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Thread: How "Slavic" are South Slavs?

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    Question How "Slavic" are South Slavs?

    And how would it be quantified? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosnian Boss View Post
    And how would it be quantified? Thanks
    Try looking for older threads on the subject. It's been discussed many times.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosnian Boss View Post
    And how would it be quantified? Thanks
    I learned one day that a Russian women gave birth to something like 70 kids, with all surviving but two. She never had a single child. Maybe we need another thread but I think the reason that Slavs are so numerous is because their women are exceptionally fertile? They have of course absorbed many ethnicity's but still DNA shows that they are predominantly R1a, I2a,with N1c in minority

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    I learned one day that a Russian women gave birth to something like 70 kids, with all surviving but two. She never had a single child. Maybe we need another thread but I think the reason that Slavs are so numerous is because their women are exceptionally fertile? They have of course absorbed many ethnicity's but still DNA shows that they are predominantly R1a, I2a,with N1c in minority
    Albanians must have caught that fertility bug from their Slavic neighbours I guess. Petty modern Slavs are not so fertile....

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    I have. Nothing has been conclusive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosnian Boss View Post
    How "Slavic" are South Slavs? And how would it be quantified? Thanks
    About 40%. Just like good Vodka. But being Slavic is not about your genes bro, it's all about your car:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/NocturnoPlays/videos


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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Maybe we need another thread but I think the reason that Slavs are so numerous is because their women are exceptionally fertile?
    Yes, but there are many more reasons as well - including the secrets of traditional Slavonic medicine:


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    As Slavic as they come, since Slavs are not a completely homogenous family.

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    It can't be quantified really, whatever people on the Internet say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    It can't be quantified really, whatever people on the Internet say.
    Not as long as there are no Proto-Slavic ancient DNA samples. But when we get such samples, it will be possible to calculate it.

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    Going by genetic it's impossible to tell. First what do you consider as Slavic?
    Is Slavic a language, identity or a group which has close genetic relatedness?

    In my opinion Slavic as an identity exists first and foremost as there's not much in common in a Serbian and a Russian genetic vise rather cultural ties. A non Slavic Hungarian might be closer in terms of genetic to Northern Slavic speaker groups than Serbs themselves or any other South Slavic ethnicity.

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    Most South Slavs are separated from the rest of the Balto-Slavic populations and form a sparse group of populations with internal differentiation into western (Slovenians, Croatians and Bosnians) and eastern (Macedonians and Bulgarians) regions of the Balkan Peninsula with Serbians placed in-between (Fig 2A and 2B). The mean population pairwise genetic distances for South Slavs (DNei = 0.239 for NRY; FST = 0.0009 for autosomal data) (Tables A,B in S1 File) are comparable or higher to the ones for East Slavs despite the smaller region within the Balkan Peninsula that they occupy. Furthermore, Slovenians lie close to the non-Slavic-speaking Hungarians, whereas eastern South Slavs group is located together with non-Slavic-speaking but geographically neighboring Romanians and, to some extent, with Greeks.
    Both extant Baltic-speaking populations, Latvians and Lithuanians, lie in the vicinity of Finno-Ugric-speaking Estonians according to their Y-chromosome diversity (Fig 2B), whilst in their autosomal variation they are slightly shifted towards the group of East Slavic speakers (Fig 2A). Also, one finds Volga-Finnic Mordvins close to the two Baltic-speaking populations (Fig 2A), potentially reflecting historic evidence that the Baltic-speaking tribes’ spread zone formerly reached more eastward parts of the East European Plain [49,50].

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0135820

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    South Slavs - please post your Eurogenes K15 results. I will add you to my PCA graph:

    http://i.imgur.com/NU4mPiL.png


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    Here are my K15 results
    Population
    North_Sea 17.79
    Atlantic 12.84
    Baltic 22.62
    Eastern_Euro 16.04
    West_Med 12.93
    West_Asian 7.40
    East_Med 7.26
    Red_Sea 1.93
    South_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian 0.96
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.22
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    heres mine

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 16.41
    2 North_Sea 15.22
    3 Baltic 15.14
    4 Atlantic 13.46
    5 West_Med 13.35
    6 Eastern_Euro 12.13
    7 West_Asian 10.23
    8 Red_Sea 2.87
    9 Southeast_Asian 0.92
    10 Siberian 0.28

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Romanian 3.92
    2 Bulgarian 4.31
    3 Serbian 6.2
    4 Greek_Thessaly 9.63
    5 Moldavian 10.54
    6 Greek 10.71
    7 Croatian 12.86
    8 Hungarian 13.38
    9 Austrian 13.81
    10 Tuscan 14.28
    11 Ashkenazi 15.02
    12 Italian_Abruzzo 15.11
    13 Central_Greek 15.56
    14 North_Italian 15.58
    15 East_Sicilian 16.53
    16 West_Sicilian 16.76
    17 East_German 17.71
    18 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.5
    19 South_Polish 19.18
    20 South_Italian 19.23

    i'm macedonian but maybe they dont have enough single population samples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    South Slavs - please post your Eurogenes K15 results. I will add you to my PCA graph:

    http://i.imgur.com/NU4mPiL.png

    Im Albanian. Thought I would post my results to see how I plot on your graph. If that's cool.

    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

    Kit M635564

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_Med 23.68
    2 East_Med 20.92
    3 North_Sea 13.76
    4 Atlantic 13.17
    5 West_Asian 11.34
    6 Baltic 9.34
    7 Eastern_Euro 6.71
    8 Red_Sea 1.09

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Greek_Thessaly 7.03
    2 Greek 8.33
    3 Tuscan 8.8
    4 Central_Greek 10.5
    5 Italian_Abruzzo 10.87
    6 West_Sicilian 11.36
    7 East_Sicilian 11.41
    8 North_Italian 11.72
    9 Bulgarian 12.1
    10 Ashkenazi 12.66
    11 South_Italian 12.81
    12 Romanian 13.77
    13 Serbian 16.2
    14 Italian_Jewish 16.86
    15 Algerian_Jewish 17.93
    16 Portuguese 18.57
    17 Sephardic_Jewish 18.66
    18 Spanish_Galicia 18.83
    19 Spanish_Extremadura 19.08
    20 Spanish_Andalucia 19.42

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 82.1% Greek_Thessaly + 17.9% Sardinian @ 3.87
    2 72.9% Greek_Thessaly + 27.1% North_Italian @ 5.94
    3 83.8% Greek_Thessaly + 16.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.06
    4 82.3% Greek + 17.7% Sardinian @ 6.08
    5 86.2% Greek_Thessaly + 13.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.11
    6 87.1% Greek_Thessaly + 12.9% Southwest_French @ 6.17
    7 90.8% Greek_Thessaly + 9.2% French_Basque @ 6.19
    8 87.3% Greek_Thessaly + 12.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.2
    9 86.4% Greek_Thessaly + 13.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.22
    10 85.9% Greek_Thessaly + 14.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.23
    11 66.2% Greek_Thessaly + 33.8% Tuscan @ 6.28
    12 85.1% Greek_Thessaly + 14.9% Portuguese @ 6.32
    13 85.7% Greek_Thessaly + 14.3% Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.35
    14 86.5% Greek_Thessaly + 13.5% Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.37
    15 86.4% Greek_Thessaly + 13.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 6.38
    16 86.1% Greek_Thessaly + 13.9% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.41
    17 87.8% Greek_Thessaly + 12.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.48
    18 66.7% Greek + 33.3% North_Italian @ 6.84
    19 72.5% Bulgarian + 27.5% Sardinian @ 6.87
    20 93.7% Greek_Thessaly + 6.3% French @ 6.88

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Here are mine K15 results (I'm fully Croat with no recent foreign ancestry )
    North_Sea 19.45
    Atlantic 12.04
    Baltic 22.73
    Eastern_Euro 16.69
    West_Med 11.28
    West_Asian 8.04
    East_Med 6.56
    Red_Sea 0.87
    South_Asian 1.13
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian 1.21
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian -
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan

    Southern Slavs are unique mixture of ancient southestern and northeastern Europeans. Northern Slavs have less admixture than we do.

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    I would think Bosnians would be slav wouldn't they the language is from slavik roots.

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    Hi there, I can give you some information on the topic. I took the ancestry DNA test which compares autosomal SNPs among different ethnic groups. This is different from Y or Mt-DNA comparison which uses a single chromosome or mitochondrial DNA for comparison. It used SNPs on ALL chromosomes to classify groups. My friend who is Russian also took the test so lets go and see the similarities and differences. First her Ancestry result which is from a Russian sample:
    - 97% Eastern European
    -3% Baltic

    Now lets compare that to my Serbian sample:
    -62% Eastern European
    -30% Italian/Greek
    -4% European Jewish
    -4% Caucasian

    From this comparison, we can infer that I share 2/3 of my Autosomal SNPs with the Russian sample. As such, we can infer that my Serbian sample is 2/3 Slavic and 1/3 indegenous Balkan. I was very surprised by the test as I was always told that South Slavs are not slavs when in fact, the SNP comparison clearly shows that we share 2/3 of the SNPs tested with Russians.

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    Here's my K15 (I am Serbian)... It is very close to your Croatian Sample:
    Population
    North_Sea 15.95
    Atlantic 12.28
    Baltic 19.92
    Eastern_Euro 12.74
    West_Med 12.33
    West_Asian 10.21
    East_Med 13.65
    Red_Sea 2.93
    South_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian -
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -

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    Now I can also give you a K15 Comparison between my Serbian sample and my friend's Russian sample. First the Russian sample:

    Population
    North_Sea 19.14
    Atlantic 17.12
    Baltic 34.94
    Eastern_Euro 17.87
    West_Med 3.87
    West_Asian 3.75
    East_Med -
    Red_Sea 0.93
    South_Asian 0.72
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian 1.06
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.59
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -

    Now the Serbian sample:

    Population
    North_Sea 15.95
    Atlantic 12.28
    Baltic 19.92
    Eastern_Euro 12.74
    West_Med 12.33
    West_Asian 10.21
    East_Med 13.65
    Red_Sea 2.93
    South_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian -
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -

    In both cases, the largest part of SNPs come from the Baltic and North Sea groups. Russians have the higher percentages of the Atlantic, Eastern European, Baltic and North Sea groups while Serbs have a Mediterranean admixture. It's safe to say that South Slavs are indeed slavic with some Balkan admixture. However, the slavic genes make up the majority of their genome.

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    Here's my Serbian K15:

    Population
    North_Sea 15.95
    Atlantic 12.28
    Baltic 19.92
    Eastern_Euro 12.74
    West_Med 12.33
    West_Asian 10.21
    East_Med 13.65
    Red_Sea 2.93
    South_Asian -
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian -
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -

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    1 Baltic 21.75
    2 North_Sea 16.1
    3 Atlantic 15.8
    4 Eastern_Euro 13.84
    5 West_Asian 10.79
    6 East_Med 10.51
    7 West_Med 9.94
    8 Sub-Saharan 0.41
    9 Red_Sea 0.28
    10 Oceanian 0.22
    11 Amerindian 0.22
    12 South_Asian 0.11
    13 Northeast_African 0.02

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Moldavian 4.89
    2 Croatian 5.88
    3 Romanian 7.4
    4 Serbian 7.42
    5 Hungarian 8.9
    6 Bulgarian 9.17
    7 Austrian 9.45
    8 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.43
    9 South_Polish 11.63
    10 Ukrainian 12.36
    11 East_German 13.53
    12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.83
    13 Russian_Smolensk 14.02
    14 Polish 14.33
    15 Southwest_Russian 14.61
    16 Belorussian 16.45
    17 Estonian_Polish 16.64
    18 Greek_Thessaly 17.6
    19 Greek 17.92
    20 Kargopol_Russian 18.19

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    Quote Originally Posted by VMRO1893 View Post
    Albanians must have caught that fertility bug from their Slavic neighbours I guess. Petty modern Slavs are not so fertile....
    Neither are most modern Europeans. Especially Germans. That's why they take in so many immigrants.

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    Your Bosnjak sample is very close to my Serbian sample, as is the Croatian sample. I have substantial ancestry originating from Herzegovina. I have a theory that this is the reason why many Serbs, Croats and Bosnjaks share a common language and genetics - much of the population right now within Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia has its origins in East Herzegovina. They repopulated areas which were left vacant by the Turks and brought their language (East Herzegovinian Neo-Stokavian) and gene pool with them.

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