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View Poll Results: Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

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  • Turan Lowland - Kazakh Uplands - Southern Urals ( Central Asia )

    2 7.69%
  • East European Plain - Northern Black Sea - Caspian Lowland ( East Europe )

    4 15.38%
  • Around the Alpide belt ( West Asia )

    15 57.69%
  • Around the Alpide belt ( Himalayas )

    5 19.23%
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Thread: Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

  1. #51
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Is there any place, where T1* and T2* can be found together?

    T is so scattered, that it could be, that it is Canaanite hg...
    Also almost all places where it is, can be explain by known wanderings of them.
    But there is to many but, from the other sides, so...
    IMO

    LT-L298 (~48000ybp ) where, according to geneticAtlas in 2010 ( if they are correct ) are from Sind-Valley northern India .............I am unsure , but ?

    from ~44000ybp T-M184 was created in the upper alpide belt ( I agree with Alpenjager)

    T-M184 split into T2-PH110 branch as well as T-L206 branch

    Below are the SNP's for T2 as per isogg T

    T2 PH110, PH196, PH478, PH526, PH550, PH768, PH933, PH1092, PH1106, PH1172, PH1268, PH1294, PH1343, PH1378, PH1434, PH1457, PH1546, PH1579, PH1583, PH1633, PH1691, PH1841, PH1867, PH1883, PH2017, PH2156, PH2279, PH2292, PH2328, PH2855, PH2861, PH2900, PH2933, PH2990, PH3010, PH3131, PH3150, PH3341, PH3399, PH3422, PH3474, PH3561, PH3721, PH3842, PH3862, PH3868, PH3922, PH3943, PH3996, PH4121, PH4216, PH4431, PH4591, PH4676, PH4746, PH4802, PH4834, PH4842, PH4892, PH4935, PH5136, PH5171, PH5181, PH5212, PH5256, PH5433
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  2. #52
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    IMO

    LT-L298 (~48000ybp ) where, according to geneticAtlas in 2010 ( if they are correct ) are from Sind-Valley northern India .............I am unsure , but ?

    from ~44000ybp T-M184 was created in the upper alpide belt ( I agree with Alpenjager)

    T-M184 split into T2-PH110 branch as well as T-L206 branch

    Below are the SNP's for T2 as per isogg T

    T2 PH110, PH196, PH478, PH526, PH550, PH768, PH933, PH1092, PH1106, PH1172, PH1268, PH1294, PH1343, PH1378, PH1434, PH1457, PH1546, PH1579, PH1583, PH1633, PH1691, PH1841, PH1867, PH1883, PH2017, PH2156, PH2279, PH2292, PH2328, PH2855, PH2861, PH2900, PH2933, PH2990, PH3010, PH3131, PH3150, PH3341, PH3399, PH3422, PH3474, PH3561, PH3721, PH3842, PH3862, PH3868, PH3922, PH3943, PH3996, PH4121, PH4216, PH4431, PH4591, PH4676, PH4746, PH4802, PH4834, PH4842, PH4892, PH4935, PH5136, PH5171, PH5181, PH5212, PH5256, PH5433
    This map show pretty well the haplogroup L-M20 distribution:

    Haplogroup L-M20 map.jpg

    If someone take into account the distribution of both T-M184 and L-M20 basally splitted branches, T2 and L2, none never will though on a "South Asian" origin for LT but instead all points to the same possible area of origin as we can see for T-M184.

  3. #53
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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    T is West Asia or North Africa

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    T is West Asia or North Africa
    Your posts are being useless. I recomend you to do some research before spitting claims without any sense. Also, you should update your sources and keep away your religious tendences.

  5. #55
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GedalYah this is my wiki page . I have been studying Haplogroup T for over 2 years. I recently saw claims of the north of the Aplide belt (Asia)and alpine(Europe) on wiki but no sources have been made public. I have been looking everywhere for this Research claim of new information but nothing, so can you show me what research I have missed. please send link

  6. #56
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GedalYah this is my wiki page . I have been studying Haplogroup T for over 2 years. I recently saw claims of the north of the Aplide belt (Asia)and alpine(Europe) on wiki but no sources have been made public. I have been looking everywhere for this Research claim of new information but nothing, so can you show me what research I have missed. please send link
    You really need to check the ages ( year formed ) in the T tree in yfull to understand what you say makes no sense.

  7. #57
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    My guess gonna be Mesopotamia, for the last 10'000 years, but i'm not sure, T could also be like J or L ( ??? ) minor haplogroups of basal F,G,H in the Alpin Belt and then after the migration with the neolithic, become a primarly haplogroup.

  8. #58
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    My guess gonna be Mesopotamia, for the last 10'000 years, but i'm not sure, T could also be like J or L ( ??? ) minor haplogroups of basal F,G,H in the Alpin Belt and then after the migration with the neolithic, become a primarly haplogroup.
    It is confirmed as south caspian area , north of the zargos mountains...............no where near mesopotamia .......along with L
    J2 is caucasus

    And it is alpide belt and not alpine

    cheers

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    My guess gonna be Mesopotamia, for the last 10'000 years, but i'm not sure, T could also be like J or L ( ??? ) minor haplogroups of basal F,G,H in the Alpin Belt and then after the migration with the neolithic, become a primarly haplogroup.
    J is a completly different lineage but is found in the Paleolithic North Europe and Caucasus.
    L haplogroup most probably have their origins somewhere between Europe and Caspian sea.
    G and H are less closely related than J or I. Most probably G and H first meet T in the early Neolithic.

  10. #60
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Show any research that uses the word Alpide Belt or North of the Alpine Belt Europe and Himalaya? This is made up. Like I stated I have studied genetics for over two years

  11. #61
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    Show any research that uses the word Alpide Belt or North of the Alpine Belt Europe and Himalaya? This is made up. Like I stated I have studied genetics for over two years
    You go again and again but finally you only hear your own religious voice. So, I wonder why you keep asking compulsively.

    Then, go with another try:

    1. There is still NO published research on T-M184 (xL206).
    2. There is only one T-M184 (xL206) sample found in a published paper. And this individual is from Himalaya.
    3. Only one T1-L206 sample is used in a unique paper.
    4. There are only 4 known T-M184 (xL206) individuals up to date. 3 found in FTDNA (1 of them in YFULL) and the other one is found in the Hallast paper.
    5. 4 out of 4 are from North of the Alpide belt: North European Plain, Kura-Araks basin and Himalayas.
    6. "Alpine belt Europe" You have a mess.
    7. Two years, Congratulations.

  12. #62
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Since when is Bhutan north of the Himalayas, or Kura-Araxes Basin north of the Caucasus?

  13. #63
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Since when is Bhutan north of the Himalayas, or Kura-Araxes Basin north of the Caucasus?
    Bhutan is on the humalayan mountains

    Bhutan (/buːˈtɑːn/; འབྲུག་ཡུལ་ druk yul), officially the Kingdom of Bhutan (འབྲུག་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་ druk gyal khap),[10] is a landlocked country and the second largest Himalayan state in Asia. Located in the Eastern Himalayas,


    As for Kura-Araxes, it is north of the Zargos mountains...and the Zargos mountains are part of the Alpide belt

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...%C3%BCrtel.png

    Looks north of the Alpide belt to me

    from:
    Cyprus (Troodos Mountains), Taurus Mountains, Zagros Mountains, Makran Highland, Sulaiman Mountains, Karakoram, Himalayas, Patkai, Chin Hills, Arakan Mountains, Andaman and Nicobar Islands in South Asia.

  14. #64
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    Alpide shows up as a misspelling on any spell check lol see for yourself
    Last edited by Gedalyah; 07-01-17 at 02:51.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Kingdom of Bhutan looks on it but not north of it but what about Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Uttara Kannada 13% or H.O.A. and North Africa, Dir and ISSA? Sir these people are not Europeans.

    Zagros Mountains are 0°32'29.3%22N+56°36'41.9%22E parallel with Israel FYI

    31°29'59.5"N 50°26'35.3"E

  16. #66
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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Since when is Bhutan north of the Himalayas, or Kura-Araxes Basin north of the Caucasus?
    Alpide Belt.jpg I think that is pretty clear. According with the three positions, do you think is most in line with the North of the Alpide belt or instead with the south of the Alpide belt?

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    Kingdom of Bhutan looks on it but not north of it but what about Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Uttara Kannada 13% or H.O.A. and North Africa, Dir and ISSA? Sir these people are not Europeans.

    Zagros Mountains are 0°32'29.3%22N+56°36'41.9%22E parallel with Israel FYI

    31°29'59.5"N 50°26'35.3"E
    Are you understanding what we are talking about here? All haplogroup T members in Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Uttara Kannada and HOA are belonging to subclades of T1a1a-L208. They all are useless to predict T-M184 origin. Because of that we are using the most basal branch known up to date T2-PH110.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    Alpide Belt.jpg I think that is pretty clear. According with the three positions, do you think is most in line with the North of the Alpide belt or instead with the south of the Alpide belt?
    Why on earth do you insist on describing it in terms of the Alpide belt? Two out of three are *not* north of the Alpide belt, so that is a terrible description. Personally I would call it "Eurasian, very rare". Distribution based on such a small number of samples is mere illusion caused by sample bias.

  19. #69
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Why on earth do you insist on describing it in terms of the Alpide belt? Two out of three are *not* north of the Alpide belt, so that is a terrible description. Personally I would call it "Eurasian, very rare". Distribution based on such a small number of samples is mere illusion caused by sample bias.

    ?

    The map he presented show north of the alpide ...............Iran is north of the alpide, basically the zargos mountains and north of these mountains is the same as north of the alpide belt

    Basic principal is that all people populated Mesopotamia from north of the zargos mountains ....................even today's paper of SW-Asia ( arabian peninsula ) states that the ydna of the peninsula came via the Caucasus mountains ............there are ~8500 samples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Why on earth do you insist on describing it in terms of the Alpide belt? Two out of three are *not* north of the Alpide belt, so that is a terrible description. Personally I would call it "Eurasian, very rare". Distribution based on such a small number of samples is mere illusion caused by sample bias.
    All haplogroups have been described as better as possible using the available information. Even Spencer Wells with much less evidences claimed 10 years ago that T1a-M70 was of Phoenician origin (not just Levantine, Near Eastern or West Asian) Now proved to be absolutly wrong. Why on earth we shouldn't do it with T-M184?

    T-M184 is "Eurasian", yes. And is "very rare", yes. But we can't use the available information to try to predict as better as possible, why? Just because of you? I think is fairly safe crossing all the information available, not just although especially important T2-PH110 but also L-M20 and T1-L206 basal branches together with ancientDNA findings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    All haplogroups have been described as better as possible using the available information. Even Spencer Wells with much less evidences claimed 10 years ago that T-M70 was of Phoenician origin (not just Levantine, Near Eastern or West Asian) Now proved to be absolutly wrong. Why on earth we shouldn't do it with T-M184?
    Describing its distribution as "north of the Alpide belt" is not describing it as well as possible: it is describing it very badly.

    You can of course do whatever you want, but if you have very little information to go on, then you are likely to be as wrong as Spencer Wells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Two out of three are *not* north of the Alpide belt
    There are 4 samples but three geographical points. Please read the previous posts in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Describing its distribution as "north of the Alpide belt" is not describing it as well as possible: it is describing it very badly.

    You can of course do whatever you want, but if you have very little information to go on, then you are likely to be as wrong as Spencer Wells.
    Yes, very badly but I'm satisfied to be in the same line of opinon as Gareth Henson, administrator of FTDNA haplogroup T project, who points to some places in the north of the Alpide belt.

    Alpide Belt sub.jpg All T2-PH110 known samples: Most basal known branch of T-M184. All L2-L595 known samples: Most basal known branch of L-M20. All T1b known samples: Most basal known T1-L206 branch.

    By the way, curiously you have created your Eupedia account just for post here. A bit suspicious. Of course, you can do what you want. Welcome to the forum Erudite. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    By the way, curiously you have created your Eupedia account just for post here. A bit suspicious. Of course, you can do what you want. Welcome to the forum Erudite. :)
    Thanks. Actually I registered three months ago (after much lurking) and first posted on the Iberomaurusian aDNA thread. Honestly I am just posting now to avoid doing real work.

  24. #74
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    There are 4 samples but three geographical points. Please read the previous posts in this thread.



    Yes, very badly but I'm satisfied to be in the same line of opinon as Gareth Henson, administrator of FTDNA haplogroup T project, who points to some places in the north of the Alpide belt.

    Alpide Belt sub.jpg All T2-PH110 known samples: Most basal known branch of T-M184. All L2-L595 known samples: Most basal known branch of L-M20. All L1b known samples: Most basal known T1-L206 branch.

    By the way, curiously you have created your Eupedia account just for post here. A bit suspicious. Of course, you can do what you want. Welcome to the forum Erudite. :)
    the only way to show people is to plot the markers via a map the ages as they are listed in Yfull

    then you will see the pattern of age and maybe even migration of the T

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    the only way to show people is to plot the markers via a map the ages as they are listed in Yfull

    then you will see the pattern of age and maybe even migration of the T
    The most effective way to predict T-M184 origin is crossing T2 sample distribution vs L2 and T1b samples. Also we could use samples belonging to basal branches of T1a1, T1a2 and T1a3 combined.

    Alpide Belt subsub.jpg Adding the most basal T1a-M70 samples of L446, PH141, L162, Y11675, Y8614.

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