E-m123*

[Valerius]

maybe you need to ask them again .....
although it is possible they have prefernce for some samples over others .....
hope they will upload the saka dude that would be cool
about the udegram samples from pakistan it can still help very much for the E-PF1962 tree

I asked them 3 times so far, they give the same answer. Btw, is there an alternative to yfull where that ancient sample can be uploaded?

[kingjohn]

I asked them 3 times so far, they give the same answer. Btw, is there an alternative to yfull where that ancient sample can be uploaded?

i guess sometime you need to be close to the plate
my suggestion :
is that you ask pribislav from anthrogenica he is an expert ​
he also anlaysed many of our e1b1b1 ancient samples
and he sure know the answere to this question if there is alternative

[kingjohn]

I asked them 3 times so far, they give the same answer. Btw, is there an alternative to yfull where that ancient sample can be uploaded?

i read in anthrogenica
that you found 6 e-m123* samples in druze dna project

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults


i am coping ruderico which is very informative about there specific branch

They all belong to E-Y30965 and the downstream FGC62257 subclade which is the autochthonous Levantine branch. Interestingly the FGC62257 branch has a TMRCA of 850 years in yfull which is just marginally less than the time in which Ad-Darazi lived. I'm just guessing here, but maybe their common ancestor could have been either descended from him, or from one of his associates.


https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC62257/

[Valerius]

Yes, new results pop-up from time to time which is good. As seen on the tree on Yfull, the European branches departed from the Levant around 6500 years ago which would support the good-old (late) Neolithic theory that we discussed long ago. I believe the crossing point was Anatolia > Balkans. This line managed to reach as far as Portugal in about 1000 years. This line was never a major one, that is the reason why it is not showing up in ancient DNA so far.

[kingjohn]

Yes, new results pop-up from time to time which is good. As seen on the tree on Yfull, the European branches departed from the Levant around 6500 years ago which would support the good-old (late) Neolithic theory that we discussed long ago. I believe the crossing point was Anatolia > Balkans. This line managed to reach as far as Portugal in about 1000 years. This line was never a major one, that is the reason why it is not showing up in ancient DNA so far.

valerius, that is amazing ( such rare branch but found again and again in indo-iranians
remember the swat samples also )
so we have another scytian this time from south kyrgystan
altrevd from anthrogenica looked at the calls of ALN008
he was e-m123 (e-m34 negetive)
he belonged to e-y31991 just like the north east kazakhstan saka /scytian remain

https://i.imgur.com/iwDgzJl.png

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y31991/

source this new paper :

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/13/eabe4414

[Pax Augusta]

Yes, new results pop-up from time to time which is good. As seen on the tree on Yfull, the European branches departed from the Levant around 6500 years ago which would support the good-old (late) Neolithic theory that we discussed long ago. I believe the crossing point was Anatolia > Balkans. This line managed to reach as far as Portugal in about 1000 years. This line was never a major one, that is the reason why it is not showing up in ancient DNA so far.

Very plausible scenario.

[Valerius]

valerius, that is amazing ( such rare branch but found again and again in indo-iranians
remember the swat samples also )
so we have another scytian this time from south kyrgystan
altrevd from anthrogenica looked at the calls of ALN008
he was e-m123 (e-m34 negetive)
he belonged to e-y31991 just like the north east kazakhstan saka /scytian remain

https://i.imgur.com/iwDgzJl.png

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y31991/

source this new paper :

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/13/eabe4414

Thank you very much KingJohn! This second Scythian sample is really confirming that some of the clades of E-Y31991 were present among the Scythians. From what I see, they belong to an extinct sub-clade and they are not direct ancestors to the European
E-Y31991 clades. They most likely picked it up from the Thracians or from Armenia, as E-Y31991 is also present among Armenians. There was also E-V13 found in that study as well.

[kingjohn]

Thank you very much KingJohn! This second Scythian sample is really confirming that some of the clades of E-Y31991 were present among the Scythians. From what I see, they belong to an extinct sub-clade and they are not direct ancestors to the European
E-Y31991 clades. They most likely picked it up from the Thracians or from Armenia, as E-Y31991 is also present among Armenians. There was also E-V13 found in that study as well.

you posted it in e3b haplozone :

This is from an user from Anthrogenica:

"I rechecked all ancient Y31991 samples with FTDNA Block tree SNPs, and all of them indeed belong to the same clade (FT179548) that had split from the main Y31991 lineage quite early:

ALN008; ~300 AD; Alai / Nura I, II, Tuyuk II Burials, Kyrgyzstan; Late Saka; E-Y31991>FT179548>FT169238>FT167798

DA19; 801-749 BC; Karaterekh, Burial 1, Maiskij rajon, Kazakhstan; Central Saka_o; E-Y31991>FT179548>FT169238* (xFT167798)

I1799, I1985, I3262, I6197, I6899, I6900; ~1500-800 BC; Udegram, Swat Valley, Pakistan; SPGT; E-Y31991>FT179548>FT377116"


So this branch E-FT179548 is another kind of E-M123* that is not part of the E-Y31991 tree that we know from Yfull but forms a parallel branch on Ftdna:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ame=E-FT179548

So far we thought that pre-31991 means an unknown SNP between z830 and e-m123* but according to FTDNA we are dealing with another kind of E-M123* - there are 3 people listed on FTDNA belonging to that new branch, sadly none of them added any country info...

It seems that the Scythians picked up that linage directly from the Middle East or some of the adjacent areas. Or it expanded on its own from the Middle East to Central / South-Central Asia without Scythians only to be assimilated later in history. Yet again this info is vague and good as almost nothing but still interesting.


p.s
your explanation looks logical to me

[Valerius]

I am 90% inclined to believe the scenario where that type of E-M123* expanded on its own probably 10,000 years ago from the Middle East to Central Asia and was later assimilated by various Scythian groups. Interesting to see how long it did survived - 1st sample from the 7-8th century BC, second sample from the 3-4rd century A.D. Might have survived in some populations that are not studied well. But even more interesting is to see 2 different types of E-M123* - the European/MENA one (E-Y31991) and that ancient Central Asian one (E-FT179548).

[kingjohn]

I am 90% inclined to believe the scenario where that type of E-M123* expanded on its own probably 10,000 years ago from the Middle East to Central Asia and was later assimilated by various Scythian groups. Interesting to see how long it did survived - 1st sample from the 7-8th century BC, second sample from the 3-4rd century A.D. Might have survived in some populations that are not studied well. But even more interesting is to see 2 different types of E-M123* - the European/MENA one (E-Y31991) and that ancient Central Asian one (E-FT179548).

yes both branches are derived from e-y31991/e-ft20896 ( e-ft179548 not in yfull yet )

https://www.genetichomeland.com/welc...=Y&snp=FT20896
you belong to e-pf4428 which is derived from e-fgc62222
your branch made it to europe i think on late neolithic /chl period
and i hope one day it will be found in european anceient remain






E-FT20896