upside-down pyramids?

[johen]

Maybe related to ANE culture also:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...564#post493564
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...822#post493822 (#8)

“An archeologist takes photo for unearthed cultural relics in an ancient tomb at Chenpo Village of Xiangfan, a city in central China's Hubei province. Archeologists have almost completed the excavation of a small ancient tomb dating back to the Period of Warring States (475-221 B.C.) at Chenpo Village”


Xioungnu tomb: “The burial constructions of Xiongnu chiefs and other highranking tribesmen emerged on the steppe in the threshold of the eras. These constructions resembled the burial sites of the Qin and Early Han nobility. “
http://www.kaogu.cn/en/Special_Event...222/52514.html


http://scfh.ru/en/papers/complete-th...f-the-heavens/

Olmec Chalcatzingo stone carving relic


“Chacana Symbol-Tree of Life” (Picture from Aztec and Maya by Fejervary-Mayer)

“Ya” Shape

The “ya” symbol represents the center of the universe; Two stone carvings are found in an important ruin, Chalcatzingo, of the Olmec culture in Mexico. The stone carvings depict zoomorphic figures with a mouth wide open representing the door between the worlds of the living and the dead. The opening of the mouth divides the boundaries between heaven and earth while the four corners facing inward allow space for four respective trees. The ya shape represents a cosmic diagram for the Olmec people with a big mouth and boundaries of heaven and earth in the four corners. Moreover, the trees assist in traversing between heaven and earth known as the four "cosmic trees”. This picture, the earth is square, but at each corner there are four trees, resulting in an inverted corner and creating a “ya” shape. In looking back at the “ya” shape, it raises a question: Did the “ya” shape from the Shang dynasty also form this way? Regarding Zong Miao Ming Tang that contains four cosmic trees, either “ruo tree”, “jian mu”, or “fusang”, were there indents because of these trees? In other words, is it because the Zong Miao Ming Tang had four trees, which resulted in the “ya” shape?
Note: KC Chang, Qingtong Huichen

http://www.ancient-encounters.com/AESE/Discovery.html

[LeBrok]

Cool, I have never seen it.

[johen]

Maybe related to ANE culture also:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...564#post493564
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...822#post493822 (#8)

“An archeologist takes photo for unearthed cultural relics in an ancient tomb at Chenpo Village of Xiangfan, a city in central China's Hubei province. Archeologists have almost completed the excavation of a small ancient tomb dating back to the Period of Warring States (475-221 B.C.) at Chenpo Village”


Xioungnu tomb: “The burial constructions of Xiongnu chiefs and other highranking tribesmen emerged on the steppe in the threshold of the eras. These constructions resembled the burial sites of the Qin and Early Han nobility. “
http://www.kaogu.cn/en/Special_Event...222/52514.html

looks like exactly upside-down of central america Q1a2 Pyramid, especially temple of the warriors:
https://quadralectics.wordpress.com/...-inca-temples/



see the Qin Shi Huang's pyarmid, what is his ethnicity?, Is he pure Q1a2 people or not?:

http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancie...reasure-002568

And Qin Shi Huang's tomb is also thought to be encircled with rivers of liquid mercury, which the ancient Chinese believed could bestow immortality.

http://www.livescience.com/22454-anc...-warriors.html

An archaeologist has discovered liquid mercury at the end of a tunnel beneath a Mexican pyramid, a finding that could suggest the existence of a king’s tomb or a ritual chamber far below one of the most ancient cities of the Americas.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...id-teotihuacan

[johen]

Analysis of the Origin of Han Culture in Archaeological and Historical Linguistic Perspective


XIE Ruo-qiu(Department of Chinese Language and Literature,Jieyang Vocational & Technical College,Jieyang,Guangdong 522000,China)

There are many issues that seem related to the initial formation process of the Chinese language in the study of Chinese history.The recent archaeological research shows that just as Chinese civilization is a pluralistic and mixed one,so can Chinese be very similar to it. Archaeology has confirmed that Xia Dynasty,Shang Dynasty and Zhou Dynasty originated differently and their respective languages were naturally different,too.However,the three dynasties had close relationship with each other,so their languages had natural links. And another notable fact is that Zhou Dynasty originated in part with Hudi tribe in North China.Therefore,we can draw the conclusion that the formation of Chinese is a complicated blending process.

It explains the situation before Qin shi Huang unified ancient China. The Qin was a feudal kingdom of Zhou dynasty, hence, zhou people and Qin people were same people. As far as I know, the HU in Hudi tribe means barbarian, the Di means Xioungnu. I need another different opinion about the Qin AND Hudi tribe.

The important thing here is :

Using a less typological approach, Western and Japanese scholars have also analyzed craniofacial metric traits in world populations (Fig. 7.3). They observed that the Mongolian Bronze Age Chandman and Mongol Hunnu (Xiongnu) appeared similar to modern Native Americans from the Great Lakes regions, as well as prehistoric Archaic Period individuals from North America (Brace et al 2001; Seguchi 2004). Interestingly, the Mongolian Chandman sample was not closely related to the roughly contemporaneous Chinese Bronze Age sample from Anyang. Nor were Mongols closely related to the Mongolian Chandman, the Mongol Hunnu, or the late Paleolithic Chinese Upper Cave 101 sample. These patterns suggested biological differences between the Upper Paleolithic inhabiants of greater Northeast Asia and the Neolithic people who later expanded into Siberia and East Asia, as well as the influence of later Europeans on Bronze Age Mongolia.

- Regarding shang(anyang), there is no research paper of royal elite except human sacrifice sample buried in pit.

[johen]

Analysis of the Origin of Han Culture in Archaeological and Historical Linguistic Perspective


XIE Ruo-qiu(Department of Chinese Language and Literature,Jieyang Vocational & Technical College,Jieyang,Guangdong 522000,China)

There are many issues that seem related to the initial formation process of the Chinese language in the study of Chinese history.The recent archaeological research shows that just as Chinese civilization is a pluralistic and mixed one,so can Chinese be very similar to it. Archaeology has confirmed that Xia Dynasty,Shang Dynasty and Zhou Dynasty originated differently and their respective languages were naturally different,too.However,the three dynasties had close relationship with each other,so their languages had natural links. And another notable fact is that Zhou Dynasty originated in part with Hudi tribe in North China.Therefore,we can draw the conclusion that the formation of Chinese is a complicated blending process.

3.7 NEOLITHIC CHINA: BEFORE THE SHANG DYNASTY
http://www.indiana.edu/~g380/3.7-Neolithic-2010.pdf

The study of the great variety of these cultures is useful in highlighting the basic fact that the people of ancient China represented a complex ethnic mix, quite different from the picture that later texts portray of the gradual evolution and embellishment of a monolithic cultural entity, emerging from the time of the Yellow Emperor and maturing under the sage kings and Three Dynasties (Xia, Shang, and Zhou).

JETIMAR: Cultures Ethnic Groups West of China

The victorious Chou installed a new dynasty there, whose symbol could be aprototype of the "tamgas" used during later periods by the peoples of the steppes (VajnandNovogorodova)
The daggers are of form known from the Ordos region,and may have belonged to the guards accompanying the new ruler. Of decisive importance are four horn psalia or cheekpieces (KK 1976: fig.18, 4) withthree perforations, the middle one perpendicular to the others, which were found together with horse bit made of bronze in grave M2. They correspond to a type known in theEarly Iron Age (Be1ogrudovsk and the Early Cernolessk cultures) of the forest steppes inthe Dnieper regions (Terenozkin 1958; 1965; Grakov 1977). The date is twelfth to ninthcenturies B.C. A similar cheekpiece was found in a slab-grave in Transbaikalia; among theso-called Ordos bronzes there is a replica in metal 1970).

---> As far as I know, the Di tribe lived in Ordos region of inner mongloia, where Xiuongnu originated in.

The Rise of Agricultural Civilization in China:The Disparity between Archeological Discovery andthe Documentary Record and Its ExplanationbyZhou JixuCenter for East Asian Studies, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PennsylvaniaChinese Department, Sichuan Normal University, Chengdu, Sichuan

we know that the Rong and Di were the same group with different names.

The Zhou and the Rong Were Blood RelativesThe relationship between the Zhou and the Rong people can be observed from the relationshipbetween the people of the Jin kingdom and the Rong. The Jin was a vassal kingdom established in thebeginning of the Zhou dynasty. The first king of the Jin kingdom was the prince Tang Shu, who wasthe younger brother of King Cheng, the second king of the Zhou dynasty. The peers of the Jinkingdom shared the same surname with the royal family of the Zhou dynasty and were their directconsanguine relatives. The relation between the Jin people and the Rong and Di can stand for therelationship between the Zhou people and the Rong and Di.

Unlike the Yangshao and Hemudu people, who came from southern China, the Huang Di nation came from west of China, from the western part of the Eurasian continent. They conquered the native people of the Yellow River and the Yangtze River, who possessed a developed agricultural culture. By combining their own imported cultural factors with those of the native culture, the Huang Di people gradually developed a splendid new civilization in the Xia, Shang, and Zhou dynasties. They superseded the original native people to take the leading role on the stage of Chinese history. That the Huang Di nation was a branch of the archaic Indo-European people is one of the most remarkable facts thus far known to human history. But a large number of Indo-European words in Old Chinese language clearly attest to this fact. The relics left by the Huang Di people are related to the Longshan Culture in the archaeological chronicle, and the civilization of the Xia, Shang, Zhou, and Qin秦 dynasties were its successors.27 Evidence for this claim comes from two sources: the first uses the evidence of ancient documents to show that the Zhou people, and thus the Yellow Emperor’s nation, were originally a nomadic people, and the second is to reveal that there were a large number of Indo-European words in the Zhou language, using the evidence of historical linguistics. The third is the similarity in religion between the Huang Di people and Proto-Indo-European. As to the last point, please refer to the author’s paper “Old Chinese ‘帝*tees’ and Proto-Indo-European ‘*deus’: Similarity in Religious Ideas and a Common Source in Linguistics” (Zhou 2005).

The Original Meaning of “Rong 戎” According to Professor Yu Min: “ … [The word ‘Rong 戎’] was meant to indicate a style of life—nomadism—in the spoken language of the Zhou dynasty. The seed of agriculture was germinated in the period of Shennong (神农Holy Peasant). Whoever reverted to the life of the nomads could be called ‘Rong’” (Yu Min 1999: 210). Accepting the meaning “nomadism” for the word “Rong戎” in archaic times, we now turn to the corresponding word “Rong” in the Proto-Indo-European languages.45 The origin of “nomad” is quoted from The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology (p. 613): nomad adoption of French nomade, Latin Nomad-, Nomas, pl. Nomades pastoral people wandering about with their flocks. Adoption of Greek nomad-, nomás roaming about, esp. for pasture, pl. Nomádes pastoral people, formed on *nom-, *nem- (némein pasture)… Rong 戎, Old Chinese *num > *nung, Middle Chinese nžong, Mandarin rong. Shuo Wen Jie Zi (The Analysis and Annotation of Characters, Xu Shen, 121 AD): “Qiang 羌, the western Rong people who live on pasturage of sheep (or goats).” (羌，西戎牧羊人也。) It is clear that the root of Proto-Indo-European *nom- is a cognate of OC *num. The sounds and the meanings are both equivalent. This is a good example of the fact that there were PIE words in the Old Chinese language.

[johen]

Mayan and hindu pyramid similarity :

https://pparihar.com/2015/10/06/hind...culture-proof/

another mayan type pyramid in china

https://ancient-code.com/the-great-p...on-the-planet/

Ancient records preserved in an old monastery near the Mongolian border describe the Xian pyramid.

The structure was said to measure 1,000 feet in height which made it the highest pyramid in the world (the Great Pyramid of Egypt is 450 feet in height).

According to the monastic documents the pyramid was already extremely old when the records were made.
In the valleys surrounding the Xian pyramid were dozens of other pyramids, some rising to an elevation almost as great.
Surviving traces of original pigments show that the Xian pyramid was painted with different colours on each on its four flanks.
The east side was bluish grey, with white facing the west, black on the north, and red on the south.

It should be noted that other ancient monuments such as the Maya, Aztecs, and many Indian tribes of North America associated the four cardinal directions with different colours.
In 1994, archaeologists discovered several pyramids near the Wei River, north of Xian. Hausdorf estimates there may be as many 90 to 100 pyramids in China, including the White Pyramid which is the highest of them all. All of them are mostly unheard of in the Western world.

==> Where is their blue print?
Maybe here


http://www.altrimenti.net/2014/11/ok...o-agarthi.html

or

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandal..._Institute.jpg

A mandala (Sanskrit: मण्डल, maṇḍala; literally "circle") is a spiritual and ritual symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism, representing the universe.[1] In common use, "mandala" has become a generic term for any diagram, chart or geometric pattern that represents the cosmos metaphysically or symbolically; a microcosm of the universe. The basic form of most mandalas is a square with four gates containing a circle with a center point. Each gate is in the general shape of a T.[2][3] Mandalas often exhibit radial balance.[4] The term appears in the Rigveda as the name of the sections of the work, and Vedic rituals use Mandalas such as Navagraha mandala to this day. Mandala is also used in Buddhism. In various spiritual traditions, mandalas may be employed for focusing attention of practitioners and adepts, as a spiritual guidance tool, for establishing a sacred space and as an aid to meditation and trance induction.

==> Did R1a-z93 and Q1a go to India and china around 1,800bc with the basic software of pyramid or mayan culture rooted in altai?
like this:

http://cogniarchae.com/2016/11/06/th...headed-figure/

At the similar time, some bronze people entered the Greece. That is a mistery, which Harvard lab should solve with the following samples next time, or greek anthropologist sample of 1950 research. This type of people disappeared in East Europe since gracile yamna and sintasha from cromagnon. The gracile factor looks like being from CHG, and EEF. EHG skull is "short skull, broad face and upper facial flatness and convex nose, which is a description of cromagnon, I think. That is why every russian anthropologist said that bronze steppe people broadly looks like cromagon and UP type, saying that the steppe people originated in cromagnon, I think.

The greatest work by Dr. C Loring Brace(2003): the greek bronze people are EXTEMELY close to cromagnon, which means very primitive skull type and totally different from neolithic farmer:


Heracle slaying Hydra

http://cogniarchae.com/2016/11/06/th...headed-figure/


Mycenaean Tholos Tomb horse burial:

http://lyk-ag-triad.arg.sch.gr/dendr...20burials.html

[johen]

see the Qin Shi Huang's pyarmid, what is his ethnicity?, Is he pure Q1a2 people or not?:

Unlike the Yangshao and Hemudu people, who came from southern China, the Huang Di nation came from west of China, from the western part of the Eurasian continent. They conquered the native people of the Yellow River and the Yangtze River, who possessed a developed agricultural culture. By combining their own imported cultural factors with those of the native culture, the Huang Di people gradually developed a splendid new civilization in the Xia, Shang, and Zhou dynasties. They superseded the original native people to take the leading role on the stage of Chinese history. That the Huang Di nation was a branch of the archaic Indo-European people is one of the most remarkable facts thus far known to human history. But a large number of Indo-European words in Old Chinese language clearly attest to this fact. The relics left by the Huang Di people are related to the Longshan Culture in the archaeological chronicle, and the civilization of the Xia, Shang, Zhou, and Qin秦 dynasties were its successors.27 Evidence for this claim comes from two sources: the first uses the evidence of ancient documents to show that the Zhou people, and thus the Yellow Emperor’s nation, were originally a nomadic people, and the second is to reveal that there were a large number of Indo-European words in the Zhou language, using the evidence of historical linguistics. The third is the similarity in religion between the Huang Di people and Proto-Indo-European. As to the last point, please refer to the author’s paper “Old Chinese ‘帝*tees’ and Proto-Indo-European ‘*deus’: Similarity in Religious Ideas and a Common Source in Linguistics” (Zhou 2005).

http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancie...reasure-002568

Another pyramid inside pyramid by Hg Q, but different pattern

Archaeologists have discovered a second structure within the famous pyramid of Kukulkan at the Mayan ruins of Chichen Itza. Last year, archaeologists used electrical imaging techniques to find that the pyramid, which is also known as El Castillo, was built atop a subterranean river, or a cenote. Experts have long known that a smaller pyramid is encapsulated underneath the visible temple. Today they said they had detected an even smaller structure inside the outer two layers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...chen-Itza.html

[johen]

Pyramid El Castillo:

http://casadelmayordomo.com/english/...llo/index.html

"Gandau" statues used in Kalash funery art:

http://understanding-our-past.blogsp...andau-and.html


Modern pachisi board game in India:


http://www.davidpratt.info/americas1.htm

[johen]

I already asked where is the civilization of Q people in altai bronze.
Their culture is the same as mesoamerican culture. Both have a same civilization creator, serpent and feathered God Votan which is the same concept of Indra and Zeus, and chines Di also
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....tai-petroglyph

Here is another step pyramid in west China, shimao:

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/9...-1200x1079.jpg

https://www.archaeology.org/images/N...ep-Pyramid.jpg

A 4,300-year-old city, which has a massive step pyramid that is at least 230 feet (70 meters) high and spans 59 acres (24 hectares) at its base, has been excavated in China, archaeologists reported in the August issue of the journal Antiquity.
The pyramid was decorated with eye symbols and "anthropomorphic," or part-human, part-animal faces. Those figures "may have endowed the stepped pyramid with special religious power and further strengthened the general visual impression on its large audience," the archaeologists wrote in the article. [The 25 Most Mysterious Archaeological Finds on Earth]
For five centuries, a city flourished around the pyramid. At one time, the city encompassed an area of 988 acres (400 hectares), making it one of the largest in the world, the archaeologists wrote. Today, the ruins of the city are called "Shimao," but its name in ancient times is unknown.
The pyramid contains 11 steps, each of which was lined with stone. On the topmost step, there "were extensive palaces built of rammed earth, with wooden pillars and roofing tiles, a gigantic water reservoir, and domestic remains related to daily life," the researchers wrote.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristin.../#c05461e44b9a
https://www.livescience.com/63406-ma...hed-china.html

Shimao's significance is twofold. First of all, a previously unrecognised Neolithic community has been identified with many unusual practices, including, most notably, large-scale stone fortifications—implying a competitive or even hostile social environment—and the presence of bronze knives, arrowheads and ornaments, comparable with those of similar periods in the steppe, alongside jade and Longshan-type pottery, with strong links to wider, central-Chinese Neolithic developments. Secondly, the site and the associated areas with similar stone fortified centres were evidently important links between the peoples of the steppe, in present-day Inner Mongolia and farther north, and the much better-known large sites at Taosi and Erlitou, regarded as the founding centres of China's Bronze Age culture

https://static.cambridge.org/resourc...ub-status=live

Figure 4. Drawing of three single-edged knives: a) of the Elunio culture, 2000–1800 BC, Russian Altai, length around 220mm; b) from Shimao, 2000–1800 BC, length around 100mm:c) Erlitou, 1700–1600 BC, length around 255mm (drawing by John Rawson).

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...5F/core-reader

These new observations suggest that the distribution of metal spearheads from the Seima-Turbino Culture to northern China represents the diffusion and spread of the metallurgical technique. From the metallurgical perspective in particular, the bronze casting of spearheads indicates the origin of piece-mould casting and core-casting technology, which influenced the bronze vessel casting method in China. We therefore suggest that the early Chinese metallurgy of the Lower Xiajiadian Culture in the western Liao River area can be linked to the Seima-Turbino Culture; this technique had spread from the Altai Mountain area to northern China via the Taosi Culture. After spreading to the Lower Xiajiadian Culture, it finally arrived at the Qijia Culture of Qinghai and Gansu provinces in the west

Elunio culture is a seima turbino culture, where 1Q was found so far.
shimao and seima same linguistics root?

[johen]

see the Qin Shi Huang's pyarmid, what is his ethnicity?, Is he pure Q1a2 people or not?:




http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-asia/secret-tomb-first-chinese-emperor-remains-unopened-treasure-002568

And Qin Shi Huang's tomb is also thought to be encircled with rivers of liquid mercury, which the ancient Chinese believed could bestow immortality

An archaeologist has discovered liquid mercury at the end of a tunnel beneath a Mexican pyramid, a finding that could suggest the existence of a king’s tomb or a ritual chamber far below one of the most ancient cities of the Americas.

I think this people really kept the philosophy of mayby ancient altai more than Mayan, enough to build step pyramid up and down leading to underworld & heaven.



http://mexico-rivieramaya.eu/index.php?page=kosmologie

Graves go down five steps and ended with the steep and deep pit. Special digging platforms were constructed inside the graves; traces of such constructions were noted in the grave walls at Noyon Uul barrows 20, 31 and 22. A dromos leads to the upper portion of the grave. A hoist was used for dropping wooden elements of the burial structure and coffin with the dead body into the tomb. The burial construction resembles the Zhou, Qin and early Han tombs in China.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-Qin-shi-huang

[Vandemonian]

Wow - the similarities between these monuments really is striking. I wonder how much of this is a reaction to natural principles (e.g. structures are sturdiest when they are widest at the base; things with similar numbers are easily associated, etc) and how much is the result of intercultural communication.

[johen]

Wow - the similarities between these monuments really is striking. I wonder how much of this is a reaction to natural principles (e.g. structures are sturdiest when they are widest at the base; things with similar numbers are easily associated, etc) and how much is the result of intercultural communication.

I think you do not know that altai bronze people had the same skull and Y-DNA of American Indian and American indian culture also. Actually american indian originated in the Altai. The altai people also had same concept of mesoamerican creator to be connected to zeus, Indra and chinses Di (Lord).


It is ok, even most of modern archeologists don’t know. So Chinese scholars think that their ancient people migrated to Mesoamerica, but south Indians think their ancestors did that:
http://www.ancient-encounters.com/AESE/Encounters.html

Harvard scholar K.C Chang, an expert about china bronze, had a different opinion that Mayan and chinses have a common ancestor during paleo times. Yes, he is almost correct. However, their ancestors were different.

The only thing we can know so far is that the altai bronze culture entered china with tons of IE, south east asia, India, and maybe greek also (this is my checkmate)
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....tai-petroglyph

[johen]

I already asked where is the civilization of Q people in altai bronze.
Their culture is the same as mesoamerican culture. Both have a same civilization creator, serpent and feathered God Votan which is the same concept of Indra and Zeus, and chines Di also
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....tai-petroglyph

Here is another step pyramid in west China, shimao:

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/9...-1200x1079.jpg

https://www.archaeology.org/images/N...ep-Pyramid.jpg


https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristin.../#c05461e44b9a
https://www.livescience.com/63406-ma...hed-china.html




https://static.cambridge.org/resourc...ub-status=live

Figure 4. Drawing of three single-edged knives: a) of the Elunio culture, 2000–1800 BC, Russian Altai, length around 220mm; b) from Shimao, 2000–1800 BC, length around 100mm:c) Erlitou, 1700–1600 BC, length around 255mm (drawing by John Rawson).

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...5F/core-reader



Elunio culture is a seima turbino culture, where 1Q was found so far.
shimao and seima same linguistics root?

Seima turbino people seems to be pyramid builder like mesoamerica people, which can solve the questions of why hindu pyramid and chinese pyramid have same type of mesoamerican pyramids

antennae sword,1500–500 b.c. copper hoard india



seima turbino two snake head sword. this two snake concept is extremely important, maybe connecting twin concept also, I don't need to explain how important the snake concept in Hindu culture is, being ignored by scholars:





sarmatian sword:

[arkleogist]

I can't post links here but search great bath mohenjo daro .It may be an origin for Chinese stepped tomb.

Search uncovered history elephants of copan. "It is then clear that the elephant trunks are actually the jaw of a serpent-monster, which hangs down wide open and continues downward to the double-headed serpent bar, which rests in 18-Rabbit’s hands, and forms the lower jaw. This completes a fairly common sight; the king resting in the jaws of a creation monster." The carvings can't be a macaw parrot which has 2 beaks not 1.

Makara (Sanskrit: मकर crocodile) is a sea-creature in Hindu culture. It is generally depicted as half terrestrial animal in the frontal part (stag, deer or elephant) . In other words, Shiv being the god of destruction is perfectly suited for makara. The impressive portion is how the makara symbolism have sprouted all over history ever since its first found depiction in the Indus civilization – from coins in Mohenjo Daro in 2000 BC. Hence the lion carries the spirit of fury and that of involution. Assisted by the makara they do make a fearsome duo. However, the two together also represents the ability of the makara to absolve fury or destroy involution. Now involution can go both ways – change for the good or for the bad; and so can the makara – it can represent death or new life (from its sprouting vegetation as discussed earlier). In order words, Shiv has the ability to destroy what he sees fit and hence is to be feared.

Search for borobudur makara in Images for elephant makara. The beast became China's Mójiézuò lóng zhù, Makara dragon pillar of the heavens in the Temple of Harvests with crocodile water-spouts . The ceremony is in mid-winter of Capricorn , as is Hindu Makara festival like Babylon's mid-winter Capricorn goat-fish, Suhurmash , mash fish. Sanskrit machch fish . Hindi magar machchh crocodile.

[johen]

I can't post links here but search great bath mohenjo daro .It may be an origin for Chinese stepped tomb. .

I think the steppe tomb is related with underworld. I don't think any bath structure can be linked with underworld, death:
http://mexico-rivieramaya.eu/uploads...ecosmology.jpg

[arkleogist]

And according to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, 390 deaths a year on average are attributed to drowning in a swimming pool or at a spa.

The 'makara borobudur' images have a person underneath the monster. The Copan site says " This completes a fairly common sight; the king resting in the jaws of a creation monster." The Mohenjo Daro pool may have been for arising from one life to another , perhaps a king taking power. Babylon's father-god Ea arose from the deep sea as "antelope of the depths".

"Mikveh or mikvah is a bath used for the purpose of ritual immersion in Judaism to achieve ritual purity.
For example, Jews who (according to the Law of Moses) became ritually defiled by contact with a corpse had to use the mikvah before being allowed to participate in the Holy Temple. Immersion is required for converts to Judaism as part of their conversion. Immersion in the mikvah represents a change in status in regards to purification, restoration, and qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community, ensuring that the cleansed person will not impose uncleanness on property or its owners. It did not become customary, however, to immerse converts to Judaism until after the Babylonian Captivity. ( 6th cent BCE)".

[johen]

And according to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, 390 deaths a year on average are attributed todrowning in a swimming pool or at a spa.

The 'makara borobudur' images have a person underneath the monster. The Copan site says " This completes a fairly common sight; the king resting in the jaws of a creation monster." The Mohenjo Daro pool may have been for arising from one life to another , perhaps a king taking power. Babylon's father-god Ea arose from the deep sea as "antelope of the depths".

As far as I know, the US swimming problem has something to do with child's foot stuck in drainage hole. I think pool itself has nothing to do with death.

If the mohenjo daro bath would be connected to the other world, we can think chinese shang royal tomb or
darius tomb. I think this kind of culture is closely related with mesoamerica's "ya" shape also. Of course, we already knew that west siberian hunter gathered entered IVC, being buried in supine position.

shang tomb:
http://buddhist-art.arthistory.north...-1040-012.JPEG

mohenjo daro bath:
http://www.pitt.edu/~asian/week-1/greatbath1.jpg

darius tomb and mesoamerica "ya":
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...anian-language (post 20)

[arkleogist]

The poor kid got stuck 390 times? Fortunately it was the pool of eternal life.

[johen]

I think this people really kept the philosophy of mayby ancient altai more than Mayan, enough to build step pyramid up and down leading to underworld & heaven.



http://mexico-rivieramaya.eu/index.php?page=kosmologie

"Graves go down five steps and ended with the steep and deep pit. Special digging platforms were constructed inside the graves; traces of such constructions were noted in the grave walls at Noyon Uul barrows 20, 31 and 22. A dromos leads to the upper portion of the grave. A hoist was used for dropping wooden elements of the burial structure and coffin with the dead body into the tomb. The burial construction resembles the Zhou, Qin and early Han tombs in China."

the tomb of lady Dai (mummy) from the Han Dynasty:
https://pages.uoregon.edu/inaasim/Fo...ynotes%206.htm

in the Han formation period, Q1a-M120 was detected in elite burials

Tombs of the kings of the Western Han dynasty (202 B.C.E.–9 C.E.) often contain burial items that are related to the material culture of the Eastern Eurasian Steppe. These artifacts are usually interpreted in a general sense, for instance as a sign for the fascination of the Han elite with the exotic. A closer analysis of relevant finds, however, shows different strategies of dealing with foreign influences. While the exchange with the empire's northern neighbors is evidenced through goods for which identical excavated parallels from the steppe exist, the royal tombs of the Han also contained items that resemble and reference steppe motifs and objects but were clearly produced locally and for local consumers. Especially the latter type of artifacts can thus not simply be interpreted as the passive byproduct of exchange relations. Instead, we have to acknowledge that design, production, and usage of these objects were based on conscious decisions. Based on the insight that objects always have a social function, this article argues that the Han elite not only appropriated steppe influences and motifs (?) but also strategically (re)produced and integrated them into their world in order to redefine, enhance, and strengthen their position within their social framework.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...rn_Han_Dynasty

Of the more famous artifacts from Mawangdui were its silk funeral banners; these T-shaped banners were draped on the coffin of Tomb 1. The banners depicted the Chinese abstraction of the cosmos and the afterlife at the time of the western Han dynasty. A silk banner of similar style and function were found in Tomb 3.
The T-shaped silk funeral banner in the tomb of the Marquise (Tomb 1) is called the "name banner" with the written name of the deceased replaced with a portrait. We know the name because the tomb's original inventory is still intact, and this is what it is called on the inventory. The Marquise was buried in four coffins; the silk banner drapes the innermost of the coffins.^[4]
On the T-shaped painted silk garment, the uppermost horizontal section of the T represents heaven. The bottom of the vertical section of the T represents the underworld. The middle (the top of the vertical) represents earth. In heaven we can see Chinese deities such as Nuwa and Chang'e, as well as Daoist symbols such as cranes (representing immortality). Between heaven and earth we can see heavenly messengers sent to bring Lady Dai to heaven. Underneath this are Lady Dai's family offering sacrifices to help her journey to heaven. Beneath them is the underworld - two giant sea serpents intertwined.

“chacana symbol-tree of life”

[johen]

Mayan and hindu pyramid similarity :

https://pparihar.com/2015/10/06/hind...culture-proof/

another mayan type pyramid in china

https://ancient-code.com/the-great-p...on-the-planet/



==> Where is their blue print?
Maybe here


http://www.altrimenti.net/2014/11/ok...o-agarthi.html

why mexican pyramids in India and China? b/c Aryan culture is ANE culture

Mandala = circle : Indo Aryan Rig veda is 10 circle books



In china:

"Just as suggested by evidence found at early Yangshao culture sites, Hongshan culture sites also provide the earliest evidence for feng shui. The presence of both round and square shapes at Hongshan culture ceremonial centers suggests an early presence of the gaitian cosmography ("round heaven, square earth")."


A feng shui compass

In Honshan near Manchu:

"Chinese archaeologists has discovered a pyramid-shaped building, dating back more than 5,000 years ago, in the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, in north China.
The "pyramid", located on a mountain ridge one kilometer north of Sijiazi Township in the Aohan Banner (county), is a three-storied stone building, with the bottom layer being more than 30 meters long and 15 meters wide.
The "pyramid" belongs to the Hongshan Culture period of 5,000 to 6,000 years ago, according to Guo Dashun, a famous Chinese archaeologist who works in Liaoning Archaeological Research Institute.
Seven tombs and ruins of an altar were found on the top of the "pyramid."

And pyramid tradition continued in Manchu :
Aerial shot of valley of tombs at Wandu. Note: part of the old city walls that follow the entire mountain ridge (in a complete – 7 km circle).
"Walking the old city walls of Wandu – the capital of the ancient Korean Kingdom of Goguryeo, overlooking the “Tombs of the Nobles”.

https://www.thecandytrail.com/wandu-...y-tombs-china/

[johen]

Originally Posted by johen

Mayan tree of life:

https://www.ancientamerica.org/?page_id=533

"Graves go down five steps and ended with the steep and deep pit. Special digging platforms were constructed inside the graves; traces of such constructions were noted in the grave walls at Noyon Uul barrows 20, 31 and 22. A dromos leads to the upper portion of the grave. A hoist was used for dropping wooden elements of the burial structure and coffin with the dead body into the tomb. The burial construction resembles the Zhou, Qin and early Han tombs in China."

the tomb of lady Dai (mummy) from the Han Dynasty:
https://pages.uoregon.edu/inaasim/Fo...ynotes%206.htm

Originally Posted by bicicleur
in the Han formation period, Q1a-M120 was detected in elite burials

Tombs of the kings of the Western Han dynasty (202 B.C.E.–9 C.E.) often contain burial items that are related to the material culture of the Eastern Eurasian Steppe. These artifacts are usually interpreted in a general sense, for instance as a sign for the fascination of the Han elite with the exotic. A closer analysis of relevant finds, however, shows different strategies of dealing with foreign influences. While the exchange with the empire's northern neighbors is evidenced through goods for which identical excavated parallels from the steppe exist, the royal tombs of the Han also contained items that resemble and reference steppe motifs and objects but were clearly produced locally and for local consumers. Especially the latter type of artifacts can thus not simply be interpreted as the passive byproduct of exchange relations. Instead, we have to acknowledge that design, production, and usage of these objects were based on conscious decisions. Based on the insight that objects always have a social function, this article argues that the Han elite not only appropriated steppe influences and motifs (?) but also strategically (re)produced and integrated them into their world in order to redefine, enhance, and strengthen their position within their social framework.https://www.researchgate.net/publica...rn_Han_Dynasty

Han dynasty jade burial suit ( jade is 玉, 王 is a King)



Mayan jade burial mask:

[johen]

Here is another step pyramid in west China, shimao:

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/9...-1200x1079.jpg

https://www.archaeology.org/images/N...ep-Pyramid.jpg


https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristin.../#c05461e44b9a
https://www.livescience.com/63406-ma...hed-china.html
https://static.cambridge.org/resourc...ub-status=live




Figure 4. Drawing of three single-edged knives: a) of the Elunio culture, 2000–1800 BC, Russian Altai, length around 220mm; b) from Shimao, 2000–1800 BC, length around 100mm:c) Erlitou, 1700–1600 BC, length around 255mm (drawing by John Rawson).

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...5F/core-reader

Elunio culture is a seima turbino culture, where 1Q was found so far.shimao and seima same linguistics root?

1. shimao stone carving:


https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-2...UVG/index.html


same concept in Mayan "earth" monster:
the king appears as the sun, shown in relation to a monster representing the earth.
https://mayaruins.com/copan/a1_1103.html

Shimao carving:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...amorphic_Power

Mayan :

https://thetravelhackinglife.com/copan-maya-ruins/2. shimao artifacts below:

1st ring pommel dagger like celtic dagger
2nd Elunio dagger
3rd seima turbino ring pommel dagger except pattern ( page 81 on https://docplayer.net/81981204-Ucla-...ertations.html)


https://www.youlinmagazine.com/artic...-past/MTgwNA==

[johen]

Mayan and hindu pyramid similarity :

https://pparihar.com/2015/10/06/hind...culture-proof/

another mayan type pyramid in china

https://ancient-code.com/the-great-p...on-the-planet/
Ancient records preserved in an old monastery near the Mongolian border describe the Xian pyramid.

The structure was said to measure 1,000 feet in height which made it the highest pyramid in the world (the Great Pyramid of Egypt is 450 feet in height).

According to the monastic documents the pyramid was already extremely old when the records were made.
In the valleys surrounding the Xian pyramid were dozens of other pyramids, some rising to an elevation almost as great.
Surviving traces of original pigments show that the Xian pyramid was painted with different colours on each on its four flanks.
The east side was bluish grey, with white facing the west, black on the north, and red on the south.

It should be noted that other ancient monuments such as the Maya, Aztecs, and many Indian tribes of North America associated the four cardinal directions with different colours.
In 1994, archaeologists discovered several pyramids near the Wei River, north of Xian. Hausdorf estimates there may be as many 90 to 100 pyramids in China, including the White Pyramid which is the highest of them all. All of them are mostly unheard of in the Western world.

It seems to be a simple math: okunevo Mayan at Altai who might need farmers with a great endurance:

Okunevo with a THIRD EYE:


mayan:


Okunevo to shijiahe culture china:

'A Seima-Turbino Bronze Spear Discovered in the Yangtze River Valley in China
and Its Important Academic Significance':

["To date, ten Seima-Turbino bronze spearheads have been discovered in China. Of particular
interest is the spear from Lojiabailing, found in the same layer with jade items belonging to the post-Shijiahe culture. According to published drawings, the shape of the bronze spear from Luojiabailing coincides with the shape of the bronze spearheads from the Shenna and Xiawanggang sites. Judging by the jade items of the post-Shijiahe culture found together with the spear, the dating of the bronze spears coincides with the time of the post-Shijiahe, approximately 2200–1800 BC. The significance of the joint discovery of the Seima-Turbino bronze spears and jade products of the post-Shijiahe culture lies in the fact that they contribute to a better understanding of the cultural ties between the Longshan cultural community in China and the cultures of the early Bronze Age of Southern Siberia in the late 3rd – early 2nd millennium BC. There are many similarities in the art of these
cultures, which may be the result of contacts between the cultures of the Longshan era in China and the cultures of the Early Bronze Age of Southern Siberia. The spread of the Seima-Turba bronzes to the east and south of the Altai was a prerequisite for these processes."]
https://archaeology.nsc.ru/wp-conten...22_sbornik.pdf

scholar tried to connect okunevo culture to two jade devil masks


shijiahe culture china to mesoamrica

- "A Chinese miniature jade mask. 2nd millennium BCE"


more: http://wenhui.whb.cn/u/cms/www/201803/141722546dak.jpg

- mesoamerica

[johen]

^
^

"Mayan-Chinese Culture Continuum" according to Harvard scholar:

chinese civilization and american civilizations are actually the descendants of the same ancestors, from different locations and times. kc chang called this entire cultural background "the mayan-chinese culture continuum.” the geographical scope of this continuum covers the entire old world and the new world. their time dates back much further than the origin of chinese civilization, or the mayan civilization, and at least as early as the upper paleolithic period. based on this point of view, the paleolithic ancestors, their culture, in particular the level of development of the arts, ideas and ideology, far exceed how we view them from limited archaeological data. as such, we often underestimate the level of their culture. 20,000-30,000 years ago when most of the indigenous groups passed through the bering strait from asia to the americas, they brought along a culture with unexpected richness. this extended to the new world and became known as "the mayan-chinese culture continuum. its core element comprised of "sorcery and shaman culture". when viewing the world, they divided it into different levels, and the shaman interchanged between the different levels. they engaged in this communication, some aides and tools: various law , which may include a gourd, alcohol, drugs, a variety of animals and a heaven-earth pole. 20,000 to 30,000 years ago, people journeyed across the bering strait to the new world. during this process, they were said to have brought over a variety of cultural background. from this rich basis of culture, similar societies were formed at different places and different times. this included the bronze age civilization that occurred two to three thousand years ago in china, the mayan civilization in mexico, as well as other similar civilizations.

Note: KC Chang, Qingtong Huichen