Was Columbus of royal Polish descent?

bicicleur said:
sooner or later, what happened to the native Americans would happen, with or without Columbus
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As it happened in Australia with the Aborigines, and also, as it happens, in Africa when the Bantu speakers came in contact with the Pygmies, and in East Asia, and on and on. Nor was the New World a peaceful paradise full of flower children.

To be clear, I don't support brutality by anyone, and what has happened to these societies world-wide is a tragedy, but history can't be reduced to evil white men versus the rest of the world. It's dishonest and it's divisive and destructive. It is also, as you can see, how history is being taught in American schools.
 
davef said:
Christopher Columbus was a ruthless pirate who abused native Americans. We should boycott his holiday and I support the native Americans' efforts to tarnish his memory.
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Then, you're abusing yourself the native Americans, because you live illegally in their homeland. We should all boycott all the people from the USA, including you.
 
Yetos said:
Come on Russo It is very common in Greece especcialy at Megle Aromani populationsDemi Russos
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Come on, not only Colombo and all the Russos, everything in Italy is of Greek origin, even the Alps, the dogs, the horses, the trees and the rivers in Italy are of Greek origin. A populace of 10 million Greeks have generated 60 milion Italians in Italy and 140 milion Italians around the world. :LOL:
 
Angela said:
As it happened in Australia with the Aborigines, and also, as it happens, in Africa when the Bantu speakers came in contact with the Pygmies, and in East Asia, and on and on. Nor was the New World a peaceful paradise full of flower children.

To be clear, I don't support brutality by anyone, and what has happened to these societies world-wide is a tragedy, but history can't be reduced to evil white men versus the rest of the world. It's dishonest and it's divisive and destructive. It is also, as you can see, how history is being taught in American schools.
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You are right that we need to keep in mind historical societal norms to judge historic figures. However, we should be open about everything our heroes did in real life, without romanticizing everything about them. I think they would look more imperfect, more real, more human, more like us. So we know that though not perfect, this should stand in our ways to achieve something great in life. When we closely look at Indian "saint" Gandhi we will learn that he was a bit of a racist, at least on some occasions. Jesus was a pacifist, except his "communist, anti commerce" streak in the Temple, and he accepted slavery on few occasions, never spoke against it. Einstein wasn't a genius husband and a good father. Etc, etc.

I don't like superheroes. I like normal humans doing heroic things, standing above societal norms, dreaming big, improving the world.
 
LeBrok said:
You are right that we need to keep in mind historical societal norms to judge historic figures. However, we should be open about everything our heroes did in real life, without romanticizing everything about them. I think they would look more imperfect, more real, more human, more like us. So we know that though not perfect, this should stand in our ways to achieve something great in life. When we closely look at Indian "saint" Gandhi we will learn that he was a bit of a racist, at least on some occasions. Jesus was a pacifist, except his "communist, anti commerce" streak in the Temple, and he accepted slavery on few occasions, never spoke against it. Einstein wasn't a genius husband and a good father. Etc, etc.

I don't like superheroes. I like normal humans doing heroic things, standing above societal norms, dreaming big, improving the world.
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I totally agree, LeBrok. Given my temperament and my professional experiences, no one has to convince me that all human beings are flawed. Also, depending on the "type" of flaws, I also like my "heroes" better that way. One of my favorite people, and definitely my favorite American president, is Abraham Lincoln; I own more than a dozen biographies of him and I'm sure I'll buy more. Yet, he did things I find problematical, he suffered from severe depression at times, and on and on. It all just makes him more human, and more "relatable".

There's also a difference between recognizing someone's achievements and thinking of him or her as a "hero". I recognize Columbus' achievement; he's in no sense a "hero" for me. That's of course my own subjective judgment.

For the board:

Whenever the topic of the encounter between Europeans and Native Americans comes up, I immediately think of these two films. They're both excellent.

Black Robe is set in Canada. The whole film is on youtube.
This is the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS6bmm921G8

The Mission is set in South America. For anyone who doubts that what was done to Native Americans was horrendous, just watch this movie. This can also be watched in its entirety on youtube, but this is the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU14R9hbUFc
 
Yetos said:
Chios island,

under Genouates (Genovese) control from 1346 to 1566

sorry it is true,

L'8 giugno 1363, l'imperatore bizantino Giovanni V Paleologo, conferisce i titoli di Re, Despota e Principe di Chio, ai seguenti nobili patrizi genovesi: Nicolò de Caneto de Lavagna, Giovanni Campi, Francesco Arangio, Nicolò di San Teodoro, Gabriele Adorno (doge di Genova dal 1363 al 1370), Paolo Banca, Tommaso Longo, Andriolo Campi, Raffaello de Forneto, Luchino Negro, Pietro Oliverio e Francesco Garibaldi e Pietro di San Teodoro. Con il conferimento di questi titoli, questi maonesi, avevano il dominio su: Chio, Samo, Enussa, Santa Panagia e Focea.
Il dominio della Repubblica di Genova si concluse nel 1566, dopo un lungo e sanguinoso assedio da parte dell'Impero Ottomano. In quell'anno nell'isola di Chio vi erano 12000 Greci ortodossi ed oltre 2600 Genovesi cattolici (ossia un quinto del totale della popolazione era "latino")[2]: vi era parlato un dialetto coloniale genovese (il Chiotico).

Besides Colompus at his epistoles writes: I am not the first captain of my family, from Colon (le Jeune) it is my name

and both his son Ferdinard and Bartholomeo Las Casas (a historian monk the times of Colompus) say about his connection with Palaiologos family (Γεωργιος Παλαιολογος Δισυπατος, the exiled prince who become pirate as Colon le Jeune)

historian Taviani also mentions Chios island,

besides if he was born at 1451 and was a weaver till his 23 (1474!!!) the story is wrong, atopon. (forty years in prison he writes at 1500).

he knew excellent Greek Latin and Spanish at 14!!!!!! and secrets of maths and astronomy that even admirals do not know at 23 !!!!!! with out entering sea !!!!!

his signature
%CE%95%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C%CE%BD%CE%B12.jpg


Not only
how come he married a Portoguese nobility if he was just a weaver's son? his nobility was given by Italians at 20 may 1493
and how come his brother Bartholomeos until 1492 lived as famous cartographer (needs very good maths) at Henry 7th court and at Louis Versailles Paris?

so what Colompus say about his origin
as also that he was at Chios at 1463 with Ship ROXANA and with Jiovani Di Negro and Nicola Spinola and not at 1474
and after he become Colompus of terra ruba (valley south of Pyrgi Chios)

the only corect that fits with what he himshelf, his son and other historians wrote
is that Colompus was born or raised at Genova but at 1436-9, possibly to hide him, and his family exist at Chios as the villa has the mark and name from 1440,
visited Chios at 1462-3, and was noble and educated and pirate comrade with Colon le Jeune (Γεωργιος Παλαιολογος)

sory, it not a hit under the belt,
it is the missing link of his story, that we did not ever heared

if you think that all the above are incorrect then sorry they are true
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Maybe you can find more information on the catalan company in Chios and Asia minor.................story is colombus family line was part of this catalan company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_campaign_in_Asia_Minor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Company

They where replaced in the area by the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navarrese_Company

His family then went back to Barcelona, but by this time , the kingdom of Aragon gave their lands and titles to the duchy of Barcelona. moving forward, scholars state that columbus could not even speak or understand Genoese


After the berbers where cleared out of Spain..........the Castilian cortes of Isabella had many major issues with the catalan cortes of ferdinand , a division appeared ............ It got worse after Isabella died and Ferdinand tried to marry a Navarrese princess. Due to these bad feelings, the Catalans where the ones to hide Colombus/Colon identity by moving his family to Genoa ( early on ) and so prevent the Castilians to grap any glory that a "spaniard" discovered the new world.
 
Pax Augusta said:
Come on, not only Colombo and all the Russos, everything in Italy is of Greek origin, even the Alps, the dogs, the horses, the trees and the rivers in Italy are of Greek origin. A populace of 10 million Greeks have generated 60 milion Italians in Italy and 140 milion Italians around the world. :LOL:
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oh boy, give better numbers.
 
Angela said:
Gentlemen, can we please try not to get into another discussion based on unreliable sources and unreliable facts? Also, check your claims for accuracy before you make them.

This is the distribution of the surname "Colombo" in Italy. For people who are apparently not very conversant with Italian geography, the area of highest concentration is not Torino, and not even the region of Piemonte.

http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turismo-viaggi-e-tradizioni-italia?cognome=Colombo&x=27&y=13
turismo-viaggi-e-tradizioni-italia


Ed. The area with the intense band of circles reaching into the sea is GENOVA.

The ten most common surnames in Italy:
According to the site Gens [1], the following are the most common surnames in Italy:

  • Rossi.
  • Russo.
  • Ferrari.
  • Esposito.
  • Bianchi.
  • Romano.
  • Colombo.
  • Ricci.

Is there by any chance a full moon tonight?

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Angela come on,

only in my area Central Makedonia are more than 4500 males with name Russos.
many of them are Armani mainly Mengle or towards Mengle, means Romans Latin-speakers with origin from ex-Yugoslavia Rumania and Hungary N Greece
others are Greeks from Russia, Crimea, others are just Russians who migrate,

his name is Russo-poulos,
EBA43D36DA222393C02DBCC80618F3D6.jpg


can you tell me what he is?
Roman, Armani Megle, Armani Kutsuk, Armani Cin(que)zari, Italian, Greek from Peloponese, Greek from Russia, Russian, etc etc.

search Forebears

http://forebears.io/surnames?q=Russos

it gives 7298 modern Greeks with this name,

and Rousos with 1 s gives 580 and Rossos gives 495 and Russis 1693
and Russias gives 353 to Italy,

JUST OPEN the map, PRESS the name,

http://forebears.io/surnames/roussos
 
Pax Augusta said:
Come on, not only Colombo and all the Russos, everything in Italy is of Greek origin, even the Alps, the dogs, the horses, the trees and the rivers in Italy are of Greek origin. A populace of 10 million Greeks have generated 60 milion Italians in Italy and 140 milion Italians around the world. :LOL:
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Not everything. For example the river Po is from Albanian. Po in Albanian is yes. You see? There you go. You have robbed an Albanian river.
 
Sile said:
Maybe you can find more information on the catalan company in Chios and Asia minor.................story is colombus family line was part of this catalan company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_campaign_in_Asia_Minor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Company

They where replaced in the area by the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navarrese_Company

His family then went back to Barcelona, but by this time , the kingdom of Aragon gave their lands and titles to the duchy of Barcelona. moving forward, scholars state that columbus could not even speak or understand Genoese


After the berbers where cleared out of Spain..........the Castilian cortes of Isabella had many major issues with the catalan cortes of ferdinand , a division appeared ............ It got worse after Isabella died and Ferdinand tried to marry a Navarrese princess. Due to these bad feelings, the Catalans where the ones to hide Colombus/Colon identity by moving his family to Genoa ( early on ) and so prevent the Castilians to grap any glory that a "spaniard" discovered the new world.
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Sile
the man was accomodated for 2 years by Giustiniani De Banca family, maybe the biggest Dogi of Genouates (Genovese) Democracy,
If he was a simple weaver's son do you believe he would be accomodated so long?

At Kerkyra -Corfu if you enter some pallazzos or Liston before the Francais occupation and your name was not at Libro d' oro, you could even face death penalty.
even today the term Ποπολαρος POPOLAROS which is Italian word is used there and means all classes except nobles.

he had Genovese citizenship and born and raised at Genoua, and also he used to dress himshelf as Genovese merchant,
But Italian nobility was given to him at 1494.

we could knew Colompo's origin when the Ispanians gave Diego (his son) citizenship and nobility, after 1500,
but I do not know if it was in purpose, or they did not knew, etc etc. THEY DID NOT MENTIONED HIS EX-ORIGIN (before the Ispanic one)

Colompo's Religion,
At Chios island the Colombos had Orthodox priest,
But Colombo was Catholic,
How come this happened,
searching History of Church at balkans and East Roman we know that after the great Schism created many sub-groups
some of them are saved even today Like ΟΥΝΙΑ UNIA which are typically with new calendar, but they follow the old calendar Greek Orthodox at shape language etc etc, but they praise the Pope,
after 1200 started a movement that is called Ενωτικοι Unificates, which desire the reunion of 2 churches,
that effort created the 1438 council of Ferrara Florence (Συνοδος Φερραρας Φλωρεντιας), pope Eugenios IV
After 1439 have turn to Catholicism for part of population from Balkans and East Empire, even to Syrrian Christians
Chios and Psara were among them,
as you see part of catholics in Greece are remnants of crusaders, emporion settlers, rulers etc etc.
and part is from that council, 1439
at that council also participated Γεωργιος Παλαιολογος or Colon le Jeune, or George the Greek,
and his team and ambassadors were the first to be baptised Catholics, although Markos of Ephesos and rest of 700 left due to 'et fillio' (Filioque).
that cost him an exile because he did not kept the union of the 700 mission,
that is why Georgios is known as the exiled Byzantine priest.
Colombo's relatives probably were also at that Council, if as some claim Georgios was not his father,
 
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It's "tin foil hat" time, apparently. It's ok; it's a free "internet", and I'm trying to take a calmer, more detached approach and see the humor in some of these things.

Yetos, that man couldn't look less Italian. :) You really should watch both of the "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" movies, and I say that as someone who in real life is very, very fond of Greek people. (And yes, I see a lot of similarities with Italians!)
 
Angela said:
It's "tin foil hat" time, apparently. It's ok; It's a free "internet", and I'm trying to take a calmer, more detached approach and see the humor in some of these things.

Yetos, that man couldn't look less Italian. :) You really should watch both of the "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" movies, and I say that as someone who in real life is very, very fond of Greek people. (And yes, I see a lot of similarities with Italians!)
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Hahaha,
you see,
by Term Rousso- surely he can be a Romano-Latin one, (Armani or Italian)

by Term -opoulos surely he is Peloponese Greek,

by meaning of Rousso he can be of Russian or Viking origin,


but she is Christina Roussou (surname male -os, female turns to possesive -ou) in Italian Russu.
she is a writer of Aromani Origin from Central Makedonia (towards Megle) from the town Naoussa that Romans used and developed and kept strong army.

roussou-ntoulmpera.jpg
 
Columbus might been a Marrano/Jew?

Recently, a number of Spanish scholars, such as Jose Erugo, Celso Garcia de la Riega, Otero Sanchez and Nicholas Dias Perez, have concluded that Columbus was a Marrano, whose survival depended upon the suppression of all evidence of his Jewish background in face of the brutal, systematic ethnic cleansing.
Columbus, who was known in Spain as Cristóbal Colón and didn't speak Italian, signed his last will and testament on May 19, 1506, and made five curious -- and revealing -- provisions.
Two of his wishes -- tithe one-tenth of his income to the poor and provide an anonymous dowry for poor girls -- are part of Jewish customs. He also decreed to give money to a Jew who lived at the entrance of the Lisbon Jewish Quarter.
On those documents, Columbus used a triangular signature of dots and letters that resembled inscriptions found on gravestones of Jewish cemeteries in Spain. He ordered his heirs to use the signature in perpetuity.
According to British historian Cecil Roth's "The History of the Marranos," the anagram was a cryptic substitute for the Kaddish, a prayer recited in the synagogue by mourners after the death of a close relative. Thus, Columbus' subterfuge allowed his sons to say Kaddish for their crypto-Jewish father when he died. Finally, Columbus left money to support the crusade he hoped his successors would take up to liberate the Holy Land.
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Best History Book of 2016 - COLUMBUS-The Untold Story by Manuel Rosa

Having read Manuel Rosa's book, which was just named BEST HISTORY BOOK of 2016 by Huffington Post, I just say I agree with Rosa. The history as we knew it was falsified and the guy who sailed in 1492 was never called COLUMBUS or COLOMBO. Historians really had it wrong on this one. Rosa spent 25 years of research and though some argue he is an IT guy at Duke, please realize Rosa's first book was published in 2006 after 15 years of research and the Duke site reads as Duke employee only after first book.
There is a list of academics and history professors siding with Rosa in Portugal, USA and Poland. I was truly surprised by the amount of evidence presented in the book, which debunks once and for all the idea that Columbus, the wool weaver from Genoa we had accepted, was the same guy who sailed in 1492. A clear case of mistaken identity was made and Rosa unravels all of that in his book.
I only have to make this final point, it is amazing with the amount of documentation available which points to the correct history that nobody else was able to debunk that Italian fairy tale before Rosa did it.
Soon the history books will have no choice but to be rewritten. Columbus was not Columbus and he was not Italian.
I ausgehst you read o Rosa's blog the reviews of his readers if you want more details. Especially the text by Dr. E. Lee Spence, Underwater Archaeologist
President, Sea Research Society, VP, International Diving Institute... nothing more I can say except the truth shall set everyone free and in my view, Rosa has uncovered the truth... www . columbus - book . com
 
Yetis, Rosa also writes about this famous (le Jeune) but I note that you have corrupted his name to Colon. Le Jeune (the Younger) was a "Colombo" not Colon.
The names of the two French pirates were Colombo "the Elder" and Colombo "the Younger" because when Muslims invaded Constantinople, Prince George Dissipates ran way to France where he became famous at sea battles and so they called him Colombo "the Younger" in honor of the other famous French sea fighter, Vice-Admiral of Normandy, [FONT=arial, sans-serif]Guillermo de Casanove, called Colombo because his ship was called "La Colombe"..
But note that these two Frenchmen were in he service of the King of Portugal in 1476 when Columbus supposedly swam ashore from his sinking ship.
The Greek connection is only that Columbus was related to [/FONT]Colombo "the Younger"[FONT=arial, sans-serif]

[/FONT]
 
@ Damas

you are refferering to this from Vecinian chronicles

''« Colombo le Jeune, neveu (ou fils) de l'illustre pirate Colombo »''
or this?

''« le fils de Colombo et Jean le Grec »'' 2 years after the death of Casanove


I suggest read my the post #13,

it is in Italian,
If you do not know,
I can find an english translation,

Σισσιλιανος (D Sissiliano) believes that he was his son and hide him at Gevona, (sponsa imperialis)
it is a possible hypothesis, but an hypothesis,

besides generally if we read Colombus letters and rest, he could not been born at 1451, but earlier,
Prince George (the younger) was exiled from Palaiologos family at council of Ferrera-Florence not after 1453 but around 11438-1439, 10 years before Moameth enters Con/polis
search Samuel Eliot Morison work about the atopon that follows Las Casas and Ferdinard and Colompus himshelf notes, about dates,

 
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Huffington Post

NON-FICTION - HISTORY Best Book of The Year 2016 -

COLUMBUS—THE UNTOLD STORYBy Manuel Rosa
The Best of 2016

25 years of research has pieced together a stunning array of artifacts and data, from one end of Europe to another, from Asia, Africa and the Americas: a chapel ruin, a ceiling mural in a private palace, DNA test results, an impressive diversity of documents, keenly analyzed . . . and a sword, unearthed by a Bulgarian peasant, that found its way to a museum in Saint Petersburg. The study and comparison of carefully censored State archives also helped explain Columbus’ life -- hitherto enshrouded in the deceitful machinations of power politics, false identities, and false discoveries in the Age of Exploration. Myth has at last been separated from fact, exposing what actually transpired. Being extremely fond of writing memoirs, journals and letters, the man known as Columbus left a great deal of this overwhelming proof himself. Now, 523 years later, his writings assisted in his own undoing. Many other clues -- meant to be deciphered generations later, when the need for secrecy had passed -- have been painstakingly gathered and analyzed. Some were cryptically displayed in the details of portraiture and esoteric writings, others in the most obvious features of one of the greatest works of Spanish Baroque drama, on heraldry, on a gravestone, via signatures and pseudonyms. What emerges is the picture of a consummate and cunning double-agent, with a bold and grandiose agenda. Enter this 500-year-old labyrinth and discover the unimaginable: a medieval conspiracy so audacious, so massive, and so well executed that it fooled the world for half a millennium.

I am fascinated by your book! It is the most thoroughly researched book on the topic
of the man the world knows as "Christopher Columbus" that I have ever read.
– Robert Bilicki

www . 1492 . us . com​
 
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