Minoan Civilization survived into the Iron Age

[A. Papadimitriou]

not exactly
until today we know that Dorians manage to invade west Crete, east was eteo-cretan land, means Minoan
about Mycenenan connection to Crete? it is very-very big,

Your statements aren't true.

“But one tongue with others is mixed,
”the poet says;“there dwell Achaeans, there Eteo-Cretans¹ proud of heart, there Cydonians and Dorians, too, of waving plumes, and goodly Pelasgians.
”²³ Of these peoples, according to Staphylus,⁴ the Dorians occupy the part towards the east, the Cydonians the western part, the Eteo-Cretans the southern; and to these last belongs the town Prasus, where is the temple of the Dictaean Zeus; whereas the other peoples, since they were more powerful, dwelt in the plains. Now it is reasonable to suppose that the Eteo-Cretans and the Cydonians were autochthonous, and that the others were foreigners, who, according to Andron,⁵ came from Thessaly, from the country which in earlier times was called Doris, but is now called Hestiaeotis; it was from this country that the Dorians who lived in the neighborhood of Parnassus set out, as he says, and founded Erineüs, Boeüm, and Cytinium, and hence by Homer⁶ are called "trichaïces."⁷ However, writers do not accept the account of Andron at all, since he represents the Tetrapolis Doris as being a Tripolis,⁸ and the metropolis of the Dorians as a mere colony of Thessalians; and they derive the meaning of "trichaïces" either from the "trilophia,"⁹ or from the fact that the crests were "trichini."¹⁰

The Cydonians are usually treated as non-Greek, most often Anatolian. People would assume the opposite to have been true.

Source with some comments: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0198:book=10:chapter=4:section=6

 

[Angela]

I am not going to debate a subject about which there is universal agreement because one poster doesn't seem to understand it. In some ways, all of western thought is a coda to Plato. What on earth do you people think the Scholastics, Thomas Aquinas, and on and on were thinking about and writing about in their monasteries and first universities? Likewise, the achievements of Greek art, architecture, literature, and theater are essential to the development of western culture.

It is beyond bizarre that I have to explain this to a supposed "Greek" of all people.

For those who didn't take much history on a university level, there are online courses, video courses, and great textbooks.

Some examples:

http://www.skilledup.com/courses/western-civilization-ancient-and-medieval-europe.1132730

http://people.duke.edu/~rgp6/major-syllabus-3.html

 

[Yetos]

The things I said about 'Minoans' are in essence correct, although my tone may not have been proper. There are some concepts based on speculations and educated guesses that sometimes are treated as facts because of some influential people. The 'Greek Dark Ages' or the 'Dorian Invasion' are some of them and this type of research is helpful.

Saying that 'Minoans' were 'the birthplace for all western civilization' is a weird statement, but for me that's not true for the Classical Greeks either although many people would and have supported that.

The role of universities created by Catholic Church is underestimated, for example. There was some involvement of ex-'Byzantine' scholars in Renaissance. But the fact that some people in Western Europe rediscovered at some point the ancient Greeks and the Romans isn't enough for me to consider Ancient Greece as 'the cradle of Western civilization'. They read the ancient texts, Roman laws influenced their ideas but internal developments, especially economic were more important.

I can't fully express what I want because I never managed to master English but what annoys me is when they selectively take some elements of ancient Greek culture, they fit them to the modern understanding (or their understanding) of what 'Western culture' is and they juxtapose the 'ancient Greeks' they have created to other cultures.

Greeks

Hellenes or Greeks is a unification movement that starts after Hesiodos, and after sea peaoples, and after Dorian southstream roam from Thessaly,
all before like Mycenenans Cycladetic pelasgian Mycenean Minyan Mirmydones etc are consider forfathers of this unification,

it is not coincidence that at underworld kingdom, the 3 big judges are not Greeks,

 

[berun]

not exactly
until today we know that Dorians manage to invade west Crete, east was eteo-cretan land, means Minoan
about Mycenenan connection to Crete? it is very-very big,
But can you tell me when Mycenenans invaded Crete?

I know about Eteo-cretans but to label them as Minoans is like labeling actual Nahuatl tribes as Aztec: they have not more king, neither empire, neither build temples, neither keep their own scripture; the same for Eteo-cretans (no kings, no empire, no palaces, no linear A).

For the Mycenean question the oracle mode is from 2:00 AM till 4:00 AM

 

[Yetos]

I know about Eteo-cretans but to label them as Minoans is like labeling actual Nahuatl tribes as Aztec: they have not more king, neither empire, neither build temples, neither keep their own scripture; the same for Eteo-cretans (no kings, no empire, no palaces, no linear A).

For the Mycenean question the oracle mode is from 2:00 AM till 4:00 AM

the question about eteo-cretans if they were or if not the same with Minoans,
has many debates,
the claim of semitic language is tottaly out of question, since not even ugaritic look like the hieroglyphs, neither are necropolis texts,
all the rest are open, and that is why i express interest in U8b1b,
anyway we know that wrote in their language till 6th century BC,

about Κυδων, well it was known even to Makedonians means bell and was their national fruit in antique, and also in Aeolic minor Asia today Ayvalik
yet the myth describe him either as son of Minoas, either from Tegea epigonos of Pelasgos,

 

[Angela]

This is a very nice summary of the history of ancient Crete which I recently happened to find. It addresses some of the issues discussed above.

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/10854/knossos.html#fieldnotes