why Okunevo culture was ingored in Indo-European history? they are just paleo people

[johen]

Seima-Turbino transcultural phenomenon (22-17century bc) starting from Altai (p 91 in the below research)

As mentioned above, the EasAsMP’s earliestphase was associated with the striking Seima Turbinotranscultural phenomenon, and subsequentlyit seems to continue the Seima-Turbinotraditions of metallurgy and metal processing.The most important materials characteristic of theearly EasAsMP come from burials of the widelyknown Karasuk cultures (Chlenova 1972;Chernykh 1992: 264-271) (13). The numerousmetal finds come from graves, most of whichhave been destroyed by recent tillage.Between the early Seima-Turbino and laterKarasuk types of metallurgy there are sufficientlystriking and obvious points of interrelation (compareFigs. 14 and 17). However, attempts to reconstructthe dynamics of metallurgical developmentin the Sayn-Altay region encounterdisappointing lacunae in the available evidence.We have shown that the aggressive wave ofSeima-Turbino populations was definitely aimedwestwards. We saw that its chronological range,established by contacts with the Abashevo Sintashtacommunity is the five centuries from2200 to 1700 BC

The “Steppe Belt” of stockbreeding cultures in Eurasia during the Early Metal Age
El “Cinturón estepario” de culturas ganaderas en Eurasia durante la Primera Edad del Metal Evgeny Chernykh (*)
http://tp.revistas.csic.es/index.php/tp/article/viewFile/149/150

By wiki

The Altai Mountains in what is now southern Russia and central Mongolia have been identified as the point of origin of the cultural enigma of Seima-Turbino Phenomenon.^[2][4] The culture spread from these mountains to the west.^[3] Artefact types such as spearheads with hooks, single-bladed knives and socketed axes with geometric designs traveled west.^[5]Although they were the precursor to the much later Mongol invasions, these groups were not yet strong enough to attack the important social sites of the Bronze Age.^[6]
It is conjectured that changes in climate in this region around 2000 BC and the ensuing ecological, economic and political changes triggered a rapid and massive migration westward into northeast Europe, eastward into China and southward into Vietnam and Thailand across a frontier of some 4,000 miles.^[4]

Nevertheless, there are clearly certain contacts between two given waves orstreams. Some cemeteries of obviously Seima-Turbino type clearly include burials with Abashevo or Abashevo-Sintashta weapons and (occasionally) ceramics. These burials follow Seima-Turbino ritual canons: i.e., human remains were almost always absent. These cases are important for both the relative and absolute chronology of the two groups. It is remarkable, however, that Abashevo Sintashta necropolises do not contain Seima-Turbino elements

In southern Siberia, the Okunevo culture probably learned about copper-base metallurgyfrom the Afanasievo (Chernykh et al. 2004, p. 28). However, while the rare Afanasievometal artifacts are of unalloyed copper, gold, and silver, the Okunevo used both copper andtin-bronze for knives, awls, and bracelets. Okunevo finds include one bronze cast socketedspearhead, the earliest such spearhead this far east

Compare semima-Turbino’s weapon and sintashta’s

David Anthony (2007, pp. 434–444) has commented, ‘the tin-bronze spears, daggers, and axes of the Seima–Turbino horizon were among the most technically and aesthetically refined weapons in the ancient world, but they were made by forest and forest-steppe societies that in some places…still depended on hunting and fishing’

In cemeteries of obviously Seima-Turbino

In sintashta

 

[johen]

Afanasevo Culture
R1b1a2-M269, R1b1a2-M269, R1b1a(xR1b1a1 M73), Q-M242
Okunevo Culture,
NO(xO), NO(xO), NO(xO), Q1a3a-L54, Q1a3-M346(xL54), R1b1a2-M269.
Sagsai Culture,
Q1a3a-L54, Q1a3a-L54, Q1a3a-L54, R1a-Z93, R1a-Z93, R1a-Z93, C-M130

The Afanasievo and Okunevo are Minusinsk Basin(kh) site samples.
As far as I know, radiocarbon have dates as early as 3,000 BC on the afanasievo human remains and 2,500bc in the Minusinsk okunevo remains.
Problem is there is okunevo kurgans being built before 3,500bc.
http://www.clarkriley.com/JIES4034web/07Sokolova(434-456).pdf (p443)

So I think Y DNA sleeping in the oldest okunevo kurgan will help us to understand the relationship between afanasievo and Okunevo.

 

[Northener]

Seima-Turbino transcultural phenomenon (22-17century bc) starting from Altai (p 91 in the below research)



The “Steppe Belt” of stockbreeding cultures in Eurasia during the Early Metal Age
El “Cinturón estepario” de culturas ganaderas en Eurasia durante la Primera Edad del Metal Evgeny Chernykh (*)
http://tp.revistas.csic.es/index.php/tp/article/viewFile/149/150

By wiki




Compare semima-Turbino’s weapon and sintashta’s


In cemeteries of obviously Seima-Turbino

In sintashta

Johen,

How real is a Seima-Turbino/ Tumulus connection!?
This is what S.A. Grigoryev stated about the relationship Steppe and Tumulus:
" During XVI-XV centuries artefacts closely related to Seyma tradition became typical for hoards in Pannonia, France and England. Thus, these bronzes distribution marks the moving of Celts.
A new wave of newcomers left F’odorovo culture sites. Some include usually this culture, together with Alakul culture, in Andronovo culture. However, all attempts to find its local roots had no success. But these roots are in North-Western Iran and South Azerbaijan: cremation in stone boxes and cysts under mounds, clay props for hearth, oval dishes, polished ware. Complex of metal have analogies in Circumpontic area, but first of all, in Sumbar culture in South-Western Turkmenistan. Potteries from Central Asia have been found in some F’odorovo sites.
Typical F’odorovo artefacts are known up to Dnieper river. However, a contact of F’odorovo tribes with first wave of newcomers is more important for us. As a result of this contact new cultures were formed, which fix this contact and a gradual displacement of these populations to the West: Chernoozerie in Irtish basin, Cherkaskul in the Urals, Suskan and Prikazanskaia in Volga-Kama region, Pozdniakovo in Oka basin. These cultures combine cremation and inhumation, mounds and flat burials, bronzes of Seyma and F’odorovo types.
Next moving of these tribes to the West leads to forming of Sosnitzkaia culture on the left-bank of Dnieper, Trzciniec-Komarov culture from Dnieper to Vistula and Tumulus culture in Central and Northern Europe. These cultures reflect localisation of Balts, Slavs and Germans."

 

[Northener]

Seima-Turbino transcultural phenomenon (22-17century bc) starting from Altai (p 91 in the below research)



The “Steppe Belt” of stockbreeding cultures in Eurasia during the Early Metal Age
El “Cinturón estepario” de culturas ganaderas en Eurasia durante la Primera Edad del Metal Evgeny Chernykh (*)
http://tp.revistas.csic.es/index.php/tp/article/viewFile/149/150

By wiki




Compare semima-Turbino’s weapon and sintashta’s


In cemeteries of obviously Seima-Turbino

In sintashta

Oops the Seima-Turbino comes close I guess!!

On Gedmatch there is a possibility to compare your autosomal DNA with the "golden oldies".
Today I compared it on different levels, this is the result:

1. Ust-Ishim Siberia 45kya up to 6cM, Omsk, Seima-Turbino
2. Clovis Montana 12,5 kya up to 4cM, Native America, ANE like
3. Loschbour Lux 8 kya up to 4cM, WHG
4. Nei Hungary 7,2 kya up to 4cM, Neoltihic Hungary
5. LBK Stuttgart 7 kya up to 3cM, Neolithic Southern Germany
6. Br 2 Hungary 3,2 kya up to 3cM Bronze Age Hungary
7. Rise Sweden 3,7 KY up to 3 cM R1b U106 Corded Ware Sweden

When you overlook this result you can easily see from where the wind blows.....from the east, cold Steppe blow! Especially number 1 is related to the Seima-Turbino. This is an old finding from Omsk. Omsk is the heartland of the Seima-Turbino. The second one, a native American, is related to ANE. Also far Northeastern Russia. The others speak for themselves.

Maybe bias but according to me this fits in the Steppe-Tumulus-NW Europe pattern.

PS
overlooked one the 5 cm one, makes it:
1. Ust-Ishim Siberia 45kya up to 6cM, Omsk, Seima-Turbino


2. Ne 1 Hungary 7,2 kya up to 5cM, Neoltihic Hungary


3. Clovis Montana 12,5 kya up to 4cM, Native America, ANE like
4. Loschbour Lux 8 kya up to 4cM, WHG
5. LBK Stuttgart 7 kya up to 3cM, Neolithic Southern Germany
6. Br 2 Hungary 3,2 kya up to 3cM Bronze Age Hungary
7. Rise Sweden 3,7 KY up to 3 cM R1b U106 Corded Ware Sweden

 

[Northener]

Seems to me this can't be ignored, anonymous autor, about the spread of Pazyryk Scythian;

 

[johen]

Seems to me this can't be ignored, anonymous autor, about the spread of Pazyryk Scythian;

Okunevo stelle and scythian ice princess 2,500bc

http://siberiantimes.com/science/ca...d-from-breast-cancer-reveals-unique-mri-scan/
http://cinabrio.over-blog.es/tag/archaelogy/9

==> see the shamanism in Rock Art of Karakol, afanasievo and oKunevo.

Rock Art of the Eneolithic and Bronze:
I of - early (Eneolithic) image 1) - Kolbak-Tash, Altai Mountains, 2.3) - Saimaly-Tash, Tien Shan, Kyrgyzstan, 4) - a plate of burial Karakol, Gorny Altai 5-7) - some colorful images of anthropomorphic creatures of burial Karakol (by VD Kubarev); II -Images Bronze: 1) - Karatau, Kazakhstan, 2) - Tomsk pisanitsa, 3-6) - the mask Mugur-Sargol, Yenisei (for MA Devlet), 7-9) - the image of the chariots, 10, 11 ) - pisanitsa headwaters of the Yenisei (by Devlet MA), 12) - Elangash, Gorny Altai

http://arheologija.ru/iskusstvo-bronzovogo-veka-evrazii/

Fig. 159. Figures on the fragment of sandstone stelae, reuse the grave cemetery №1 Tas Haas (afanasevo culture; by A. Lipski).
https://db06ec50-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...VhaOJ0sk9xTqUllqQLsy8W-1IC5g==&attredirects=2

 

[johen]

Did IE horse riders enter Europe?

2000 bce

• Celts enter Europe with their small, gaited horses; bays and tobianos are common. Their goddess is Epona, who gives her name to the word “pony.” Austurcons, Galacians, and Garranos are descendants of the Celtic pony. (DNA testing has confirmed relationships between the breeds, as well as a relationship between the Sorraia, Konik, and the recreated Tarpan.)

1400 bce

• Celts enter northern Spain with the domestic horse.

Epona, Celtic Horse goddess courtesy of Chris Hopkins, Parthia.com

Timeline of the Development of the Horse by Beverley Davis
http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp177_horses.pdf

 

[johen]

Seems to me this can't be ignored, anonymous autor, about the spread of Pazyryk Scythian;

New Theory on Origin of Scythians Put Forward
Posted By: David DeMarPosted date: March 09, 2017

New research into non-metric cranial trait frequencies has led one group of anthropologists from Lomonosov Moscow State University to publish a new theory on the origin of Scythians.
A group of Iranian Eurasian peoples that inhabited large regions of the Eurasian steppes from around the ninth century BCE through the first century BCE, the Scythians once held sway over swathes of land from the northern shores of the Black Sea through to central China. For years, historians and anthropologists have been at a loss in discovering the origins of the Scythian people, with several theories forming regarding the group’s genetics and migratory patterns.
Now, thanks to the research conducted by these Russian scientists, evidence has been presented that may create a clearer picture of the origins of this ancient people. The Scythian gene pool, these anthropologists say, was formed on the basis of local tribes, some of which participated in a migration from Central Asia to the northern Black Sea region.
According to a university press release, anthropologists conducted comparative analysis of non-metric cranial trait frequencies in the remains of Scythians found in the northern Black Sea region. These non-metric traits were then compared to those gathered from Central Asian and Eastern European remains dating to the Bronze Age to look for commonalities.
These so-called “cranial series” are groups of skulls found from either one burial or several burials spaced closely together, and from either one archaeological culture or one ethnic group. Non-metric, varying cranial traits can reflect minor anatomical variations in the human skull. These variations take the form of irregular skull sutures and processes or additional and irregular holes, and are consistent among those with similar genetics.
When compared to data gathered from molecular genetic markers, these non-metric cranial traits tell a similar tale in determining the genetic distances between populations. Many researchers have begun to use these cranial trait comparisons as an alternative to direct DNA research, which can be much more expensive and not necessarily always appropriate.
There are two major hypotheses regarding the origin of the Scythians. One claims the Scythians came from Central Asia as invaders, resulting in local Indo-European populations being assimilated by them. The other claims that the ancient people were descended from the “Timber-Grave culture” of the Srubnaya people who lived between the Dneiper and Ural Mountains during the Late Bronze Age.
According to lead author Alla Movesyan, the results of the study provide evidence for both of these theories. In other words, both hypotheses are partly correct: the Scythian gene pool was formed from descendants of the Srubnaya from the Late Bronze Age, but these descendants migrated from Central Asia and mingled with the Indo-Europeans living in the northern Black Sea region.

Nonmetric cranial trait variation and the origins of the Scythians Authors Alla A. Movsesian, Varvara Yu. Bakholdina First published: 24 January 2017

The Late Scythian population considered in this study proved to be genetically homogeneous, although some connections with the Sarmatians were found. We also revealed similarities between the Scythian groups and the local Bronze Age population of the Srubnaya culture, as well as, to a lesser extent, a group representative of the Central Asian Bronze Age Okunevo culture.

okunevo monument and scythian ice princess 2,500bc

http://siberiantimes.com/
http://cinabrio.over-blog.es/tag/archaelogy/9

 

[johen]

just guess how the okunevo people look like:

Okunevo-figurine (big almond eyes)

Hongshan jade in Manchu 5,000bc

And First one: maya, second one: axe for human sacrifice in shang (1,600bc) in china, third : shu culture(2,000bc) in sichuan of China. I think they were all ANE people.

"Most physical anthropologists studying the prehistoric populations of Gorny Altai, too, believe that the key evolutionary factor was hybridization between Caucasoids and Mongoloids. However, human remains recently excavated in that territory suggest that at least in certain cases, intermediacy might have been caused by evolutionary conservatism, leading to unusual combinations of diagnostic traits. Thus, certain prehistoric cranial series from Gorny Altai are characterized by a broad face, equally flattened at the nasomalar and zygo-maxillary levels, convex nasal bones combined with a small nasal prominence angle, medium wide nasal aperture, and broad and low orbits. This combination, which is rather unusual since it cannot be described as either Caucasoid or Mongoloid, shows a remarkable persistence in Gorny Altai over several millennia"

"A unique artistic technique mastered by the ancient artists of Sikachi-Alyan is to place an image on the edge between the faces of a stone. "
https://scfh.ru/en/papers/a-new-reality-of-rock-art-/

Sikachi-Alyan is a small Nanai village on the bank of the Amur river located 75 km north of Khabarovsk. The place is famous for its neolithic petroglyphs (masks) carved on the surface of basalt stones. The drawings date back to the 13th century BC. The local findings demonstrate the ancient history of this area. There is a museum and an open-air reconstruction of an ancient village.^[1]

Petroglyphs with images of the chariots: Altai (A), Tuva (B) and in Kazakhstan (In)
http://arheologija.ru/sotsialno-ekonomicheskie-protsessyi/

[FONT=&quot]A boulder with three chariots in far western Tibet

==> looks like altai, tuva,Kazakhstan, and twestern tibets were chariot factory. [/FONT]

 

[johen]

Stellar Astronomy of the Bronze Age Sanctuaries in North Khakassia
Vitalij E. Larichev† 1 , Elena G. Gienko 2 , Sergey A. Parshikov 3
Abstract

This publication presents the results of two studies of astroarchaeological monuments in North Khakassia confirming the existence of Siberia stellar astronomy in the Bronze age (andronovo culture, Khakassia, mid-II millennium BC). It is proved that in the study area ("Sunduki") Arcturus - the brightest star in the northern sky - was purposefully observed in conjunction with the stars of the Orion constellation (in particular Betelgeuse - the brightest star of the constellation). In both investigated monuments of the Bronze Age were found man-made objects specifying astronomically important areas - a kind of tools to monitor these stars. Because there is no any written source the observed stars and epoch of observation were identified by geodetic measurements and astronomical calculations. This era is XIV-XIII centuries BC which corresponds to the archaeological dating of these objects defined in terms of style and semantics of petroglyphic images marking astronomically significant azimuths. The work confirms the hypothesis of tracking the heliacal and acronycal passages of Arcturus by аndronov priests (the first in the morning and the last in the night) in predetermined directions. Arcturus was observed by priests to determine the winter solstice, the middle of the spring and summer seasons. This revealed the specifications of observing of the heliacal and acronychal passages of stars with a naked eye such as a weakening of the apparent brightness of stars near the horizon at dusk and full moon, as well as the loss of light depending on the angular distance from the sun. Because of these features the first and the last star passages of the year through a given direction can be observed in the time interval up to ten days. The conclusion about the features of the observation of Arcturus by andronovo culture priests confirms and explains the perfection and precision of their lunar-solar calendar systems revised in such a way from the observations of the stars. No less important was the fact that figuring out a direct connection of different types of okunev and andronovo anthropomorphic petroglyphs with astronomically significant directions. This allows us to judge more reliably the semantics of certain images of okunev and andronovo cultures. Due to the fact that until recently Arcturus took a very important place in the astral mythology of indigenous peoples of Siberia the problem of reconstruction of stellar components of andronovo mythology in Khakassia becomes more perspective to solve. The obtained results allow us to consider the whole astronomical dating from observations of stars as a reliable and highly accurate (± 50 years) instrument of ancient man-made structures’ dating which was used with different cultures in the cult practice of astronomical observations.

Overview of archaeological sources confirming the astronomical dating
We consider it necessary to argue our position particularly on correct attribution First Sunduk and Seraphim Stone to Okunev and Andronovo cultures of Khakassia As was convincingly shown by the studies of Khakassia University archeological laboratory under the direction of A. Gotlib [19], D. A. Kirillova and M.A. Podol`skaya publications [20,21], sanctuaries of the same kind in Khakassia existed during different periods of the Bronze Age – from Afanas`ev to Karasuk culture. Okunev ceramics were discovered on four sve (Khakassia term meaning «stronghold on a mountain») examined by these authors. On Chebaki sve that is located 30 km south-west from the described objects A. I. Gottlieb discovered Okunev and Karasuk ceramics. D. A. Kirillova and M.A. Podol`skaya studied sve Kyzul hai, located on the right bank of Black Ius river between s. Ustinkino and s. Podkamen`, 25 km north-west from the objects described in the article. Okunev, Karasuk and Andronivo ceramics were discovered in the Kyzul hai sve. Structures such as system of swells, marking and isolating inner space and the «wall» made of dry masonry of sandstone slabs [22] similar to the objects described in the mentioned sources were discovered on the First Sundu territory. Based on that as well as on the object`s chronology in accordance to the observations of Arkturus on the First Sunduk we came to the conclusion that the First Sunduk is the monument of Okunev and Andronovo cultures. We are also sure that should archeological excavations be conducted Okunev, Karasuk, Andronovo and Afanas`ev ceramics are found. Seraphim Stone was attributed to the Okunev culture because of two images placed in situ on the Stone that are certainly attributed to the Okunev culture. Judging by the Arcturus and Betelgeuse observation, we can attribute Seraphim Stone to the Okunev-Andronovo culture. The presence of the two atypical images that define astronomically significant directions and cannot be attributed to any other known culture of Khakassia allow us to assume that these images may have created by Andronovo culture bearers in Khakassia After studying the sves, A. I. Gotlib, D. A. Kirillova and M.A. Podol`skaya came to the conclusion that these building were the places of seasonal residence and periodical ritual actions, not of permanent residence. At the same time, a clear stratigraphy of cultural layers in the studied objects could not be detected. The researchers proved that monumental swell structures of sandstone slabs can be unambiguously attributed to the Okunev culture.

 

[MOESAN]

"Most physical anthropologists studying the prehistoric populations of Gorny Altai, too, believe that the key evolutionary factor was hybridization between Caucasoids and Mongoloids. However, human remains recently excavated in that territory suggest that at least in certain cases, intermediacy might have been caused by evolutionary conservatism, leading to unusual combinations of diagnostic traits. Thus, certain prehistoric cranial series from Gorny Altai are characterized by a broad face, equally flattened at the nasomalar and zygo-maxillary levels, convex nasal bones combined with a small nasal prominence angle, medium wide nasal aperture, and broad and low orbits. This combination, which is rather unusual since it cannot be described as either Caucasoid or Mongoloid, shows a remarkable persistence in Gorny Altai over several millennia"

"A unique artistic technique mastered by the ancient artists of Sikachi-Alyan is to place an image on the edge between the faces of a stone. "
https://scfh.ru/en/papers/a-new-reality-of-rock-art-/

Petroglyphs with images of the chariots: Altai (A), Tuva (B) and in Kazakhstan (In)
http://arheologija.ru/sotsialno-ekonomicheskie-protsessyi/

A boulder with three chariots in far western Tibet

==> looks like altai, tuva,Kazakhstan, and twestern tibets were chariot factory.

these descriptions of ONE of the phénotypes in ONE site cannot help too much concerning allover Scythians genesis which begun before IA I think and elsewhere (I recall some scientists showed there had been there in Pazyryk times a threefolds admixture with this special archaic types and fult europoids and fully mongoloid - newcomers these last ones -), spite interesting but not new -
on another side, when did these charriots pictures appeared, it would be of great weight concerning history ?

 

[johen]

on another side, when did these charriots pictures appeared, it would be of great weight concerning history ?

According to David Anthony, it happened during Andronovo.

 

[johen]

https://cogniarchae.wordpress.com/2016/11/06/the-great-riddle-of-a-seven-headed-figure/

definetely, R1a-z93 migrated to India from altai with sintashta or andronovo burial culture and great american culture rooted in the altai without EEF.

OKUNEVO people looks like having alphabet, compare 5000bc khakasia one, Brahmi alphabet, and okunevo inscription:
Is okunevo scripts related with PIE or not?

https://cogniarchae.wordpress.com/2016/11/06/the-great-riddle-of-a-seven-headed-figure/

https://tarihvearkeoloji.blogspot.ca/2015/10/turks-on-stones-turkish-inscriptions.html

 

[johen]

The khakasia one seems to be related with west asia. Maybe this Menorah symbol and jewish Hg Q?

Petroglyphs in Gobustan, Azerbaijan, dating back to 10,000 BC

 

[johen]

Viracocha, as the feathered serpent god, is one of the great mysteries of ancient American cultures. He was called Kukulkan by the Mayas, Quetzalcoatl by the Aztecs, Viracocha by the Incas, Gucumatz in central America, Votan in Palenque and Zamna in Izamal.

http://www.lost-civilizations.net/pre-inca-civilization.html

okunevo:

Assertion of a relationship between Votan and Odin is found in the work of the distinguished geographer, who wrote in Vues des Cordillères (1810):
We have fixed the special attention of our readers upon this Votan, or Wodan, an American who appears in the same family with the Wods or Odins of the Goths and of the people of Celtic origins. Since, according to the learned researches, Odin and Buddha are probably the same person, it is curious to see the names of Bondvar, Wodansdag, and Votan designating in India, Scandinavia, and in Mexico the day of a brief period.^[5]

Odin (du vieux norrois Óðinn) est le dieu principal de la mythologie nordique. Il existe dans la mythologie germanique en général, où il est appelé Wōden en vieil anglais, Wodan en vieux saxon des Pays-Bas ou Wotan en vieux haut-allemand ou Gaut. Son nom proto-germanique est *Wōdanaz. L'étymologie de son nom fait référence à Ód, et signifie « fureur », aux côtés d'« esprit » et de « poésie », d'où l'allemand Wut (fureur) et le néerlandais woede de même sens. C'est un dieu polymorphe.

 

[johen]

okunevo:

==> Sargat people were not caucasoid, not mongolid, but intermediate between caucasoid and mongolid (or plesiomorphic )like okunevo people and modern Ural people.

The third cluster includes Early Iron Agegroups of Western Siberia, Neolithic groups of the Altai,and Okunev people of Southern Siberia. Populationsmaking up the third cluster are quite special rather than intermediate. It is to this cluster that people buried on Bolshoy Oleniy Island are the closest.
--
the third cluster presents a difficult problem. Of course, marked similarities between groups widely separated in space such as Okunev, Sargat,Ust-Isha and Itkul, and Bolshoy Oleniy Island should not be taken to imply direct migrations from southwesternSiberia to circumpolar Eastern Europe or vice versa.
--
In our view, the results of the multivariate comparison, paradoxical as they appear, are not incidental. Rather than indicating direct affinities, membership of the third population cluster may reflect the retention of plesiomorphic cranial traits that were characteristic of an early stage of population differentiation in Eurasia. At least two supposedly plesiomorphic trait combinations peculiar to certain ancient populations of Siberia have been described. One characterizes the Okunev people of Southern Siberia

Situated in eastern Scythia just north of Sogdiana, the kurgan contained a skeleton, warrior's equipment, and assorted funerary goods, including 4,000 gold ornaments. Although the sex of the skeleton is uncertain, it may have been an 18-year-old Saka (Scythian) prince or princess.

okunevo:

http://siberiantimes.com/science/ca...500-years-old-with-links-to-native-americans/

 

[johen]

On the Sources of the Scythic Animal Style
by YA Sher (1988)
http://www.jstor.org/stable/40316167?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Abstracts
In the mid-first B.C. a common pastrol-nomadic culture dispersed over the Eurasian steppe, from Hungary to china and siberia. Carried largely by Iranian peoples, it was distinguished by a "Scythic triad" of characteristic horse gear, weaponry, and art in the famous "animal style." The precise nature and developmental history of this art remain controversial despite much research. Many have stressed antecedents at Ziwiye in Iran while some find sources in China's Western chou culture. Since 1980, the precedence of Arzhan on the uppermpst Yenisey has become evident. A developmental chain from OKUNEVO to karasuk and Tagar(scythian) can be traced for 1000years.

Conclusion:

To summarize, it is possible to state that the truly primary source of the “animal style” are revealed in the stylistic pecurities of the depictions in the OKUNEVO culture.
----
In the black sea, there was formed, on this basis, the special scytho-greek art which evidently transmitted the same subject matter but with richer means, from the standpoint of classical cultures. Many reflections of the “animal styles” can be observed in the arts of Hunno-sarmatian tribes, in Celto-Germanic culture, in Viking culture, and in ancient Rusiian Arts.

I think it is not an art of animal style, but religion of shamanism, because they would be totem Animals, of which powerful spirit protect human beings.

 

[johen]

Heracle slaying Hydra

http://cogniarchae.com/2016/11/06/the-great-riddle-of-a-seven-headed-figure/

slavic tradition:

https://www.boredpanda.com/slavic-wreaths-polish-folklore-ula-koska-beata-bojda/

okunevo also 7 and bindi (or third eye):

http://toururu.com/khakassia/

 

[johen]

http://www.lost-civilizations.net/pre-inca-civilization.html

okunevo:

Minoan:

But even the most peaceful culture can have brutal practices. At the significant Minoan settlement of Knossos, there is evidence of child sacrifice and cannibalism. Religious paintings (important, since we can’t decipher the writing) depict religious ceremonies, including human sacrifices offered to the gods on altars. When one Minoan home was excavated, archaeologists found a mass sacrificial burial of children. Their flesh had been stripped away, perhaps due to cannibalism. Other evidence points to the existence of crisis cults that sprung up when the society began to crumble. These cults may have intensified the normal ritual behavior (which probably involved infrequent sacrifices) and performed more and more human sacrifices as an anxiety-ridden response to major disasters.

https://listverse.com/2014/01/18/10-horrifying-archaeological-findings-of-human-sacrifice/

China Bronze:

looks like not mongoloids?

The largest of these cities was Shimao. Founded about 4,300 years ago, Shimao was only inhabited for 300 years. In the ruins of this ancient stone town, archaeologists made a grisly discovery of over 80 human skulls—with no bodies in sight. The skulls were all of young women who died around 4,000 years ago. Further examination of the skulls showed evidence of violent deaths involving blunt objects and fire. As to why so many young women were beheaded and buried in a mass grave, researchers believe that the girls were probably from enemy groups and sacrificed as part of ceremonies to mark the founding of the city.

https://listverse.com/2014/01/18/10-horrifying-archaeological-findings-of-human-sacrifice/



where is their body? Maybe here (shang dynasty 1,600bc):

Methods of killing Human Sacrifice in Shang-dynasty Oracle-bone Inscriptions
Wang ping

Abstract
Records on human sacrifice have been revealed by the oracle-bone inscriptions of Shang Dynasty. Human sacrifices carry special symbolic significance in Shang Dynasty for worshipping spirits. Different methods of killing were used in worship rituals. As the inscription reveals, some words are used as the methods of killing of human beings in general. In the meantime, some special characters are used to refer to specific killing methods through analysis of the characters and structures of the language. The lecture will focus on 12 different methods of killing human sacrifice. The methods include beheading, splitting the body into halves, dismembering bodies, beating to death, chopping to death, extracting blood, burying alive, drowning, burning to death, boiling, corpse displaying, exposing body part to hot sun. With the analysis of the different methods of human sacrifice, it is easy to conclude that human sacrifice was a very common religious practice in Shang dynasty. These practices reflect the cruelty of the rulers to their subjects and their piety towards the spirits they worship.

http://www.ancient-encounters.com/AESE/Discovery.html

===> my question is whether those cultures are related with neolithic farmer.

P.s

1. This kind of east Eurasia nomadic culture was well kept in Japan, I think

Nanking Massacre in china:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

2. I think culture is resilient like trap, which it is really difficult of human to get out of, if they fall:

The sacrifice of Polyxena by the triumphant Greeks, Trojan War, c. 570-550 BCE

a continuation of human sacrifice in south-west China into the Western (also Former) Han Dynasty (206BCE-25CE). Already five centuries have passed since the teachings of Kong Fuzi made human sacrifice obsolete, and several centuries have elapsed without any notable evidence of human sacrifice at the state level. Confucianism, a socio-political philosophy based on etiquette, ritual know-how, and learning made human sacrifice obsolete, as the state no longer needed blood sacrifice to impose political authority and social cohesion. Animal sacrifice, however, continued as an important imperial ritual until the collapse of imperial China in 1911.

Kong Fuzi is Zhou dynasty people. Zhou dyansty might be related with hg Q:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33257-upside-down-pyramids

3. But is the cannibalism more resilient?

The documents, prepared by local government offices in the 1980's, two decades after the events they describe, seem to offer a meticulous record of how Red Guards and Communist officials in one province not only tortured their victims to death but also ate their flesh. Copies of the documents have been smuggled out of China by Zheng Yi, a prominent writer wanted by the Chinese authorities for his work for the democracy movement at Tiananmen Square in 1989. After three and a half years as a fugitive, Mr. Zheng is to arrive in New York on Wednesday. Some Ugly Details At some high schools, students killed their principals in the school courtyard and then cooked and ate the bodies to celebrate a triumph over "counterrevolutionaries," the documents report. Government-run cafeterias are said to have displayed bodies dangling on meat hooks and to have served human flesh to employees. "There are many varieties of cannibalism," declares one report, "and among them are these: killing someone and making a late dinner of it, slicing off the meat and having a big party, dividing up the flesh so each person takes a large chunk home to boil, roasting the liver and eating it for its medicinal properties, and so on." The documents suggest that at least 137 people, and probably hundreds more, were eaten in Guangxi Province in southern China in the late 1960's. In most cases, many people ate the flesh of one corpse, so the number of cannibals may have numbered in the thousands. Found Only in One Province

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/06/world/a-tale-of-red-guards-and-cannibals.html

4. ancient greeks really look like this one. prominent chin

 

[johen]

Afanasievo: Without a trail?
"The question that persists is thus; where is the Afanasievo trail from Yamanaya through to the Urals and their final archaeological seat in South Siberia? Why have none of the Baraba forest-steppe cultures shown any indication of influence, be it cultural or anthropological, of Caucasoid pastoral nomads before those of Andronovo?"
http://vaedhya.blogspot.ca/2012/07/secrets-of-central-asia-chapter-ii.html

-Frachetti's Pastoralist Landscapes and Social Interaction in Bronze Age Eurasia clarifies the material culture and mode of living in Central Asia during the Bronze Age;



and

Molodin VI, Pilipenko AS, Romaschenko AG, Zhuravlev AA, Trapezov RO. Human migrations in the southern region of the West Siberian Plain during the Bronze Age: Archaeological, palaeogenetic and anthropological data. 2012.

Bunak's northern eurasian anthroplogical formation of intermediate people continued? maybe until scythian and....