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I heard on some internet forums that the inhabitants of North Africa are white because of other haplogroups present in their blood as I, R and J, and not because of haplogroup E1b1b. It's true?
I am amateur in this science but what I have read from the debates here, in Eupedia, is that, major factor in someones race is MtDna. Ydna represent 2% of ones Dna and it does not effect someones race, but it does effect the appearance like height and other physical traits. Example Russians and Indians are majority R1a but they are no way near racially. Or there are R1b people in subSaharan Africa but their are not even slightly white, nor they look like Germans who are majority R1b. North Africans are Caucasian which is wider term than white. If a North African goes to England he or she would not be considered white but wog, whatever that means, or if they go to USA they will be considered Meddle Eastern which is another term for not white.Originally Posted by andresasj
Hello andresasj. How are you keeping? :). Nobody talks anymore with I,R,J,G,E and so on these days. The are all split in scores of subgroups separated with thousands of years, surprising origins and incredible journeys, different modes of survival and some breeding with Neanderthals adopting to extreme environments and surviving on different food sources. Do not rely on debates on forums for your education but read more solid evidence. Its complicated and can be over whelming. Nothing about Human journeys can be explained in a few sentences. ;)
MtDna is also a very small part of someone's total dna. Both mtDna and yDna represent only one person each out of one's ancestors. Autosomal dna is much more informative.
The average North African is about 15-20% SSA. However, that's an average. There are some North Africans, usually from isolated groups, who have less than that, and some, particularly from southern regions, who have more.
Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità . Oriana Fallaci
You Do not Understand What do I said. When I mentioned the haplogroups I also included the subhaplogroupos them and not only H, I, J pure. OK?
What is your definition of 'black'? The Natufians, who are the most likely ancestors of European E1b1b, definitely had very dark skin.
Good question--it proves that "race," which is a social construct and not a biological one, has no place in science.
The early Europeans that belonged to haplogroup I had also dark skin. It was most probably the same case with R while it was still in the Middle East, and of course J.
OKay
Indeed Nik. And the lighter pigmentation seems only to start taking effect some 10,000 /15,000 years ago, some contributed to lack of sun (weather and clothing) others to Vitamin D depleted diets some think its both. It seems that these changes happen on anyone with any haplogroup (or more importantly as Angela stated.....general Autosmal) depending on climatic and diet.
E1B1B1 is of Levant origin, E1B1A is East African. These 2 haplogroups cover ancient Israelites
I see KingSlav is back teaching us about population genetics again.
Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.
There is few good docs on youtube with regards to this topic.
E1b1b is quite prevalent in Morocco (more than 80%), but typical Moroccans are brown-skinned, with some individuals having darker or lighter skin. I don't think the skin tone or color has much or anything to do with Y-haplogroups.
Again, there are a few of us Moroccans (or North Africans in general) who could easily blend among Europeans. You will find individuals with very light skin, hair and eye color, especially among some descendants of Moriscos who were expelled from Iberia (many of which settled in the city of Fes), and in the North of Morocco among Rif Amazigh/Berber people.
But the typical Moroccan/North African is brown-skinned as I said, and might pass for a Middle Eastern (though if you pay enough attention, you could more or less easily distinguish the facial features of North Africans from those of Middle Easterners, especially inhabitants of Arabia). I've been assumed to be Latin American or Indian by many people though.
Skin color is a part of the picture but features are what is in question. N. Africans, especially ancient ones are classified as caucasoid not negroid. Although tis is apparently still hotly debated.
I think we're going to discover, as with the ancient Egyptians, that the majority of the SSA is since the Arab conquest and the subsequent slave trade, although there may be a few percent present in the older samples.
Yes andresasj it's true, during early neolithic they mixed with J in Levant and became racially Levantine, then under very strange circumstances thogather with J they migrated to Balkans nobody knows how? so more research is needed to get migratory maps and time!
E1b1b's gradient in the maps shows in Levant its 24% in Palestine, 17% Lebanon, 14% Syria, 10% Turkey so it should have been say 4% in extreme southern greece NATURALLY, but instead it jumps to 24% and yes I know! different subclades are responsible in different regions but it does not explain why there's more in Balkans than in Turkey. Migrators of E1b1b must have passed all those regions(Levant) in order to get to Europe ,which seems very implausable because of settled tribes in Levant would have not let them to bypass their countries so its very mysterious.
There's that thing called the founder effect, it explains the high percentage of E1b1b in the Balcan, also we can't rely on percentages of a specific haplogroup in a region because it change with migration of other haplogroups to the same region.
E1b1b in Europe is 90% of the European E-V13, while in the Middle East it is a completely different kind E-M123 and E-V22 and in North Africa is E-M81 and E1b is not Black not even a bit, E1a is( if it had anything to do with skin) :) Male haplogroup has nothing to do at all with the way you look, you could be B and look like Son of Odin or I1 and look like well like the rapper Nas ( he is I1 BTW) :)
You're exactly right, so I don't know why anyone would even be bringing this up at this late date.
If i suspect my uncle is E1b1b and want to find out. would i be better off going with 23andme or FTDNA ?
hes on ancestry.com only thus far. Or is there a better company for east african DNA ?
Thanks
Is your uncle from Africa, or his ancestors within 6 generations? Remember that Y DNA is only 2% of whole DNA. Plus, E1b1b is not necessarily African in origin, it's been found in Near East 16 kya in Natufian culture of first farmers. Before that we can only speculate.
E1b1b can be light skin, blond and with blue or green eyes, or black skin with curly hair, it is said to be 2% of DNA but has a very determining characteristic its permanence in time in the patrilineal part, something similar happens with the mitochondrial DNA in the matrilineal part, it is that simple and I think that more solid than the labeling movement of the autosomic DNA easily manipulable, time will tell.
There is also a taboo with North Africa, despite the fact that there are important cultural differences, for example in Morocco was bell-shaped culture, belonged to the Roman Empire, had Germanic invasions, is 13 km from the Iberian peninsula, I do not say that it belongs or not to Europe, but that they are close and should not be taboo.
Indeed, with the importance of the bell-shaped culture that is practically said to have been the diffuser of the Indo-European languages, little is said in these forums of this bell-shaped culture in northern Africa, although only as a culture and not as a genetic influence, that that only occurred in the center and north of Europe, as we are told.
Y-DNA and mtDNA have nothing to do with your physical appearance. That is dictated by your autosomal DNA.
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