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View Poll Results: Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

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  • Turan Lowland - Kazakh Uplands - Southern Urals ( Central Asia )

    2 7.69%
  • East European Plain - Northern Black Sea - Caspian Lowland ( East Europe )

    4 15.38%
  • Around the Alpide belt ( West Asia )

    15 57.69%
  • Around the Alpide belt ( Himalayas )

    5 19.23%
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Thread: Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

  1. #26
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    Issa clan in Somalia has over 80% T-M184 the most in the world and we aren't talking about test sample sizes of 2 people or a small hand full.
    Issa clan or do you mean the DIR clan which originates on the border of ethiopia and somali
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  2. #27
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    is the view of Gareth Henson, administrator of the Haplogroup T project at FTDNA: "I think both T and L originated in the Iraq/Iran region but whereas the branches of L all went in different directions I don't see a similar pattern for T. The main groups are T1a and T1b. Both seem to have spread out together, but T1a shows more variation."
    He said to me , less than a month ago

    the most recent common ancestor of T1 and T2 was a single individual and he might have lived in Azerbaijan, or Bhutan, or somewhere in between, or somewhere a bit further south or west, but I doubt if he or his sons and grandsons travelled very far from the region where they were born. As far as we can tell, after 10000 years only 3 of their descendant lines had survived (two from T1 and one from T2). So we will never know how many branches of T came into existence and then died out in those 10000 years, or how far they spread.

  3. #28
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    During the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age haplogroup T would have been an important (though probably not dominant) lineage among ancient peoples such as Sumerians, the Babylonians and the Assyrians.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml 2016 updated
    there has been found 2 x T1a ydna ancient samples 7000 years old

    Haplogroup T1a (PF5604) has been found in two out of two 7500–6800 ybp individuals from Karsdorf, Sachsen-Anhalt, Germany. Both T1a skeletal remains belong to the Linienbandkeramische Kultur. T1a from Karsdorf constitutes 22.2% of all ancient samples between 7500 and 6800 ybp in Germany. The remainder belong to other clades: 22.2% are H2 carriers from Derenburg, and the remaining 55.6% are G2a bearers from Halberstadt and Derenburg. These ancient specimens' mtDNA haplogroups have been found to be H1*/H1au1b and H46b. Their autosomal ancestral components also consist of around 70% Western European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG) and 30% Basal Eurasian.[11]

    The Karsdorf site is located in the valley of Unstrut, Burgenlandkreis, Saxony-Anhalt, Germany. The slope on which Karsdorf sits is characterized by alluvial loess. The place itself was settled intensively since the earliest phase of the Linear Pottery culture (LBK) in the region.


    If they are in Germany in this period of time , then where did they come from?

  4. #29
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    Maps of Europe’s ancient tribes and Y-DNA.jpg 700 AD

  5. #30
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    During the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age haplogroup T would have been an important (though probably not dominant) lineage among ancient peoples such as Sumerians, the Babylonians and the Assyrians.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml 2016 updated
    old info .........

    I also suggest you ignore any ftdna or 23andme or natgeno , ancestry etc etc, as they are using data of modern people and that alone tells us nothing of the history of that marker or any other marker.

  6. #31
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    Maps of Europe’s ancient tribes and Y-DNA.jpg 700 AD
    I do not understand what you are saying

  7. #32
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    Lightbulb maP european ancient tribes and y dna.jpg 7000 ad

    vv4jBZR.jpgMap Of Ancient European Tribes and Y-DNA 7000 BC

  8. #33
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    Attachment 8314Attachment 8315Attachment 8316Map Of Ancient European Tribes and Y-DNA 2000 BC - 1227 AD

  9. #34
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    vv4jBZR.jpgMap Of Ancient European Tribes and Y-DNA 7000 BC
    Thats is 8950 years ago

  10. #35
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    Attachment 8314Attachment 8315Attachment 8316Map Of Ancient European Tribes and Y-DNA 2000 BC - 1227 AD
    the maps do not work ............you need eupedia approval

  11. #36
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  12. #37
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    Haplogroup
    T, FTDNA BENNET GREENSPAN Today is Jewish

  13. #38
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    My Ancestry Results Puerto Rican ' Hebrew Israelite

  14. #39
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    Haplogroup
    T, FTDNA BENNET GREENSPAN Today is Jewish
    I do not see what this video is about

    Maybe you are in the religious theory of DNA, so here is a link
    '
    https://books.google.com.au/books?id...ogroup&f=false


    Madai, falls into the area where Gareth Henson and the T project people sate as a possible begininng of T after slitting from LT group
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...p_Version2.png

    ..............................
    but every T ydna has this marker , see below

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_LT

    .................................
    This marker as per GeneticAtlas in 2010 states its origins in the Sind valley of North India

    One should also have this marker which is prior to LT , see below

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K-M9

    .........................

    T haplogroup was once called K2

    now it is called K1 , because it is older

    so K1a = L haplogroup
    and
    K1b = T haplogroup

  15. #40
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    Y-DNA haplogroup K-M9 is an old lineage that arose approximately 47,000 years ago, probably in South Asia or West Asia not North.

    The basal paragroup K* is exceptionally rare, although it has been reported at low frequencies in various parts of Eurasia, Oceania and Africa.

  16. #41
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    Y-DNA haplogroup LT is an old lineage widely distributed at low concentrations. It was established approximately 30,000-40,000 years ago, probably in South Asia or West Asia not North of Alpide

    No confirmed cases of the basal paragroup LT* have been identified.

    Its descendants are found mainly in populations indigenous to Europe, West Asia, South Asia and Northeast Africa.

    L-M20 is found at its highest frequency in Pakistan, Western India, among the Balochs of Afghanistan.

    T-M184 is most common in the Horn of Africa, (especially Somaliland, Djibouti and Ethiopia), Arabia, Iran, some regions in Europe and in Eastern India.

  17. #42
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    You asked me to please read the only study you said is but have you?
    Mendez 2011
    phylogenetic resolution of the Y chromosome haplogroup tree has led to finer temporal and spatial resolution for studies of human migration. Haplogroup T, initially known as K2 and defined by mutation M70, is found at variable frequencies across West Asia, Africa, and Europe. While several SNPs were recently discovered that extended the length of the branch leading to haplogroup T, only two SNPs are known to mark internal branches of haplogroup T. This low level of phylogenetic resolution has hindered studies of the origin and dispersal of this interesting haplogroup, which is found in Near Eastern non-Jewish populations, Jewish populations from several communities, and in the patrilineage of President Thomas Jefferson. Here we map 10 new SNPs that, together with the previously known SNPs, mark 11 lineages and two large subclades (T1a and T1b) of haplogroup T. We also report a new SNP that links haplogroups T and L within the major framework of Y chromosome evolution. Estimates of the timing of the branching events within haplogroup T, along with a comprehensive geographic survey of the major T subclades, suggest that this haplogroup began to diversify in the Near East -25 kya. Our survey also points to a complex history of dispersal of this rare and informative haplogroup within the Near East and from the Near East to Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The presence of T1a2 chromosomes in Near Eastern Jewish and non-Jewish populations may reflect early exiles between the ancient lands of Israel and Babylon. The presence of different subclades of T chromosomes in Europe may be explained by both the spread of Neolithic farmers and the later dispersal of Jews from the Near East. Finally, the moderately high frequency (-18%) of T1b* chromosomes in the Lemba of southern Africa supports the hypothesis of a Near Eastern, but not necessarily a Jewish, origin for their paternal line.

  18. #43
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    You must read and learn
    Mendez 2011
    phylogenetic resolution of the Y chromosome haplogroup tree has led to finer temporal and spatial resolution for studies of human migration. Haplogroup T, initially known as K2 and defined by mutation M70, is found at variable frequencies across West Asia, Africa, and Europe. While several SNPs were recently discovered that extended the length of the branch leading to haplogroup T, only two SNPs are known to mark internal branches of haplogroup T. This low level of phylogenetic resolution has hindered studies of the origin and dispersal of this interesting haplogroup, which is found in Near Eastern non-Jewish populations, Jewish populations from several communities, and in the patrilineage of President Thomas Jefferson. Here we map 10 new SNPs that, together with the previously known SNPs, mark 11 lineages and two large subclades (T1a and T1b) of haplogroup T. We also report a new SNP that links haplogroups T and L within the major framework of Y chromosome evolution. Estimates of the timing of the branching events within haplogroup T, along with a comprehensive geographic survey of the major T subclades, suggest that this haplogroup began to diversify in the Near East -25 kya. Our survey also points to a complex history of dispersal of this rare and informative haplogroup within the Near East and from the Near East to Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The presence of T1a2 chromosomes in Near Eastern Jewish and non-Jewish populations may reflect early exiles between the ancient lands of Israel and Babylon. The presence of different subclades of T chromosomes in Europe may be explained by both the spread of Neolithic farmers and the later dispersal of Jews from the Near East. Finally, the moderately high frequency (-18%) of T1b* chromosomes in the Lemba of southern Africa supports the hypothesis of a Near Eastern, but not necessarily a Jewish, origin for their paternal line.

  19. #44
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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenaz
    Hebrew Bible. In the genealogies of the Hebrew Bible, Ashkenaz (Hebrew: אַשְׁכְּנַז 'Aškănaz) was a descendant of Noah. He was the first son of Gomer and brother of Riphath and Togarmah (Genesis 10:3, 1 Chronicles 1:6), with Gomer being the grandson of Noah through Japheth. J2 Haplogroup Ashkenazi Jews don't fit Scripture as does AT,BT,CT,DE,FT, KT,LT, T scattered throughout the 4corners in indigenous peoples Africa Asia Australia America and 1% in Europe, J can't say that.

  20. #45
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Look at I to understand J they possible are Esau and K is northern sons of Jacob by way of Abraham F, DE being the Southern sons of Jacob by Shemite origins. Look at the Andaman islands D and K L P, haplogroup T Lemba at 18% this people are not Japheth.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Look at I to understand J they possible are Esau and K is northern sons of Jacob by way of Abraham FT. The Andaman islands D and K L P haplogroup T found in the Lemba this people are not Japheth

  22. #47
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    We have moved far beyond looking for genetics answers in religious texts. Please read the scientific papers that have been posted upthread.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  23. #48
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenaz
    Hebrew Bible. In the genealogies of the Hebrew Bible, Ashkenaz (Hebrew: אַשְׁכְּנַז 'Aškănaz) was a descendant of Noah. He was the first son of Gomer and brother of Riphath and Togarmah (Genesis 10:3, 1 Chronicles 1:6), with Gomer being the grandson of Noah through Japheth. J2 Haplogroup Ashkenazi Jews don't fit Scripture as does AT,BT,CT,DE,FT, KT,LT, T scattered throughout the 4corners in indigenous peoples Africa Asia Australia America and 1% in Europe, J can't say that.
    I do not care what these religious people say.

    the link below is the current y Dna tree for every haplogroup

    T haplogroup comes from the K group

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    is the view of Gareth Henson, administrator of the Haplogroup T project at FTDNA: "I think both T and L originated in the Iraq/Iran region but whereas the branches of L all went in different directions I don't see a similar pattern for T. The main groups are T1a and T1b. Both seem to have spread out together, but T1a shows more variation."
    The Gareth's view by November was "Well, the most recent common ancestor of T1 and T2 was a single individual and he might have lived in Azerbaijan, or Bhutan, or somewhere in between, or somewhere a bit further south or west, but I doubt if he or his sons and grandsons travelled very far from the region where they were born." This is his most recent known view.

    He have the same information as all of us up to date: One T2 member from Germany, one T2 member from a Flemish colony, one T2 member from the Kura-Araks Basin and one T2 member from Bhutan. This is Two T2 members from the North European Plain, one from the north of the Alpide belt in west Asia and one from the Himalayas. The last word would be when all of them test with BigY or Y-Elite 2.0 and then we will know who of them is most basally splitted.

    The T ancestor could have lived anywhere between North European Plain and Himalayas.

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    Is there any place, where T1* and T2* can be found together?

    T is so scattered, that it could be, that it is Canaanite hg...
    Also almost all places where it is, can be explain by known wanderings of them.
    But there is to many but, from the other sides, so...

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