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Thread: African admixture in ancient Germanic/Scandinavian people

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    6 out of 6 members found this post helpful.

    Question African admixture in ancient Germanic/Scandinavian people

    I have analysed dozens of ancient genomes using Dodecad dv3 and K12b and Eurogenes K36, and I noticed that almost every time ancient Scandinavians or Germanic tribes possessed non-negligible percentages of African admixture. These were sometimes reported as Central African or Northwest African by Eurogenes K36. Ancient Germanic sample have between 1% and 3% of African admixture using the two Dodecad calculators. Yet modern Scandinavians don't have any trace of it (0%, not even 0.1%) using the exact same calculators. This is extremely odd. It cannot be due to the poor quality of the genomes, since it happened even with nearly full genomic sequences 50x bigger than 23andMe's raw data, and therefore covering all the SNP's used in the calculators.

    The African admixture was not found in Mesolithic Scandinavia, but shows up at high frequency (6 to 10%) in the Late Neolithic Funnelbeaker culture, just before the Proto-Indo-European invasions with the Corded Ware culture (from 2800 BCE in Scandinavia). The Funnelbeaker culture marks the arrival of Megalithic structures in Scandinavia from western Europe. Megaliths seem to have originated in the Near East. The oldest ones in Europe were found in Sicily and southern Portugal and date from c. 7000 BCE. The Atlantic Megalithic culture really started with the advent of farming and would have spread from Iberia to France, the British Isles and the Low Countries before reaching Scandinavia. Considering the high Northwest African admixture in Funnelbeaker, there is a good chance that Iberian Megalithic people inherited genes from Northwest Africans, probably from the North African Neolithic route that brought R1b-V88, E-M78, J1 and T1a to Iberia.

    Here are two Funnelbeaker samples from Sweden. They also had about 3% of Southwest Asian, which is perfectly consistent with a Neolithic dispersal from the southern Levant across North Africa until Iberia.

    Gökhem7

    Dodecad dv3

    8.38% of Northwest_African
    2.14% of Palaeo_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 10.52% African

    Dodecad K12b:

    6.75% of Northwest_African
    4.77% of Sub_Saharan
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 11.52% African


    Gökhem3

    Dodecad dv3

    4.26% of Northwest_African
    1.19% of Palaeo_African
    0.85% of Palaeo_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 6.3% African

    Dodecad K12b:

    3.94% of Northwest_African
    1.73% of Sub_Saharan
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 5.67% African


    This African admixture remained in Scandinavia at least until the Late Iron Age and was present in every single sample I tested.


    Battle-Axe culture (RISE71, H3b, c. 2100 BCE Denmark)

    Dodecad Dv3:

    0.73% Neo_African
    0.34% Palaeo_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 1.07% African

    Dodecad K12b:

    0.17% Northwest_African

    Nordic Bronze Age (RISE077, I1, J1c8, c. 1350 BCE Denmark)

    Dodecad Dv3:

    2.79% Neo_African

    Dodecad K12b:

    2.69% Sub_Saharan

    Iron-age Sweden (RISE174, W1, c. 500 CE)

    Dodecad Dv3:

    0.42% Neo_African
    2.03% Northwest_African
    0.12% Palaeo_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 2.57% African

    Dodecad K12b:

    0.97% Northwest_African
    0.36% Sub_Saharan
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 1.33% African

    Anglo-Saxon (Hinxton2, H2a2b, c. 700 CE)

    Dodecad Dv3:

    0.53% Neo_African
    0.81% East_African 0.22% Palaeo_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 1.55% African


    Dodecad K12b:

    0.70% Sub_Saharan
    0.49% East_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 1.19% African
    Last edited by Maciamo; 13-11-16 at 09:03.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have analysed dozens of ancient genomes using Dodecad dv3 and K12b and Eurogenes K36, and I noticed that almost every time ancient Scandinavians or Germanic tribes possessed non-negligible percentages of African admixture. These were sometimes reported as Central African or Northwest African by Eurogenes K36. Ancient Germanic sample have between 1% and 3% of African admixture using the two Dodecad calculators. Yet modern Scandinavians don't have any trace of it (0%, not even 0.1%) using the exact same calculators. This is extremely odd. It cannot be due to the poor quality of the genomes, since it happened even with nearly full genomic sequences 50x bigger than 23andMe's raw data, and therefore covering all the SNP's used in the calculators. I have no explanation for it. This is a mystery. Could it be linked to the low percentage of Y-haplogroup A1a in Scandinavia and Finland?

    Here are the percentages tested.

    Battle-Axe culture (RISE71, H3b, c. 2100 BCE Denmark)

    Dodecad Dv3:

    0.73% Neo_African
    0.34% Palaeo_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 1.07% African

    Dodecad K12b:

    0.17% Northwest_African

    Nordic Bronze Age (RISE077, I1, J1c8, c. 1350 BCE Denmark)

    Dodecad Dv3:

    2.79% Neo_African

    Dodecad K12b:

    2.69% Sub_Saharan

    Iron-age Sweden (RISE174, W1, c. 500 CE)

    Dodecad Dv3:

    0.42% Neo_African
    2.03% Northwest_African
    0.12% Palaeo_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 2.57% African

    Dodecad K12b:

    0.97% Northwest_African
    0.36% Sub_Saharan
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 1.33% African

    Anglo-Saxon (Hinxton2, H2a2b, c. 700 CE)

    Dodecad Dv3:

    0.53% Neo_African
    0.81% East_African 0.22% Palaeo_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 1.55% African


    Dodecad K12b:

    0.70% Sub_Saharan
    0.49% East_African
    ------------------------------
    TOTAL: 1.19% African
    Keep in mind that midevil British Islesmen were subject to pillaging and the Vikings took them as slaves. Even today, we can see the genetic effects of the Viking raids by seeing a noticeable R1b-L21 presence in Scandinavia and Iceland Even AncestryDna has reported that a whooping 41% of Norwegian, Swedes and Danes combined population has partial ancestry that came from the Isles. As far as African genes in Scandinavia is concerned, I'd be interested to see where the origins of Scandinavian E-M78 and A1 subclades are.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...-DNA.shtml#L21




    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...-DNA.shtml#M78

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    My guess is that such African signal is nowadays so diluted and recombined into the actual Scandinavian gene pool that programs take all it as native Scandinavian. If that would be the case the real African signal might be higher than that found.
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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Keep in mind that midevil British Islesmen were subject to pillaging and the Vikings took them as slaves. Even today, we can see the genetic effects of the Viking raids by seeing a noticeable R1b-L21 presence in Scandinavia and Iceland Even AncestryDna has reported that a whooping 41% of Norwegian, Swedes and Danes combined population has partial ancestry that came from the Isles. As far as African genes in Scandinavia is concerned, I'd be interested to see where the origins of Scandinavian E-M78 and A1 subclades are.
    It has nothing to do with slaves. The African admixture was absent in Mesolithic Sweden, but appeared since the Chalcolithic/EBA with Corded Ware and lasts for 3700 years until the Anglo-Saxon migrations in every sample I ran. I also noticed a bit (but less) African admixture in some Yamna samples. I wonder if this could not be some Palaeolithic remnant that has been pruned from the gene pool but some kind of natural selection. The question is how did it happen and why did it take some 4000 years to disappear?

    FYI E-M78 in Scandinavia is almost all E-V13 and has a very recent TMRCA (LBA or Iron Age). The African admixture was probably there before. And anyway V13 is European and countries with high levels of V13 like Albania and Kosovo have nowhere near as much African admixture as these ancient Scandinavian samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It has nothing to do with slaves. The African admixture was absent in Mesolithic Sweden, but appeared since the Chalcolithic/EBA with Corded Ware and lasts for 3700 years until the Anglo-Saxon migrations in every sample I ran. I also noticed a bit (but less) African admixture in some Yamna samples. I wonder if this could not be some Palaeolithic remnant that has been pruned from the gene pool but some kind of natural selection. The question is how did it happen and why did it take some 4000 years to disappear?

    FYI E-M78 in Scandinavia is almost all E-V13 and has a very recent TMRCA (LBA or Iron Age). The African admixture was probably there before. And anyway V13 is European and countries with high levels of V13 like Albania and Kosovo have nowhere near as much African admixture as these ancient Scandinavian samples.
    Interesting, Soundslike a serious case of natural selection, I can't even figure out what other Ancient civilizations could have come into contact with the Norse; besides other Germanic tribes and Uralic tribes. Was there any disaster going on in Scandinavia's archeological record that required them to not only move out but shead their African genes; becides competing tribes and overpopulation?
    Last edited by Twilight; 11-11-16 at 20:15.

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    @ maciano

    maybe you should run something like this program

    Eurasia K14 Neolithic Admixture Proportions

    This calculator's focus is calculation of admixture proportions and modeling of an individual based on a collection of ancient Neolithic and Bronze Age genomes from across Eurasia.

    For information about population abreviations and descriptions: Wolfgang Haak, et al, Haak population map and Morten Allentoft, et al or Allentoft population map. Additional information about this calculator HERE.

    For further questions, please contact the calculator creator at [email protected].


    which uses the ancient samples

    example of mine below with ancient samples I match

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Early_European_Farmers 43.72
    2 Neolithic_Balkan_Farmers 13.57
    3 SW_Asian 12.74
    4 Afansievo_Yamnaya 11.63
    5 SHG_WHG 10.74
    6 Kalash 3.87
    7 SE_Asian 1.22
    8 S_Amerindian 0.94
    9 Papuan 0.79
    10 Siberian 0.4
    11 Sub_Saharan 0.39

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 HungaryGamba_BA1 14.45
    2 HungaryGamba_IA 14.64
    3 Hungarian_BA3 17.45
    4 Bell_Beaker_LN3 17.89
    5 Bell_Beaker_LN4 18.13
    6 Hungarian_BA7 18.87
    7 Bell_Beaker_LN2 19.98
    8 Hungarian_BA8 20.89
    9 Nordic_BA1 21.31
    10 Bell_Beaker_BA1 23.04
    11 Sintashta_BA 24.1
    12 Nordic_IA 24.25
    13 Hungarian_BA4 24.85
    14 RISE_baSca 26.81
    15 Unetice_BA1 26.82
    16 RISE_baSca 27.36
    17 Bell_Beaker_BA2 28.66
    18 Bell_Beaker_BA4 29.83
    19 Hungarian_BA5 30.23
    20 Corded_Ware_BA3 31.85

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 50.7% Hungarian_BA3 + 49.3% Bell_Beaker_LN3 @ 5.71
    2 59.1% Hungarian_BA3 + 40.9% Nordic_IA @ 6.7
    3 54% Hungarian_BA3 + 46% Bell_Beaker_LN2 @ 7.28
    4 62% Hungarian_BA3 + 38% Unetice_BA1 @ 7.42
    5 55.3% Hungarian_BA3 + 44.7% Hungarian_BA8 @ 7.57
    6 59.8% Corded_Ware_BA6 + 40.2% Armenian_BA3 @ 7.57
    7 56.2% HungaryGamba_BA1 + 43.8% Hungarian_BA3 @ 7.89
    8 62.3% Hungarian_BA3 + 37.7% RISE_baSca @ 8.02
    9 58.3% Hungarian_BA3 + 41.7% Bell_Beaker_BA1 @ 8.09
    10 67.1% Hungarian_BA3 + 32.9% Nordic_LN @ 8.41
    11 56.1% HungaryGamba_IA + 43.9% Hungarian_BA3 @ 8.48
    12 75.7% HungaryGamba_BA1 + 24.3% Hungarian_BA1 @ 8.66
    13 59.8% Hungarian_BA3 + 40.2% Sintashta_BA @ 8.75
    14 88.5% HungaryGamba_BA1 + 11.5% BedouinB @ 9.28
    15 73.7% HungaryGamba_IA + 26.3% Stuttgart @ 9.35
    16 56.4% Sintashta_BA + 43.6% Hungarian_BA5 @ 9.39
    17 67.8% Hungarian_BA3 + 32.2% Benzigerode_LN3 @ 9.6
    18 53.4% Unetice_BA1 + 46.6% Hungarian_BA5 @ 9.73
    19 51.4% Hungarian_BA3 + 48.6% Bell_Beaker_LN4 @ 9.78
    20 65.1% Hungarian_BA3 + 34.9% Bell_Beaker_BA2 @ 9.79
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It has nothing to do with slaves. The African admixture was absent in Mesolithic Sweden, but appeared since the Chalcolithic/EBA with Corded Ware and lasts for 3700 years until the Anglo-Saxon migrations in every sample I ran. I also noticed a bit (but less) African admixture in some Yamna samples. I wonder if this could not be some Palaeolithic remnant that has been pruned from the gene pool but some kind of natural selection. The question is how did it happen and why did it take some 4000 years to disappear?

    FYI E-M78 in Scandinavia is almost all E-V13 and has a very recent TMRCA (LBA or Iron Age). The African admixture was probably there before. And anyway V13 is European and countries with high levels of V13 like Albania and Kosovo have nowhere near as much African admixture as these ancient Scandinavian samples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Keep in mind that midevil British Islesmen were subject to pillaging and the Vikings took them as slaves. Even today, we can see the genetic effects of the Viking raids by seeing a noticeable R1b-L21 presence in Scandinavia and Iceland Even AncestryDna has reported that a whooping 41% of Norwegian, Swedes and Danes combined population has partial ancestry that came from the Isles. As far as African genes in Scandinavia is concerned, I'd be interested to see where the origins of Scandinavian E-M78 and A1 subclades are.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...-DNA.shtml#L21




    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...-DNA.shtml#M78
    Is there still a small change that my Y-DNA (E-V22) has old roots? My educated guess up to know: it's derived from a Spanish soldier (during a raid in Frisia in 1586). The Spanish tercios where recruited from places with relative high E-V22 (about 5 %) like Asturias, Andalusia, Sicily, Napels area.

    But if has older roots how could it survive for so long?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I try to guess:
    - archaic segments can without too much doubt show some today labelled "African SSA DNA", among Europeans or Asians; I have not all in mind but I believe I saw high enough "African" admixture in almost all very old (Paleol.) samples in Asia or Eurasia; to be checked.
    - it seems some very light "african" admixture was found too in Afanasyevo and even Andronovo, depending on admixtures calculators.
    - for Battle Axe I don't know but the Scandinavian BA I saw in PCAs or in admixtures were spred around Central-South Europe of today, even more "southerners" than BBs as a mean and had a serious amount of 'mediter' or EEF or this kind.
    - I don't forget a supposed FLBK man of Sweden Gokhem was very 'basque-mediter' oriented, basically EEF + more WHG than the Neolithic of the period in Central Europe. this aspect of FLBK seems strongly associated with megalithic cultures of more western origin, surely with a remote origin in the Atlantic Façade; if Atlantic Iberia people have been involved at some stage it's possible they could explain an higher % of "African" ancestry even if this % is relatively low? Some Atapuerco men showed amazing results in some admixture runs.
    - I suppose selection but also DRIFT and later mutations can explain the quasi disparition of this African small components
    - finally I wonder if we rely not too much on admixtures calculators so different one from another, when speaking of so small %s? Only a doubt.
    That said, I'm going to bed. Good week-end all of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It has nothing to do with slaves. The African admixture was absent in Mesolithic Sweden, but appeared since the Chalcolithic/EBA with Corded Ware and lasts for 3700 years until the Anglo-Saxon migrations in every sample I ran. I also noticed a bit (but less) African admixture in some Yamna samples. I wonder if this could not be some Palaeolithic remnant that has been pruned from the gene pool but some kind of natural selection. The question is how did it happen and why did it take some 4000 years to disappear?

    FYI E-M78 in Scandinavia is almost all E-V13 and has a very recent TMRCA (LBA or Iron Age). The African admixture was probably there before. And anyway V13 is European and countries with high levels of V13 like Albania and Kosovo have nowhere near as much African admixture as these ancient Scandinavian samples.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I try to guess:
    - archaic segments can without too much doubt show some today labelled "African SSA DNA", among Europeans or Asians; I have not all in mind but I believe I saw high enough "African" admixture in almost all very old (Paleol.) samples in Asia or Eurasia; to be checked.
    - it seems some very light "african" admixture was found too in Afanasyevo and even Andronovo, depending on admixtures calculators.
    - for Battle Axe I don't know but the Scandinavian BA I saw in PCAs or in admixtures were spred around Central-South Europe of today, even more "southerners" than BBs as a mean and had a serious amount of 'mediter' or EEF or this kind.
    - I don't forget a supposed FLBK man of Sweden Gokhem was very 'basque-mediter' oriented, basically EEF + more WHG than the Neolithic of the period in Central Europe. this aspect of FLBK seems strongly associated with megalithic cultures of more western origin, surely with a remote origin in the Atlantic Façade; if Atlantic Iberia people have been involved at some stage it's possible they could explain an higher % of "African" ancestry even if this % is relatively low? Some Atapuerco men showed amazing results in some admixture runs.
    - I suppose selection but also DRIFT and later mutations can explain the quasi disparition of this African small components
    - finally I wonder if we rely not too much on admixtures calculators so different one from another, when speaking of so small %s? Only a doubt.
    That said, I'm going to bed. Good week-end all of you.
    Gentleman Marciamo and Moesan. Please your view, the view of an expert, on African lineage in Germans.

    My family line, confirmed by test with very distant cousins, that E-V22 is the case. I figured out that E-V22 is a typical Northeast African lineages. See: http://e-v22.net/origin/ and http://e-v22.net/descendants/

    In the Netherlands above the Rhine, typical "germanic area' , there are only two families tested with (very very distant related) E-V22. In both cases we suspect that there is a linkage with the Spanish army.

    But Maciamo's posting opens another possibility! May be it's an old, prehistoric, African lineage in Germanic Europe? Within E-V22 we belong to the E-PH2818 subclade. Y-full figured out that the TMRCA is 8000 years ago.

    See:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V22/
    (I'am the PH 2818 the non Pur)

    So time enough to travel to Northern Europe within the time range Maciamo has given (the TMRCA of 'cousin' E-V13 is much later).

    But the only thing I think it's not possible to relate this to old roots is because of what Maciamo stated: North African lineage like E-V22 are statistically non-existent in modern Northwest European people. So I guess it's almost statistically impossible (would almost be a miracle) to link my North African Y-DNA with Battle-Axe, Nordic Bronze or Anglo-Saxon. Or?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Gentleman Marciamo and Moesan. Please your view, the view of an expert, on African lineage in Germans.

    My family line, confirmed by test with very distant cousins, that E-V22 is the case. I figured out that E-V22 is a typical Northeast African lineages. See: http://e-v22.net/origin/ and http://e-v22.net/descendants/

    In the Netherlands above the Rhine, typical "germanic area' , there are only two families tested with (very very distant related) E-V22. In both cases we suspect that there is a linkage with the Spanish army.

    But Maciamo's posting opens another possibility! May be it's an old, prehistoric, African lineage in Germanic Europe? Within E-V22 we belong to the E-PH2818 subclade. Y-full figured out that the TMRCA is 8000 years ago.

    See:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V22/
    (I'am the PH 2818 the non Pur)

    So time enough to travel to Northern Europe within the time range Maciamo has given (the TMRCA of 'cousin' E-V13 is much later).

    But the only thing I think it's not possible to relate this to old roots is because of what Maciamo stated: North African lineage like E-V22 are statistically non-existent in modern Northwest European people. So I guess it's almost statistically impossible (would almost be a miracle) to link my North African Y-DNA with Battle-Axe, Nordic Bronze or Anglo-Saxon. Or?
    Since you insist for an answer on a personal question in a thread about a very general topic, here is your answer. E-V22 formed about 12,000 years ago, and all current carriers descend from a common ancestors who lived only 8500 years ago, during the Neolithic period. Since E-V22 originated in Northeast Africa, its presence in northern Europe cannot be very ancient. It might have spread from Egypt to the Maghreb, then crossed to Iberia and spread over western Europe during the Megalithic and/or Bell Beaker period, about 5000 years ago, just before the R1b Indo-Europeans invaded western Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Since you insist for an answer on a personal question in a thread about a very general topic, here is your answer. E-V22 formed about 12,000 years ago, and all current carriers descend from a common ancestors who lived only 8500 years ago, during the Neolithic period. Since E-V22 originated in Northeast Africa, its presence in northern Europe cannot be very ancient. It might have spread from Egypt to the Maghreb, then crossed to Iberia and spread over western Europe during the Megalithic and/or Bell Beaker period, about 5000 years ago, just before the R1b Indo-Europeans invaded western Europe.
    Thank you Maciamo! It's indeed a personal question, but a personal question related to the big question how came North-African in the gene pool of the ancients Germans. And what's the story afterwards. So a nice coincidence of a more private, personal matter and a more general one.

    The big question for me, and it's also a general question, it's an almost mathematical, statistic question. Mathematics I must admit was not my favorite lesson at school, too much alpha, historian ;)

    But let's assume in Megalithic and or Bell Beaker period there was little amount of North-African genes in Northwestern Europe. That was 5000 years ago. About 170 generations ago. Every generation there is a change that this Y-DNA died out. What's the chance that after 170 generations this Y-DNA is still alive?

    I guess this is a nice general genetic (what's the chance every generation a Y-DNA lineage died) and a mathematical question! Who's the smart whiz kid here :)
    Last edited by Northener; 12-11-16 at 22:58.

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    @Northerner: I am not an expert - by the way Maciamo did you an answer which would have taken time from me to do.
    That said, if a component is present in a region, even at low frequency, it doesn't systematically disappear; yes a pure "alien" arriving in a new land has his genes diluted - rapidly - but if they were more th

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    ... more than an "alien", at some stage, the % of their genes stabilizes itself at a low rate, but doesn't fade out so quickly, even if their rarety put them in statistical danger. an haplo can disappear more quickly than autosomes.

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    African admixture in ancient Germanic/Scandinavian people

    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    ... more than an "alien", at some stage, the % of their genes stabilizes itself at a low rate, but doesn't fade out so quickly, even if their rarety put them in statistical danger. an haplo can disappear more quickly than autosomes.
    Thank you Moesan, although not an self-declared expert stil a wise man!

    With another person who belongs to a family with E-V22 in the Northeastern part in the Netherlands we are researching how this North African genes came in two tiny villages one in the center of Friesland and one in Twente exactly on the border with Germany.

    Independent form each other we suspect a linkage with Spanish raids during the Dutch revolt, or the Dutch liberation war 1568-1648. For both areas this is proven. Other possibilities like a Jewish heritage is unknown but because of different reasons (like Jewish people came after 1650 in Frisia and had already last names etc).

    But we still haven't closed the case, because it would only be solved when we discover in Southern Europe the same lineage, so its more likely that we are descendant of a Spanish soldier. Until then there is still the possibility of Dodo genes from an older contingent.....but with these two Isolated cases, on the total know amount of the northern Netherlands tests not even a pro mille, it looks to me more like "alien" than a low rate but stabile old Y DNA.

    But I stays triggering that on the Benelux level there are 8 families with E-V22 all in relatively small towns....but the Spanish fury was devastating.





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    Last edited by Northener; 15-11-16 at 12:53.

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    AFAIK in some cases African admixture shows up due to damages in ancient DNA, low coverage (small number SNPs), or/and a lot of "no calls".BTW, the following ancient Scandinavians have been uploaded:Gedmatch / Sample / Dating / Country / Coverage (number of SNPs)F999956 / RISE94 / 2621-2472 BC / Sweden / 619,914M130094 / RISE61 / 2650-2300 BC / Denmark / 293,152M671253 / RISE71 / 2196-2023 BC / Denmark / 203,604F999945 / RISE97 / 2025-1885 BC / Sweden / 580,367F999941 / RISE98 / 2275-2032 BC / Sweden / 1,125,643F999943 / RISE174 / 427-611 AD / Sweden / ???Are there any other ancient Scandinavians worth uploading ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Interesting, Soundslike a serious case of natural selection, I can't even figure out what other Ancient civilizations could have come into contact with the Norse; besides other Germanic tribes and Uralic tribes. Was there any disaster going on in Scandinavia's archeological record that required them to not only move out but shead their African genes; becides competing tribes and overpopulation?
    I am new here but have with interest noticed this thread of ancient African admixture into Scandinavians autosomal genome as I am a Scandinavian myself (Swede).

    I have one theory about this and why this admixture is not seen in Scandinavians of today. I have read that this admixture cam be seen in the Funnelbeaker culture and with a less percentage even all the way into the late Iron Age.

    In Scandinavia there was a great social crisis following the Extreme Weather Events of 535-536 AD which persisted to at least 550 AD and is regarded as the worst climatic anomaly the last 2000 years, problably longer. Perhaps the crisis in Scandinavia simply extirpated these farmer people with african genes. The climatic anolmaly was worldwide but Scandinavia suffered the most severe impact, due to geography and climate. Those who would have suffered most would have been farmers who could not have coped with prolonged climatic cooling. There is evidence of many abondened villages at this time in Scandinavia and a shift in the farming practices.

    Probably this climatic and social crisis in Scandinavia around 550 AD extirpated many lineages.

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    New here. Im from the northern parts of sweden.
    On the Dodecad v3 i get
    Northwest_African 0,46
    On the K12b
    Northwest_African 0,49
    And on eurogens
    North_African 1,36
    My wife have aboute the same numbers so it still exists in some of us. This part of the country have always been much more isolated than the southern parts so perhaps it was better preserved here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    AFAIK in some cases African admixture shows up due to damages in ancient DNA, low coverage (small number SNPs), or/and a lot of "no calls".BTW, the following ancient Scandinavians have been uploaded:Gedmatch / Sample / Dating / Country / Coverage (number of SNPs)F999956 / RISE94 / 2621-2472 BC / Sweden / 619,914M130094 / RISE61 / 2650-2300 BC / Denmark / 293,152M671253 / RISE71 / 2196-2023 BC / Denmark / 203,604F999945 / RISE97 / 2025-1885 BC / Sweden / 580,367F999941 / RISE98 / 2275-2032 BC / Sweden / 1,125,643F999943 / RISE174 / 427-611 AD / Sweden / ???Are there any other ancient Scandinavians worth uploading ???
    Do you know about RISE175, 179, and 207?
    Hgs in my trees: (York. I2a2a, S. York. M269,Corn. L21>Z253 ), (Wales: G2a, L21>L159), Scot. M269, Irl. L21>L226, unknown M269

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    According to Davidski:

    The Sub-Saharan noise is more linked to post-mortem damage than to the lack of markers or even to low depth coverage, so samples that have not been UDG treated, for example, will show a lot of noise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I1a3_Young View Post
    Do you know about RISE175, 179, and 207?
    Z681012 rise175

    Z236325 rise207

    Z570822 rise179


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    According to Davidski:
    Perhaps, but here is another view:
    When I look at admixture samples there always was SS African in them from way back, Oasis and Kostenki, or SE Asian. It was noticeably diminishing through ages till completely disappeared today in Northern Europe. Well, except Papuan (in Harappa). It is still there. Looks like slow changes due to mutations. Slowly getting away from African base to modern varieties.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Perhaps, but here is another view:
    When I look at admixture samples there always was SS African in them from way back, Oasis and Kostenki, or SE Asian. It was noticeably diminishing through ages till completely disappeared today in Northern Europe. Well, except Papuan (in Harappa). It is still there. Looks like slow changes due to mutations. Slowly getting away from African base to modern varieties.
    I agree - Surely one of the most evident causes -
    the longer lasting old forms could be due to selective advantage in some conditions -

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I agree - Surely one of the most evident causes -
    the longer lasting old forms could be due to selective advantage in some conditions -
    Yes, I imagine some genes can persist much longer, because are "perfect" for existing conditions. It is almost impossible to improve them.

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    I uploased all Motala, Ajvide and Gokhem smaples (some of them were before on Gedmatch).

    For me all "SSA: among them is due to contamination and low coverage. Results in K36 Eurogenes.


    F999917 Z455526 Z116076 Z974364 Z151696 Z937642 Z466794

    Motala012 Motala01, Sweden Motala02, Sweden Motala04, Sweden Motala06, Sweden Motala09, Sweden Stora Forvar 11
    Amerindian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Arabian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Armenian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Basque 0 0 0 0 0 0 1,15
    Central_African 0 0 0 0 0 7,8 0
    Central_Euro 0 0 0 0 4,18 0 7,3
    East_African 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    East_Asian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    East_Balkan 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    East_Central_Asian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    East_Central_Euro 20,39 23 8,61 9,03 41,76 8,43 14,79
    East_Med 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Eastern_Euro 19,45 8,25 4,78 5,31 6,15 10,02 30,05
    Fennoscandian 33,3 35,5 42,31 49,66 19,06 52,19 18,48
    French 0 0 3,9 0 0 15,92 0
    Iberian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Indo0Chinese 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Italian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Malayan 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Near_Eastern 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    North_African 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    North_Atlantic 9,79 0 9,11 11,83 4,86 0 16,27
    North_Caucasian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    North_Sea 17,08 31,72 31,29 19,08 24 5,64 10,13
    Northeast_African 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Oceanian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Omotic 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Pygmy 0 1,53 0 0 0 0 0
    Siberian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    South_Asian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    South_Central_Asian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    South_Chinese 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Volga0Ural 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    West_African 0 0 0 5,07 0 0 1,84
    West_Caucasian 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    West_Med 0 0 0 0 0 0 0



    Pitted Ware, Gotland


    F999924 Z191490 Z977196 T109642 T577284 T529074

    Ajvide58 Ajvide53 Ajvide59 Ajvide70 Ajvide52 Ire8
    Amerindian 0,72 2,77 0 0 0 0
    Arabian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Armenian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Basque 4,32 12,44 0 0 3,24 9,59
    Central_African 0 1,55 0 0 0 0
    Central_Euro 3,67 0,55 0 0 2,37 0
    East_African 0 0 0,73 0 0 0
    East_Asian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    East_Balkan 0 0 0 0 9,84 0
    East_Central_Asian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    East_Central_Euro 17,81 0 7,26 32,73 26,77 10,38
    East_Med 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Eastern_Euro 14,4 21,11 57,99 6,25 2,85 8,89
    Fennoscandian 26,19 31,55 14,01 23,6 19,22 29,46
    French 5,51 0 0 6,07 0 5,4
    Iberian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Indo0Chinese 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Italian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Malayan 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Near_Eastern 0 0 0 0 0 0
    North_African 0 0 0 0 0 0
    North_Atlantic 7,89 0 0 20,11 13 16,94
    North_Caucasian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    North_Sea 19,49 25,89 13,29 10,52 20,7 14,87
    Northeast_African 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Oceanian 0 0,59 0 0 0 0
    Omotic 0 0 5,47 0 0 4,47
    Pygmy 0 0 1,24 0 2,01 0
    Siberian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    South_Asian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    South_Central_Asian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    South_Chinese 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Volga0Ural 0 3,54 0 0 0 0
    West_African 0 0 0 0,72 0 0
    West_Caucasian 0 0 0 0 0 0
    West_Med 0 0 0 0 0 0

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    Gokhem, Sweden

    Z070134 Z867326 F999934 T742920
    Gokhem4 Gökhem7 Gökhem2 Gokhem5
    Amerindian 4,34 0 0 0
    Arabian 0 0 0 0
    Armenian 1,97 0 0 0
    Basque 2,49 27,03 1,78 9,45
    Central_African 4,5 0 0 1,15
    Central_Euro 0 0 0,55 7,85
    East_African 0 0 0 0
    East_Asian 2,14 0 0 0
    East_Balkan 0 13,07 3,77 11,36
    East_Central_Asian 0 0 0 1,16
    East_Central_Euro 0 0 0 0
    East_Med 0 0 0 0
    Eastern_Euro 0 0 0 0
    Fennoscandian 0 0 0 0
    French 0 0 6,83 0
    Iberian 15,83 26,71 39,35 7,37
    Indo0Chinese 0 0 0 0
    Italian 32,27 0 14,78 37,94
    Malayan 0 0 0 0
    Near_Eastern 0 0 0 0
    North_African 1,11 0,18 1,34 5,34
    North_Atlantic 9,12 0 0,13 0
    North_Caucasian 0 0 0 0
    North_Sea 0 0 6,86 0
    Northeast_African 0 0 0 0
    Oceanian 0 0 0,19 0,11
    Omotic 0 4,25 0 0
    Pygmy 0 0 0 0
    Siberian 0,77 0 0 0
    South_Asian 0 0 0 0
    South_Central_Asian 0 0 0 0
    South_Chinese 0 0 0 0
    Volga0Ural 0 0 0 0,32
    West_African 0 0,83 0 0
    West_Caucasian 0 0 0 0
    West_Med 25,46 27,93 24,4 17,96

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