Haplogroup Characteristics - R

[Dinarid]

Good, now let's think of one factor other than the Y-chromosome that made the Indo-Europeans successful ?

I don't understand. Do you seriously have a problem with even considering the possibility? There are other threads in which you can discuss whatever you want. This one is specifically dedicated to the influence of the Y chromosome.

 

[Dinarid]

Posting this again:



http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ab.20281/abstract

There seems to be a persistent idea that higher aggression leads to proliferation. I think there is no reason whatsoever to believe that this is the case.

What's funny is that until recently authors concerned with fertility and race thought that history usually saw the noble upper classes overcome by the fertile provincial lower classes. Hence the pervasive fear of dysgenic trends.

Both schools are bullshit imho, but it's interesting how ideas change like that.

Another problem is that "aggression" is thought of as inherently violent. People will go beyond the simple concept of boldness and go straight to the most striking or in-your-face meaning. No, breaking the law or attaining a criminal record is not correlated with "aggression".

 

[IronSide]

I don't understand. Do you seriously have a problem with even considering the possibility? There are other threads in which you can discuss whatever you want. This one is specifically dedicated to the influence of the Y chromosome.

Sorry myLord .. that I have a different opinion than you .. I repent my sins .. my crimes are uncountable .. including the disbelief in the Y-chromosome .. myLord .. I just thought that certain branches of R weren't successful because they weren't IE .. myLord they didn't have horses nor bronze weapons .. if you were to find it in your heart that you can forgive me .. and not cast me outside your benevolence .. myLord please don't be territorial .. I know it's difficult for you .. being of the blessed haplogroup I ..

 

[Dinarid]

Sorry myLord .. that I have a different opinion than you .. I repent my sins .. my crimes are uncountable .. including the disbelief in the Y-chromosome .. myLord .. I just thought that certain branches of R weren't successful because they weren't IE .. myLord they didn't have horses nor bronze weapons .. if you were to find it in your heart that you can forgive me .. and not cast me outside your benevolence .. myLord please don't be territorial .. I know it's difficult for you .. being of the blessed haplogroup I ..

No need to get nasty, my subject. Perhaps if you had read what I posted correctly, you would see quite clearly that I had nothing against the point you made–just that you complained of not being allowed to discuss the success of the Indo-Europeans outside of the realm of Haplogroup R, when I had specifically started this thread for the purpose of discussing possible genetic reasons for the successes of R lineages.

 

[stevenarmstrong]

Another problem is that "aggression" is thought of as inherently violent. People will go beyond the simple concept of boldness and go straight to the most striking or in-your-face meaning. No, breaking the law or attaining a criminal record is not correlated with "aggression".

True. When I describe myself as aggressive, I simply mean that when I set my intentions on something, I do everything within my power to achieve it—within the bounds of interpersonal ethics and the rule of law, of course. Violence has only ever come into my personal equation in the case of sport (American football is inherently violent) and self-defense.

 

[Bergin]

If I remember correctly, there was a paper (highlighted in the forum but cant find it now) that stated: the R Ydna had a higher chance to have male descendants, which would give an advantage in war (and probably some increased level of aggressiveness)

 

[IronSide]

If I remember correctly, there was a paper (highlighted in the forum but cant find it now) that stated: the R Ydna had a higher chance to have male descendants, which would give an advantage in war (and probably some increased level of aggressiveness)

You can't say that of R1b-M335, it's almost non-existent.

I feel I'm ruining this. Sorry.

 

[Dinarid]

You can't say that of R1b-M335, it's almost non-existent.

I feel I'm ruining this. Sorry.

Careful with your self-confidence. No one ever suggested that literally every subclade would be successful.

 

[ROS]

Est? claro que por lo que respecta a R1B la Europa atl?ntica, que es donde est? el mayor porcentaje europeo, ha tenido una gran expansi?n hacia el continente americano, primero Espa?a y Portugal y luego Inglaterra y tambi?n otros pa?ses europeos, hacia occidente no hab?a m?s tierra y encontraron un nuevo continente, ahora bien, R1A tambi?n ha tenido su expansi?n en fechas hist?ricas no muy lejanas, quiz?s esta necesidad de expansi?n se encuentre en R1.

Desde mi modesta opini?n como aficionado a estos temas.

It is clear that as far as R1B is concerned, the Atlantic Europe, which is where the largest European percentage is, has had a great expansion towards the American continent, first Spain and Portugal and then England and also other European countries, towards the West there was no more Land and found a new continent, however, R1A has also had its expansion in historical dates not very distant, perhaps this need of expansion is in R1.


From my modest opinion as a fan of these issues.

 

[stevenarmstrong]

Est� claro que por lo que respecta a R1B la Europa atl�ntica, que es donde est� el mayor porcentaje europeo, ha tenido una gran expansi�n hacia el continente americano, primero Espa�a y Portugal y luego Inglaterra y tambi�n otros pa�ses europeos, hacia occidente no hab�a m�s tierra y encontraron un nuevo continente, ahora bien, R1A tambi�n ha tenido su expansi�n en fechas hist�ricas no muy lejanas, quiz�s esta necesidad de expansi�n se encuentre en R1.

Desde mi modesta opini�n como aficionado a estos temas.

La pregunta es <<¿por qué?>>. ¿Por qué la gente R tiene más éxito en Europa que los otros haplogrupos?

 

[ROS]

Asociaci?n con los metales?
Tolerancia a la lactosa?
Estructura social m?s jerarquizada?
El ?nimo expansionista comentado?
Domesticaci?n de los caballos?
Etc...
Es dif?cil de saber.

Si R1B vino del Este, no creo que a?n se tenga toda la certeza desde d?nde del Este ni cuando, est? claro que por lo menos en Europa Occidental encontr? unos pobladores con cierta inferioridad t?cnica, social, de adaptaci?n al medio, etc. a los que super? y consigui? este ?xito como haplogrupo, sentando las bases de la gen?tica europea occidental.

Y posiblemente otro tanto cabe decir de R1A.

Association with metals?
Tolerance to lactose?
More hierarchical social structure?
The expansionist mood commented?
Domestication of horses?
Etc...
It's hard to know.


If R1B came from the East, I do not think that we still have all the certainty from where from the East or when, it is clear that at least in Western Europe found some people with some technical inferiority, social, of adaptation to the environment, etc. To which he surpassed and achieved this success as a haplogroup, laying the foundations of Western European genetics.


And possibly the same is true of R1A.

 

[stevenarmstrong]

Asociaci�n con los metales?
Tolerancia a la lactosa?
Estructura social m�s jerarquizada?
El �nimo expansionista comentado?
Domesticaci�n de los caballos?
Etc...
Es dif�cil de saber.

Yo dije lo mismo. Unos de los miembros creen que los R tiene caractarísticas diferentes (como la agresión) que se funciona como ventajas. Es divertido a pensar en eso, pero ¿quién sabe?

 

[LeBrok]

Asociaci�n con los metales?
Tolerancia a la lactosa?
Estructura social m�s jerarquizada?
El �nimo expansionista comentado?
Domesticaci�n de los caballos?
Etc...
Es dif�cil de saber.

Si R1B vino del Este, no creo que a�n se tenga toda la certeza desde d�nde del Este ni cuando, est� claro que por lo menos en Europa Occidental encontr� unos pobladores con cierta inferioridad t�cnica, social, de adaptaci�n al medio, etc. a los que super� y consigui� este �xito como haplogrupo, sentando las bases de la gen�tica europea occidental.

Y posiblemente otro tanto cabe decir de R1A.

Ros, please use english only (or post in two languages spanish and english), even if through rough Google translation.

 

[ROS]

Ok, de acuerdo.

 

[AdeoF]

English Aimgo please gracias/thank you.
Yea as saying I have noticed a lot of R people like to travel around to different places they have never been before, It's interesting from different places to live to exploring the world.

 

[Apsurdistan]

This theory that the Rs like to roam around a lot I doubt it has to do with the ydna. Gypsies and other nomadic tribes that are nomadic to this day are not majority R hg. Also to say that they build the most successful civilizations well look at China probably the most successful one in terms of longevity and they're not R.
Also anyone have information what's the percentage of I hg in North America?

 

[Dinarid]

This theory that the Rs like to roam around a lot I doubt it has to do with the ydna. Gypsies and other nomadic tribes that are nomadic to this day are not majority R hg. Also to say that they build the most successful civilizations well look at China probably the most successful one in terms of longevity and they're not R.
Also anyone have information what's the percentage of I hg in North America?

If we look at Egypt, it is true that members of Haplogroup R are a small minority of the population–but that small minority happened to include Tutankhamen.

 

[Coriolan]

This theory that the Rs like to roam around a lot I doubt it has to do with the ydna. Gypsies and other nomadic tribes that are nomadic to this day are not majority R hg. Also to say that they build the most successful civilizations well look at China probably the most successful one in terms of longevity and they're not R.
Also anyone have information what's the percentage of I hg in North America?

Gypsies are very different. They do not roam with the purpose of exploring and discovering new lands or to expand empires. They just don't settle down in cities and prefer to live in caravans, like nomads. In fact gypsies are the complete opposite of Indo-Europeans as they never created cities, countries or empires. Exploration in R1b societies has long been linked with commercial endeavours. Think of the Dutch and British East India Companies, the Portuguese commercial empire, or before that the Venetian trade routes along the Silk Road. Exploration is a way of finding resources, exploit them and trade them. Gypsies never did anything like that.

 

[Apsurdistan]

Who's trying to build the modern silk road? China.
I see the point you guys are trying to make, maybe there's something to it but there's so many holes in all these theories.

 

[Edward_J]

Speaking of China (and Asia in general)...where does R1b rank in world wide frequency? I would guess that based on pure numbers, O is probably the king worldwide. I wonder if the assumptions made about European dominance is transferable to Asian dominance? Maybe something related to IJK?