E1b1b is black?

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This thread remind
Me the days of the stupid site
Apricity....
Is e1b1b1 caucasoid white ?
Lol😅
E1b1b and e1b1a splitt long time
Ago ...
And than e1b1b1 splitt even farther
To other branches... e- m78
and e-m123 and e-m81...
But yes the point of start of E1b1b
Was in ethiopia horn area....
P.s
It is very likely that the E tribes spread in west
And south africa
They reduced the number of the paleo-african haplogroups : A and B
Today we see them in pockets 🤔

It doesn't matter given how old E is. I'm just curious if the split between E1b1b and e1b1a predates the split between Africans and Eurasians (basal?). I'm curious what haplogroup basal eurasian belonged to.
 
It doesn't matter given how old E is. I'm just curious if the split between E1b1b and e1b1a predates the split between Africans and Eurasians (basal?). I'm curious what haplogroup basal eurasian belonged to.
I think no one realy knows
Not davidski( which is intrested more in the steppe)
And not even researcher lazaridis... :unsure:
P.s
Like you i hope to know soon :)
 
I think no one realy knows
Not davidski( which is intrested more in the steppe)
And not even researcher lazaridis... :unsure:
P.s
Like you i hope to know soon :)

E is the only lineage that makes sense as basal eurasian but I would wonder then how basal got into the Caucasus and Iran.
 
E is the only lineage that makes sense as basal eurasian but I would wonder then how basal got into the Caucasus and Iran.
What about some form of y haplogroup j ?
It was found in chg also in iran neolithic and iran mesolitic....
That could explain the basal ancestery in caucasus....:unsure:
and j could spread this ancestery to north africa by some back migration...:unsure:
 
It's neither black, but neither white. E1b1b is strictly tied to ANA which was a component quite different from SSA and quite different from Eurasian. We have anthropological data from people who had excessive ANA and looked very different from SSA. They were taller on average than both SSA and Eurasians, and more robust.
 
What about some form of y haplogroup j ?
It was found in chg also in iran neolithic and iran mesolitic....
That could explain the basal ancestery in caucasus....:unsure:
and j could spread this ancestery to north africa by some back migration...:unsure:

I don't know. IJ seems like the most West Eurasian haplogroup there.
 
It's neither black, but neither white. E1b1b is strictly tied to ANA which was a component quite different from SSA and quite different from Eurasian. We have anthropological data from people who had excessive ANA and looked very different from SSA. They were taller on average than both SSA and Eurasians, and more robust.

That's very interesting. Do ANA form a clade with either SSA or Eurasians(Basal or otherwise)? You have a link to the anthropological data? Were the Iberomasurians ANA+West Eurasian then? Interesting that that's not how I would describe North Africans at all.
 
Every people is black. black is not race but represent african(mostly south and central) ancestry more recently.
 
It is very likely that the E tribes spread in west
And south africa
They reduced the number of the paleo-african haplogroups : A and B
Today we see them in pockets ������

Why do you think so? The fact E split from D, found virtually exclusively in Eurasia, and some basal E1b1b and E1b1a are found in small frequencies in East Africa, I always thought an origin in East Africa or at the furthest South-East Africa was more likely.
 
That's very interesting. Do ANA form a clade with either SSA or Eurasians(Basal or otherwise)? You have a link to the anthropological data? Were the Iberomasurians ANA+West Eurasian then? Interesting that that's not how I would describe North Africans at all.

IIRC the best model of Iberomaurusians done by Lazaridis et all. in the Dzudzuana Cave paper indicated that ANA split from most SSA (I assume apart from Mbuti-related and Khoisan-related peoples, of course) after the non-African split, but before the further splits of the African part of humankind that remained in the continent. So, it was closer to SSA, but not by much.

Modern North Africans have only a minority of Iberomaurusian-related admixture: very little in Egypt and Libya, and generally ~15-35% in the Maghreb (those who have the most of it are some Moroccan Berbers, like those of Tiznit, and the Saharawi). Maghrebis also have a lot of Anatolian Neolithic Farmer (ANF) like Europeans as well as smaller bits of Natufian-related, CHG/Iran_N and SSA ancestry.
 
IIRC the best model of Iberomaurusians done by Lazaridis et all. in the Dzudzuana Cave paper indicated that ANA split from most SSA (I assume apart from Mbuti-related and Khoisan-related peoples, of course) after the non-African split, but before the further splits of the African part of humankind that remained in the continent. So, it was closer to SSA, but not by much.

Modern North Africans have only a minority of Iberomaurusian-related admixture: very little in Egypt and Libya, and generally ~15-35% in the Maghreb (those who have the most of it are some Moroccan Berbers, like those of Tiznit, and the Saharawi). Maghrebis also have a lot of Anatolian Neolithic Farmer (ANF) like Europeans as well as smaller bits of Natufian-related, CHG/Iran_N and SSA ancestry.

Ygor, i think you are wrong. This is the tree from Dzudzuana paper, and ANA, Basal Eurasian and Crown Eurasian split from a common ancestor, ANA being the first to split then Basal Eurasian and Crown Eurasian.

mgK6wM5.jpg
 
Why do you think so? The fact E split from D, found virtually exclusively in Eurasia, and some basal E1b1b and E1b1a are found in small frequencies in East Africa, I always thought an origin in East Africa or at the furthest South-East Africa was more likely.


It didn't splitt from D it share
Common ancestor with D
The common ancestor called DE ....

anyway E probably originated in africa
And more specific e1b1b1 probably in the horn of africa ethiopia/somalia

P.s
No one know for sure where...
 
IIRC the best model of Iberomaurusians done by Lazaridis et all. in the Dzudzuana Cave paper indicated that ANA split from most SSA (I assume apart from Mbuti-related and Khoisan-related peoples, of course) after the non-African split, but before the further splits of the African part of humankind that remained in the continent. So, it was closer to SSA, but not by much.

Modern North Africans have only a minority of Iberomaurusian-related admixture: very little in Egypt and Libya, and generally ~15-35% in the Maghreb (those who have the most of it are some Moroccan Berbers, like those of Tiznit, and the Saharawi). Maghrebis also have a lot of Anatolian Neolithic Farmer (ANF) like Europeans as well as smaller bits of Natufian-related, CHG/Iran_N and SSA ancestry.

Are Iberomasurians fully ANA?
 
Ygor, i think you are wrong. This is the tree from Dzudzuana paper, and ANA, Basal Eurasian and Crown Eurasian split from a common ancestor, ANA being the first to split then Basal Eurasian and Crown Eurasian.

mgK6wM5.jpg


That would make it closer to Eurasians.
 
That would make it closer to Eurasians.

But they were different. This sample is a Paleolithic/Mesolithic Hunter Gatherer from Egypt. He was quite robust like the Iberomaurusians, so i think his Y-DNA might be E-M35/E-M78 and probably his autosomal hypothetically would be mostly ANA.

th38jVK.jpg
 
The ancestor of E1b1b is E1b1 that very likely came from the Horn of Africa/Ethiopia but it could be very well from North Africa, the Middle east, Arabia. Plus the haplogroup alone doesn‘t tell the whole story about the ethnicity or race. E is a very archaic hp that emerged aorund the time of the Out of Africa migration where the different races were not developed yet. So is futile to pinpoint or attribute the base hp E to any specific region or population/ethnicity.The subclade sometimes correlates with ethnicity, though and therefore give us valuable hints about the ethnicity of certain people/population. Furthermore, the genes of the original carriers of a

certain haplogroup can be diluted or breed out to the point where they disappear from the gene pool of the descendants that still carry the hp. Therefore, you can have technically an Eurasian or African hp while totally lacking the Eurasian or African component. With that being said most carriers of E1b1b are indeed either fully Caucasiod or part Eurasian.

 
Autosomico changes with the weather.

At first we were all black.

Here‘s the thing even old school anthropologists never determined race by skin color alone, but by the combination of skull shape, facial features, bone structure, hair texture, teeth, etc. It‘s the liberal leftists who claim that race is only skin deep and that pretend that the difference between the races is only the color of the skin and nothing else. Besides, dark skin doesn‘t equal black Africans by default. For instance, Natufians that carrierd the hp E1b1b l were like the WHGs Western Eurasian aka Caucasiods. I don‘t know whether scientists performed the phenotypic analyses on Natufians to predict their skin colour. However, I assume that they lacked the genes for light skin of MODERN Europeans. So it can be concluded that the Natufians like theWHGs were likely dark. How exalty dark the Natufians or WHGs were the scientists can‘t really predict. Keep in mind that a slightly tanned, light brown, yellowish skin tone is compared to the white skin of modern Europeans, already dark skin. We have also to take into account that an archaic population like the Natufians or WHGs could have carried other unknown genes that produce light skin too. By the way, the term "black" or "black people" is a pretty useless term when dealing with genetics.
 
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