R1b-M269>PF7562

Bagvalins (50-70% r1b) really have.

bagvalal (70% r1b??)

Bagvalal - R1b 19/38 (50 %):
Coevolution of genes and languages and high levels of population structure among the highland populations of Daghestan
A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe
 
Bagvalal - R1b 19/38 (50 %):
Coevolution of genes and languages and high levels of population structure among the highland populations of Daghestan
A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe

Yes...but I would love to know which Y mutations they have and have not so that we could compare with other populations.
 
The most disappointing thing about this thread/forum and Davidski's blog is the constant flow of t r o l l s who argue their personal theories that aren't supported by any data at all. R1b has absolutely nothing at all to do with the ancient Caucasus, either north or south. R1b is clearly intrusive to the Caucasus and lacks the age and diversity we would expect in the region. R1b is a hunter-gatherer lineage of Russia along with R1a. Outside of Armenians, R1b is at considerably lower frequency than the YDNA haplogroups that have been associated with the region, but also with the spread of farming. Sure a couple of smallsample sets in the north east Caucasus have shown high frequency but the caveat is that they are young founders. It's rather clear from the map that R1b was either native to Europe/European Balkans or Russia (steppes region in particular). Since the spread of the more successful branches of R1b are younger than the entrance of farming to Europe, one can only infer through the data, it arrived from the Russian steppes, that is, until the data points otherwise.

To the OP, I think R1b- both M269+ L23+ and M269+ L23- are excellent candidates for Hittite, but also likely the Cimmerians as well. The Mycenaean speaking Greeks and Illyrian language speakers should be added to that list. The Neolithic period of the Balkans are unlikely to have contained heavy doses of R1b, and if they were present, they were likely archaic versions of R1b that were overrun by the spread of farmers who arrived from the south and east.
 
Where's the R1b in Russia supposed to have come from? Inner earth?

I always thought that arguments about age and diversity precisely disfavoured an European origin.
 
Hello everybody, fine to join you. I've been tested by FTDN and my ydna is R-M269. Is there a chance how to go far deeper and discover which exact subclade I being too?
Thanks in advance
 
You can do more tests...

Hello everybody, fine to join you. I've been tested by FTDN and my ydna is R-M269. Is there a chance how to go far deeper and discover which exact subclade I being too?
Thanks in advance

R-M269.. is an old & diverse haploytpe that millions and millions of people have.

What test did you do with FTDNA?

YDNA-12 is the most basic one they do..
YDNA-37 will give you a more specific haplogroup... and Big-Y is expensive and the best... it will give you a place at the Y-Full Tree.
 
I could also add my maternal Grandfather to the list of those 9 Kosovars with PF7562.. I may be a slightly different branch as I have no Albanian matches on my YDNA.
This shows that PF7562 seems very diverse in Balkans especially North Albanians.
 
I could also add my maternal Grandfather to the list of those 9 Kosovars with PF7562.. I may be a slightly different branch as I have no Albanian matches on my YDNA.
This shows that PF7562 seems very diverse in Balkans especially North Albanians.


Very interesting, have you sent your results to Albanian bloodlines project?
 
Yes I have.. planing to do a full Big Y for both of my grandfathers... God willing at least by next year...
 
Yes I have.. planing to do a full Big Y for both of my grandfathers... God willing at least by next year...

Awesome! Paq fat
 
Maciamo ,is there a chance that you create a proper map for PF7562?

Sent from my STF-L09 using Tapatalk
 
You need to clear your browser cache to see the updated tree.

All I can say now is that the PF7562 branch appears to be related to the Sredny Stog incursions into the Balkans from 4200 to 3500 BCE. It isn't clear whether the Hittites descend from this pre-Yamna migration or not. Linguistically Hittite and other Anatolian IE languages are archaic and appear to have split long before the other branches split from each others. However the Hittites only show up in 1600 BCE, nearly 2000 years after the Yamna culture began and many centuries after R1b reached western Europe.

There has been a large increase of PF7563 results especially for west balkans/albanians. Its worth checking to see how it might effect the interpretation as the tmrca is quite old and diversity very high. most results can also be seen in at the Y global database. tree. apparently I cant post with a link yet. Most albanian results are from a project called Rrenjet dot com.
 
I could also add my maternal Grandfather to the list of those 9 Kosovars with PF7562.. I may be a slightly different branch as I have no Albanian matches on my YDNA.
This shows that PF7562 seems very diverse in Balkans especially North Albanians.

Yes. PF7563 has very diversity among albanians and with high tmrca as well.
You can see more results at project Rrenjet dot com also.
 

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