Corded Ware Culture admixture against Yamnayans

[MarkoZ]

New data of genetics and archeology tell us about the other.

It'd help if you actually specified what these new findings that support a North-Eastern European homeland are.

As for the elk, the Greek and Latin words seem to be loanwords from Germanic rather than carryovers from a northerly homeland. The cognates in Tocharian and Indic refer to antelopes. Which is the original meaning?

 

[Tomenable]

There are quite a few places that fit this description, the closest matches perhaps being the prominent mountain ranges in the arid-temperate zones. Hindu Kush, Zagros, Dinaric Alps or the Himalayas basically. It also sounds like exactly the kind of biome transhumant herders would live in.

Ural and Northern Caucasus as well.

 

[johen]

Already pritsipe clear that proto-proto-IE is a survived population of the end Upper Paleolithic - Mesolithic of north-east Europe, which gradually began to descend down to the south. They are also known as EHG. In such cultures (Corded-Ware, Dniepr-Don, Yamnaya) usually find the "mighty" northern cromanoid skeletons. All these cultures have one source. This is the north.

Problem is the russsian anthrology did not mention the other cultures except afanasievo, andronovo and yamna regarding cromagnon type paleo Europid. Interesting thing is they always mentioned afanasievo first, not yamna(pit-grave). If the paleo type people popped up at bronze age, my question is where they hid so long time in order to keep the paleo type. Some of american Indian still have kept UP type until now according to Coon and C Loring Brace. Moreover, I think this cromagnon type paleo people spread IndoEuropean Language to Europe, Iran, India and tarim basin, b/c the afanseivo R1b skull is so close to srubna R1-Z93(Aryian) and 2,000bc tarim skull.

In Soviet science to paleoevropeytsam decided to apply anthropological designation of " paleo race ." ^{[ 2 ]}
Paleo race (paleo type of proto-european type (race),the northern race severoevropeoidny type kromanidny type) is characterized by a massive face, brahikefaliey, large (acting)nose, massive physique, svetlopigmentirovannostyu(ie,hair, eyes, skin.). ^[3] The origin of the type associated with the Cro-Magnon, ^{[4] [5]} are typical representatives of thisrace were representatives Afanasiev archaeological culture (III - beginning of II thousand. BC. E.), Tagar culture (VIII- IIIcenturies. BC. E .), Andronovo culture ( 2300 to n . e -. 1000 to the n . e ), the pit culture ( 3600 - 2300 up to n . e). carcass cultures ( 1700 - 1200 cc . to n . Oe .), the Scythian population Pazyryk culture ( VII of - II of centuries . to n. e .) and others ^{[ 6 ]} . Differences types of races for the different cultures were in the size and proportions of the face spread which is negligible .

According to Antropologia, E.N. Chrisanfova, I.V. Perevozchikov, 2005 y, Paleoeuropoid type was widespread in steppe zone of Eurasia from Dnieper to Altaye-Sayan region in 2-3 millenium bc.

Description of cromagnon type paleo european(so called proto Europid)

Twenty-four skulls from Afanas'evo sites possess similar characters. In addition to such Europoid traits as a prominent nose and an orhtognathous, ralatively short and unflattened face, the Afanas'evo skulls are massive. The latter is expressed in a greater facial breadth, a greater slant of the forehead, and in highly developed supraorbital crests. This combination of characters is unknown among the modern European races but occurs in the Upper Paleolithic period.

The closest analogy to the Afans'evo skulls offered by the Cro-Magnon type of western Europe.

 

[Dov]

It'd help if you actually specified what these new findings that support a North-Eastern European homeland are.

Corded Ware and Yamnaya (which are attributed as the Indo-European) are similar in part autosomal, and certainly have a common source in the north.
Basal R1a found in the north as well as R1b (just more eastern).

As for the elk, the Greek and Latin words seem to be loanwords from Germanic rather than carryovers from a northerly homeland. The cognates in Tocharian and Indic refer to antelopes. Which is the original meaning?

We know that the eastern Corded Ware who are the ancestors of the Indians came from the north, forest zone (there live Elks). So initially they called elk, and then started calling the antelope.
The same goes for Tochars. They also went in forest area and contacted with the Finno-Ugric.

 

[Dov]

We cant just select words that suit our theory only.

I just chose a word that excludes other areas.

What theory you favor?

Well, even 3 years ago it was widely believed in the archaeological science that Yamnaya can be ancestral to Indo-Iranians. After, genetic study proved that this is not. East Yamnaya is a dead-end population.

Also, after this genetic research of Yamnaya culture Russian archaeologist Klein saw inconsistencies in it and criticized the Anthony, Mallory and Co work. He also sees the source of the Indo-Europeans in the north, somewhere near the Baltic Sea. He was also adhered to a long-standing theory that PIE was Funnelbeaker. But now this also seems to be not true. Therefore, a new theory has yet to be written.

 

[Dov]

Ural and Northern Caucasus as well.

There is no need to invent the mountain system in the PIE area. These Ivanov-Gamkrelidze reconstructions(?) as *Hek'or- *k[h]el *ont'-/*nt. *b[h]erg[h if they are correct, that probably words means elevation, hill, top, stone, rock, and not "huge mountains system as Cordilleras/Andes-Himalayas". At least there is no specific mountain vocabulary, as well as the mountain flora and fauna in the PIE.

 

[MarkoZ]

Corded Ware and Yamnaya (which are attributed as the Indo-European) are similar in part autosomal, and certainly have a common source in the north.
Basal R1a found in the north as well as R1b (just more eastern).


We know that the eastern Corded Ware who are the ancestors of the Indians came from the north, forest zone (there live Elks). So initially they called elk, and then started calling the antelope.
The same goes for Tochars. They also went in forest area and contacted with the Finno-Ugric.

I guess you've gotten a bit circular here. Your argument is essentially that the familiarity with elks points to a far northern origin for PIE, and since we know that PIE came from the far north, elks must have been known to the PIE speakers.

There's also an issue with Tocharian 'yäl' (antelope), which lacks the kʰ and looks to be derived from the bare root if G&I are to be believed. This makes it unlikely to be a simple corruption of the PIE word for elk.