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Thread: Growth of the far right in Germany

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    Was not the Austrians (Central powers) that were occupying South Slavic lands and expanding? assasination of the their archduke was just pretext,this war was previously planned by "great powers" of it's time for control of lands.
    But Archduke Ferdinand was not killed by South Slavs, but from serbs terrorist. South slavs are not only the serbs.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    No there is a difference the Soviet rule was basically due to external factors, Hitler was an internal choice not forced upon. Weimar didn't automatically lead tot Hitler. Otherwise we fall into some kind of fatalistic , kind of faith, view on history. I don't agree with that.
    I couldn't agree more. (Sorry I have no more thumbs up to award today.) Countries make choices, as Germany did with Hitler and Italy did earlier with Mussolini. Then they have to live with the consequences.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    But Archduke Ferdinand was not killed by South Slavs, but from serbs terrorist. South slavs are not only the serbs.
    Gavrilo(Bosnian Serb) had more luck in killing him,the Bosnian Muslim was first to attack and saw him but had no chance to throw his bomb cause of police.The organization Young Bosnia was from people of mixed origin or rather faith.If you know the division in this nationalities.

    "The political union of the Yugoslavs [..] was my basic idea [..] I am a Yugoslav nationalist, aiming for the unification of all Yugoslavs, and I do not care what form of state, but it must be free from Austria"
    -Gavrilo Princip during his trial.

    He was 18 years old.

    Many different ideas were around regardless how we today like to interpret it.Also your hatred toward the Serbs is quite visible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    Gavrilo(Bosnian Serb) had more luck in killing him,the Bosnian Muslim was first to attack and saw him but had no chance to throw his bomb cause of police.The organization Young Bosnia was from people of mixed origin or rather faith.If you know the division in this nationalities.

    "The political union of the Yugoslavs [..] was my basic idea [..] I am a Yugoslav nationalist, aiming for the unification of all Yugoslavs, and I do not care what form of state, but it must be free from Austria"
    -Gavrilo Princip during his trial.

    Many different ideas were around regardless how we today like to interpret it.
    Gavrilo Princip was a poor villager of 19 years, brainwashed from the secret services of serbia, sick with tuberculosis. Have a look carefully who were the other members of the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    Also your hatred toward the Serbs is quite visible in this forum.
    This is totally unrelated with this topic and is a slander. Well, it`s your style, what can we do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Gavrilo Princip was a poor villager of 19 years, brainwashed from the secret services of serbia, sick with tuberculosis. Have a look carefully who were the other members of the team.

    This is totally unrelated with this topic and is a slander. Well, it`s your style, what can we do?
    Other then arguing here on the forum and promoting Albanian nationalism i don't see anything else from you,yesterday were Greeks or Romei? today Serbs,prior than that Macedonians,i don't know how admins tolerate you yet,and not ban you from the forum.
    Last edited by Milan.M; 30-01-17 at 00:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    Other then arguing here on the forum and promoting Albanian nationalism i don't see anything else from you,yesterday were Greeks or Romei? today Serbs,prior than that Macedonians,i don't know how admins tolerate you yet,and not ban you from the forum.
    This forum is Balkan nationalist free nowadays and is good,pitty that on most this anthropology forums nationalists from the Balkans are most frequent.
    Can you bring an example from my posts where i promote Albanian nationalism? The problem is that you are a low level poster and a liar. Now please stay on topic and stop with this ad homminem attacks. There are other places where you can perform your talent as a trooll, it`s the only thing you know to do.
    Last edited by LABERIA; 30-01-17 at 06:17.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Can you bring an example from my posts where i promote Albanian nationalism? The problem is that you are a low level poster an a liar. Now please stay on topic and stop with this ad homminem attacks. There are other places where you can perform your talent as a trooll, it`s the only thing you know to do.
    I replied that Austrian occupation of Bosnia was not justifiable,and why i care about this,do not reply on my post anymore i don't like discussion with you.

    Yes it is terrorist attack which i do not approve but what led to it,was Serbian occupation on Albania good for you?
    Or because you achieved your independence through Austria later you show your sympathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    But Archduke Ferdinand was not killed by South Slavs, but from serbs terrorist. South slavs are not only the serbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    I replied that Austrian occupation of Bosnia was not justifiable,and why i care about this,do not reply on my post anymore i don't like discussion with you.

    Yes it is terrorist attack which i do not approve but what led to it,was Serbian occupation on Albania good for you?
    If you don't like to discuss with me why you continue with a question? You have not the intelligence to discuss with me. First of all read what you post here, read the link of wiki.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    If you don't like to discuss with me why you continue with a question? You have not the intelligence to discuss with me. First of all read what you post here, read the link of wiki.
    That was good example for you on your reply, and get lost from my posts once and forever i'll add you on ignore list if the admins don't want to ban you.
    You are a coward and loser with no life,full of hatred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    That was good example for you on your reply, and get lost from my posts once and forever i'll add you on ignore list if the admins don't want to ban you.
    You are a coward and loser with no life,full of hatred.
    At least read what you post here, really it's not serious when someone post something that he has never read before. Your link is a prove that this attack was committed by a terrorist group. Do you realise what you have posted?

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    1 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    The attack against Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, is perhaps the first kamikaze terrorist attack in European history. Those who organized this attack, were aware that after this event, to Austria remained two options:
    1) The empire accepted the humiliation occurred from this small kingdom of serbia.
    2) The Empire decided to attack this kingdom.
    The Austrians opted for a third solution, not belligerent. They asked to the serbian authorities, the permission that an Austrian commission investigated this crime. The serbian authorities did not accepted this compromise that could eliminate the possibility of a war.
    Since the first option was unacceptable, remained the second.
    Thus, the direct responsibility for the WWI, falls on serbia and those who were behind.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    That was good example for you on your reply, and get lost from my posts once and forever i'll add you on ignore list if the admins don't want to ban you.
    You are a coward and loser with no life,full of hatred.
    If you can't hold your nerves in check don't discuss emotional subjects. I think you should apologies to Laberia.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    If you can't hold your nerves in check don't discuss emotional subjects. I think you should apologies to Laberia.
    Damn
    You and laberia can apologize me,if i even accept that.
    Has nothing to do with nerves but that suit him perfectly,you too perhaps,i'm out of this forum anyway.
    Don't pick sides as admin or pretend you don't see what's going on,on other threads too.
    Maciamo should replace you from here lol
    The "admins" here are chasing people away rather then being "advisors" as it is written there far from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    Damn
    You and laberia can apologize me,if i even accept that.
    Has nothing to do with nerves but that suit him perfectly,you too perhaps,i'm out of this forum anyway.
    Don't pick sides as admin or pretend you don't see what's going on,on other threads too.
    Maciamo should replace you from here lol
    The "admins" here are chasing people away rather then being "advisors" as it is written there far from it.
    We have advised you many times, and our effort was wasted, as you still cling to your same old crazy ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    This lady doesn't just follow the opinion polls, or exploits dispair for own opportunistic reasons.
    That's doesn't rule out miscalculation though.
    But i like leaders who take their responsibility, who act with conscience....
    Certainly politics is not all about moral....but.....we need like someone said about Helmut Schmidt the great old German chancellor , 'politik mit klarheit und moral' politics with clarity and moral...
    There are enough opportunistic wolves nowadays!
    that is what I was saying
    Merkel does not provide clarity
    she hides behind moral principles in order to avoid all discussion

    by making a pact with Erdogan she proves that her policies don't work
    she should have the courage to discuss moral principles versus reality in Germany and come to a policy that does work
    instead she is twisting her own words

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's the New York Times, so maybe some skepticism is in order...

    See:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/w...=tw-share&_r=0

    Amazing how many evocations of Nazism can be packed into a couple of sentences:

    " At a chandelier-lit beer hall on Tuesday evening, the lean blond man’s voice boomed out over a crowd of hundreds — some middle-aged and working-class, but with a contingent of polished young professionals.“The AfD is the last revolutionary, the last peaceful chance for our fatherland,” declared the man, Björn Höcke, referring to the political party Alternative for Germany, and employing a reverential term for Germany, one of several nationalist buzzwords usually shunned in the country’s politics.
    “Jawohl!” a few shouted. “Yes!”
    When Mr. Höcke (pronounced HOOK-ay) lamented that “German history is handled as rotten and made to look ridiculous” — a subtle but clear reference to guilt for the Holocaust and other Nazi war crimes — the crowd responded by chanting, “Deutschland, Deutschland.”


    Two issues:

    First, in a very New York Times matter, the name "Höcke" does not actually rhyme with "Hook-ay": the ö is about the same sound as with English "learn", "bird" and "Germany". The e is about the same sound as "comma", "bitter".

    The AfD are not actually pro-Germany. Even their name is an oxymoron. How can it be an alternative for Germany to withdraw from the EU, kick out foreigners and hide under nationalist isolationism? If they ever come to power, our economy is going to implode. The EU (or rather, the entity that has become the EU by today) has given us decades of peace, stability and economic prosperity, and they want to destroy all of this. Not because they want a better alternative, but because they're plain and simple Shills For Putin.
    Last edited by Taranis; 30-01-17 at 18:21.

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    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    It is a leader's task to defend his nation's interests. Therefore Merkel is a terrible leader. She puts the interests of Middle Easterners over those of her own people. That is betrayal, no matter what moral platitudes she uses to defend her behaviour. She resembles an attorney in a lawsuit who suddenly starts to advocate for other party while still being paid by the original client. By opening the gates to an invading army, Merkel has become a mortal enemy of the German people. The supportes of the so-called "Far-Right" are just folks with a healthy sense of self-preservation who don't enjoy being replaced by strangers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groninger View Post
    By opening the gates to an invading army, Merkel has become a mortal enemy of the German people.
    Let's not get carried away.

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    I agree that Merkel has "created" the neo-Nazi far right due to her immigration policies ...............only a reversal of the immigration issues is the only way I can see as a demise of these neo-nazi

    right wingers will detest these neo-nazi ONLY when these immigrants are finalised ...............so, neo-nazi currently have a function
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Fact check:
    Since Merkel's administration Germany has compared to the other EU nations ...
    the 6th position of the old (non-ex-Iron-curtain) countries in average annual GDP growth
    the 4h position in purchasing power
    the 1st position in percentage of employed
    the last position in percentage of unemployed.
    Really, Merkel is definitely ruthless in working against her peoples' interests!

    Fact check 2:
    In the European elections 2014 the AfD got a third of their votes from the upper fifth people of income (entrepreneurs).
    In 2015, when Germany received a million refugees, the AfD had fallen from over 10% to just above 5% in the regional elections.
    In the elections of 2016 most of their gain was caused by workers and jobless (failure of the SPD politics, about 30% of their clientel voted AfD).

    There is high volatility and very different reasons for voting AfD. Immigrants are only a part of the calc.
    AfD gets their votees from...
    CDU/CSU - not chauvinist enough anymore (that's not the same as xenophobic - more "Germany First" = envy society)
    SPD - workers and jobless feel let down by them
    FDP - liberals who want less social matters in their party
    die Linke - especially in Eastern Germany, dislike the immigrant-positive politics of the lefties.
    Altogether the AfD is a collecting basin for people who don't/can't get enough.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Well, if we're going to talk about fact checking, it seems I was right to show at least some skepticism about the claims of mass sexual mayhem by refugees or illegals during those celebrations in Germany.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20170214/mas...letely-made-up

    This is why you have to take all media reports nowadays with a huge grain of salt. Even the ones who are trying to present actual facts and aren't shilling for one side or the other don't check their sources.

    We've had the same thing here with most of the cases involving cop shootings.

    You have to be very cautious.

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    We are in the postfactual era already for a long time. The faster news move around the world the less time journalists have to check the facts. You won't make a fortune in the media-biz if you are the 75th who publishes the particular news. You have to be one of the first.

    If you want only facts just skip the news. You won't miss much, rarely anything worth recalling, except for coffee pause talk.

    Just checked the criminal statistics of Germany 2015 (the 2016 one isn't pulished yet). The sexual violence crimes against women decreased almost 2% compared to the year before, overall the number of crimes decreased as well, if you subtract the immigration law related crimes which tripled that year (no surprise with that high amount of refugees finding their way to Germany). So, no reason to make a drama out of it, just because some crimes got much attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, if we're going to talk about fact checking, it seems I was right to show at least some skepticism about the claims of mass sexual mayhem by refugees or illegals during those celebrations in Germany.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20170214/mas...letely-made-up

    This is why you have to take all media reports nowadays with a huge grain of salt. Even the ones who are trying to present actual facts and aren't shilling for one side or the other don't check their sources.

    We've had the same thing here with most of the cases involving cop shootings.

    You have to be very cautious.
    comm on Angela, you should now better
    it's not because 2 people made some false claims that other facts like the cologne new years eve rape never happened
    and where are the apologies of the shameless politicians who at first denied something happened that night ?

    you're right though not to trust the media
    but the worst thing you can do, if you want to stop people from voting for the AfD is to go in denial and say all the problems with immigrants are just made up

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    it's not because 2 people made some false claims that other facts like the cologne new years eve rape never happened
    and where are the apologies of the shameless politicians who at first denied something happened that night ?
    I assume you mean first of all the Cologne Mayor Henriette Reker. But I beg to differ in this whole case, things are not so simple. She was stabbed during her election campaign ten weeks before the event and was inaugurated only two weeks before New Year. She is an independent candidate so no political party behind her with their network. The first press releases of the police didn't mention anything about riots, they described everything as "jolly atmosphere - festivities mostly peaceful". Only slice by slice the police disclosed the results of their investigations, knowing the shattering effect of false accusations. The regional home ministery requested further that they skip mentioning rapes by asylum seeking people, again keeping unproved accusations back.

    In effect Reker got the knowledge of the full extent of the riots no less than a week after the event. Then she was tricked by the media. They asked her what she would advise women to do to avoid such situations and she quoted an existing communal guideline for safety during partying. The media quoted her without the question they asked, and accused her of victim blaming. I have a clear opinion about who is to call shameless here.

    There are a few things that she as a 'been never before politician' has to learn:
    - Talk-talk-talk, but never tell something to the media.
    - Shut the f... up as long as investigations are not finished.

    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    but the worst thing you can do, if you want to stop people from voting for the AfD is to go in denial and say all the problems with immigrants are just made up
    I don't think there was ever a denial. You just don't tell around things that are not proved, especially in delicate matters. Facts were poor, despite a great amount of people with smartphones there was not much video material good enough to prove crimes. There was a lot of skepticism at first, assuming that this may have been made up by right wing organizations like Pegida or AfD. It took a couple of weeks to see the full extent of the events. Add proved fake accusations and nobody knows what's true or not.

    The real problem with all this is the lack of knowledge about customs and (sometimes bad) habits of people migrating into Germany. Politics and authorities didn't know enough about this so they were completely unprepared. That's a big mistake, but it's not a reason to rebuke the whole refugee politics.
    Last edited by ngc598; 19-02-17 at 15:03. Reason: typoes

  25. #50
    Banned Achievements:
    100 Experience PointsTagger Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-11-16
    Posts
    184


    Ethnic group
    Neapolitan, Swiss, Slavic
    Country: Hungary



    In a nutshell when people face with new problems and it's source is external by origin then new aspects of ideas are needed in order to solve it's root problem.
    In this case the immigration -- Antithesis will be to prevent migration and the actual politic can't solute this so more people seek alternative political parties for a possible synthesis.

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