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Thread: Genetics of the Greek Peleponessus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxxter View Post
    Everybody are racist Angela, racism is everywhere.
    You just earned yourself another infraction for this insolent and disruptive display of childishness.
    There can be no covenants between men and lions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    You just earned yourself another infraction for this insolent and disruptive display of childishness.
    This is what has happened in this week since my very first post in this forum.

    -I commented to a Hellene LATGAL, because of non-facts comments from his side. - I got a private message describing this as: "hate speech"(obviously it was no "hate speech" to cluster Albanians with Hellenes and Italians by him or that other Albanian guy!), and an infraction which supposedly is something leading to terminal ban i guess. And so it will be - that is very clear, as it is very clear what kind of people you are.

    -I got a second(or third) infraction after my second answer to another Albanian, who was referring to me.

    -Angela then called me racist and "t-roll". Which is a hypocritical comment. I then answered and stated the fact that racism is in everybody. Racism are feelings and proceedings between the races among other things in this life.

    -Then, i got another one of these infractions by Jovalis, calling MY comment to Angelas comment insolent! And what is this supposed to result in the end :) ? I stop here, i thought i would contribute in this forum but, no.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baxxter View Post
    This is what has happened in this week since my very first post in this forum.

    -I commented to a Hellene LATGAL, because of non-facts comments from his side. - I got a private message describing this as: "hate speech"(obviously it was no "hate speech" to cluster Albanians with Hellenes and Italians by him or that other Albanian guy!), and an infraction which supposedly is something leading to terminal ban i guess. And so it will be - that is very clear, as it is very clear what kind of people you are.

    -I got a second(or third) infraction after my second answer to another Albanian, who was referring to me.

    -Angela then called me racist and "t-roll". Which is a hypocritical comment. I then answered and stated the fact that racism is in everybody. Racism are feelings and proceedings between the races among other things in this life.

    -Then, i got another one of these infractions by Jovalis, calling MY comment to Angelas comment insolent! And what is this supposed to result in the end :) ? I stop here, i thought i would contribute in this forum but, no.
    Uuu, such darkness. Was it caused by loneliness since childhood?

    And please don't go. Stay with us other kids to play and "contribute".

    Check this threads https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...NA-on-GEDmatch and https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...Age-Balkan-DNA

    It seems that those Cretans you don't consider Hellenic represent the population to the ancient Hellenes you admire. On the other hand, we barbarians (you and me together) plot quite close to the Bronze Age Dalmatian sample, while the Cretans are quite close to even the Iron Age Thracian.

    As a Thessalian, don't you realize that by considering Albanians non-Euro you're dragging yourselves along with us to another hypothetical homeland? Those Pontians and Cretans don't seem that wrong for calling you Vlachs or Albanians as after all Thessaly was the "center of Vlachs" plus a substantial Albanian admixture.

    Nevertheless, it is everyone's right to choose the nations he wants to belong to and I don't blame you, the country of Homer and the Iliad is a pretty strong temptation.

    So come on now, long lost brother, let's put an end to the enmity and embrace the common origin.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^ Let's try to move on from him, he'll just get more infuriated and create a new account
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    ^^ Let's try to move on from him, he'll just get more infuriated and create a new account
    Your signature need the Enigma machine to be decoded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    I hope we can see the following strangely-buried person’s DNA next time.(The others supine type unlike bellbeaker)

    Of course, he would be heavily mixed with Steppe like Bellbeaker, but not origin of Greek bronze.
    Moreover, I posted horse burial at Greek Bronze and their skull types which is related to cromagnon.
    So the next research result would be same as scythian paper; all roads lead to pontic steppe.

    However, this burial type is very important, b/c I think he shows his identity. You can see a similarity between altai petroglyph in the link and the burial. The pertroglyph means “sky.” A chinese character, 天 Tian (means sky) originated in this altai petroglyph.

    The petroglyph is exetremly important, b/c it is connected to mesoamerica and Hindu, china bronze, now ancient Greek.
    Whatever the result comes, I anticipate to seeing a future research to comprehensively cover china bronze and mesoamerica regarding PIE origin.


    Fig 4. The warrior burials at grave circle B at Mycenae, with Avila type II spearheads.
    https://adnaera.com/2018/11/17/the-b...age-in-europe/

    Altai petroglyph
    https://cogniarchae.com/2016/11/06/t...headed-figure/

    origin of

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A9

    P.s:
    looks like the above black one also appears in IVC 2,000bc with chariot.https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...mnayan-decline (post 4)
    I just forgot "zeus." Is this guy Zeus? So does PIE word Dyeus originate in altai?

    worship of a sky god,[4] *Dyḗus Ph2tḗr (lit. "sky father"; > Vedic Sanskrit Dyáuṣ Pitṛ́, Ancient Greek Ζεύς (πατήρ) / Zeus (patēr)), vocative *dyeu ph2ter (> Latin Iūpiter, Illyrian Deipaturos)[note 2]
    chinese character Dì (帝,"Lord") came from old chinese Dees, which originated in Deus as I remember.

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    see also symbols on the face of ancient Greek and modern indian in the following link:




    https://cogniarchae.com/2016/11/06/t...headed-figure/

    and okunevo two symbols at the bottom of pottery.



    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig9_275275447
    Last edited by johen; 02-03-19 at 22:39.

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    Hello :) !

    There is no free speech on this site, and the temporary ban was done for ridiculous reasons. Also i could not quote "Nik".

    First of all i want to say that, indeed the topics i wrote in the first post are not exactly relevant themes of thread. This is however my last comment in this thread. It is not an answer to "Nik"(as i don't do conversations with Albanians) but generally comments i share with anybody here. I am clarifying my own comments, in aspect to Nik's comment, and adding too.

    "Uuu, such darkness."? Darkness, lightness....? Things of this earth, yes thank you for the info. Does Nik know what 2+2 is(?).

    When i said that Pontiacs/Minor Asians and Cretans calls us northern Hellenes "Albanians"(and this is one funny example), i meant that this is done OVER THE INTERNET(Youtube etc, just as Nik does) XD ! If we tell them what they ARE, OVER THE NET, they throw at us(except Albanians) also Slavic, Romance, and also Vlachs(add for example "you piece of shit...Vlach" in front ). I have never in real, personally encountered this, and if that would happen it would be nothing more then embarrassment for them, calling Hellenes/Europeans Albanians . Slavic is irrelevant whatsoever as well. About Vlach and Romance(both relevant i think), referring to blanket term Wallachians, is of course not an insult term. Now we don't go around calling ourselves "Wallachians", however it would not be so incorrect term after all though for us northern Hellenes.

    Now, the thing in Hellas is that a Romanian/Hellenic term as Wallachian, has ALSO been "referred" as a SLANG-word for something like a "farmer"(i think? not of interest) - which is incorrect. This "farmer slang"(which is of course not synonymous with the actual word Wallachian(Vlachos)) is most likely created by the Minor Asians/Cretans etc, because of their minor complex when we tell them this and that. As a third-world worthless non-productive race(who don't understand that a farmer is one for example who brings milk to their table, among other food ) they considering a farmer most likely something "bad"(?). While farming is a part of the European race. So, when they for example throw the "Wallachian" term to Hellenes, we never know if they mean the blanket term thing, or farmer . Either way it is not an insult of course, whether one is a farmer or not. This is something every Hellene knows. Also, even northern Hellenes actually use this word as slang word sometimes thrown to each other and others, even-though the meaning is totally irrelevant. I associated with a Minor Asian once. When he found out i told one person in real, turk-seed, he throw to me that this is what the "Wallachians" say to the Minor Asians once. He also told me lately that i am Swedish(! I am born and grown up in Sweden) first and then Hellenic as well . This is an example of their reaction. I actually meet one person who was partly Minor Asian and he said, to a colleague of mine, that she might as well call him a Turk(eventhough as said he ha also had Hellenic heritage) as well. So i have seen 1-2 examples of this ethnicities so far who actually accept what they are and say it.

    It is also funny that Nik directs his comments to Thessalians exclusively . Nik, you are an Albanian after all, and that alone is an explanation enough regarding your behavior/mentality.

    I don't understand exactly why Nik mentioned Homer but here it goes. Homer was a Hellene. It is said that he was born in Chios or Ionia. Ionia is Minor Asia and that is not Hellas. Minor Asia was a colony with Hellenes who came from Hellas. In ancient times Hellenes went both west(all the way to south France), south(To Egypt, see Alexandria(city with Hellenic name) and pyramids which are Hellenic products) and east towards Middle East(Minor Asia, Black sea Jordan etc). However these Minor Asians/Pontiacs after many many years are not Hellenes, they are mixed with Turks/Armenians etc. Another fact regarding their heritage is that Hellenes/(Europeans) did not FLEE when they where attacked in Hellas in the past wars. Minor Asians and Pontiacs DID flee when the Turks invaded their colonies, and they fled to Hellas around 1922(The Asia Minor Catastrophe).

    Nik seems to like or want to be a Hellene judging by his comments, and i did wonder why he had a Hoplite as a profile-pic .

    Last but not least. I will answer this accordingly to your comment Nik: You DON'T have the right too choose the nation you want to belong too, whether it be Switzerland or Hellas. You cluster with Georgians etc and i close by adding that south Albania was also once a Hellenic territory.
    Last edited by Baxxter; 11-03-19 at 07:40.

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    Population transfer of refugees from Turkey, as a result of losing the Greek-Turkish war (1919-1922), was estimated for most of the Peloponnese at from 0 - 25 people per thousand of indigenous population by Richard Clogg in his "A Concise History of Greece".
    Last edited by Pericles; 14-03-19 at 00:05.

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    That was 0-25 people per thousand of the then current population of the Peloponnese.
    Last edited by Pericles; 14-03-19 at 00:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    Zeus = Indra = chinese Di(lord)

    The petroglyph is exetremly important, b/c it is connected to mesoamerica and Hindu, china bronze, now ancient Greek.



    Fig 4. The warrior burials at grave circle B at Mycenae, with Avila type II spearheads.
    https://adnaera.com/2018/11/17/the-b...age-in-europe/

    Altai petroglyph
    https://cogniarchae.com/2016/11/06/t...headed-figure/

    origin of

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A9

    P.s:
    looks like the above black one also appears in IVC 2,000bc with chariot.https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...mnayan-decline (post 4)
    looks like the ancient Greek royal and scythian royal had the same philosophy of altai:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....glyph&p=555322



    A Scythian warrior skeleton in the Cherkasy Oblast Regional Studies Museum.



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    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--...o/corinth2.png
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N...o/corinth3.png
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q...o/corinth4.png
    Physical anthropology/taxonomy: Slavs/Avars of Peloponnese were mediterraean.


    I don't necessarily believe this but it deserves some attention. With that being said I have changed my opinion I no longer believe today's Pelopennesians are majority Albanians and Slavs.

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    ok, but why do most albanians score high for the peloponnese at 23andme?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuxx View Post
    ok, but why do most albanians score high for the peloponnese at 23andme?
    Because they are descended from ancient Balkanites without drasticially different (eg. proto-Slavic) input in them.
    Plotting close has many different interpretations. A half British and half Japenesse will end plotting somewhere in central Asia.
    Another example is that Peloponessians are closer to Abruzzes than to Albanians or Sicilians (I am not sure but they usually score higher Abruzze) or that Albanians are closer to Thesslians than to Peloponessians.
    Albanian population of Peloponesse in 19th century was 10% to 15%, in 15th century according to Ottoman defter it was 30% to 35% (majority was Greek even in 15th century).

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    I don't know why it seems so surprising, but standard analyses are clear: Albanians are a subset of Greek genetic variation, however it happened.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuxx View Post
    ok, but why do most albanians score high for the peloponnese at 23andme?
    because the Venetians placed many in the pelopennse with their families until 1500 when these stradiotti where not welcomed anymore after the battle of Fornovo

    the stradiotti would take their wife and children wherever they went ...............I cannot recall stradiotti in north italy except for that battle or stopping the ottoman raids in eastern friuli

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratioti

    at battle of Fornovo the Albanians preferred to go for the french baggage train instead of capturing the french king as the venetian foot tried to do.......venetians saw them as unreliable and desided to cut ties with these albanians

    these Stradiotti Albanians then served under the king of naples and much later the ( a ) french king
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    Genetics of the Greek Peleponessus

    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    because the Venetians placed many in the pelopennse with their families until 1500 when these stradiotti where not welcomed anymore after the battle of Fornovo

    the stradiotti would take their wife and children wherever they went ...............I cannot recall stradiotti in north italy except for that battle or stopping the ottoman raids in eastern friuli

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratioti

    at battle of Fornovo the Albanians preferred to go for the french baggage train instead of capturing the french king as the venetian foot tried to do.......venetians saw them as unreliable and desided to cut ties with these albanians

    these Stradiotti Albanians then served under the king of naples and much later the ( a ) french king
    Ridiculous, so they were good for France but not for Venice. There were 200-300 Stradiotes and the Italian League had an army of 20,000 men while French were 10,000 ....this comes from the book let’s blame the emigrants. Read more and you will find the main reasons why this Battle was a draw.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nbx2YO6kbSs




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    Last edited by blevins13; 21-02-20 at 20:54.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    Ridiculous, so they were good for France but not for Venice. There were 200-300 Stradiotes and the Italian League had an army of 20,000 men while French were 10,000 ....this comes from the book let’s blame the emigrants. Read more and you will find the main reasons why this Battle was a draw.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nbx2YO6kbSs




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    Really ...are you serious......you rely on u-tube to give you historical detail , OMG

    if you do not want to read the 3 volume history books by Bembo which covers this period.

    at least read

    Campaign Series ( Osprey pubs ) Fornovo 1495 by David Nicolle (PhD )

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    It's highly unlikely that any similarity between Albanians and Greeks rests solely or even in a substantial way on any movements in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. You need big migrations for big change.

    Don't we know that yet?

    There was also no reason to bring in the ill-fated battle of Fornovo and one view of it except to t-roll Albanians. Cut it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    Really ...are you serious......you rely on u-tube to give you historical detail , OMG

    if you do not want to read the 3 volume history books by Bembo which covers this period.

    at least read

    Campaign Series ( Osprey pubs ) Fornovo 1495 by David Nicolle (PhD )
    So by reading all this you came to the conclusion that the 200 stradiotes are to blame for the draw.... while the 20,000 Italians did what against the 10,000 French after the baggage affair..... please do elaborate extensively the valor of the Italian troops.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's highly unlikely that any similarity between Albanians and Greeks rests solely or even in a substantial way on any movements in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. You need big migrations for big change.

    Don't we know that yet?

    There was also no reason to bring in the ill-fated battle of Fornovo and one view of it except to t-roll Albanians. Cut it out.
    The relation of Albanian to Thessaly is probably related to the large Vlach community, that was present there around 1200.


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    Genetics of the Greek Peleponessus

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's highly unlikely that any similarity between Albanians and Greeks rests solely or even in a substantial way on any movements in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. You need big migrations for big change.

    Don't we know that yet?

    There was also no reason to bring in the ill-fated battle of Fornovo and one view of it except to t-roll Albanians. Cut it out.
    You are right no reason to discuss Fornovo here....in case there is interest for that someone can open a new thread. I believe that there has been a huge migration of Albanians and vllahe toward Greece after Black Death, and there historic reference for that. Being highlanders they were less affected.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vlachia


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    Last edited by blevins13; 22-02-20 at 00:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    You are right no reason to discuss Fornovo here....in case there is interest for that someone can open a new thread. I believe that there has been a huge migration of Albanians and vllahe toward Greece after Black Death, and there historic reference for that. Being highlanders there were less affected.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vlachia


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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    The relation of Albanian to Thessaly is probably related to the large Vlach community, that was present there around 1200.


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    Vlachs diverge genetically from each other. There are group of Vlachs with extremely high Slavic R1a.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's highly unlikely that any similarity between Albanians and Greeks rests solely or even in a substantial way on any movements in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. You need big migrations for big change.

    Don't we know that yet?

    There was also no reason to bring in the ill-fated battle of Fornovo and one view of it except to t-roll Albanians. Cut it out.
    I disagree with you that there was no substantial movements of any people in the middle-ages or renaissance period in Europe or the world

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Vlachs diverge genetically from each other. There are group of Vlachs with extremely high Slavic R1a.
    Not any Vlachs but these ones

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vlachia



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