Haplogroup R1A1 in north africa

C

citizen of the world

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Ethnic group
sub saharan-north african and middle eastern
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1A1
mtDNA haplogroup
L2A1C
hi everyone , I need some help to find how R1a1 haplogroup is introduced in Tunisia and north africa in general, this haplogroup is very rare in this region and is its presence must be linked to a people or an event, I'm doing some research on the subject and I found that the best candidates are : vandals who came from eastern Germany and Founded a kingdom in Tunisia, romans, byzantines, arabs and turkish, so if anyone have remarques, historical information or ideas about this subject it will be most welcome.
 
citizen of the world said:
hi everyone , I need some help to find how R1a1 haplogroup is introduced in Tunisia and north africa in general, this haplogroup is very rare in this region and is its presence must be linked to a people or an event, I'm doing some research on the subject and I found that the best candidates are : vandals who came from eastern Germany and Founded a kingdom in Tunisia, romans, byzantines, arabs and turkish, so if anyone have remarques, historical information or ideas about this subject it will be most welcome.
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What R1a subclade do you belong to? The first thing that comes to mind when R1a is in Africa is Vandals. However according to Eupedia's R1a article, R1a-Z93;Indo-Iranian tribes settled in North Africa including East Tunisia.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Indo-Iranian
 
I belong to R1A1-YP1272 but I look for R1A1 haplogroup in general in north africa
 
It would be useful to know your R1a subclade to determine if it is of Germanic or Middle Eastern origin.
 
Maciamo said:
It would be useful to know your R1a subclade to determine if it is of Germanic or Middle Eastern origin.
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It looks like he's in the M459 clade of R1a1.
 
F
citizen of the world said:
I belong to yp1272 a very rare branch of R1a and sister clade of M198, formed 14100 years bp (see yfull tree https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1272/ )
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Interesting, it looks like M198 is equivilent to M17; in the Phylogenetic tree. If yp1272 is a sister clade of M17 would be Mesolithic East European. M198/M17's decendant; R1a-M417 was placed somewhere in the Ukraine or SW Russia before branching out. http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/R1a_migration_map.jpg
R1a_migration_map.jpg





http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map.shtml#mesolithic

I'm being speculative here but it looks like both the Ottoman Empire and the Sarmatians were in the Ukraine/ SW Russia area

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

 
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citizen of the world said:
I belong to yp1272 a very rare branch of R1a and sister clade of M198, formed 14100 years bp (see yfull tree https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1272/ )
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That's a very rare and very old clade indeed. It has been found in Russia, Belarus, Poland, the Czech Republic, Italy and Tunisia. That distribution is definitely not Indo-Iranian, so your patrilinear ancestors would not have come from the Middle East with the Phoenicians or the Arabs, but more likely with the Vandals. The Vandals would have assimilated that lineage in central Europe before bringing it with them to the Maghreb. The fact that it is also found in Italy makes the case even stronger.
 
Maciamo said:
That's a very rare and very old clade indeed. It has been found in Russia, Belarus, Poland, the Czech Republic, Italy and Tunisia. That distribution is definitely not Indo-Iranian, so your patrilinear ancestors would not have come from the Middle East with the Phoenicians or the Arabs, but more likely with the Vandals. The Vandals would have assimilated that lineage in central Europe before bringing it with them to the Maghreb. The fact that it is also found in Italy makes the case even stronger.
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thank you, this is what I also suspected, although according to the genealogy of my family our paternal line is from middle east, also still possible that our ancestor is east or central european or grec soldier who work for the muslim army in middle east then his descendants ended up in Tunisia.
actually the Russian, Belarusian, Polish Czech , Italian and Tunisian ( and maybe cypriot) membres of YP1272 belong to a young subclade named YP1276 their common ancestor lived 2500- 3900 ybp, while an egyptian coptic membre represente the old clad YP1272* with tmrca 7300 ybp
 
..........Another possibility is People carried away (sometimes whole Villages) from Southern Europe during the Aghlabid / Fatmid and Turkish period. The opposite was also true by the way. It was a ping pong game. For hundreds of years coastal areas where not possible to inhabit because of constant raids and was ongoing for hundreds of years. I presume it happened both ways.

First Islamic attacks on Sicily (652–827)[edit]

The first attacks by Islamic ships on Sicily, then part of the Byzantine Empire, occurred in 652 under the Rashidun Caliphate of Uthman. These were Arab mujahideen directed by the Governor of Syria, Muawiyah I, and led by Mu'awiya ibn Hudayj of the Kindah tribe, and they remained[citation needed] on the island for several years. Olympius, the Byzantine exarch of Ravenna, came to Sicily to oust the invaders but failed. Soon after, the Arabs returned to Syria after collecting a sufficiently large amount of booty.
A second Arab expedition to Sicily occurred in 669. This time, a strong, ravaging force consisting of 200 ships from Alexandria attacked the island. They sacked Syracuse, Sicily and returned to Egypt after a month of pillaging. After the Muslim conquest of the Maghreb (completed around 700), attacks from Muslim fleets repeated in 703, 728, 729, 730, 731, 733, and 734. The last two Arab assaults were met with substantial Byzantine resistance.
The first true conquest expedition was launched in 740. In that year, Habib ibn Abi Obeida al-Fihri, who had participated in the 728 attack, successfully captured Syracuse. Though ready to conquer the whole island, the expedition was forced to return to Tunisia by a Berber revolt. A second attack in 752 aimed only to sack Syracuse again.
In 805, the imperial patrician of Sicily, Constantine, signed a ten-year truce with Ibrahim I ibn al-Aghlab, Emir of Ifriqiya, but this did not prevent Muslim fleets from other areas of Africa and Spain from attacking Sardinia and Corsica from 806–821. In 812, Ibrahim's son, Abdallah I, sent an invasion force to conquer Sicily. His ships were first harassed by the intervention of Gaeta and Amalfi and were later destroyed in great number by a tempest. However, they managed to conquer the island of Lampedusa and to ravage Ponza and Ischia in the Tyrrhenian Sea. A further agreement between the new patrician Gregorius and the emir established the freedom of commerce between southern Italy and Ifriqiya. After a further attack in 819 by Mohammed ibn-Adballad, cousin of Amir Ziyadat Allah I of Ifriqiya, no subsequent Muslim attacks on Sicily are mentioned by sources until 827.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histo...rn_Italy#Fatimid_Sicily_.28909.E2.80.93965.29

This also explains the presence of the rare haplogroups such as E-V13 for example in the region.
 
Elais

I think that your ancestors came to the fore in the Vandalic era and they could have made it in Roman times that one of your ancestors could have been a Roman soldier and they could come with the first European farmers (caedium pottery?)
 
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