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Thread: Italians of the Diaspora

  1. #76
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    I am an Italian-Anglo-Irish mix. Both of my paternal grandparents were born in Caria di Drapia, a small farming village on the slopes of Monte Poro, overlooking the Tyrrhenian Sea, with Stromboli in the distance. Down until the end of the Napoleonic era the area was dominated & ruled by the noble families of Tropea, a "free city" perhaps best conceived as miniature Venice of the South.

    So far as I know my ancestors lived as small freeholders on the Poro dating back at least until 1400, forming marriages with other families of the "Casali di Tropea." An agricultural crisis in the early 19th century left them desperate, however, and for a few generations they participated in the settlement of San Ferdinando, which involved draining malarial swamps to create the rich citrus groves that exist today, before returning to Caria by century's end. See http://www.tropeamagazine.it/sanferdinando

    In the 1920s my grandfather emigrated to Ambler, Pennsylvania, to work at Keasbey & Mattison, the world's largest asbestos manufacturer, discussed at length by Gay Talese in "Unto the Sons."

    I am now applying for Italian citizenship via my father's mother, who never naturalized. The process is expected to take 2.5 years, which should be enough time for me to acquire a reasonable knowledge of the language. I would like to return to Italy and start a family (assuming I am not too old, a sad biological possibility), hopefully in the city of Reggio.

    On Drapia in general (in Italian) =


    Brattiro circa 1960s =


    Sagra della 'Nduja -- Spilinga 1986


    The Coast of the Gods 1983 =


    The Aura of the Work of Art =

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    Very nice.

    Have you ever had "Nduja? It's delicious, but very hot. American chefs have recently caught on to it. In fact, it was just recently featured on a video at Bon Appetit where they put it on pizza. Jamie Oliver has a recipe for pasta using it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64mj4oR-0yw




    I'm not a big fan of this recipe, however. English made "Nduja? It looks all wrong. Plus, you have to blanch the cime di rapa for a few minutes before frying, and parmigiano is the WRONG cheese for something this spicy.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Have you ever had "Nduja?
    Alienated and declasse person that I am, existing on the fringes of society, I of course just happen to manage an Italian restaurant. We used to have a retail counter, manned by a Sardinian gentleman trained in the art of slicing & arranging tissue-thin prosciutto, and 'nduja was among the products on offer. Unfortunately the retail counter was not a viable proposition, very hard to compete with the Eataly's and Citarella's of the world, and once the Sardinian abruptly quit in a tizzy, the counter lost its raison d'etat.

    However, in conducting online genealogical research (in truth "hopping" onto other people's research), I discovered that my family inter-married several times in the 1800s with the Barbalace clan, whose patriarch Pasquale Barbalace, of the village of Carciadi (separated by a moat from Spilinga), was the very first settler of San Ferdinando. Accordingly, I googled Barbalace to see what I could learn of them, and this is what I discovered = https://njmonthly.com/articles/eat-d...er-shop-nduja/

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    Wow. That makes you alienated and declasse? In New York????

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    The Altamuran Revolution (Italian: Rivoluzione di Altamura, also Rivoluzione altamurana) was a three month period of self-government of Italian town Altamura, right after the birth of the Parthenopean Republic (23 January 1799) which ousted the Bourbons and the Kingdom of Naples. The city of the Kingdom of Naples was then defeated and taken by the so-called Sanfedisti, led by cardinal Fabrizio Ruffo, after a battle on the city walls. After being defeated, most Altamurans managed to flee from porta Bari, one of Altamura's main gates.


    In February 1799, the news that the king had fled to Palermo arrived in Altamura. Altamura population then reorganized and embraced the ideals propagated by the French Revolution. The Liberty Tree was also planted in what it was then called piazza del mercato (today it's called piazza Duomo). In the meantime, the Sanfedisti,led by the cardinal Fabrizio Ruffo, were getting closer and closer, determined to restore the Kingdom of Naples and the Bourbons dynasty. Sanfedisti left Matera and arrived at the gates of Altamura on 9 May 1799. Altamura had already fixed everything before the battle, by closing the secondary city gates, fusing the church bells in order to make new cannons and preparing ammunition. On 9 May, the battle took place, but soon Altamurans ran off of ammunition and they started to shoot coins. This let the enemy realize that the situation inside the city was critical and that they wouldn't last for long. On the night of 9 May 1799, most Altamurans managed to escape from porta Bari (perhaps accidentally or thanks to Ruffo unbeknown to his troops). On the morning of 10 May, Sanfedisti entered Altamura, sacking and slaughtering an unknown number of Altamurans who had remained there. The stay of Sanfedisti and Ruffo inside the city lasted 14 days, during which Altamurans gradually returned and some of them were killed or imprisoned. By the end of May 1799, the situation had already normalized and Altamura had returned under the full control of the Kingdom of Naples.


    The number of deaths among Sanfedisti has been estimated at around 1,400 people, but it is not clear how many Altamurans were killed. Some historians estimated the losses among Altamurans from about forty to a hundred people, while other historians suggested that many Altamurans and Neapolitan Jacobin people from other cities may have been counted as Sanfedisti. In this case, the death toll among Altamurans and Parthenopean Republicans would be much higher.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamuran_Revolution
    Here's an interesting snippet of history I read about my father's town. They tried to start an uprising in 1799 based on the ideals of the French Revolution. Goes to show that despite centuries of foreign-feudalism, there were Italians in the South that wanted to create a new state based on freedom and liberty.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Here's an interesting snippet of history I read about my father's town. They tried to start an uprising in 1799 based on the ideals of the French Revolution. Goes to show that despite centuries of foreign-feudalism, there were Italians in the South that wanted to create a new state based on freedom and liberty.
    Very interesting, Jovialis. Thanks.

    It reminds me an interesting article I read time ago, from William Howard Adams. It shows the influence of the laws of Venice over American Constitution.
    The Virginians and the Veneto:
    http://www.vqronline.org/essay/virginians-and-veneto

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    Cool, Thanks for sharing, Regio X!

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Here's an interesting snippet of history I read about my father's town. They tried to start an uprising in 1799 based on the ideals of the French Revolution. Goes to show that despite centuries of foreign-feudalism, there were Italians in the South that wanted to create a new state based on freedom and liberty.
    I would much rather celebrate the first great Counter-Revolutionary, the warrior-priest Fabrizio Ruffo.

    https://realcasadiborbone.it/en/il-c...iloborboniche/

    Or for a highly entertaining work of historical fiction, I would point you to "Ruffo in Calabria" by Peter Nichols, which I have mentioned elsewhere on Eupedia.

    IMG_1549.jpg

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    Among Ruffo's ancestors were his namesake, Fabrizio Ruffo, who captured three Ottoman galleys at Candia in 1661, and the great patron of the arts Antonio Ruffo, who sponsored works by Rembrandt, Ribera, Guercino, Salvator Rosa, Van Dyk, Artemisia, and others.

    See the discussion of Antonio Ruffo in "Patrons & Painters: A Study in the Relations Between Italian Art and Society in the Age of the Baroque" ------>>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=Sd...=ruffo&f=false


    And see this video, in Italian, concerning Rembrandt's Aristotle Contemplating the Bust of Homer, commissioned by Ruffo


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Give it a rest. The Bourbon rulers of Sicily and Southern Italy were terrible stewards of the land and the people. Most of the latter lived in appalling conditions until after they were gone.

    The same was true for the people of the Veneto under their own oligarchs, unfortunately.

    If people knew more history, and didn't substitute ideology for facts, there wouldn't be debate about these things.

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    It is certainly debatable whether Italian unification was good for the South, and, more generally, whether bourgeois rule (post-1789) has been good for the long-term interests of Europe.

    I'll side with Lampedusa on this one, thank you.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Very interesting, Jovialis. Thanks.

    It reminds me an interesting article I read time ago, from William Howard Adams. It shows the influence of the laws of Venice over American Constitution.
    The Virginians and the Veneto:
    http://www.vqronline.org/essay/virginians-and-veneto
    i think the difference was slavery more than anything else

    https://www.academia.edu/217551/Dome...aissance_Italy

    https://journals.openedition.org/cdlm/7194#tocfrom1n2
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

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    Angela, you and I should meet in person, in NYC, so that you may establish your greater intellect, and I my greater charisma. It is ridiculous for you to refer to ideologues, when in fact the Jacobins were the ideologues. Fabrizio Ruffo was the great defender of traditional, organic society. It gives me great pleasure to inform you that I have his portrait on my wall.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.


    Altamura population then reorganized and embraced the ideals propagated by the French Revolution. The Liberty Tree was also planted in what it was then called piazza del mercato (today it's called piazza Duomo).


    In those days, the liberty tree wasn't just a symbol, it had utility. I wonder if the Altamurans used it in the same way. I'd like to learn more about this affair.

    Even after the revolution, liberty trees remained a potent symbol of the power of rebellion and public protest. When revolution broke out in France in 1789, revolutionaries began to name and plant their own liberty trees, and the custom also sprang up in Italy and Germany.

    https://www.history.com/news/liberty...olutionary-war

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    Angela, my apologies. I was rather drunk when I addressed you in my last post here (#88 on this thread). I was pixilated by an orange wine, Albana di Romagna, which I recommend, albeit in moderation. But yes, I do in fact have reproductions of portraits of Cardinal Ruffo and Roger II on my wall.

    Jovialis, you really should read the Peter Nichols novel, it's pretty even-handed and about the only extensive treatment of this episode in Southern Italian history that you are likely to find in English.

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    I'm hardly the kind of person who would have been in favor of the extreme Jacobins. I strike you as the kind of person who would have supported the Terror in Paris? Neither, however, would I ever lionize reactionaries. They instituted their own reign of terror, which you conveniently fail to mention, and not only in Italy.

    Sometimes it seems to me that the main difference between the Nazis and the Communists is that the Eastern European Communists weren't as organized and industrialized as the German Fascists, and they didn't have that sick obsession with ethnicity. Same in Cuba, Southeast Asia, you name it. Also, of course, the media always hid and continues to hide the evil that the Communists perpetrated. It still goes on today. Just the other day I heard someone speak approvingly of Lillian Hellman. I find it amazing. She was a complete apologist for evil of the worst kind.

    That's why extremists on both sides of the political spectrum are dangerous and must be answered, and why people must work against the implementation of their political agendas.

    We now know where you stand. There will be no propagandizing of extreme ideologies here, neither of the left or the right.

    Keep to academic subjects, or at least non political ones, and try to keep commentary as objective and free of biases as possible.

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    Angela, perhaps my link to the Bourbon website was unfortunate, but I thought it gave a nice account of Cardinal Ruffo. I am not a Neo-Bourbon fanatic, and the Ruffo family in any case goes back to Norman times, if not further (some say Byzantine antecedents).

    And I suspect you are unfamiliar with Peter Nichols. His book on Cardinal Ruffo hardly qualifies as propaganda. The mood of the book is one of deep ambivalence, and told from the perspective of a fictitious schoolteacher who accompanied Ruffo on his campaign. The teacher serves as Ruffo's emissary to Crotone and, yes, Altamura, which is why the book should be of particular interest to Jovialis.

    Peter Nichols is also the author of "Politics of the Vatican" (1967) and "Italia, Italia" (1974)

    This is the Kirkus Review of "Italia, Italia" ----> https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-r...italia-italia/

    And this is the Kirkus Review of "Politics of the Vatican" ---->https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-r...f-the-vatican/

    But yes, your instincts about me (as opposed to Nichols) are accurate insofar as I do not support the political center or our current elites, who are pretty damn dangerous, nay, destructive, and have been left unanswered for far too long.

    And that is all I shall say. My apologies for responding to Jovialis in good faith, who, I should point out, raised this "non academic" subject.

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