spite this mixture was very slow and tiny, I think. the diverse groups crossed different lands so differences between them due to different crossings and DRIFT, this last cause beeing perhaps the strongest one.
concerning cherry picking photos, don't take my remark personally, YETOS, because you are not among the "specialists" of the method; in fact I like photos, it's their interpretations outside statistics which upset me sometime.
No offense
 
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Ι am heading for griffin chase...An apperitif for starters...
meanwhile, If someone have any "numbers;" I will appreciate to put it on the table, if not, just trust to your senses.
because except numbers and words we need that unigue feel, the blend, the atmosphere...


(photos)
head-of-leonidas.jpg
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aaaaaaaaaa

Typical dillusion,
anyway, the athlete G.Spanoulis from Olympiacos (team), Med/din/alp.


That dont means that Leonidas is fan of Olympiacos or Spanoulis is a Spartan, allthough Leonidas looked pleased with the red font at his back!
Can we recognize that "stuff" under that helmet? -I say yes.
It is a deep and true feeling, name to know it; I dont,
It is the ''move'' of the broked stature -what an irony- silently confirm us with his smile.


That couple could be presented as a fine example of an almost "perfect match". but not me, I extract only the blend of the "smells" of it.
I dont have political agenda, neither deep knowledge about genetics, I enjoy History, Music, Architects...etc


(Slightly irrelevant couple -Leonidas/athlete at the photos above.-, for the Myceanan stock we are on search; as depicted at the digital reconstruction of Griffin, from university of Yohanesburg based on the facts and findings from the excavation at Pylos from university of Cincinatti.)



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(photos)

To clear that from the beggining there is nothing 100% in all our theorizations not even from the people which working to the project... it is just an approach.

These are more close to the ''stock'' but not necessary to the griffin's -digital- depiction below.

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A blend of types:

Z
Griffin /Med;

9k=
Griffin Din/Arm;

Z
Griffin Alpi/Med;

Z
Griffin Med/Arm;

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Griffin Med/Dinar;

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Griffins uncle.
 
ppffff... Something went wrong with the photos
 
.
.yawyna continue

andreasgeorgiou04122013.jpg
(opa! opa! opa!) No, he is to delicate but close. Anatolian/levantine/Aegean





this one?
printezis.medium.jpg

He is slightly close, But mostly Med flavoured.
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Comments please.
If someone correct me,one free souvlaki at Athens, at August.

(sshh...always leaving for vacations at August -hehehe-... never trust the Greeks!)


 
I'm not sure we are still in the thread now; not sure of what you want to say; but I cannot leave wrong namings to go araound all the time;
NO, these women are not 'alpine', even less the LEFT one! round cheeks are not enough to make an 'alpine': an important element is brachycephally, absent here, and it is not enough; I cannot illustrate the diverse classical types but I see people on fora don' know what they are (were) as a whole;
and I'm tired by all these cherry-picking pictures of EXCEPTIONAL TYPES among ethnies, eternal blond Mongols or Roma or... or black Vikings and so on.
The diverse nomadic groups as Gypsies, Roma, Tsyganes, Bohemians had surely origins in India, and so were of dark types at first as a whole (except some seldom cases), but they were a bit mixed since the departure and they SLOWLY mixed with other pops on their way, spite this mixture was very slow and tiny, I think. the diverse groups crossed different lands so differences between them due to different crossings and DRIFT, this last cause beeing perhaps the strongest one.
concerning cherry picking photos, don't take my remark personally, YETOS, because you are not among the "specialists" of the method; in fact I like photos, it's their interpretations outside statistics which upset me sometime.
No offense


Theoritically even today most people believe, even in their tribes, that they came from Egypt, (E-Gyptians, Αι-Γυπτοι)
as the S Albanian Roma tribe,
but as you said it has been proved that their genes show India (H)

but not above Istros (Dunav),
this other tribe has nothing to do with India, but with Mongol invasions, straight to heart of Europe
the most typical difference is in Bulgaria, where Gypsies of one area, have nothing in common with gypsies of other area, like Stara Zagora and Haskovo
Besides even their language is different,
there are 2 languages among Roma populations, no matter religion,

you ask Roma people about that, how many major tribes and languages they have,
if you do not trust the photo I 'cherry-picked'
from 1980's there is an eternal effort by authorities in Greece to asimilate Roma in modern way of life,
there are results in many areas but poor to the volume effort.
and even today at Athens they are divided to 2 major settlements, and have nothing among them,
I told you search their saints, or their tribe name,
DID you?
No simply you repeat the known case of Indian genes that exist at south of Dunav Roma,
the just known, but if I ask why a tribe of gypsies of Romania or Russia or Greece etc have white skin, and mongol characteristics?
then I just cherry-pick,
that is because the stereotype in our mind for Roma is 'sticked' with only the one tribe, and one colour,


I agree we went away thread.
But Dark skin have not only Africa and India
 
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Someone mention about exotic-s. Thats the pretty common portion stock of today people of Greece. It dont reguire big search, the elements are in front of us


Anyway, I promised a candidate for the, so called Agamemnon Mask.
And that would be the risky one... :LOL:
 

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Your cards gentlemen!

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Slightly offtopic.. some years ago were reconstructed other faces of Mycenaean nobles, the woman looks central or eastern European to me, but i could well be wrong

mycenaeans.jpg
 

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