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Thread: FTDNA ancientOrigins

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    My results are
    25% Hunter-gatherer
    59% Farmer
    16% Metal Age invader
    0% non european
    Metal Age invader is CHG in my opinion, maybe they'll change something in the near future, I don't know. I hope they refine the non-european set, in order to see the ancestral origins of users from outside of Europe.
    FTDNA lacks diversity within their database because, as stated, they mostly have European-derived testees!

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    Hunter-Gatherer - 47%
    Farmer - 35%
    Metal Age Invader - 18%

    non-European - 0%

  3. #53
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    For my GrandPa :

    19% Metal Age Invader
    52% Farmer
    29% Hunter- Gatherer
    0% Non-European

    for me:

    18% Metal Age Invader
    51% Farmer
    31% Hunter-Gatherer
    0% Non-European

    :)

  4. #54
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    My results

    12% Metal Age invader

    59% Farmer

    29% Hunter Gatherer

    0% Non-European.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Misleading calculator for Europeans it would probably be accurate in some way, except that the metal age component should take some hunter-gatherer ancestry into account, and so, in reality, it should be higher throughout Europe than its current values.

    In non-Europeans like my self, the farmer probably refers to Levantine and Anatolian farmers, while metal age is Iranian farmer, that's why it is extremely high in South Asians.

    Anyway my results:

    Metal Age Invader 26%
    Farmer 66%
    Hunter-Gatherer 0%
    non-European 7%

  6. #56
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Metal Age Invader 0%
    Farmer 0%
    Hunter-Gatherer 100%
    non-European 0%
    Yeah, I know it's fake, I've never even been tested to begin with, but in my state of mind, im hunter gatherer through and through ;)
    btw before someone calls me a "nordicist" I meant to say that i identify with all hunter gatherers, including natufians.
    I don't expect to score anywhere near this, trust me. Even Russians won't get that much hunter gatherer.
    Last edited by davef; 08-10-17 at 16:40.

  7. #57
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    I have to agree with you Maciamo. How in the world do they really know. I look at the various %'s of my kits, and they very between siblings to an extent the sibs do not even seem related. But it's a fun thing to look at.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    As someone pointed out upthread:

    metal-age = CHG from South Caucasus

    Farmer = EEF in Anatolia

    hunter-gathers = WHG and EHG

    By naming "CHG" the Metal Age Invaders, the creators may be indicating they see not just metallurgy but the entire transformative culture as flowing from south of the Caucasus in all directions.

    That said, whether it's this company or all the Davidski calculators, or anyone else's calculators, if it's based on modern populations it's going to be off. The comparison has to be to ancient samples.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  9. #59
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    ftdna ancient origins is based on ancient { they compare your DNA to la -brana, loschbour , motola, oetzi ,lbk farmers,corded ware remains in Germany Hungary and yamnaya remains}
    but very different from k12 test of Kurd
    in ftdna ancient origins i scored 12% whg and Kurd k12 0% Nada.
    but i will give credit to kurd here for his test which is probably more precise...
    and those whg alleles are hiding in the west farmers or the steppe ...
    kind regards
    Adam

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    ftdna ancient origins is based on ancient { they compare your DNA to la -brana, loschbour , motola, oetzi ,lbk farmers,corded ware remains in Germany Hungary and yamnaya remains}
    but very different from k12 test of Kurd
    in ftdna ancient origins i scored 12% whg and Kurd k12 0% Nada.
    but i will give credit to kurd here for his test which is probably more precise...
    and those whg alleles are hiding in the west farmers or the steppe ...
    kind regards
    Adam
    I didn't know that; thank-you Kingjohn.

    I never had much faith in ftdna autosomal analysis. I remember when they included Ashkenazim in the Near Eastern reference sample, even though we knew even then they were about 50% non-Levantine. Of course, Southern Europeans got inflated Near Eastern as a result.

  11. #61
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    My dad
    11% Metal Age
    44% Farmer
    45% HG
    0% Non-European

    My Mom
    11% Metal
    45% Farmer
    44% HG
    0% Non-E

  12. #62
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    14% Metal Age Invader, 62% Farmer, 24% Hunter-Gatherer

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    Mine:
    Farmer: 59%
    Metal age invader: 14%
    Hunther- Gatherer: 27%
    Non-European: 0%

    Interesting feature tho, i think they will upgrade it in the future its pretty basic now..

  14. #64
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    My results:

    0% Metal Age Invader
    58% Farmer
    42% Hunter-Gatherer
    0% Non-European

    I really would like to know why Basque people show 0% metal invader ancestry. As I understand it, the metal invaders were the carriers of haplogroup R1b to western Europe, and around 85% of Basque men belong to that haplogroup. Any ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbaso View Post
    My results:
    0% Metal Age Invader
    58% Farmer
    42% Hunter-Gatherer
    0% Non-European
    I really would like to know why Basque people show 0% metal invader ancestry. As I understand it, the metal invaders were the carriers of haplogroup R1b to western Europe, and around 85% of Basque men belong to that haplogroup. Any ideas?
    Very interesting. 0% metal age, Basques are indeed a relic of a distant past.

    Please don't ever get extinct

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbaso View Post
    My results:

    0% Metal Age Invader
    58% Farmer
    42% Hunter-Gatherer
    0% Non-European

    I really would like to know why Basque people show 0% metal invader ancestry. As I understand it, the metal invaders were the carriers of haplogroup R1b to western Europe, and around 85% of Basque men belong to that haplogroup. Any ideas?
    This commercial testing company is getting it wrong to some degree, imo. Basques do have "steppe" ancestry according to academic analyses.



    In this test the "Metal Age Invaders" means, I think, the "Caucasus" portion of the "steppe" people. The only way that Basques could have no "Caucasus" ancestry is if their R1b ancestors only got EHG, not CHG/Iranian Neo. That would mean, however, that their results are somehow confounding the academic tests for "steppe".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This commercial testing company is getting it wrong to some degree, imo. Basques do have "steppe" ancestry according to academic analyses.



    In this test the "Metal Age Invaders" means, I think, the "Caucasus" portion of the "steppe" people. The only way that Basques could have no "Caucasus" ancestry is if their R1b ancestors only got EHG, not CHG/Iranian Neo. That would mean, however, that their results are somehow confounding the academic tests for "steppe".
    Harrapa World Basque results:

    S-Indian 1
    Baloch 6
    Caucasian 1
    NE-Euro 32
    SE-Asian 0
    Siberian 0
    NE-Asian 0
    Papuan 0
    American 0
    Beringian 0
    Mediterranean 56
    SW-Asian 2
    San 0
    E-African 0
    Pygmy 0
    W-African 0

    Caucasian is close to null, Baloch is 6. I never really grasped the difference between them, aren't they all associated with Iran Neolithic ? some calculators combine both to a West Asian component.

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    Angela, you are probably right when you say that the metal invader in FTDNA is associated to the Caucasus part of the Steppe ancestry.

    Using Dodecad World 9 in Gedmatch, I get 2.11% in the Caucasus-Gedrosia component; and the Basque reference model for it is 0%.

    In the Eurogenes K12b calculator I also get 0% for Caucasus and 0% for West Central Asia.

    So, that would mean that the Basque Yamnaya or Steppe ancestry comes from a different source other than Caucasus. Which one would that be, though?

    Looking at the Figure 3 you posted, it seems that the Yamnaya element is higher in Basques than in Spanish, which makes me wonder what the authors understand as Yamnaya then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbaso View Post
    Angela, you are probably right when you say that the metal invader in FTDNA is associated to the Caucasus part of the Steppe ancestry.

    Using Dodecad World 9 in Gedmatch, I get 2.11% in the Caucasus-Gedrosia component; and the Basque reference model for it is 0%.

    In the Eurogenes K12b calculator I also get 0% for Caucasus and 0% for West Central Asia.

    So, that would mean that the Basque Yamnaya or Steppe ancestry comes from a different source other than Caucasus. Which one would that be, though?

    Looking at the Figure 3 you posted, it seems that the Yamnaya element is higher in Basques than in Spanish, which makes me wonder what the authors understand as Yamnaya then.
    Arbaso, there is a big difference between calculators based on modern population clusters such as you can find on gedmatch, or even ones produced by commercial genomics companies based on those same modern populations, and academic analyses comparing modern genomes to actual ancient samples. The latter is always going to be more accurate. Then, comparisons based on ADMIXTURE programs are less accurate than formal stats.

    That Haak et al graphic is based on formal statistical analysis, not on ADMIXTURE, which is why I turn to it often even though it's about two years old. I don't remember the particular ancient steppe samples that they used, but they would have been a combination of EHG hunter-gatherer and Caucasus ancestry. I'd have to comb through the supplement again to see if there is a breakdown for those particular samples.

    So, imo, Pais Vasco does indeed have steppe ancestry.

    They do have more of it than standard Spanish samples, but the difference is very slight. I think what difference exists may be a function of the ancestry they don't have. For example, they have much less North African and African from what I remember. As an isolated population who may have moved into the area from the French Basque area they have a slightly different population history.

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    Meh here is mine and I might the only few people here who has some "non-european"

    Metal Age Invader: 10%
    Farmer: 56%
    Hunter-Gatherer: 32%
    Non-European: 2%

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Arbaso, there is a big difference between calculators based on modern population clusters such as you can find on gedmatch, or even ones produced by commercial genomics companies based on those same modern populations, and academic analyses comparing modern genomes to actual ancient samples. The latter is always going to be more accurate. Then, comparisons based on ADMIXTURE programs are less accurate than formal stats.

    That Haak et al graphic is based on formal statistical analysis, not on ADMIXTURE, which is why I turn to it often even though it's about two years old. I don't remember the particular ancient steppe samples that they used, but they would have been a combination of EHG hunter-gatherer and Caucasus ancestry. I'd have to comb through the supplement again to see if there is a breakdown for those particular samples.

    So, imo, Pais Vasco does indeed have steppe ancestry.

    They do have more of it than standard Spanish samples, but the difference is very slight. I think what difference exists may be a function of the ancestry they don't have. For example, they have much less North African and African from what I remember. As an isolated population who may have moved into the area from the French Basque area they have a slightly different population history.
    Arbaso, a correction. I once again forgot that the FTDNA ancient origins test does compare to actual ancient samples. However, I believe it is still based on ADMIXTURE. I would still go with Haak et al since it's based on formal stats.

    @AdeoF,
    I think all of that stuff is nonsense. If the genes in question have been in Europe for a thousand or more years, for any sensible purpose they're European.

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