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View Poll Results: Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

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  • Turan Lowland - Kazakh Uplands - Southern Urals ( Central Asia )

    2 8.00%
  • East European Plain - Northern Black Sea - Caspian Lowland ( East Europe )

    4 16.00%
  • Around the Alpide belt ( West Asia )

    14 56.00%
  • Around the Alpide belt ( Himalayas )

    5 20.00%
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Thread: Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

  1. #1
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Question Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

    Allowed multiple choice (This option doesn't seems to work). Thanks for your participation.

  2. #2
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Enigma to me. Where is the highest diversity of T?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Enigma to me. Where is the highest diversity of T?
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-M184_tree.png

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    Allowed multiple choice (This option doesn't seems to work). Thanks for your participation.
    I can agree with all 4 choices

    but the T Ftdna project state:

    the most recent common ancestor of T1 and T2 was a single individual and he might have lived in Azerbaijan, or Bhutan, or somewhere in between, or somewhere a bit further south or west, but I doubt if he or his sons and grandsons travelled very far from the region where they were born. As far as we can tell, after 10000 years only 3 of their descendant lines had survived (two from T1 and one from T2). So we will never know how many branches of T came into existence and then died out in those 10000 years, or how far they spread.

    IMO, it is where bactria is on the link below

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactria

    so, it would be the areas Bactrian, Tajik and Kirghiz is today
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Maybe it showed up in Near East with Caucasian or S-Indian admixture?

  6. #6
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV4a

    Ethnic group
    European-American, mostly Italian & Sicilian
    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Am I understanding correctly that T probably originated somewhere in Central Asia and then migrated west (the way the Proto-Indoeuropeans are said to have spread out), sort of settling in the Near East area? I think the highest concentration is in the Northeast Africa area. That may be too simplistic. Sicily looks like it has a good representation. I myself am T1a1a, Sicilian on my father's side.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorbjorn View Post
    Am I understanding correctly that T probably originated somewhere in Central Asia and then migrated west (the way the Proto-Indoeuropeans are said to have spread out), sort of settling in the Near East area? I think the highest concentration is in the Northeast Africa area. That may be too simplistic. Sicily looks like it has a good representation. I myself am T1a1a, Sicilian on my father's side.
    The Armenian DNA ftdna project has this ................although a bit old now


    Haplogroup T, formerly know as K2, has two branches, T1a & T1b, and is found at low frequencies throughout Europe and in parts of the Middle East, North Africa, and West Africa as can be seen in this MAP. Its origins and spread are still mysterious but we are slowly getting more clarity as can be seen in this new large and relatively slow-to-load MAP. The worldwide distribution of haplogroup T is spotty with some small areas of greater-than-average concentrations. T1a has a more southerly bias from the Near East to Europe and North Africa. T1b has a more northernly bias from the Near East through the Russian plains to Northern Europe.

    This is the view of Gareth Henson, administrator of the Haplogroup T project at FTDNA: "I think both T and L originated in the Iraq/Iran region but whereas the branches of L all went in different directions I don't see a similar pattern for T. The main groups are T1a and T1b. Both seem to have spread out together, but T1a shows more variation."

    So you would be from the T1a group and myself from the T1b group...............the map below ( also from the site ) while accurate is again oldish

    http://www.arslanmb.org/ArmenianDNAP...mapupdated.png

  8. #8
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV4a

    Ethnic group
    European-American, mostly Italian & Sicilian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    The Armenian DNA ftdna project has this ................although a bit old now


    [snip]

    So you would be from the T1a group and myself from the T1b group...............the map below ( also from the site ) while accurate is again oldish

    http://www.arslanmb.org/ArmenianDNAP...mapupdated.png
    You've come through again, thanks.

    This may be the stuff of a historical fiction novel from my overactive imagination: if T did originate in Central Asia, maybe several men from one family went their separate ways, going north and south, developing new subclades as time passed.

    I know, I know... fiction.

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    West Asia or Near East not north of the Alpine Belt. Spencer Wells, the geneticist that heads the Genographic Project in search of the scientific "Adam"In the film, Spencer Wells indicated that Thomas Jefferson's Y-Chromosome was "Phoenician", Read more: The National Geographic study "Who were the Phoenicians," revealed that Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States belonged to Y-chromosome Haplogroup K2. The quote from Wells that follows is the scientific explanation of what was discovered in studying Jefferson's DNA.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    West Asia or Near East not north of the Alpine Belt. Spencer Wells, the geneticist that heads the Genographic Project in search of the scientific "Adam"In the film, Spencer Wells indicated that Thomas Jefferson's Y-Chromosome was "Phoenician", Read more: The National Geographic study "Who were the Phoenicians," revealed that Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States belonged to Y-chromosome Haplogroup K2. The quote from Wells that follows is the scientific explanation of what was discovered in studying Jefferson's DNA.
    This information is outdated. You need to do a little bit of research. The Spencer's Phoenician claim is now proved to be wrong, this claim was pure speculation. K2-M70 is equivalent to T1a but not to T-M184.

    You need to update your sources.

    Please read to Mendez et al 2011 "The affiliation of the Jefferson haplotype to T1a and the absence of closely related haplotypes (zero to two step mutations away) in the network supports the hypothesis that this haplotype belongs to an ancient rare European Y-chromosome lineage rather than to lineages that recently migrated to Europe from the Near East."

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    This branch of T has its roots in North Africa and has travelled into Spain and up the Atlantic coast to Britain and Ireland. President Thomas Jefferson's paternal line probably belongs to this group. Feel free to contact Gareth Henson
    Administrator, Y-DNA Haplogroup T Project.

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    Exciting news for members of the T-M184 Haplogroup!

    With assistance from Gareth Henson, Family Tree DNA is pleased to announce the introduction of our new T-M184 SNP Pack with a comprehensive list of the essential SNPs for this branch of the T-M184 Haplogroup. The purpose of this test is to identify your terminal SNP on the Y-DNA Tree of mankind.
    ​During the past few years, the number of SNPs on our tree has increased dramatically. While we are confident you are in Haplogroup T-M184 or a downstream subgroup, you now have the opportunity to expand the depth of your Haplogroup much further with this exclusive test. This test can help you refine your subclade. If you are not sure whether or not this is the right test for you, we recommend contacting the T Haplogroup Project Administrators.

    Click the button below to sign in to your kit. Navigate to advanced orders by clicking the Upgrade button at the top of your myFTDNA account page, and be one of the first customers to get the T-M184 SNP Pack at our introductory beta price of $99! Once this beta run is filled, the price will change to $119.

    Note to Big Y users: This message is purely informational and you should not purchase this SNP pack unless it includes markers not included in your Big Y test. Please consult your Haplogroup Administrator to see if this SNP pack is right for you.

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    Mendez 2011
    phylogenetic resolution of the Y chromosome haplogroup tree has led to finer temporal and spatial resolution for studies of human migration. Haplogroup T, initially known as K2 and defined by mutation M70, is found at variable frequencies across West Asia, Africa, and Europe. While several SNPs were recently discovered that extended the length of the branch leading to haplogroup T, only two SNPs are known to mark internal branches of haplogroup T. This low level of phylogenetic resolution has hindered studies of the origin and dispersal of this interesting haplogroup, which is found in Near Eastern non-Jewish populations, Jewish populations from several communities, and in the patrilineage of President Thomas Jefferson. Here we map 10 new SNPs that, together with the previously known SNPs, mark 11 lineages and two large subclades (T1a and T1b) of haplogroup T. We also report a new SNP that links haplogroups T and L within the major framework of Y chromosome evolution. Estimates of the timing of the branching events within haplogroup T, along with a comprehensive geographic survey of the major T subclades, suggest that this haplogroup began to diversify in the Near East -25 kya. Our survey also points to a complex history of dispersal of this rare and informative haplogroup within the Near East and from the Near East to Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The presence of T1a2 chromosomes in Near Eastern Jewish and non-Jewish populations may reflect early exiles between the ancient lands of Israel and Babylon. The presence of different subclades of T chromosomes in Europe may be explained by both the spread of Neolithic farmers and the later dispersal of Jews from the Near East. Finally, the moderately high frequency (-18%) of T1b* chromosomes in the Lemba of southern Africa supports the hypothesis of a Near Eastern, but not necessarily a Jewish, origin for their paternal line.

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    Issa clan in Somalia has over 80% T-M184 the most in the world and we aren't talking about test sample sizes of 2 people or a small hand full.

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    After 10 post I can send all the links and photos to West Asia or North Africa scattered throughout the several continents Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Europe, and Australia found at level amongst all Indigenous Aboriginal of not only Europe, but it's ancient everywhere not only Europe it Himalaya.

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    is the view of Gareth Henson, administrator of the Haplogroup T project at FTDNA: "I think both T and L originated in the Iraq/Iran region but whereas the branches of L all went in different directions I don't see a similar pattern for T. The main groups are T1a and T1b. Both seem to have spread out together, but T1a shows more variation."

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    The worldwide distribution of haplogroup T is spotty with some small areas of greater-than-average concentrations. T1a has a more southerly bias from the Near East to Europe and North Africa. T1b has a more northernly bias from the Near East through the Russian plains to Northern Europe.

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    11) I will start with this can you explain
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

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  21. #21
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    T - The Y-DNA Haplogroup T (former K2) Project- Background
    Administrators
    Gareth Henson [email protected] , Group Administrator
    [email protected] , Group Co-Administrator
    [email protected] , Group Co-Administrator
    Hovann Simonian [email protected] , Group Co-Administrator
    Peter Hrechdakian [email protected] , Group Co-Administrator
    Background
    ** IMPORTANT MESSAGE APRIL 2014. FOLLOWING THE RELEASE OF THE NEW FTDNA/GENOGRAPHIC HAPLOGROUP TREE THERE ARE A LARGE NUMBER OF NEW SNPS AVAILABLE FOR ORDERING INDIVIDUALLY. FOR GUIDANCE ON WHICH SNP(S) TO ORDER PLEASE FIND YOUR KIT NUMBER ON THE Y-DNA RESULTS PAGE AND LOOK AT THE DESCRIPTION FOR YOUR GROUP. IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF WHICH SNP TO ORDER PLEASE CONTACT THE GROUP ADMINISTRATORS. **


    This project welcomes anyone who has been predicted or SNP-tested as Y-Haplogroup T.
    Haplogroup T (known as Haplogroup K2 until May 2008) is defined by SNP M184 and is found at low frequencies in the Middle East, Europe and North Africa. Most lines in T belong to subgroup T1a defined by SNP M70 which until March 2011 was considered equivalent to M184.
    T1a in turn splits into T1a1 (T-L162), T1a2 (T-L131) and T1a3 (T-L1255).
    T1a1 clusters along an east-west axis from Iran to Spain. T1a2 is found both in northern Europe and southern Africa but is rarer in the eastern and western edges of T's distribution zone. To date, T1a3 has only been found in Kuwait.

    Recent developments including the Geno 2.0 chip have identified the following major subgroups of T1a:

    T-L208 (T1a1a* on the current ISOGG tree http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpT.html)
    T-Z709 (T1a1a1*)
    T-P77 (T1a1a1a)
    T-P322 (T1a2a)
    T-L446 (T1a2b)
    Most lineages in T will belong to one of these 5 branches. The first two are strictly speaking paragroups and may split into several branches when more data is available.

    Thomas Jefferson is believed to have belonged to haplogroup T, based on tests carried out on individuals sharing his paternal line.
    For more information on T and the Jefferson family link see:
    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/c...08057/ABSTRACT
    and
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6332545

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    During the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age haplogroup T would have been an important (though probably not dominant) lineage among ancient peoples such as Sumerians, the Babylonians and the Assyrians.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml 2016 updated

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  24. #24
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    West Asia or Near East not north of the Alpine Belt. Spencer Wells, the geneticist that heads the Genographic Project in search of the scientific "Adam"In the film, Spencer Wells indicated that Thomas Jefferson's Y-Chromosome was "Phoenician", Read more: The National Geographic study "Who were the Phoenicians," revealed that Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States belonged to Y-chromosome Haplogroup K2. The quote from Wells that follows is the scientific explanation of what was discovered in studying Jefferson's DNA.
    you have mis read it.................it is not alpine belt

    it is alpide belt

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpide_belt

  25. #25
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gedalyah View Post
    This branch of T has its roots in North Africa and has travelled into Spain and up the Atlantic coast to Britain and Ireland. President Thomas Jefferson's paternal line probably belongs to this group. Feel free to contact Gareth Henson
    Administrator, Y-DNA Haplogroup T Project.
    Thomas Jefferson line arrived in egypt ~9000BC form the northern Levant ...............then went to Spain and then Wales

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