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Thread: Genetic source of Unetice Culture.

  1. #1
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    Genetic source of Unetice Culture.

    I've been running new kits (DNA), I got my hands on recently, through HarappaWorld admixture and started to notice some patterns. (Maybe real ones. ;)
    After quick calculations I found fairly good match for ancestral source of Unetice Culture. Have a look:

    I mixed Hungarian Late Neolithic Farmer with also Late Neolithic Yamnaya. Actually, the Yamnaya guy was an outlier found in Yamnaya, genetically looking much different than typical Yamnayan. To me he looks more like pure or almost pure hunter-gatherer, and probably will match recently found hunter gatherers of Latvia and Ukraine. It hard to be sure though, as they don't have kits in GedMatch yet. If this Yamnaya outlier have some farmer admixed in it, it would have been from EEF source. His closest match, from existing GedMatch kits, is Estonian CW, who had some EEF.

    In short, Unetice people, could be composed from Late Neolithic "Hungarian" Farmer and Outlier Hunter Gatherer from Samara, but most likely originally from Ukraine/West Yamnaya. (Just being on "vacation" in Samara/East Yamnaya).

    First two columns contain Samara outlier and Hungarian farmer runs. Third column, in bold, is for supposed mixed offspring of these two, in proportions of 80% of Samara Outlier and 20% NE7 Farmer. Fourth column shows real Unetice guy genome. It is damn close I must say!


    M630274 I0432 F999928 NE7, I-L1228 Mix of R1a h-g with LN Farmer M453254 RISE154
    Samara Poltavka outlier R1a-M417>Z93 2925-2536 BC Hungary, Apc-Berekalja I 6.4kya Unetice EBA Poland [1925-1765 BC] K1a4a1 -
    Run time 7.79 Run time 6.72 Run time Run Time 4.06
    S-Indian 0 S-Indian 0 S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch 14.7 Baloch 0 Baloch 11.76 Baloch 14.46
    Caucasian 0 Caucasian 19.04 Caucasian 3.81 Caucasian 4.05
    NE-Euro 63.14 NE-Euro 16.69 NE-Euro 53.85 NE-Euro 53.71
    SE-Asian 0 SE-Asian 0 SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0 Siberian 0 Siberian - Siberian -
    NE-Asian 0 NE-Asian 0 NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan 0 Papuan 0 Papuan - Papuan -
    American 0 American 0 American - American 0.96
    Beringian 0 Beringian 0 Beringian - Beringian -
    Mediterranean 22.15 Mediterranean 56.18 Mediterranean 28.96 Mediterranean 26.58
    SW-Asian 0 SW-Asian 7.96 SW-Asian 1.59 SW-Asian -
    San 0 San 0 San - San -
    E-African 0 E-African 0 E-African - E-African 0.2
    Pygmy 0 Pygmy 0 Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 0 W-African 0.11 W-African 0.02 W-African -
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  2. #2
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    Similarities of Samara Outlier to Estonia CW. In third column is typical Yamnayan and in 4th typical hunter gatherer from Samara, the EHG.

    M913021 Rise00 M630274 I0432 M655536 i0237 M218547 I0124
    Estonia CW, 4 kya Samara Poltavka outlier R1a-M417>Z93 2925-2536 BC Yamnaya Samara HG 7.6 kya
    Run Time 8.05 Run time 7.79 Run time 10.43 Run time 5.57
    S-Indian 0 S-Indian 0 S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch 14.27 Baloch 14.7 Baloch 30.11 Baloch 14.33
    Caucasian 0 Caucasian 0 Caucasian 5.75 Caucasian -
    NE-Euro 59.09 NE-Euro 63.14 NE-Euro 58.99 NE-Euro 75.62
    SE-Asian 0 SE-Asian 0 SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0.8 Siberian 0 Siberian - Siberian -
    NE-Asian 0 NE-Asian 0 NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan 0 Papuan 0 Papuan - Papuan -
    American 0 American 0 American 3.58 American 9.62
    Beringian 0 Beringian 0 Beringian 1.46 Beringian 0.15
    Mediterranean 25.26 Mediterranean 22.15 Mediterranean - Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian 0 SW-Asian 0 SW-Asian - SW-Asian -
    San 0 San 0 San - San -
    E-African 0 E-African 0 E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy 0 Pygmy 0 Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 0.5 W-African 0 W-African 0.11 W-African 0.2

    The difference between Samara Outlier and Estonia CW is lower NE Euro and higher Mediterranean in CW, denoting more admixture with European Farmer EEF, and very low EEF in SO or complete lack of it. Making it pure (or almost) hunter gatherer.

    The difference between SO and Yamnaya/Samara HG is that SO has lots of Med admixture making it very WHG without much of EHG mix. It also lacks completely American and Beringian admixtures, a signature of anyone coming from Yamnaya and Steppe.

    I think SO will be very close in admixture composition and genetics to newly discovered Latvia HG and Ukrainian HG. I just wonder if they also will have Baloch? True WHG didn't have Baloch. It might be 4th distinct hunter-gatherer of Europe, with company of WHG, SHG and EHG.

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    Here are more similar Unetice samples, and also not too far off few others.

    Mix of R1a h-g with LN Farmer M453254 RISE154 F999948 Rise150 M425717 I0116 M232268 BA F999956 Rise94 M107790 I0118
    Unetice EBA Poland [1925-1765 BC] K1a4a1 - Poland, slask 3.75kya Unetice IrelandBA Rathlin1 BA Sweden, Vibi 4kya Germany LN
    Run time Run Time 4.06 Run time 8.44 Run time 6.22 Run time 16.74 Run Time 5.95 Run time 11.67
    S-Indian - S-Indian - S-Indian - S-Indian - S-Indian 0.97 S-Indian - S-Indian 1.28
    Baloch 11.76 Baloch 14.46 Baloch 14.65 Baloch 12.21 Baloch 12.89 Baloch 16.53 Baloch 11.84
    Caucasian 3.81 Caucasian 4.05 Caucasian 2.73 Caucasian 2.27 Caucasian 2.14 Caucasian 4.23 Caucasian 6.75
    NE-Euro 53.85 NE-Euro 53.71 NE-Euro 53.54 NE-Euro 58.33 NE-Euro 52.72 NE-Euro 54.16 NE-Euro 49.39
    SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian - Siberian - Siberian - Siberian - Siberian 0.96 Siberian - Siberian -
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan - Papuan - Papuan 0.48 Papuan - Papuan - Papuan - Papuan -
    American - American 0.96 American 0.22 American 0.88 American 1.14 American - American -
    Beringian - Beringian - Beringian 0.49 Beringian - Beringian - Beringian - Beringian -
    Mediterranean 28.96 Mediterranean 26.58 Mediterranean 27.12 Mediterranean 26.25 Mediterranean 26.58 Mediterranean 24.72 Mediterranean 30.33
    SW-Asian 1.59 SW-Asian - SW-Asian - SW-Asian - SW-Asian - SW-Asian - SW-Asian -
    San - San - San - San - San - San - San -
    E-African - E-African 0.2 E-African 0.34 E-African - E-African - E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy - Pygmy - Pygmy - Pygmy 0.07 Pygmy 0.13 Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African 0.02 W-African - W-African 0.42 W-African - W-African 2.45 W-African 0.37 W-African 0.37

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    To be more precise, I think the Samara Outlier, the new hunter gatherer, will be more like Ukrainian and Latvian MN2 and keeping similar place on PCA chart. The Latvian HG were very like typical WHG, and probably will show no Baloch admixture at all.
    Can't wait till we have these in GedMatch.

    I'm sure the new Ukrainian like HG/Samara Outlier, if it turns to be true ancestor of CW/Unetice people, will still confirm (not negate) Yamanaya/Steppe ancestry in CW and Unetice, as it is quite related to East Yamanyans and Samara HGs.
    Also being mostly WHG it might be the best fit for the surge in WHG in Bronze age and post Bronze age European societies.

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    why did you make the 80/20 mix?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    why did you make the 80/20 mix?
    I started from 50/50 and played with percentages till I got a good match at 80/20. I also tried different hunter gatherers with farmer mix. We'll see when we have genomes of Ukrainian HG and Cucuteni or Polish Farmer if they are even better matches than what I used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I started from 50/50 and played with percentages till I got a good match at 80/20. I also tried different hunter gatherers with farmer mix. We'll see when we have genomes of Ukrainian HG and Cucuteni or Polish Farmer if they are even better matches than what I used.
    we don't have DNA from late western Yamna yet
    they may be a better match
    it is obvious that you have to mix with some European neolithic farmer as they were the local population before people from the steppe arrived

    the R1a newcomer isn't he similar to Potapovka and Sintashta DNA ?

    and isn't Vucedol, Vatya, Gata/Wieslburg, Maros and maybe even Urnfield similar to Unetice ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    we don't have DNA from late western Yamna yet
    they may be a better match
    it is obvious that you have to mix with some European neolithic farmer as they were the local population before people from the steppe arrived

    the R1a newcomer isn't he similar to Potapovka and Sintashta DNA ?
    Yes, pretty much genetically very related and all R1a Z93. They had ancestry in the same tribe.

    M630274 I0432, R1a Z93 M370663 I0419, R1a Z93 M690970 Rise386, Z93 M217196 I0430, R1a Z93
    Samara Poltavka outlier 2925-2536 BC Samara, Potapovka 2200-1900 BC Sintashta 4kya Srubna 3.5kya
    Run time 7.79 Run time 5.76 Run time 3.81 Run time 8.02
    S-Indian - S-Indian - S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch 14.7 Baloch 22.13 Baloch 18.5 Baloch 19.86
    Caucasian - Caucasian 0.82 Caucasian 2.01 Caucasian 2.35
    NE-Euro 63.14 NE-Euro 52.93 NE-Euro 57.8 NE-Euro 55.13
    SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian - Siberian - Siberian - Siberian -
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan - Papuan - Papuan - Papuan -
    American - American 0.09 American - American 0.91
    Beringian - Beringian - Beringian 0.56 Beringian -
    Mediterranean 22.15 Mediterranean 23.77 Mediterranean 19.92 Mediterranean 21.67
    SW-Asian - SW-Asian - SW-Asian - SW-Asian -
    San - San - San - San -
    E-African - E-African - E-African - E-African 0.07
    Pygmy - Pygmy - Pygmy - Pygmy -
    W-African - W-African 0.27 W-African 1.2 W-African -


    and isn't Vucedol, Vatya, Gata/Wieslburg, Maros and maybe even Urnfield similar to Unetice ?
    I don't have anyone marked "Vucedol, Vatya, Gata/Wieslburg". Do you have their Rise or I numbers or gedmatch kit number?
    Maros from Hungary is more like Bronze Age Hungarians than CW/Unetice

    F999933 BR2, J-M67 M681225 BR1 M631469 RISE349 M974598 RISE374 and 373
    Hungary, Ludas-Varjú-dűlő, 3.3kya EBA Hungary Hungary MBA [2034-1748 BC] T2b3 - Maros Hungary [1866-1619 BC] T2 G2a-P287>P15>PF3178
    Run time 15.13 Run time 10.55 Run time 3.16 Run time 5.26
    S-Indian - S-Indian - S-Indian - S-Indian -
    Baloch 3.15 Baloch - Baloch 5.64 Baloch -
    Caucasian 14.73 Caucasian 5.45 Caucasian 13.81 Caucasian 18.58
    NE-Euro 46.18 NE-Euro 56.15 NE-Euro 38.22 NE-Euro 39.65
    SE-Asian 0.2 SE-Asian 0.49 SE-Asian - SE-Asian -
    Siberian - Siberian - Siberian - Siberian -
    NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian -
    Papuan 0.18 Papuan - Papuan - Papuan -
    American - American - American - American -
    Beringian - Beringian - Beringian - Beringian -
    Mediterranean 31.73 Mediterranean 34.48 Mediterranean 34.63 Mediterranean 40.09
    SW-Asian 3.33 SW-Asian 3.1 SW-Asian 3.94 SW-Asian 0.98
    San - San - San - San 0.17
    E-African - E-African - E-African - E-African -
    Pygmy - Pygmy - Pygmy - Pygmy 0.15
    W-African 0.48 W-African 0.3 W-African 3.75 W-African 0.39

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