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Thread: To everyone who claims that Malta Boy was "Mongoloid"

  1. #1
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    To everyone who claims that Malta Boy was "Mongoloid"

    This thread is decicated to all people who claim that ANE admixture is "Mongoloid".

    Malta Boy is on GEDmatch - kit number F999914.

    Malta Boy in Dodecad V3 calculator = 84% Caucasoid:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European 37.68
    2 South_Asian 26.04
    3 East_European 20.03

    4 Northeast_Asian 15.53
    5 Neo_African 0.38
    6 Palaeo_African 0.34

    Malta Boy in Gedrosia K3 calculator = 70% Caucasoid:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 W_Eurasian 69.88
    2 E_Eurasian 30.12

    Malta Boy in Eurogenes K15 calculator = 0% East Asian:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Eastern_Euro 38.02
    2 South_Asian 20.31
    3 Amerindian 18.62
    4 North_Sea 15.91
    5 Baltic 6.54
    6 Sub-Saharan 0.47
    7 Oceanian 0.12

    Malta Boy in Gedrosia K6 = 94% ANE, 2% East Asian, 2% WHG, 2% ASE:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 94.13
    2 East_Asian 2.01
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 1.93
    4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.78
    5 Sub_Saharan 0.09
    6 Natufian 0.06

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 AG2 6.76
    2 AG3 6.76
    3 MA1 6.76
    =========
    4 EHG 24.08

    5 GujaratiB 62.91
    6 Punjabi 63.18
    7 CHG 64
    8 GujaratiA 64.19
    9 Kalash 64.27
    10 Sindhi 64.28
    11 Pathan 64.43
    12 Kurd_SE 65.3
    13 Burusho 65.56
    14 Balochi 65.81
    15 Steppe_EMBA 66.02
    16 GujaratiC 66.15
    17 Brahui 66.21
    18 GujaratiD 66.47
    19 Punjabi_PJL 67.62
    20 Makrani 67.68

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 93.5% MA1 + 6.5% GoyetQ116 @ 1.92
    2 93.5% AG2 + 6.5% GoyetQ116 @ 1.92
    3 93.5% AG3 + 6.5% GoyetQ116 @ 1.92
    4 93.4% AG2 + 6.6% Kharia @ 2.14
    5 93.4% AG3 + 6.6% Kharia @ 2.14
    6 93.4% MA1 + 6.6% Kharia @ 2.14
    7 92% MA1 + 8% Bengali @ 2.54
    8 92% AG2 + 8% Bengali @ 2.54
    9 92% AG3 + 8% Bengali @ 2.54
    10 92.8% AG2 + 7.2% Palliyar @ 2.55
    11 92.8% AG3 + 7.2% Palliyar @ 2.55
    12 92.8% MA1 + 7.2% Palliyar @ 2.55
    13 93.1% AG2 + 6.9% Uzbek @ 2.57
    14 93.1% AG3 + 6.9% Uzbek @ 2.57
    15 93.1% MA1 + 6.9% Uzbek @ 2.57
    16 92.1% AG2 + 7.9% Steppe_IA @ 2.58
    17 92.1% AG3 + 7.9% Steppe_IA @ 2.58
    18 92.1% MA1 + 7.9% Steppe_IA @ 2.58
    19 93.2% AG2 + 6.8% Paniyas @ 2.64
    20 93.2% AG3 + 6.8% Paniyas @ 2.64

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    What a complete and utter straw man argument. To my knowledge, no one here claims that Mal'ta boy was "Mongoloid". What was claimed by Russian anthropologists and what is probably true, in my opinion, and not just in my opinion, is that there was East Eurasian intrusion westward and Mal'ta boy has some ancestry from them, as even using these calculators shows.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  3. #3
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Since we don't have his skull, we can only speculate. I'd think he didn't yet developed in either direction, much like the Sungir individuals or Kostenki.

    Let's do the Sungir skulls, who are a few thousand years older than Mal'ta and situated near Moscow:

    Male, 60-year-old



    Adult woman



    Boy, 13-year-old



    Girl, 8-year-old



    They don't resemble the Caucasoid morphology in the Near East and Europe very closely, imho.

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    He does have a lot of American and Beringian, though I'm not sure if any of these back then were involved in Mongoloid characteristics. Probably not. He completely misses SE Asian, NE Asian and Siberian admixtures being known to carry these from way back. Though, he might not look like a typical modern European either.

    F999914 R
    Mal'ta 24kya
    Run time 8
    S-Indian 10.13
    Baloch 24.09
    Caucasian -
    NE-Euro 40.14
    SE-Asian -
    Siberian -
    NE-Asian -
    Papuan 0.7
    American 17.71
    Beringian 6.74
    Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian -
    San 0.3
    E-African -
    Pygmy 0.19
    W-African -
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Malta split from R 28.2 ka.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R/
    R lived north of the Hindu Kush, not in Siberia.
    Haplo Q lived in Siberia, like AF2 (17 ka)
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L472/
    Malta mingled amongst them.
    The Malta branch got extinct.

    Mongoloid traits started to devellop in Siberia, Mongolia & N. China 30 ka.

  6. #6
    MarkoZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Malta split from R 28.2 ka.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R/
    R lived north of the Hindu Kush, not in Siberia.
    Haplo Q lived in Siberia, like AF2 (17 ka)
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L472/
    Malta mingled amongst them.
    The Malta branch got extinct.

    Mongoloid traits started to devellop in Siberia, Mongolia & N. China 30 ka.
    Something like this seems to be the best explanation at the time. I'm curious though: what makes you think that it's the Hindu Kush mountains where R lived? That's very specific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    Since we don't have his skull, we can only speculate. I'd think he didn't yet developed in either direction, much like the Sungir individuals or Kostenki.

    Let's do the Sungir skulls, who are a few thousand years older than Mal'ta and situated near Moscow:

    Male, 60-year-old



    Adult woman



    Boy, 13-year-old



    Girl, 8-year-old



    They don't resemble the Caucasoid morphology in the Near East and Europe very closely, imho.
    I prefer to look at skulls than to reconstructions - here the 4 ones show some disparity between them -
    and typical 'eurasian' and 'eastasian' types are the result of the latter evolutions, the "cardinal" features of every type are not always totally found in every individual but in a majority of them only; some archaic common ancient hum

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    He does have a lot of American and Beringian, though I'm not sure if any of these back then were involved in Mongoloid characteristics.
    Native Americans were "triracial" to begin with, Mongoloid (Han) + ANE (MA1) + Negrito/Australoid (Onge).

    All those groups mixed in Beringia (see the "Beringian Standstill" hypothesis), producing Paleo-Americans:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...134#post188134




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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I. Native American mtDNA includes:

    1) Typically East Asian mtDNA:

    A2
    B2
    D1
    D2a
    D3
    D4h3a
    D4e1c

    2) West Eurasian mtDNA:

    X2a
    X2g

    3) Either ANE or East Asian:

    C1b
    C1c
    C1d
    C4c

    II. Native American Y-DNA includes:

    Q1a2a1-L54
    Q1a1a-F746
    C2b1a1a-P39

    These could be from any group, not just from East Asians. Haplogroup Q1a could be from ANE.

    Y-DNA haplogroup C2b1a1b-F3985 - very closely related to Native American C2b1a1a-P39 - can be found among modern Europeans (samples from Germany, Slovakia, Austria, Czech Republic and Poland). It might be Solutrean.

    As we already know, there used to be a lot of C1a2 and C1b in Upper Paleolithic Europe.

    C1b is also typical for Australian Aborigines. Maybe C2b was from Onge-like admixture.

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    Negrito/Australoid = ASE (Ancestral South Eurasian) in Gedrosia K6.

    Australians/Papuans score over 90% ASE, and Negritos score it as well:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post495473

    So Native Americans are a mixture of East Asian (Han) + ANE + ASE.

    This seems to be supported by GEDmatch results of Native Americans:

    Gedrosia K6 calculator:


    NA42 Peru (Chachapoya) 1000-1500 AD:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 72.22
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.62
    3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 9.16


    MARC1492 Mi'kmaq 1550-1700 AD:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 62.05
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 26.07
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 5.36
    4 Natufian 3.6
    5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 2.6
    6 Sub_Saharan 0.33


    Paleo-Eskimo Saqqaq ca. 2000 BC:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 76.08
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 10.91
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 6.09
    4 Sub_Saharan 3.06
    5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 2.66
    6 Natufian 1.2


    Clovis Anzick-1 Montana 10700-10550 BC:


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 60.7
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 23.77
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 8.54
    4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 5.84
    5 Sub_Saharan 1.16


    Kennewick Man USA 7000-6900 BC:


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 58.83
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 20.52
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 11.66
    4 Natufian 3.23
    5 Sub_Saharan 3.08
    6 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 2.68

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    Something like this seems to be the best explanation at the time. I'm curious though: what makes you think that it's the Hindu Kush mountains where R lived? That's very specific.
    I admit, it is a guess of mine.
    But it is a possibility.

    I noticed there was R1b in SW Asia (R1b-V88 but also other, but no R1b-P297) and there was R1b in Eastern Europe, mainly R1b-P297
    The oldes East European R1b is EHG admixed with some WHG, but no CHG, that came later, as demonstrated in the latest paper.
    The R1b in SW Asia was very heavy on CHG.
    So there were 2 kinds of R1b in 2 different areas.
    They must have had a common origin from where they split.

    This is a theory I came up with, a few weeks ago, and for which I found some confirmation in the new paper :

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post500965

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post

    II. Native American Y-DNA includes:

    Q1a2a1-L54
    Q1a1a-F746
    C2b1a1a-P39
    Q1a2a1-L54 : 2 clades are Native American indeed : M3 & Z780
    C2b1a1a-P39 Native American, related to Na-Dene
    but
    Q1a1a-F746 is it Native American or is it Inuit/Eskimo?

    C1 and C2 split 47 ka, no relation at all between both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Y-DNA haplogroup C2b1a1b-F3985 - very closely related to Native American C2b1a1a-P39 - can be found among modern Europeans (samples from Germany, Slovakia, Austria, Czech Republic and Poland). It might be Solutrean.
    There are Manchus and Altaians in the same C2b-F1756 clade as C2b-F3985. Meanwhile Koryaks in Kamchatka have C2b-B77 which is at least as closely related to C2b-P39 as C2b-F1756 is, if not closer. C2b is both abundant and diverse in Northeast Asia.

    Rare this and that is always showing up in Europe just because it is so well tested. That can give the illusion that it is the source rather than the recipient, but in this case the latter is far more likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Negrito/Australoid = ASE (Ancestral South Eurasian) in Gedrosia K6.

    Australians/Papuans score over 90% ASE, and Negritos score it as well:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post495473

    So Native Americans are a mixture of East Asian (Han) + ANE + ASE.

    This seems to be supported by GEDmatch results of Native Americans:

    Gedrosia K6 calculator:


    NA42 Peru (Chachapoya) 1000-1500 AD:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 72.22
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.62
    3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 9.16


    MARC1492 Mi'kmaq 1550-1700 AD:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 62.05
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 26.07
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 5.36
    4 Natufian 3.6
    5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 2.6
    6 Sub_Saharan 0.33


    Paleo-Eskimo Saqqaq ca. 2000 BC:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 76.08
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 10.91
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 6.09
    4 Sub_Saharan 3.06
    5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 2.66
    6 Natufian 1.2


    Clovis Anzick-1 Montana 10700-10550 BC:


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 60.7
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 23.77
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 8.54
    4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 5.84
    5 Sub_Saharan 1.16


    Kennewick Man USA 7000-6900 BC:


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 58.83
    2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 20.52
    3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 11.66
    4 Natufian 3.23
    5 Sub_Saharan 3.08
    6 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 2.68
    I wonder what would occur if today Western European pops were tested with this calculator???
    phonetypically speaking the ASE (ancestral) appers or appeared in some rare and tiny pops of the Amazone, but a light % of auDNA cannot be seen everytime in phenotype, it's true (1- too tiny - 2 - phenotype itypical nnovations not already appeared in ancestral "giving" pop -
    my believings were these DNA influence could have come later by sea, but Amazone is not too close to Pacific Ocean! or it has been erased in less remote region by north coming Amerindian pops???
    plus: I don' know what status to give to light auDNA %s of "archaic" pops in us modern people? but over 2,5%/3% it takes maybe some sense...

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I wonder what would occur if today Western European pops were tested with this calculator?
    Some examples:

    North-Western Europeans:


    Modern Scottish:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 44.13
    2 Natufian 32.90
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 20.78
    4 East_Asian 1.23


    Modern Scottish:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 43.12
    2 Natufian 34.23
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.99
    4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.94
    5 East_Asian 1.73


    Modern North Dutch:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 44.75
    2 Natufian 35.9
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.07
    4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.15
    5 Sub_Saharan 0.14


    Modern English:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 42.61
    2 Natufian 36.62
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 17.84
    4 East_Asian 1.41
    5 Sub_Saharan 1.14
    6 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.38


    Modern Swedish:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 46.24
    2 Natufian 33.38
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.13
    4 East_Asian 2.25


    Modern Irish:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 43.1
    2 Natufian 33.58
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 20.8
    4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.72
    5 East_Asian 0.8


    Rathlin-1 Ireland 2030-1880 BC:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 43.39
    2 Natufian 29.8
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 22.68
    4 Sub_Saharan 2.27
    5 East_Asian 1.86


    Hinxton-1 Britain 160 BC - 25 AD:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 45.16
    2 Natufian 35
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 19.84


    Hinxton-4 Britain 170 BC - 80 AD:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 45.11
    2 Natufian 33.9
    3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 19.27
    4 East_Asian 1.72

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I thought it was understood that there was no way MA-1 was "Mongloid". All of the evidence suggest they were strong chinned, pronounced nosed Caucasoids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    Since we don't have his skull, we can only speculate. I'd think he didn't yet developed in either direction, much like the Sungir individuals or Kostenki.

    Let's do the Sungir skulls, who are a few thousand years older than Mal'ta and situated near Moscow:

    Male, 60-year-old



    Adult woman



    Boy, 13-year-old



    Girl, 8-year-old



    They don't resemble the Caucasoid morphology in the Near East and Europe very closely, imho.
    No, they don't to me either, but I always distrust reconstructions. They were so completely wrong with Otzi, for example, as we discovered when more sophisticated analysis was one.

    I found this in my files. It's a picture of the skeleton of the Mal'ta boy. I don't know what someone could make of this:



    The Russian anthropologists who actually handled the bones and measured them said that the nasal bones, some "shoveling" in the incisors, and the flatness of the upper face were signs of a "Mongoloid" appearance. They found some evidence of "Mongoloid" traits in the Sunghir individuals as well.

    I have no way of knowing whether they were correct or not, but even if they were, I don't know how one would jump to the conclusion that they were "Mongoloid". After all, we know for an absolute fact that the SHG carried the alleles for EDAR, which is definitely an East Asian set of traits today. Were they "Mongoloid"?

    My own personal opinion is that it makes no sense to try to assign discrete "racial" identities, identities put together by anthropologists in the late 19th century, to people this far back in history.

    Fwiw, these are some of the figurines created by these people. If one goes by this, they were certainly long nosed, but I doubt this kind of evidence as well. People adopt a "style" even when it doesn't look much like them in actuality. It's far better to go with skeletal evidence if one doesn't have enough genetic material to check for alleles.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    ^^^ Looks just like Jesus Christ:


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    Can we think about the other ANE, Afontova Gora 17,000bc together, who had more west eurasian components than Malta?

    1. The anthropolosist V. P. Alekseev’s opinion, who sharply mentioned south asian components also.

    V. P. Alekseev discussed the racial types of the Altai-Sayan uplands during the Neolithic and Bronze Age. On the basis of geological and palreo-climatic evidence, he feels that the initial human settlement of the area could have taken place as far back as the Lower Palreolithic (which in Soviet usage includes the Mousterian). Judging by the Afontova Gora II cranial fragment, the Upper Palreolithic population evidently must be assigned to the Mongoloid race. The Europeoid component begins to penetrate into certain areas during the Neolithic-especially into the southern part of the Krasnoyarsk Territory. Alekseev identifies in this latter area a morphologically Negroid type which would indicate contact with southern regions. In the Afanasievo period the Europeoid component becomes predominant, while the physical similarity of the Afanasievo population with that of the ancient Yamno culture of the South Russian steppes evidences their kinship as well as the western origin of the bulk ofthe Afanasievo population. The formation ofthe racial type characteristic of the Andronovo period probably took place in the region of Kazakhstan and the Altai in pre-Andronovo times, with subsequent penetration into the Minusinsk basin. The basic type of the Karasuk population, in Alekseev's opinion, is a brachycranial Europeoid one; hence the origin ofthe Karasuk people is not linked with China but with eastern Turkestan and the southern regions of Soviet Central Asia."
    2. Then, ask why genetic data's result is so different from anthro data's?

    Afontova Gora II with Eurogenes K15:

    North sea 19.25
    Baltic 9.77
    East Euro 51.75

    south aisan 2.26
    south east asian 1.63
    sibreian 3.58
    american Idian 16.97
    oceanian 0.34
    Northeast African 0.26

    3. and then I want more to ask whether the K15 data is correct in ancient fossils? B/C ANE is close to East Asian Han, far from WHG.


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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    No, they don't to me either, but I always distrust reconstructions. They were so completely wrong with Otzi, for example, as we discovered when more sophisticated analysis was one.

    I found this in my files. It's a picture of the skeleton of the Mal'ta boy. I don't know what someone could make of this:
    I agree as a whole with your post -
    but I find the picture you posted a bit subject to doubt; is it a photographic picture or something else? ATW as you say I don't see what could be made based on it!

  21. #21
    Elite member
    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    71
    Posts
    4,741

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    Can we think about the other ANE, Afontova Gora 17,000bc together, who had more west eurasian components than Malta?

    1. The anthropolosist V. P. Alekseev’s opinion, who sharply mentioned south asian components also.



    2. Then, ask why genetic data's result is so different from anthro data's?
    "Judging by the Afontova Gora II cranial fragment, the Upper Palreolithic population evidently must be assigned to the Mongoloid race."
    Perhaps have we here kind of answer? Too quick conclusion based on too poor stuff? a modern well characterized type requires a lot of mutations/drifts that could not be found in remote times, and 25% of pseudo-mongoloid DNA can provide some mongoloid features in individuals, not shared by entire pop.

  22. #22
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Unmixed Native Americans are around 20-25% Caucasoid (West Eurasian).

    Kits of Native Americans (first 3 are unmixed, last 3 slightly Euro-admixed):

    M174237
    M192137
    M637791
    M051413
    M283662
    M221108 - mostly Mayan



    Their results in Gedrosia K3:



    Unmixed Native American (kit M174237):

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 E_Eurasian 77.21
    2 W_Eurasian 22.79


    Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
    3 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Altaian @ 3.850997
    2 Yukagir @ 7.566089
    3 Yukagir @ 7.566089
    4 Kharia @ 7.710388
    5 Great_Andamanese @ 8.578797
    6 Onge @ 9.086884
    7 Birhor @ 9.304724
    8 Kyrgyz @ 10.345919
    9 Bhumij @ 11.542670
    10 Sherpa @ 13.354014
    11 Gond @ 17.560059
    12 Paniyas @ 18.258831
    13 Thai @ 20.282179
    14 Changapa @ 20.967503
    15 Nihali @ 23.295263
    16 Kattunayakkan @ 25.599689
    17 Mongola @ 25.925554
    18 Nganasan @ 26.953400
    19 Tibet-refugees @ 27.252836
    20 Hazara @ 28.312693

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Hazara +50% Subba @ 0.308882
    2 50% Hazara +50% Tibet-refugees @ 0.537675
    3 50% Hazara +50% Nganasan @ 0.680751
    4 50% Hazara +50% Mongola @ 1.194173
    5 50% Kyrgyz +50% Yukagir @ 1.389913
    6 50% Kyrgyz +50% Yukagir @ 1.389913
    7 50% Kyrgyz +50% Sherpa @ 1.506657
    8 50% Hazara +50% Ulchi @ 1.851572
    9 50% Altaian +50% Yukagir @ 1.857543
    10 50% Altaian +50% Yukagir @ 1.857543
    11 50% Han +50% Hazara @ 1.935836
    12 50% Dai +50% Hazara @ 1.955318
    13 50% Ami +50% Hazara @ 1.955349
    14 50% Hazara +50% Nivkh @ 1.955349
    15 50% Irula +50% Subba @ 2.188093
    16 50% Ami +50% Chenchu @ 2.229834
    17 50% Chenchu +50% Nivkh @ 2.229834
    18 50% Chenchu +50% Dai @ 2.229897
    19 50% Chenchu +50% Han @ 2.244962
    20 50% Birhor +50% Yukagir @ 2.295154

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Ami +25% Ami +25% Chechen @ 0.000000



    Unmixed Native American (kit M192137):

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 E_Eurasian 75.58
    2 W_Eurasian 24.23


    Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
    3 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Altaian @ 1.686324
    2 Kharia @ 5.924846
    3 Great_Andamanese @ 6.830129
    4 Birhor @ 7.350073
    5 Kyrgyz @ 8.177081
    6 Onge @ 9.396663
    7 Bhumij @ 9.480144
    8 Yukagir @ 9.736913
    9 Yukagir @ 9.736913
    10 Gond @ 15.393288
    11 Sherpa @ 15.514201
    12 Paniyas @ 16.138699
    13 Nihali @ 21.121679
    14 Thai @ 22.443312
    15 Changapa @ 23.133221
    16 Kattunayakkan @ 23.425608
    17 Hazara @ 26.142723
    18 Irula @ 27.731430
    19 Mongola @ 28.095785
    20 Nganasan @ 29.123621

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Kyrgyz +50% Yukagir @ 0.791240
    2 50% Kyrgyz +50% Yukagir @ 0.791240
    3 50% Hazara +50% Mongola @ 0.980906
    4 50% Ami +50% Bengali @ 1.196445
    5 50% Bengali +50% Nivkh @ 1.196445
    6 50% Bengali +50% Dai @ 1.196501
    7 50% Chenchu +50% Ulchi @ 1.206835
    8 50% Bengali +50% Han @ 1.213791
    9 50% Chenchu +50% Han @ 1.243518
    10 50% Ami +50% Chenchu @ 1.252263
    11 50% Chenchu +50% Nivkh @ 1.252263
    12 50% Chenchu +50% Dai @ 1.252301
    13 50% Mala +50% Ulchi @ 1.283897
    14 50% Bengali +50% Ulchi @ 1.289442
    15 50% Han +50% Mala @ 1.297913
    16 50% Ami +50% Mala @ 1.301914
    17 50% Mala +50% Nivkh @ 1.301914
    18 50% Dai +50% Mala @ 1.301966
    19 50% Ami +50% Kamsali @ 1.321784
    20 50% Kamsali +50% Nivkh @ 1.321784

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Altaian +25% Hazara +25% Nganasan @ 0.000000



    Unmixed Native American (kit M637791):

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 E_Eurasian 74.58
    2 W_Eurasian 25.42


    Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
    3 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Altaian @ 0.000000
    2 Kharia @ 5.194213
    3 Great_Andamanese @ 6.105125
    4 Birhor @ 6.327569
    5 Kyrgyz @ 6.623735
    6 Bhumij @ 8.256154
    7 Onge @ 10.256041
    8 Yukagir @ 11.288272
    9 Yukagir @ 11.288272
    10 Gond @ 13.948858
    11 Paniyas @ 14.787859
    12 Sherpa @ 17.073860
    13 Nihali @ 19.653416
    14 Kattunayakkan @ 21.954786
    15 Thai @ 24.001825
    16 Hazara @ 24.590527
    17 Changapa @ 24.689009
    18 Irula @ 26.232796
    19 Mongola @ 29.647739
    20 Nganasan @ 30.675585

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Altaian +50% Altaian @ 0.000000
    2 50% Changapa +50% Hazara @ 0.000000
    3 50% Hazara +50% Thai @ 0.562507
    4 50% Bengali +50% Ulchi @ 0.872074
    5 50% Bengali +50% Han @ 0.913657
    6 50% Ami +50% Bengali @ 0.923566
    7 50% Bengali +50% Nivkh @ 0.923566
    8 50% Bengali +50% Dai @ 0.923601
    9 50% Ulchi +50% UP_Chamar @ 1.340246
    10 50% Bengali +50% Subba @ 1.377002
    11 50% Han +50% UP_Chamar @ 1.378648
    12 50% Ami +50% UP_Chamar @ 1.387753
    13 50% Nivkh +50% UP_Chamar @ 1.387753
    14 50% Dai +50% UP_Chamar @ 1.387790
    15 50% Chenchu +50% Subba @ 1.520503
    16 50% Ami +50% Kallar @ 1.524083
    17 50% Kallar +50% Nivkh @ 1.524083
    18 50% Dai +50% Kallar @ 1.524150
    19 50% Han +50% Kallar @ 1.533447
    20 50% Chenchu +50% Nganasan @ 1.545272

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Altaian +25% Altaian +25% Altaian @ 0.000000

  23. #23
    Elite member
    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,646

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Another unmixed Native American (this time ancient DNA sample):

    Clovis Anzick-1, Montana, 10700-10550 BC (kit F999919):

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 E_Eurasian 74.24
    2 W_Eurasian 24.66
    3 SSA 1.10

    Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
    3 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Altaian @ 1.390273
    2 Kharia @ 4.253368
    3 Great_Andamanese @ 5.162654
    4 Birhor @ 5.679259
    5 Kyrgyz @ 7.049500
    6 Bhumij @ 7.863260
    7 Onge @ 8.939782
    8 Yukagir @ 11.074672
    9 Yukagir @ 11.074672
    10 Gond @ 13.935334
    11 Paniyas @ 14.581216
    12 Sherpa @ 16.789351
    13 Nihali @ 19.686832
    14 Kattunayakkan @ 21.991709
    15 Thai @ 23.698168
    16 Changapa @ 24.406475
    17 Hazara @ 24.915745
    18 Irula @ 26.342995
    19 Mongola @ 29.382793
    20 Nganasan @ 30.409595

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Ami +50% UP_Chamar @ 0.000000
    2 50% Chenchu +50% Subba @ 0.000000
    3 50% Dai +50% UP_Chamar @ 0.000000
    4 50% Han +50% UP_Chamar @ 0.000000
    5 50% Mala +50% Subba @ 0.000000
    6 50% Nivkh +50% UP_Chamar @ 0.000000
    7 50% Ulchi +50% UP_Chamar @ 0.000000
    8 50% Hallkipiki +50% Subba @ 0.281488
    9 50% Kamsali +50% Ulchi @ 0.480379
    10 50% Bengali +50% Ulchi @ 0.547935
    11 50% Han +50% Kamsali @ 0.564644
    12 50% Bengali +50% Han @ 0.582207
    13 50% Dai +50% Kamsali @ 0.584120
    14 50% Ami +50% Kamsali @ 0.584152
    15 50% Kamsali +50% Nivkh @ 0.584152
    16 50% Bengali +50% Dai @ 0.590645
    17 50% Ami +50% Bengali @ 0.590713
    18 50% Bengali +50% Nivkh @ 0.590713
    19 50% Chenchu +50% Tibet-refugees @ 0.788032
    20 50% Ami +50% Bhil @ 0.872780

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Altaian +25% Kattunayakkan +25% Thai @ 0.000000

  24. #24
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,293

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    2 members found this post helpful.
    F999919 Clovis-Anzick-1
    N America, Montana 12.5kya
    Run time 18.2
    S-Indian -
    Baloch 0.49
    Caucasian -
    NE-Euro 1.51
    SE-Asian 1.05
    Siberian 1.17
    NE-Asian 0.18
    Papuan 0.23
    American 88.41
    Beringian 5.25
    Mediterranean 0.68
    SW-Asian -
    San 0.17
    E-African -
    Pygmy 0.09
    W-African 0.76

    He is 88% American admixture. Surui-Karitiana is 100%. Therefore he should have similar look to these people.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 02-03-17 at 04:56.

  25. #25
    Regular Member ThirdTerm's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-16
    Posts
    130


    Country: Russian Federation



    MA-1 belongs to Y-DNA haplogroup R* and mtDNA haplogroup U. Haplogroup U is a typical haplogroup of European hunter-gatherers and Y-DNA haplogroup R* is the ancestral haplogroup for R1a and R1b. West Siberian populations such as Mansi and Khants have the high frequency of hg U4, which is a West Eurasian haplogroup inherited from ancient European hunting-gatherers. The presence of Asian haplogroups is a result of population admixture which goes back to 6,000–10,000 years ago. Ancient Siberians who lived around 24,000-10,000 years ago had no East Asian admixture. Raghavan et al. (2014) found that MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and it's also related to modern-day Native Americans (14-38%). Native Americans carry a high frequency of R1 (R-M173), which may be partialy derived from MA-1 in addition to presumed post-Columbian admixture. Haplogroup R-M173 (R1) is common among some Native American tribes (38-79%) and R1 is also widespread among certain south-central Siberian groups.

    The origins of the First Americans remain contentious. Although Native Americans seem to be genetically most closely related to east Asians, there is no consensus with regard to which specific Old World populations they are closest to. Here we sequence the draft genome of an approximately 24,000-year-old individual (MA-1), from Mal'ta in south-central Siberia, to an average depth of 1×. To our knowledge this is the oldest anatomically modern human genome reported to date. The MA-1 mitochondrial genome belongs to haplogroup U, which has also been found at high frequency among Upper Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, and the Y chromosome of MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and near the root of most Native American lineages. Similarly, we find autosomal evidence that MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and genetically closely related to modern-day Native Americans, with no close affinity to east Asians. This suggests that populations related to contemporary western Eurasians had a more north-easterly distribution 24,000 years ago than commonly thought. Furthermore, we estimate that 14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from this ancient population. This is likely to have occurred after the divergence of Native American ancestors from east Asian ancestors, but before the diversification of Native American populations in the New World. Gene flow from the MA-1 lineage into Native American ancestors could explain why several crania from the First Americans have been reported as bearing morphological characteristics that do not resemble those of east Asians. Sequencing of another south-central Siberian, Afontova Gora-2 dating to approximately 17,000 years ago, revealed similar autosomal genetic signatures as MA-1, suggesting that the region was continuously occupied by humans throughout the Last Glacial Maximum. Our findings reveal that western Eurasian genetic signatures in modern-day Native Americans derive not only from post-Columbian admixture, as commonly thought, but also from a mixed ancestry of the First Americans.
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 02-03-17 at 23:20.
    Давайте вместе снова сделаем мир великий!

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