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Thread: Basal Eurasians

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    Basal Eurasians

    Do all Basal Eurasians have a bit of SSA in them?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Since no one has ever found anything like a pure Basal Eurasian sample, nobody knows.

    That said, there is no evidence from the ancient Middle Eastern genomes that Basal Eurasian and SSA share any post-Out of Africa ancestry.

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    So would a European who scores Natufian but no SSA on the Eurasia K6 but then has 1.58 SSA on the Gedrosia K3 be Basal Eurasian SSA which all modern Europeans have? Or is it Out of Africa? It's not Modern SSA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Since no one has ever found anything like a pure Basal Eurasian sample, nobody knows.

    That said, there is no evidence from the ancient Middle Eastern genomes that Basal Eurasian and SSA share any post-Out of Africa ancestry.
    Somebody told me that all Europeans have a small % of Out of Africa SSA. Is that correct? Since we all came from there. For some reason on the Gedrosia K3, OoA SSA doesn't show up for all Europeans like it should. I wonder why.

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    • "Craniometric analyses have suggested that the Natufians may have migrated from north or sub-Saharan Africa, a result that finds some support from Y chromosome analysis which shows that the Natufians and successor Levantine Neolithic populations carried haplogroup E, of likely ultimate African origin, which has not been detected in other ancient males from West Eurasia (Supplementary Information, section 6). However, no affinity of Natufians to sub-Saharan Africans is evident in our genome-wide analysis, as present-day sub-Saharan Africans do not share more alleles with Natufians than with other ancient Eurasians (Extended Data Table 1)."



    Ancient Populations:

    THIS IMAGE HAS BEEN COMPRESSED. CLICK TO VIEW THE FULL-SIZE VERSION.


    Modern Populations:

    THIS IMAGE HAS BEEN COMPRESSED. CLICK TO VIEW THE FULL-SIZE VERSION.


    Basal Eurasian Ancestry:

    THIS IMAGE HAS BEEN COMPRESSED. CLICK TO VIEW THE FULL-SIZE VERSION.


    Iran_N + Levant_N + WHG + EHG Admixture:



    Admixture in South Asians:



    Link:

    http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311

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    Natufians may have sometype of Sub Saharan African ancestry that somehow isn't closely related to modern Sub Saharan Africans. Or they could have had an unknown very Basal form of Eurasian ancestry. They are closely related to Neolithic Anatolians but there's something different about them.

    Their mtDNA results so far are...
    J2a2, N1b
    Y DNA results so far....
    E1b1b1b2(M123?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Natufians may have sometype of Sub Saharan African ancestry that somehow isn't closely related to modern Sub Saharan Africans. Or they could have had an unknown very Basal form of Eurasian ancestry. They are closely related to Neolithic Anatolians but there's something different about them.

    Their mtDNA results so far are...
    J2a2, N1b
    Y DNA results so far....
    E1b1b1b2(M123?)
    My question still remains.

    1. Do all modern day Europeans have some degree of Basal SSA admixture from Out of Africa via Natufians? If so, why doesn't it show up on the Gedrosia K3 for some but does for others?

    2. Is it Modern Day SSA admixture?

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    Modern Europeans have Basal Eurasian ancestry. I don't know if it has SSA. No one knows if any Basal Eurasian contains SSA. SSA in Basal Eurasian is just a hypothesis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Modern Europeans have Basal Eurasian ancestry. I don't know if it has SSA. No one knows if any Basal Eurasian contains SSA. SSA in Basal Eurasian is just a hypothesis.
    I'm pretty sure it's been proven that Basal Eurasian has SSA due to it coming out on calculators for some people. It's hidden in Natufian but it still comes out at lower K. It's OoA stuff so everyone can be modeled with it so I've been told.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorehound View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's been proven that Basal Eurasian has SSA due to it coming out on calculators for some people. It's hidden in Natufian but it still comes out at lower K. It's OoA stuff so everyone can be modeled with it so I've been told.
    I suppose that question will be resolved as soon as we have a better idea about pre-modern population structure in Africa.

    What's the currently held as the best representative of 'SSA'? The Nigerian highland populations? Or is the SSA component in these calculators a synthesis of several populations?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I wouldn't get too fixated on what some of these calculators say about SSA percentages, especially the ones based on modern populations. According to the Dodecad one, out of Otzi, Gok and the European hunter-gatherers, the h-g have the most SSA.

    If you want to know how much SSA you have as an individual, use 23andme. For that as well as for Ashkenazi ancestry they get it right. For the latter, totally ignore the Eurogenes so called J-Test. I certainly hope it's not still up at gedmatch. It's absolutely wrong and unreliable.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Basal Eurasian admixture might have more affinity to Sub Saharan genome than other West Eurasian genetic components.
    It's not necessary means admixture with modern West Africans rather this component was one of the main DNA characteristic carried by the first Eurasians that left Africa. Most components such as the WHG, CHG, EHG etc. are all related and had a common ancestor thousands of years ago way before after the first Eurasians left Africa.

    It's interesting to see the Iran Neolithic component has the highest share with Basal Eurasian if we consider it's also a dominant component across South-Central Asia so this may also have higher affinity towards East/Central Eurasia or even Australasia.

    On Lower admixture tests like K3 all West Eurasians carry small amounts of Australasian like genetic components which might have something to do with Basal Eurasians as Armenians for instance have no Australian ancestry but share some alleles through the Iran Neolithic genome which has some genetic relatedness to India.


    Iran Neolithic peaks in West Central Asia and notice those regions have around 10-20% Australasian admixture


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanp View Post
    Basal Eurasian admixture might have more affinity to Sub Saharan genome than other West Eurasian genetic components.
    It's not necessary means admixture with modern West Africans rather this component was one of the main DNA characteristic carried by the first Eurasians that left Africa. Most components such as the WHG, CHG, EHG etc. are all related and had a common ancestor thousands of years ago way before after the first Eurasians left Africa.

    It's interesting to see the Iran Neolithic component has the highest share with Basal Eurasian if we consider it's also a dominant component across South-Central Asia so this may also have higher affinity towards East/Central Eurasia or even Australasia.

    On Lower admixture tests like K3 all West Eurasians carry small amounts of Australasian like genetic components which might have something to do with Basal Eurasians as Armenians for instance have no Australian ancestry but share some alleles through the Iran Neolithic genome which has some genetic relatedness to India.


    Iran Neolithic peaks in West Central Asia and notice those regions have around 10-20% Australasian admixture
    Is the graphic based on Lazaridis' global admixture run?

    The 'Papuan' cline in Asia, reaching even Eastern Europe is highly interesting. This is very speculative, but it'd blow my mind if Hotu III and his relatives turned out to be a kind of hybrid of Basal Eurasian and a Central- or South Asian population. Iran_Neo seems to have unambiguous South Asian affinity, at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    The 'Papuan' cline in Asia, reaching even Eastern Europe is highly interesting.
    This Australoid-like ancestry was present in Europe already >40,000 years ago (Oase-1 from Romania).

    I uploaded to GEDmatch Oase-1 (kit T732095) and Australian Aboriginal (kit Z905945). Let's compare:

    Gedrosia K6 calculator:


    1) Oase1 Romania 41,640-37,580 ybp:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 28.53
    2 East_Asian 18.24
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 16.79
    4 Natufian 15.61
    5 Sub_Saharan 11.06
    6 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 9.77

    2) Native Australian 1850-1900 AD:


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 90.27
    2 East_Asian 5.69
    3 Sub_Saharan 3.24
    4 Natufian 0.42
    5 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 0.39

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Onge 8.46
    2 Australian 11.34
    3 Andamanese 11.34
    4 Papuan 11.34
    5 Paniyas 50
    6 Palliyar 55.51
    7 Kharia 59.47
    8 Bengali 71.01
    9 Punjabi_PJL 73.41
    10 GujaratiD 75.01
    11 GujaratiC 76.65
    12 GoyetQ116 81.42
    13 GujaratiB 82.13
    14 GujaratiA 83.5
    15 Punjabi 85.48
    16 Burusho 86.43
    17 Sindhi 86.64
    18 Kusunda 89.35
    19 Pathan 89.43
    20 Kalash 90.08

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 90.9% Andamanese + 9.1% Altaian @ 3.77
    2 90.9% Australian + 9.1% Altaian @ 3.77
    3 90.9% Papuan + 9.1% Altaian @ 3.77
    4 90.7% Andamanese + 9.3% Kyrgyz @ 3.78
    5 90.7% Australian + 9.3% Kyrgyz @ 3.78
    6 90.7% Papuan + 9.3% Kyrgyz @ 3.78
    7 91.3% Andamanese + 8.7% Kalmyk @ 3.84
    8 91.3% Australian + 8.7% Kalmyk @ 3.84
    9 91.3% Papuan + 8.7% Kalmyk @ 3.84
    10 89.4% Andamanese + 10.6% Kusunda @ 3.97
    11 89.4% Australian + 10.6% Kusunda @ 3.97
    12 89.4% Papuan + 10.6% Kusunda @ 3.97
    13 90.3% Andamanese + 9.7% Sherpa @ 4.02
    14 90.3% Australian + 9.7% Sherpa @ 4.02
    15 90.3% Papuan + 9.7% Sherpa @ 4.02
    16 91.6% Andamanese + 8.4% Eskimo @ 4.12
    17 91.6% Australian + 8.4% Eskimo @ 4.12
    18 91.6% Papuan + 8.4% Eskimo @ 4.12
    19 90.5% Andamanese + 9.5% Cambodian @ 4.12
    20 90.5% Australian + 9.5% Cambodian @ 4.12

    3) Tomenable:


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 43.79
    2 Natufian 34.21
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 20.69
    4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1
    5 East_Asian 0.31

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    MDLP K23b calculator:

    1) Oase1 Romania 41,640-37,580 ybp:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 South_Indian 22.92
    2 European_Early_Farmers 12.52
    3 Austronesian 11.88
    4 Subsaharian 9.73
    5 South_Central_Asian 8.73
    6 Melano_Polynesian 7.48
    7 Australoid 6.62
    8 Paleo_Siberian 4.32
    9 African_Pygmy 4.22
    10 Archaic_African 3.69
    11 European_Hunters_Gatherers 3.42
    12 North_African 2.15
    13 Khoisan 1.39
    14 Ancestral_Altaic 0.74
    15 Archaic_Human 0.19

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Ayta_AE ( ) 28.13
    2 Kensiu ( ) 34.58
    3 Mamanawa ( ) 34.92
    4 Nepalese ( ) 35.11
    5 Tamil_Singapore ( ) 37.3
    6 Ati ( ) 38.9
    7 Jatt_Haryana ( ) 38.99
    8 Hindi ( ) 39
    9 Jatt_Muslim ( ) 39.17
    10 Cochin_Jew ( ) 39.26
    11 Tiwari ( ) 39.54
    12 Marathi ( ) 39.9
    13 Agta_AG ( ) 40.02
    14 Uygur-Han ( ) 40.03
    15 Jehai ( ) 40.05
    16 Burusho ( ) 40.24
    17 GujaratiA_GIH ( ) 40.32
    18 Pahari ( ) 40.46
    19 Aeta ( ) 40.88
    20 Agta ( ) 41.17

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 50.2% Onge ( ) + 49.8% Puerto_Rican ( ) @ 20.75
    2 76% Ayta_AE ( ) + 24% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS ( ) @ 20.81
    3 78.4% Ayta_AE ( ) + 21.6% Basque_French ( ) @ 20.94
    4 78.2% Ayta_AE ( ) + 21.8% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 20.99
    5 66.3% Ayta_AE ( ) + 33.7% Puerto_Rican ( ) @ 21.09
    6 74.8% Ayta_AE ( ) + 25.2% French_South ( ) @ 21.2
    7 74.3% Ayta_AE ( ) + 25.7% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 21.46
    8 74.4% Ayta_AE ( ) + 25.6% Spanish_Aragon_IBS ( ) @ 21.47
    9 74.6% Ayta_AE ( ) + 25.4% Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS ( ) @ 21.63
    10 57.2% Tamil_Singapore ( ) + 42.8% Australian_ECCAC ( ) @ 21.67
    11 74.8% Ayta_AE ( ) + 25.2% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 21.77
    12 54.5% Tamil_Singapore ( ) + 45.5% Puerto_Rican ( ) @ 21.78
    13 73.7% Ayta_AE ( ) + 26.3% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 21.79
    14 72.5% Ayta_AE ( ) + 27.5% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 21.8
    15 69.4% Ayta_AE ( ) + 30.6% Orcadian ( ) @ 21.81
    16 73.6% Ayta_AE ( ) + 26.4% Spanish_Galicia_IBS ( ) @ 21.83
    17 74.7% Ayta_AE ( ) + 25.3% Spanish_Andalucia_IBS ( ) @ 21.84
    18 73.6% Ayta_AE ( ) + 26.4% Spanish_Extremadura_IBS ( ) @ 21.87
    19 74.3% Ayta_AE ( ) + 25.7% Spanish_Murcia_IBS ( ) @ 21.91
    20 69.6% Ayta_AE ( ) + 30.4% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 21.94

    2) Native Australian 1850-1900 AD:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Australoid 51.38
    2 Melano_Polynesian 39.18
    3 South_Indian 4.35
    4 South_East_Asian 2.58
    5 Archaic_Human 1.86
    6 Archaic_African 0.65

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Australian ( ) 4.6
    2 Australian_ECCAC ( ) 25.13
    3 Alorese ( ) 41.71
    4 Lembata ( ) 50.3
    5 Lamaholt ( ) 51.8
    6 Manggarai ( ) 59.37
    7 Ayta_AE ( ) 60.25
    8 Naasioi ( ) 61.45
    9 Mamanawa ( ) 65.33
    10 Kambera ( ) 65.4
    11 Papuan ( ) 65.96
    12 Ati ( ) 67.43
    13 Kosipe ( ) 67.58
    14 Koinanbe ( ) 67.63
    15 Agta_AG ( ) 70.14
    16 Tongan ( ) 71.09
    17 Aeta ( ) 73.45
    18 Agta ( ) 73.54
    19 Saami ( ) 74.27
    20 Kensiu ( ) 74.82

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% Paniya ( ) @ 3.65
    2 96.7% Australian ( ) + 3.3% Onge ( ) @ 3.68
    3 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% Malayan ( ) @ 3.69
    4 97.6% Australian ( ) + 2.4% Pulliyar ( ) @ 3.69
    5 97.4% Australian ( ) + 2.6% Santhal ( ) @ 3.69
    6 97.4% Australian ( ) + 2.6% Nihali ( ) @ 3.7
    7 97.4% Australian ( ) + 2.6% Dhurwa ( ) @ 3.71
    8 97.4% Australian ( ) + 2.6% Bhunjia ( ) @ 3.72
    9 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% TN_Dalit ( ) @ 3.73
    10 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% Hallaki ( ) @ 3.73
    11 97.4% Australian ( ) + 2.6% Kurumba ( ) @ 3.73
    12 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% Madiga ( ) @ 3.73
    13 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% Mala ( ) @ 3.74
    14 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% Chamar ( ) @ 3.75
    15 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% Hakkipikki ( ) @ 3.75
    16 97.4% Australian ( ) + 2.6% Kharia ( ) @ 3.75
    17 97.5% Australian ( ) + 2.5% Sakilli ( ) @ 3.76
    18 96.2% Australian ( ) + 3.8% Papuan ( ) @ 3.78
    19 96.3% Australian ( ) + 3.7% Koinanbe ( ) @ 3.78
    20 96.3% Australian ( ) + 3.7% Kosipe ( ) @ 3.78

    3) Tomenable:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 47.38
    2 Caucasian 29.21
    3 European_Early_Farmers 13.47
    4 Ancestral_Altaic 4.28
    5 South_Central_Asian 2.98
    6 Near_East 1.23
    7 Archaic_African 0.35
    8 Australoid 0.34
    9 Archaic_Human 0.25
    10 Khoisan 0.25
    11 East_African 0.18
    12 Arctic 0.08
    13 North_African 0.02

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Slovak ( ) 3.4
    2 Ukrainian_West ( ) 3.68
    3 Kashub ( ) 4.18
    4 Czech ( ) 4.4
    5 Sorb ( ) 4.93
    6 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 5.05
    7 Hungarian ( ) 5.99
    8 Slovenian ( ) 6.08
    9 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 6.26
    10 Belarusian_West ( ) 6.6
    11 Ukrainian_East ( ) 6.74
    12 Belarusian-East ( ) 6.76
    13 Russian_South ( ) 7.55
    14 Russian-West ( ) 7.78
    15 Bosnian ( ) 8.01
    16 Croat_BH ( ) 8.09
    17 Ukrainian ( ) 8.11
    18 Russian_North ( ) 8.32
    19 Croat ( ) 8.44
    20 Don_cossack ( ) 8.51

  16. #16
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    But Oase population got extinct and did not contribute substantially to modern Europeans.

    So maybe this Papuan-like or ASE admixture in modern Europe is from another source.

    Also, Oase-1 looks like a mixture of everything. He lived before modern clusters emerged.

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    Could you expand on that please as I am J2a2 mtDNA, I'm from England. Thanks

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    Probably the best candidate for Basal Eurasians are the "Bedouin B" as they are called in genomics papers; they are a subgroup of Negev Bedouin from southern Israel. Aside from them the Mahra people of Yemen are also a good candidate. In both cases, it is actually easy to distinguish an Arabian-specific component from anything African. Add to that the fact that there is observable phenotypical distance between Arabians and other West Asians who have more Caucasian admixture.

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