Scythian DNA

Remember my map? Remember my thread? a Few people were making fun of it, but who laughs the last now?
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30706-Europe-West-and-South_Central-Asia-and-the-unnatural-gap

It is almost like if I had the ancient DNA at hand when I made this.

mds1600fcpt4eo1s3.png


I knew Sarmatians would close with Caucasus groups but more Northern shifted towards East Europe. In fact it seems some Sarmatian groups even overlap with Caucasus tribes and some of them likely overlap as far south as almost reaching modern Kurdish or North Iranian aDNA.


We should also note that allot of what the scientists of this paper consider as "West Scythian" are in fact Sarmatians. This is why they come to the conclusion that both groups have similar but yet different point of origin. It should be well known by now that Sarmatians were related but not descend from Scythians.
 
I agree that it seems like a dead end, the Andronovo horizon as a whole perhaps, which is ironic given the time and energy that was expended trying to create fits for India using them.

ncomms14615-f7.jpg


This is what ADMIXTURE looks like when you know how to use it, i.e. you go from the actual ancient genome, i.e. CHG, not like that strange Willerslev group run.

Fwiw, we had some arguments about Gramkelidze here on this site where I said that there was a lot in his work which needed to be considered, but it wasn't a very popular idea with anyone but me.

Interesting that the eastern Scythians are closest to modern Kipchaks, and western Scythians to people of the Caucasus.

I think some people may have missed that Lazaridis is one of the authors of this study.

We should also take into account that the light blue component in the graph is neither completely West nor East Eurasian. It seems they have modeled it after Bronze Age Altains or even modern Central Asians, this is why no proxy population for it is visible on the graph. It is extremely unlikely that Iron Age Adygei or Russia was so heavy in East Eurasian admixture. If we assume the light blue is modeled after the regions mentioned above, this makes it roughly ~40-50% West Eurasian and 50-60% East Eurasian. That would make Russia_IA (what I assume is East Scythian) around ~15% East Eurasian and would explain why Kipchak and Tajiks/Uzbeks (all of them having around 10-25% East Eurasian DNA) the closest match.

Payzyrk is the most East Eurasian shifted one with around ~40% East Eurasian aDNA.
 
Last edited:
in this admixture graph Andronovo looks like lost in BA Altaï and Scythian
but Indian anciant DNA is lacking to judge the situation over there, same for Iranian Medes & Persians

Sorry, Bicicleur, I don't know what the bolded part means.

I agree that we can't come to any real conclusions until we have that big Caucasus paper and the Harappa genes and other Indian dna. However, given that Lazaridis and Reich are authors here, and the Reich Lab is producing that big Caucasus/Central Asian paper, perhaps we can be excused for seeing the paper and the tweet as hints of things to come.
 
Do they carried R1a Z94?I've read about Sarmatians:

The Late Scythian population considered in this study proved to be genetically homogeneous, although some connections with the Sarmatians were found. We also revealed similarities between the Scythian groups and the local Bronze Age population of the Srubnaya culture, as well as, to a lesser extent, a group representative of the Central Asian Bronze Age Okunevo culture.
-srubna cranial series are exteremly close to Afanasievo, not yamna.

- Mixing all type of women, I think, Central asian nomad cherished and kept their culture, thousand and thousand years. Nomad people’s hair mode was their pride, which has been continued from Indo-Aryan, scythian, samathian and Hun. Mongol also did this culture. It is not important for their bodies just to be changed by mixing with east asian. The important thing is their royal Hg is R and Q, keeping ANE tradition of shamanism. The basic philosophy of the shamanism is that the human was produced from father sky and mother earth. So they tried not to cultivate the earth of mother.

sarmatian crown
220px-Sarmatian_crown.jpg


central asian shaman's
ketshaman_zps4a3b4c9a.jpg

sarmatian Kazakhstan, 1st century
67576576.jpg


-keep in mind that the scythians were also cromagnon type or paleo-europoid type.

race ( paleo type , proto-European type ( race ), the northern race , severoevropeoidny type , kromanidny type) is characterized by a massive face , brahikefaliey , large ( acting ) nose , massive physique ,svetlopigmentirovannostyu ( that is, hair , eyes , skin .). [3] The origin of the type associated with the Cro-Magnon, [4][5] are typical representatives of this race were representatives Afanasiev archaeological culture (III - beginning of IIthousand. BC. E.), Tagar culture (VIII - IIIcenturies. BC. E .), Andronovo culture ( 2300 to n . e -. 1000 to the n . e ),the pit culture ( 3600 - 2300 up to n . e ). carcass cultures ( 1700 - 1200 cc . to n . Oe .), the Scythian populationPazyryk culture
http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ruwiki/668438
 
sorry, I didn't express that clear
in Karasuk, Okunevo, Scythian the EEF-like component is practicaly gone
as it is present in the Andronovo horizon, Karasuk, Okunevo, Scythian seem not to be derived from Andronovo but from the Yamna horizon which didn't have EEF

do you know when we could expect the Caucasus & Harappa paper?
and then, I'm also awaiting the Bell Beaker paper ..
 
sorry, I didn't express that clear
in Karasuk, Okunevo, Scythian the EEF-like component is practicaly gone
as it is present in the Andronovo horizon, Karasuk, Okunevo, Scythian seem not to be derived from Andronovo but from the Yamna horizon which didn't have EEF

do you know when we could expect the Caucasus & Harappa paper?
and then, I'm also awaiting the Bell Beaker paper ..

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I also think that's what the ancient dna is showing.

No, I don't know when the Reich Lab is going to post the Caucasus and Bell Beaker papers. I have no "inside" access; I'm just reading the "hints" that are in the public domain. My "predictions", when I make them, are always "real" predictions, not inside access of some kind masquerading as a "prediction". That's why they're sometimes wrong. :)

As for the "Harappa" paper, maybe the next century? :)
 
As an aside, this is also what Gramkelidze, Ivanov & Grigoryev (the latter of whom wrote a huge tome on Sintashta-Arkaim) stated decades ago. I never knew what to make of it.

Yes.
Anyway overall the origins of Indo Iranian can't change much, because Z645 is found in CWC.
So r1a Z93 has East European origin almost certainly.
 
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I also think that's what the ancient dna is showing.

yes, but again, the Y-DNA is showing a different story
afaik Scythian Y-DNA has mostly R1a-Z93 and no R1b-M269

it is not a straightforward story
 
Yes.
Anyway overall the origins of Indo Iranian can't change much, because Z645 is found in CWC.
So r1a Z93 has East European origin almost certainly.

I disagree. the genetic signature we have found in real Indo_Iranians so far differ from CW in having little to none EEF.

It looks more like CWC and Indo_Iranians might share one common ancestor in a prior culture.
 
I disagree. the genetic signature we have found in real Indo_Iranians so far differ from CW in having little to none EEF.

It looks more like CWC and Indo_Iranians might share one common ancestor in a prior culture.

I think that may be true. I do wonder, as Bicicleur pointed out, about the difference in yDna. It might be, I suppose, that there is R1a in the steppe west of the Yamnaya samples we have so far. Or, the common ancestor(s) may have come from elsewhere.
 
I think that may be true. I do wonder, as Bicicleur pointed out, about the difference in yDna. It might be, I suppose, that there is R1a in the steppe west of the Yamnaya samples we have so far. Or, the common ancestor(s) may have come from elsewhere.

tbh looking at the aDNA of Steppe Iranics who do have additional Iran_CHL_Neo DNA. I have a theory this somewhere else could be closer to the Caucasus, maybe even in the Caucasus or Northeast Iran/Central Asia. There were some users with the idea that R1a and R1b might turn up in Maykop or Layla Tepe culture.
 
Last edited:
I agree that it seems like a dead end, the Andronovo horizon as a whole perhaps, which is ironic given the time and energy that was expended trying to create fits for India using them.

Rumors are that Arkaim is a popular pilgrimage site for Russian neopagans; hippie-nazis from all around the country travel there to hold summer solstices celebrations. They even have their very own racist high priestess in the vein of Savitri Devi & Blavatsky whose name eludes me right now. She declared Arkaim to be the 'city of Aryan superiority and racial purity' or some such.

Apparently the site once held sign that read 'Birthplace of Zarathustra', whom the neopagans saw as a 'Russian warrior monk' :LOL:

EDIT: found the source - http://legacy.earlham.edu/~schwael/Arkaim.pdf
 
Last edited:
Rumors are that Arkaim is a popular pilgrimage site for Russian neopagans; hippie-nazis from all around the country travel there to hold summer solstices celebrations. They even have their very own racist high priestess in the vein of Savitri Devi & Blavatsky whose name eludes me right now. She declared Arkaim to be the 'city of Aryan superiority and racial purity' or some such.

Apparently the site once held sign that read 'Birthplace of Zarathustra', whom the neopagans saw as a 'Russian warrior monk' :LOL:

is this an atempt to minimise Sintashta ?
is David Anthony a hippie-nazi ?
 
is this an atempt to minimise Sintashta ?

I think genetic evidence has already done that for me. Mind you, considering that Sintashta sticks out like a sore thumb on the steppe due to its comparative development I did not actually expect that.

This is amusing to me, because a great many people had high hopes when it comes that particular culture. The above is merely one of the absurdest examples thereof.

is David Anthony a hippie-nazi ?

I don't know, but you don't have to be a hippie-nazi to be wrong.
 
I think genetic evidence has already done that for me. Mind you, considering that Sintashta sticks out like a sore thumb on the steppe due to its comparative development I did not actually expect that.

This is amusing to me, because a great many people had high hopes when it comes that particular culture. The above is merely one of the absurdest examples thereof.



I don't know, but you don't have to be a hippie-nazi to be wrong.

as I pointed out above, Y-DNA and autosomal point out in a different direction in this case, so I don't want to take quick decisions here

maybe this will complicate things even more, still have to read this :

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep43950

[h=1]Diverse origin of mitochondrial lineages in Iron Age Black Sea Scythians[/h]
 
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/03/07/phenotype-snps-for-scythians-and-sarmatians/

I find it dificult to make a synthesis of all this.

[h=1]Phenotype SNPs for Scythians and Sarmatians[/h]Posted on March 7, 2017 by Genetiker Leave a comment
Below are derived allele counts and total numbers of reads for SNPs that have a large effect on phenotype for eight Scythian and Sarmatian genomes. Nonzero derived allele counts are in bold. Note that small derived allele counts may be due to DNA damage.
ASIP, rs6058017, Veddoid brown skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 2/2
EDAR, rs3827760, Mongoloid teeth, hair, etc.
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 4/4
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 2/6
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 3/3
IS2 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 15/34
IRF4, rs12203592, light hair and eyes, freckling
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/3
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/20
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/3
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 3/32
KITLG, rs12821256, blond hair
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/10
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 1/22
KITLG, rs642742, Veddoid brown skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 4/4
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 1/2
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 14/15
MC1R, rs1110400, red hair
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/11
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/11
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/6
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/35
MC1R, rs11547464, red hair
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/2
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/11
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 1/15
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/7
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/35
MC1R, rs1805005, blond hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/2
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/3
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/3
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/24
MC1R, rs1805006, red hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/7
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/15
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/5
IS2 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 1/35
MC1R, rs1805007, red hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/11
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/13
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/7
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/37
MC1R, rs1805008, red hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/7
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/9
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/5
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 1/33
MC1R, rs1805009, red hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/16
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/22
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/6
IS2 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/32
MCM6, rs182549, ability to digest milk
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/2
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/1
MCM6, rs4988235, ability to digest milk
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/9
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/18
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 4/32
OCA2, rs1800407, green or hazel eyes
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/5
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/11
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/30
OCA2, rs1800414, Mongoloid light skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/9
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/21
OCA2/HERC2, rs12913832, blue eyes
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/4
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 8/10
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 2/4
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 4/12
SLC24A5, rs1426654, Caucasoid light skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 4/4
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 25/26
SLC45A2, rs16891982, Caucasoid light skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 4/4
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 6/6
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/25
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/2
IS2 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 1/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 3/20
TYR, rs1042602, light skin, absence of freckles
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 7/15
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/3
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 5/21
TYR, rs1393350, blond hair, blue eyes
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/2
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/16
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/3
TYRP1, rs2733831, light hair and eyes
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
 
Rumors are that Arkaim is a popular pilgrimage site for Russian neopagans; hippie-nazis from all around the country travel there to hold summer solstices celebrations. They even have their very own racist high priestess in the vein of Savitri Devi & Blavatsky whose name eludes me right now. She declared Arkaim to be the 'city of Aryan superiority and racial purity' or some such.

Apparently the site once held sign that read 'Birthplace of Zarathustra', whom the neopagans saw as a 'Russian warrior monk' :LOL:

EDIT: found the source - http://legacy.earlham.edu/~schwael/Arkaim.pdf

I figured there was something like this behind the obsession to show descent everywhere from Sintashta and then back to Corded Ware and Eastern Europe. I just didn't know some of it was this crazy. It reminds me of the milk drinking Neo-nazis here: that's a hoot too. I really think someone should put up posters of all the milk drinking populations of the world, as I suggested here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...their-signature-drink?highlight=milk+drinking

Maybe I wouldn't say "hippie" Nazis, although I understand why you chose that word. It's more "druggie" Nazis, perhaps? That also might explain how much delight there is in some quarters over the fact that the Indo-Europeans consumed and traded cannabis. I don't see as much delight about some of their perhaps "homo-erotic" traditions. Still, maybe "hippie-Nazis" is best. Lots of promiscuity I'm sure at those gatherings, virtual petri dishes of venereal diseases, like Woodstock and Haight-Ashbury.

Amazing, this is what they're replacing Christianity with, is it? Just like Nazism etc. That "Jewish" religion, with it's Semitic demi-god and Apostles and ten commandments just has to go. :)
 
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/03/07/phenotype-snps-for-scythians-and-sarmatians/

I find it dificult to make a synthesis of all this.

Phenotype SNPs for Scythians and Sarmatians

Posted on March 7, 2017 by Genetiker Leave a comment
Below are derived allele counts and total numbers of reads for SNPs that have a large effect on phenotype for eight Scythian and Sarmatian genomes. Nonzero derived allele counts are in bold. Note that small derived allele counts may be due to DNA damage.
ASIP, rs6058017, Veddoid brown skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 2/2
EDAR, rs3827760, Mongoloid teeth, hair, etc.
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 4/4
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 2/6
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 3/3
IS2 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 15/34
IRF4, rs12203592, light hair and eyes, freckling
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/3
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/20
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/3
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 3/32
KITLG, rs12821256, blond hair
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/10
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 1/22
KITLG, rs642742, Veddoid brown skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 4/4
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 1/2
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 14/15
MC1R, rs1110400, red hair
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/11
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/11
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/6
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/35
MC1R, rs11547464, red hair
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/2
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/11
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 1/15
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/7
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/35
MC1R, rs1805005, blond hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/2
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/3
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/3
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/24
MC1R, rs1805006, red hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/7
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/15
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/5
IS2 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 1/35
MC1R, rs1805007, red hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/11
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/13
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/7
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/37
MC1R, rs1805008, red hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/7
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/9
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/5
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 1/33
MC1R, rs1805009, red hair, fair skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/16
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/22
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/6
IS2 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/32
MCM6, rs182549, ability to digest milk
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/2
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/1
MCM6, rs4988235, ability to digest milk
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/9
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/18
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 4/32
OCA2, rs1800407, green or hazel eyes
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/5
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/11
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/30
OCA2, rs1800414, Mongoloid light skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/9
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 0/21
OCA2/HERC2, rs12913832, blue eyes
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/4
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 8/10
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 2/4
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 4/12
SLC24A5, rs1426654, Caucasoid light skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 4/4
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 25/26
SLC45A2, rs16891982, Caucasoid light skin
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 4/4
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 6/6
I0576 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/1
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/25
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/2
IS2 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 1/1
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 3/20
TYR, rs1042602, light skin, absence of freckles
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 7/15
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/3
Ze6 Eastern Zevakino-Chilikta 900–600 5/21
TYR, rs1393350, blond hair, blue eyes
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0575 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/2
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1
I0577 Eastern Aldy-Bel 700–500 0/2
Ι0562 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/16
I0563 Eastern Pazyryk 400–200 0/3
TYRP1, rs2733831, light hair and eyes
Sample Region Culture Date BC D/T
I0574 Western Early Sarmatian 500–100 0/1

I'm sorry, Bicicleur, I just think this kind of stuff confuses without illuminating, except perhaps for the EDAR stuff, which shouldn't be a surprise given the Siberian like/East Asian like admixture, whatever you want to call it.

You can't call a sample or a modern human's pigmentation based on individual derived snps. Pigmentation is a multi-genetic trait. You'd have to run each sample's total collection of them through one of the forensic programs to get a prediction. Has Genetiker done that? Until then, even if one assumes the calls are correct, they're not going to tell us their predicted coloring.

Just one example: he lists TYR rs1393350 as coding for blonde hair, blue eyes. Yes, it's a depigmentation snp in derived status. I carry it, in fact, but I have chestnut hair and brown eyes.

As for OCA2 snps connected to blue eye color, on some I'm ancestral, on some derived, and on some heterogeneous.

See what I mean?

If the eastern ones were closest to Kets, maybe like this:

Picture22.jpg



If the western ones were closest to Lezghins, Azeris, etc., maybe like this:
4dc9ce2c17db1c64b19c3633ce04fb10.jpg


Adyghe3.jpg


Not mounted Scandinavians...
 
I'm sorry, Bicicleur, I just think this kind of stuff confuses without illuminating, except perhaps for the EDAR stuff, which shouldn't be a surprise given the Siberian like/East Asian like admixture, whatever you want to call it.

You can't call a sample or a modern human's pigmentation based on individual derived snps. Pigmentation is a multi-genetic trait. You'd have to run each sample's total collection of them through one of the forensic programs to get a prediction. Has Genetiker done that? Until then, even if one assumes the calls are correct, they're not going to tell us their predicted coloring.

Just one example: he lists TYR rs1393350 as coding for blonde hair, blue eyes. Yes, it's a depigmentation snp in derived status. I carry it, in fact, but I have chestnut hair and brown eyes.

As for OCA2 snps connected to blue eye color, on some I'm ancestral, on some derived, and on some heterogeneous.

See what I mean?

that is what I tought
the final look is influenced by a multitude of genes
if I understand correct, you say forensic programs exist based on the total collection of genes
but has such program ever been used for any anciant DNA sample?
if the DNA is incomplete, I guess you'll get skewed results
 

This thread has been viewed 35361 times.

Back
Top