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Thread: Hun sample finds in Kazakstan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Three main Xiongnu Y hgs were C, Q and N. R was small minority.

    Here are ancient DNA samples of Xiongnu/Hunnu haplogroups:

    Places of origin of samples (four graveyards, not just one):

    1) Egin Gol river valley cemetery in Mongolia
    2) Duurling Nars cemetery in Mongolia
    3) Barköl cemetery in Xinjiang, China
    4) Birlik cemetery in Kazakhstan


    Paternal lineages:

    East Asian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 82%):

    Haplo C2e - 3
    Haplo C2 - 7
    Haplo C - 1
    Haplo Q1a2 - 3
    Haplo Q1a3a - 3
    Haplo Q1b - 1
    Haplo N1c-Tat - 3
    Haplo O3a2 - 1

    West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 18%):

    Haplo R1a - 3
    Haplo R1b - 1
    Haplo I2c - 1

    Maternal lineages:

    East Asian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 83%):

    Haplo D4 - 19
    Haplo D4o1 - 9
    Haplo D5a - 1
    Haplo D5 - 1
    Haplo C - 4
    Haplo C4a1 - 1
    Haplo C5 - 1
    Haplo F1b - 4
    Haplo G2a - 1
    Haplo G2 - 1
    Haplo B4 - 1

    Uncertain origin mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 3%):

    Haplo M - 2

    West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 14%):

    Haplo U5a1a - 2
    Haplo U2e1 - 1
    Haplo U2 - 1
    Haplo J1 - 2
    Haplo H - 1
    I never heard about an R1b male sample in Huns... Is it possible to know the source and the paper from where the info comes from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    You don't get me. Turkic IS an eastern Eurastiatic language. It has nothing to do with West Asia or Mesopotamia or Iran. Turkic is much closer to other east Eurasian languages. Turkic is part of that family.

    Yeah, I do agree with you that Ubaid culture and advanced (Aryan) cultures in the Caucasus were simillar to each other. Why? Becasue all those advanced 'Aryan' cultures had their roots in the Iranian Plateau. Those people were WEST Asian people and were not from the eastern Eurasia.

    Sumerians language is OLDER than PIE. When Sumerian came into the existence there was no such thing as PIE in the Steppes. Sumerian language was a WEST Asian language and was not from the eastern Eurasia
    . While Turkic is originally from the eastern Eurasia, because ALL relatives of Turkic language live in the eastern Eurasia.

    Turkic is a 'Mongoloid' language in grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation. It is a scientific FACT and nobody can change this fact! People should be not ashamed of their roots, but be proud of their roots and embrace it. When people find peace with themselves accept their own roots and respect their own ancestors they are much more successful in the lives. We are all human, we are all the same at the end of the day.

    That's why I can't get along with people who don't have peace, have inferiotiy complex, have hidden agenda and are trying to twist their own history. They will FAIL big time, history can't be change. It is part of our DNA. You can fool human societies, you can fool yourself, but you can't fool human DNA (nature) or even GOD!
    Sino-Tibetian(Eastern Eurasian) and Turk languages(Western Eurasian) have no resemblance with each other, totally different types of languages. The term "Mongol" is only appeared in the 12th century AD, and the modern Mongol language is not equal to the medieval Mongols, who were just a tribe of the Turks. The Eastern Eurasian element within the modern Mongols have adopted the Turk language when Turkish tribes moved eastward in Eurasia. Think about it, why are the major groups of the modern Turks located in Western Eurasian regions? They did not fall from the sky into these regions. The Turkish element within the Japanese language is also very minimal, related to the migration of a small group of Huns. So, the fact is that the Turks migrated from Western Eurasian regions(which is their homeland) to Eastern Eurasian regions. How can we explain the fact that the archaeological and anthropological cultures of the Huns, Sarmatians and Pazyryk culture people are exactly the same? How can we explain the major Altaic/Dravidian element within the Sumerian language? How can we explain the tribe name "Turukku" within the Sumerians? It all ties up to the fact that the Proto Turks originated within the regions between the Urmia Region(Southern Caucasia) and Mesopotamia(reaching from Eastern Anatolia until the Levant Region).

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    Quote Originally Posted by uche View Post
    Sino-Tibetian(Eastern Eurasian) and Turk languages(Western Eurasian) have no resemblance with each other, totally different types of languages. The term "Mongol" is only appeared in the 12th century AD, and the modern Mongol language is not equal to the medieval Mongols, who were just a tribe of the Turks. The Eastern Eurasian element within the modern Mongols have adopted the Turk language when Turkish tribes moved eastward in Eurasia. Think about it, why are the major groups of the modern Turks located in Western Eurasian regions? They did not fall from the sky into these regions. The Turkish element within the Japanese language is also very minimal, related to the migration of a small group of Huns. So, the fact is that the Turks migrated from Western Eurasian regions(which is their homeland) to Eastern Eurasian regions. How can we explain the fact that the archaeological and anthropological cultures of the Huns, Sarmatians and Pazyryk culture people are exactly the same? How can we explain the major Altaic/Dravidian element within the Sumerian language? How can we explain the tribe name "Turukku" within the Sumerians? It all ties up to the fact that the Proto Turks originated within the regions between the Urmia Region(Southern Caucasia) and Mesopotamia(reaching from Eastern Anatolia until the Levant Region).
    Hahaha, now Turks are native to Kurdistan, hahaha?

    This ridiculous fantasy is not even worth another minute of my precious time. I'm not going to play your games and if you think I'm going to fall in your trap, then you are making a big mistake. I have seen this coming from the very beginning. I'm done with you. Bye bye.

    Not me, nor my opinion, everybody has an opnion. Opnions are useless, even brain dead people have one, but the ACADEMIA doesn't agree with you. If you have something usefull and scientific to say just write an academic paper or a book and try to persuade the minds of the establsihed scientists. It is up to you to prove the academia wrong. I have nothing to do with it. And since I'm not a Turk, nor Mongoloid, I'm not interested in Turkic or Mongoloid history in general.


    " Turkic languages, group of closely related languages that form a subfamily of the Altaic languages. The Turkic languages show close similarities to each other in phonology, morphology, and syntax, though Chuvash, Khalaj, and Sakha differ considerably from the rest. The earliest linguistic records are Old Turkic inscriptions, found near the Orhon River in Mongolia and the Yenisey River valley in south-central Russia, which date from the 8th century "

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Turkic-languages


    Just stop ridiculing the Turks. Have a nice day!

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Hahaha, now Turks are native to Kurdistan, hahaha?

    This ridiculous fantasy is not even worth another minute of my precious time. I'm not going to play your games and if you think I'm going to fall in your trap, then you are making a big mistake. I have seen this coming from the very beginning. I'm done with you. Bye bye.

    Not me, nor my opinion, everybody has an opnion. Opnions are useless, even brain dead people have one, but the ACADEMIA doesn't agree with you. If you have something usefull and scientific to say just write an academic paper or a book and try to persuade the minds of the establsihed scientists. It is up to you to prove the academia wrong. I have nothing to do with it. And since I'm not a Turk, nor Mongoloid, I'm not interested in Turkic or Mongoloid history in general.

    Just stop ridiculing the Turks. Have a nice day!
    Thanks for the academical reply, i appreciate it very much.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Three main Xiongnu Y hgs were C, Q and N. R was small minority.

    Here are ancient DNA samples of Xiongnu/Hunnu haplogroups:

    Places of origin of samples (four graveyards, not just one):

    1) Egin Gol river valley cemetery in Mongolia
    2) Duurling Nars cemetery in Mongolia
    3) Barköl cemetery in Xinjiang, China
    4) Birlik cemetery in Kazakhstan


    Paternal lineages:

    East Asian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 82%):

    Haplo C2e - 3
    Haplo C2 - 7
    Haplo C - 1
    Haplo Q1a2 - 3
    Haplo Q1a3a - 3
    Haplo Q1b - 1
    Haplo N1c-Tat - 3
    Haplo O3a2 - 1

    West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 18%):

    Haplo R1a - 3
    Haplo R1b - 1
    Haplo I2c - 1

    Maternal lineages:

    East Asian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 83%):

    Haplo D4 - 19
    Haplo D4o1 - 9
    Haplo D5a - 1
    Haplo D5 - 1
    Haplo C - 4
    Haplo C4a1 - 1
    Haplo C5 - 1
    Haplo F1b - 4
    Haplo G2a - 1
    Haplo G2 - 1
    Haplo B4 - 1

    Uncertain origin mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 3%):

    Haplo M - 2

    West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 14%):

    Haplo U5a1a - 2
    Haplo U2e1 - 1
    Haplo U2 - 1
    Haplo J1 - 2
    Haplo H - 1
    Sorry to ask Tomenable, but which grave had I2c? Definitely not a haplogroup I'd expect amongst the huns. Actually, it would be cool if you link to the article mentioning these haplogroups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uche View Post
    Sino-Tibetian(Eastern Eurasian) and Turk languages(Western Eurasian) have no resemblance with each other, totally different types of languages. The term "Mongol" is only appeared in the 12th century AD, and the modern Mongol language is not equal to the medieval Mongols, who were just a tribe of the Turks. The Eastern Eurasian element within the modern Mongols have adopted the Turk language when Turkish tribes moved eastward in Eurasia. Think about it, why are the major groups of the modern Turks located in Western Eurasian regions? They did not fall from the sky into these regions. The Turkish element within the Japanese language is also very minimal, related to the migration of a small group of Huns. So, the fact is that the Turks migrated from Western Eurasian regions(which is their homeland) to Eastern Eurasian regions. How can we explain the fact that the archaeological and anthropological cultures of the Huns, Sarmatians and Pazyryk culture people are exactly the same? How can we explain the major Altaic/Dravidian element within the Sumerian language? How can we explain the tribe name "Turukku" within the Sumerians? It all ties up to the fact that the Proto Turks originated within the regions between the Urmia Region(Southern Caucasia) and Mesopotamia(reaching from Eastern Anatolia until the Levant Region).
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga
    Hahaha, now Turks are native to Kurdistan, hahaha?

    This ridiculous fantasy is not even worth another minute of my precious time. I'm not going to play your games and if you think I'm going to fall in your trap, then you are making a big mistake. I have seen this coming from the very beginning. I'm done with you. Bye bye.

    Not me, nor my opinion, everybody has an opnion. Opnions are useless, even brain dead people have one, but the ACADEMIA doesn't agree with you. If you have something usefull and scientific to say just write an academic paper or a book and try to persuade the minds of the establsihed scientists. It is up to you to prove the academia wrong. I have nothing to do with it. And since I'm not a Turk, nor Mongoloid, I'm not interested in Turkic or Mongoloid history in general.


    " Turkic languages, group of closely related languages that form a subfamily of the Altaic languages. The Turkic languages show close similarities to each other in phonology, morphology, and syntax, though Chuvash, Khalaj, and Sakha differ considerably from the rest. The earliest linguistic records are Old Turkic inscriptions, found near the Orhon River in Mongolia and the Yenisey River valley in south-central Russia, which date from the 8th century "

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Turkic-languages


    Just stop ridiculing the Turks. Have a nice day!



    Proto-Euphrato-Altaic is gaining supporters every day. They would be the ancestors of BMAC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Where did you take this languauge tree? What surprises me is that "magyar" = Hungarian appears as a branch of turkic

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    Quote Originally Posted by torokt View Post
    Where did you take this languauge tree? What surprises me is that "magyar" = Hungarian appears as a branch of turkic
    I guess, lingustic and historic facts were mixed in that tree. It should be Cuman language.

    Is there any clear effect of Cuman language in the modern Hungarian language?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    West Old Turkic: Turkic Loanwords in Hungarian

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...est-old-turkic

    The Hungarian language is the most important source for reconstructing the West Old Turkic language spoken west of the Ural in the 5th-12th centuries. The study by Árpád Berta and András Róna-Tas deals with the etymology of about 500 Hungarian words which are or may be of Old Turkic, in some cases of Middle Turkic origin. The Hungarian-Turkic contacts began in the 5th

    http://www.swedishcollegium.se/pdf/n...atas_berta.pdf






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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Three main Xiongnu Y hgs were C, Q and N. R was small minority.

    Here are ancient DNA samples of Xiongnu/Hunnu haplogroups:

    Places of origin of samples (four graveyards, not just one):

    1) Egin Gol river valley cemetery in Mongolia
    2) Duurling Nars cemetery in Mongolia
    3) Barköl cemetery in Xinjiang, China
    4) Birlik cemetery in Kazakhstan


    Paternal lineages:

    East Asian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 82%):

    Haplo C2e - 3
    Haplo C2 - 7
    Haplo C - 1
    Haplo Q1a2 - 3
    Haplo Q1a3a - 3
    Haplo Q1b - 1
    Haplo N1c-Tat - 3
    Haplo O3a2 - 1

    West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 18%):

    Haplo R1a - 3
    Haplo R1b - 1
    Haplo I2c - 1

    Maternal lineages:

    East Asian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 83%):

    Haplo D4 - 19
    Haplo D4o1 - 9
    Haplo D5a - 1
    Haplo D5 - 1
    Haplo C - 4
    Haplo C4a1 - 1
    Haplo C5 - 1
    Haplo F1b - 4
    Haplo G2a - 1
    Haplo G2 - 1
    Haplo B4 - 1

    Uncertain origin mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 3%):

    Haplo M - 2

    West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 14%):

    Haplo U5a1a - 2
    Haplo U2e1 - 1
    Haplo U2 - 1
    Haplo J1 - 2
    Haplo H - 1
    Xiungnu I2c ??? I'm so turned on by this.

    Why haven't I heard about this before? Tomenable please, can you provide the source for this finding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    Xiungnu I2c ??? I'm so turned on by this.

    Why haven't I heard about this before? Tomenable please, can you provide the source for this finding?
    This obscure Turkish forum reported it http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic....t=12458#p16151

    Genetic Analysis of a Scytho-Siberian Skeleton and Its Implications for Ancient Central Asian Migrations

    Tribe: Sakha(Scythian)
    Country: Altai Republic, Kızıl
    Time: 400-100 BCE
    MT-DNA: 1x N1a
    Y-DNA-Prediction: I2c(Mathieson et al 2015), G2a(Haak et al 2015), R1b(Allentoft et al 2015)
    And this is the paper in question Genetic Analysis of a Scytho-Siberian Skeleton and Its
    Implications for Ancient Central Asian Migrations


    I didn't find anything suggesting it could be I2c.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    Can you post a primary source?
    The Avestas bro

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    Don't know why I'm back on my Iron Age/Middle age steppe hordes BS.

    But as an appeal to @Alan, I would agree without question that the original templates upon which Iron Age and Middle Age steppe tribes were built were undoubtedly Bronze age Iranians and maybe even earlier Tocharians in some respects, the latter of which is mostly speculative. But too much mixing had happened since 2000 BC to call Huns and Mongols "Iranians".

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    Huns must be are mixed of r1a(east iranian) q(native americans,turkic) and c (mongols) and must be magyar peoples ( O and N)
    Turkic gokturk state have be relationship east iranians (like a sogdian) so we are euroasian / central asian.
    But first turks come from native american people and culture

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    Quote Originally Posted by XipeTotek View Post
    Huns must be are mixed of r1a(east iranian) q(native americans,turkic) and c (mongols) abd must be magyar peoples ( O and N)
    Magyars did not come up heavily N and O. Came up R1a, R1b, E1b1b, and J1.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...III-of-Hungary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Messier 67 View Post
    Magyars did not come up heavily N and O. Came up R1a, R1b, E1b1b, and J1.
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...III-of-Hungary
    how this possible. ural peoples come from o hablogroup and main hablogroup N. like a finnish peoples. may be they mixed other peoples later

    yes i can see on hungary dont have n hablogroup. its interesting. so it is a language change?

    they must be assimiliated scythians from ural peoples. central asia have so many culture, uralic, altaic, and indo european. they must be asimiliated indo european from uralic peoples. and attila is half mongoloid with slanted eyes i know it.

    if you say magyars dont come from N hablogroup, (only 0.5) they must be like a turkey turks now. we come from altaic hablogroups and speaking turkish but we have so little central asian hablogroups. this is a assimilation by the mongoloid/uralic/altaic for language

    and if you can see altaians hablogrop on the internet. they have so many r1a today.(mainly group is Q hablogroup) if altaians go to invade to europe you can see later they are must be totally r1a today. i think like that.

    turkic central peoples like this too. our mainly hablogroup Q but all central asians have so many r1a and r1b and o hablogroups. but q hablogroup so low. but their languages and genetics come from same ancestors with native americans.

    i think asian males not luckly than indo europeans. if this genetics explain for males, indo - european males more lucky than asians i think like that.

    and sexual selection working like this. african > indo european > asians i see like that for male dominant hablogroups for sexual selection chance

    this must be related and explain for me with why hungarian peoples have so many r1a or central asians.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by torokt View Post
    Where did you take this languauge tree? What surprises me is that "magyar" = Hungarian appears as a branch of turkic
    i think hungarians/ural languages close more japanese/korean languages than us.

    and turkic language family close to sumerian and native americans.

    because native americans come from same hablogroup Q with Turks

    uralic peoples come from same hablogroup O and N

    O peoples are chinese korean japanese, N people are uralic peoples.

    i dont know why native american languages dont added to turkic or altaic language, because they are come from same hablogroup and language. (trust me if you can search about native american languages you can see how similarity have with turkic languages.)

    i think in the soon of the time, science explain to us, sumerians, native americans and turkic peoples join the one language family and hablogroup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    again, R1a, Q1a2 and C series in Alati since neolithic



    Hollard et al., Strong genetic admixture in the Altai at the Middle Bronze Age.


    i in huns? who found it?

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    Country: Hungary



    r1a hunnic marker from duurling nars found by kim is hungarian, which was the subclade?

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    Tutkun Arnaut's Avatar
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    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by XipeTotek View Post
    i think hungarians/ural languages close more japanese/korean languages than us.

    and turkic language family close to sumerian and native americans.

    because native americans come from same hablogroup Q with Turks

    uralic peoples come from same hablogroup O and N

    O peoples are chinese korean japanese, N people are uralic peoples.

    i dont know why native american languages dont added to turkic or altaic language, because they are come from same hablogroup and language. (trust me if you can search about native american languages you can see how similarity have with turkic languages.)

    i think in the soon of the time, science explain to us, sumerians, native americans and turkic peoples join the one language family and hablogroup.
    who are the real Turks"? i mean today's turks are Anatolians speaking Turkic

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