Genetics of the Greek Peleponessus

[matadworf]

It is.
-- Here is one map showing Greece closer to Anatolia (Turkey/TR) than Italy. So it depends on the composition and calculation.
View attachment 9278
Link:https://image.ibb.co/jZ2QDk/main_qimg_5d65828c54a935296eb53d78bd5fbb19_c.jpg

The map your referencing has Greeks overlapping with Italians (not sure of the region), Albanians, Bulgarians but honestly it just looks really scrambled.

 

[cybernautic]

The extreme similarity of the people of the Peloponnese to "Italians" means Sicilians. at least if you're talking about actual "overlap". They compared the people of the Peloponnese with Sicilians, Tuscans, and Northern Italians, among others. Those groups are indeed on a cline, but the overlap is between the Peloponnese and Sicilians, not Peloponnese and Tuscans, and certainly not Peloponnese and Northern Italians.

My goodness; does no one study graphs and stats?

View attachment 8550

Click to enlarge.

The aqua is Tuscan, the green Sicilian (not Abuzzese or Campanian, although I wish they'd done it), and the red the Peloponnese, not Crete or the islands or Anatolia.

Are they identical? No, they're not, but they're pretty darn close. What else would you expect for goodness sakes, when so much of Magna Graecia was settled from there?

Exactly this

What you fail to understand or refuse to understand is that this particular paper had only one purpose, and that was to refute the speculations of the 19th century racists that the ancient Greeks were "Nordics", and that later Greeks were the product of massive migrations from both "Slavic" countries and the Near East. It was not to determine the ethnic make-up of Albanians or their impact on Greece

Precisely^

Look, I know it's sticking in the craw of some Balkanites that the Mycenaeans, and no doubt the classical Greeks, who gave so much to Europe and indeed the world are closer genetically even to mainland Greeks than they are to people from further north in the Balkans, but it is what it is, and you just look ridiculous trying to desperately deny it

Yes,bet unfortunately alot of this kind fora are disproportionaly filled with the sort of morons you describe
here who support this crap in contrast to people like you with a reasonable view.

 

[Beema]

What is Gaussian method? Is that part of gedmatch ? How do I access that ?

 

[Baxxter]

Err yes, some Italian populations/samples seem to be a bit closer to some Greek ones than other Italian ones and some Greek ones seem to be a bit closer to some Italian populations than some Greek ones. Mainland Greece + Tuscany (+ Albania) vs the Aegean and South Italy/Sicily. It's probably due to greater later steppe ancestry in the former and greater near eastern ancestry in the latter added to the Neolithic base.

"Mainland Greece"? There is Northern Hellas and South Hellas. North Hellas is Thessaly, Macedonia, Epirus and Thrace and South is Peloponnese. In some extent i would include the regions down to about Lamia though as well as to what we Northern Hellenes cluster with then people with heritage
from Attica/Athens and Peloponnese/south Aegean isles. So Northern Hellenes cluster with Tuscans of Central Italy specifically. Albanians do not cluster with neither cause they are not Euros. My guess is you are Peloponnese(?).

The next subject is also relevant to the subject in a political way. In Italy there is various autonomous parties, for example the party Lega Nord. In Hellas there is no autonomous party for Northern Hellas, although there should be. The current situation is a Hellas which includes Crete, which is not even Hellas. So except Cretans, there are the Minor Asians(or "Anatolian Greeks"), Pontiacs, and Cretans having privilege(!) to vote for the whole Hellas. So not only dont we have a separation from Lamia and upwards North Hellas from South Hellas but we also have this "turk-seeds"(as we call them) having privilege to vote for Hellas.

 

[Archetype0ne]

"Mainland Greece"? There is Northern Hellas and South Hellas. North Hellas is Thessaly, Macedonia, Epirus and Thrace and South is Peloponnese. In some extent i would include the regions down to about Lamia though as well as to what we Northern Hellenes cluster with then people with heritage
from Attica/Athens and Peloponnese/south Aegean isles. So Northern Hellenes cluster with Tuscans of Central Italy specifically. Albanians do not cluster with neither cause they are not Euros. My guess is you are Peloponnese(?).

The next subject is also relevant to the subject in a political way. In Italy there is various autonomous parties, for example the party Lega Nord. In Hellas there is no autonomous party for Northern Hellas, although there should be. The current situation is a Hellas which includes Crete, which is not even Hellas. So except Cretans, there are the Minor Asians(or "Anatolian Greeks"), Pontiacs, and Cretans having privilege(!) to vote for the whole Hellas. So not only dont we have a separation from Lamia and upwards North Hellas from South Hellas but we also have this "turk-seeds"(as we call them) having privilege to vote for Hellas.

Do you know what Evropa means in ancient Greek?

Go find out then tell me who is "Evro" and who is not.

Edit to point out that you are a blatant Racist. You are hating the culture you claim you descend from. For that I pity you.

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

Do you know what Evropa means in ancient Greek?

Go find out then tell me who is "Evro" and who is not.

Edit to point out that you are a blatant Racist. You are hating the culture you claim you descend from. For that I pity you.

He can't be racist1 He is from Greece!

 

[Baxxter]

Do you know what Evropa means in ancient Greek?

Go find out then tell me who is "Evro" and who is not.

Edit to point out that you are a blatant Racist. You are hating the culture you claim you descend from. For that I pity you.

What? . I will repeat it again, seems so funny to see the reaction/comments(obviously you seem to like hanging on threads with Greek in it) of the Albanians in this forum. And how was my post clicked "negative", the report triangle(?) or what. Anyway, Albanians are not euros. Over and out.

 

[Angela]

There is no t-rolling of other nationalities or sub-nationalities permitted here, and that applies to EVERYONE.

Get back to discussing the science of the paper, if you have the capacity. Otherwise, go elsewhere.

 

[Nik]

What? . I will repeat it again, seems so funny to see the reaction/comments(obviously you seem to like hanging on threads with Greek in it) of the Albanians in this forum. And how was my post clicked "negative", the report triangle(?) or what. Anyway, Albanians are not euros. Over and out.

A Thessalian (Vlach-Albanian mix) calls Albanians not European?

Post your picture on the anthropological section and lets see how Lebanese you look compared to your compatriots.

 

[Angela]

A Thessalian (Vlach-Albanian mix) calls Albanians not European?

Post your picture on the anthropological section and lets see how Lebanese you look compared to your compatriots.

I get it, Nik, but don't let him goad you into breaking the rules. He already got an infraction, and he'll get more if he continues to break the rules.

 

[Nik]

I get it, Nik, but don't let him goad you into breaking the rules. He already got an infraction, and he'll get more if he continues to break the rules.

You're right. I apologize for that. I guess he found me in a moment of weakness.

 

[Angela]

You're right. I apologize for that. I guess he found me in a moment of weakness.

Believe me, I understand.

 

[johen]

I hope we can see the following strangely-buried person’s DNA next time.(The others supine type unlike bellbeaker)

Of course, he would be heavily mixed with Steppe like Bellbeaker, but not origin of Greek bronze.
Moreover, I posted horse burial at Greek Bronze and their skull types which is related to cromagnon.
So the next research result would be same as scythian paper; all roads lead to pontic steppe.

However, this burial type is very important, b/c I think he shows his identity. You can see a similarity between altai petroglyph in the link and the burial. The pertroglyph means “sky.” A chinese character, 天 Tian (means sky) originated in this altai petroglyph.

The petroglyph is exetremly important, b/c it is connected to mesoamerica and Hindu, china bronze, now ancient Greek.
Whatever the result comes, I anticipate to seeing a future research to comprehensively cover china bronze and mesoamerica regarding PIE origin.

Fig 4. The warrior burials at grave circle B at Mycenae, with Avila type II spearheads.
https://adnaera.com/2018/11/17/the-beginnings-of-the-bronze-age-in-europe/

Altai petroglyph
https://cogniarchae.com/2016/11/06/the-great-riddle-of-a-seven-headed-figure/

origin of 天

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/天

P.s:
looks like the above black one also appears in IVC 2,000bc with chariot.https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/37973-Yamnayan-decline (post 4)

 

[Georgewalley]

What? . I will repeat it again, seems so funny to see the reaction/comments(obviously you seem to like hanging on threads with Greek in it) of the Albanians in this forum. And how was my post clicked "negative", the report triangle(?) or what. Anyway, Albanians are not euros. Over and out.

Tosk Albanians, Epirotes, Thessalians fall in the same genetic cluster. The main difference you speak a different language and was raised by different cultural, religious customs.

Random Albanian Eurogenes K13 result:


Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Greek_Thessaly	4.51
2	Tuscan	7.31
3	West_Sicilian	7.89
4	Italian_Abruzzo	8.88
5	Central_Greek	9.26
6	East_Sicilian	9.74
7	Bulgarian	10.7
8	Ashkenazi	11.23
9	North_Italian	11.53
10	South_Italian	12.22
11	Romanian	12.31
12	Serbian	15.94
13	Italian_Jewish	16.83
14	Algerian_Jewish	16.84
15	Sephardic_Jewish	17.47
16	Portuguese	19.4
17	Spanish_Extremadura	19.73
18	Spanish_Galicia	20.52
19	Spanish_Murcia	20.78
20	Spanish_Andalucia	20.86

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#		Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
1		66.9%	Greek_Thessaly	+	33.1%	Tuscan	@	3.12
2		83.9%	West_Sicilian	+	16.1%	Estonian_Polish	@	3.18
3		81.8%	West_Sicilian	+	18.2%	Ukrainian	@	3.23
4		85.7%	West_Sicilian	+	14.3%	Lithuanian	@	3.26
5		87%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13%	Spanish_Valencia	@	3.27
6		78.1%	Greek_Thessaly	+	21.9%	North_Italian	@	3.28
7		84.2%	West_Sicilian	+	15.8%	Belorussian	@	3.3
8		83.2%	West_Sicilian	+	16.8%	Southwest_Russian	@	3.31
9		87%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13%	Spanish_Murcia	@	3.32
10		89.3%	Greek_Thessaly	+	10.7%	Spanish_Aragon	@	3.36
11		87.3%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.7%	Spanish_Andalucia	@	3.37
12		84%	West_Sicilian	+	16%	Russian_Smolensk	@	3.4
13		86.6%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13.4%	Portuguese	@	3.4
14		87.9%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.1%	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon	@	3.43
15		77.6%	West_Sicilian	+	22.4%	Croatian	@	3.44
16		88.5%	Greek_Thessaly	+	11.5%	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha	@	3.45
17		87%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13%	Spanish_Extremadura	@	3.45
18		84.6%	West_Sicilian	+	15.4%	Kargopol_Russian	@	3.46
19		85.6%	West_Sicilian	+	14.4%	Estonian	@	3.46
20		58.8%	West_Sicilian	+	41.2%	Bulgarian	@	3.47

#	Population	Percent
1	East_Med	26.13
2	West_Med	22.44
3	North_Atlantic	21.4
4	Baltic	15.44
5	West_Asian	8.22
6	Red_Sea	3.48
7	Siberian	0.97
8	Sub-Saharan	0.6
9	Oceanian	0.56
10	Amerindian	0.37
11	Northeast_African	0.32
12	East_Asian	0.07

 

[LABERIA]

Tosk Albanians, Epirotes, Thessalians fall in the same genetic cluster. The main difference you speak a different language and was raised by different cultural, religious customs.

Random Albanian Eurogenes K13 result:


Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Greek_Thessaly	4.51
2	Tuscan	7.31
3	West_Sicilian	7.89
4	Italian_Abruzzo	8.88
5	Central_Greek	9.26
6	East_Sicilian	9.74
7	Bulgarian	10.7
8	Ashkenazi	11.23
9	North_Italian	11.53
10	South_Italian	12.22
11	Romanian	12.31
12	Serbian	15.94
13	Italian_Jewish	16.83
14	Algerian_Jewish	16.84
15	Sephardic_Jewish	17.47
16	Portuguese	19.4
17	Spanish_Extremadura	19.73
18	Spanish_Galicia	20.52
19	Spanish_Murcia	20.78
20	Spanish_Andalucia	20.86

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#		Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
1		66.9%	Greek_Thessaly	+	33.1%	Tuscan	@	3.12
2		83.9%	West_Sicilian	+	16.1%	Estonian_Polish	@	3.18
3		81.8%	West_Sicilian	+	18.2%	Ukrainian	@	3.23
4		85.7%	West_Sicilian	+	14.3%	Lithuanian	@	3.26
5		87%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13%	Spanish_Valencia	@	3.27
6		78.1%	Greek_Thessaly	+	21.9%	North_Italian	@	3.28
7		84.2%	West_Sicilian	+	15.8%	Belorussian	@	3.3
8		83.2%	West_Sicilian	+	16.8%	Southwest_Russian	@	3.31
9		87%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13%	Spanish_Murcia	@	3.32
10		89.3%	Greek_Thessaly	+	10.7%	Spanish_Aragon	@	3.36
11		87.3%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.7%	Spanish_Andalucia	@	3.37
12		84%	West_Sicilian	+	16%	Russian_Smolensk	@	3.4
13		86.6%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13.4%	Portuguese	@	3.4
14		87.9%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.1%	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon	@	3.43
15		77.6%	West_Sicilian	+	22.4%	Croatian	@	3.44
16		88.5%	Greek_Thessaly	+	11.5%	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha	@	3.45
17		87%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13%	Spanish_Extremadura	@	3.45
18		84.6%	West_Sicilian	+	15.4%	Kargopol_Russian	@	3.46
19		85.6%	West_Sicilian	+	14.4%	Estonian	@	3.46
20		58.8%	West_Sicilian	+	41.2%	Bulgarian	@	3.47

#	Population	Percent
1	East_Med	26.13
2	West_Med	22.44
3	North_Atlantic	21.4
4	Baltic	15.44
5	West_Asian	8.22
6	Red_Sea	3.48
7	Siberian	0.97
8	Sub-Saharan	0.6
9	Oceanian	0.56
10	Amerindian	0.37
11	Northeast_African	0.32
12	East_Asian	0.07

I want to correct you something. Does not exist two separate groups, Tosk and Epirote. Until the year 1923, Epir or Toskeria, it`s the same, was a region inhabitated since antiquity by Albanians and a later by a Vlach minority. In year 1912, the Southern part of Epir was invaded by Greece and is still under Greek occupation. For 33 years, the Albanian inhabitants(the Muslims) were killed or expelled from their native land, meanwhile the Christian Albanians and the Vlachs were declared Greeks by the greek Governments. In year 1923 there was an exchange of population between Greece and Turkey. Greece settled in South Epir, the Greek part of Epir, some of these people arrived from Asia. Also, during almost one century, there was an internal migration promoted by Greek state from other regions of Greece in Southern Epir. We are the same people with the natives, meanwhile we have no connection with the newcomers.
For further info read these two papers:

1889-1898
Sami bey Frashëri
Description of Chameria

2002
Miranda Vickers:
The Cham Issue: Albanian National and
Property Claims in Greece

 

[Archetype0ne]

Last step of genocide/cultural assimilation is denying peoples roots. What do you expect from some people.
Some Greeks think they are from another planet, or that Albanians are from the Moon (Only one of them can be true). Some of them probably hating themselves... sad state of affairs.

Book me a ticket for Mars already.

 

[Angela]

Last step of genocide/cultural assimilation is denying peoples roots. What do you expect from some people.
Some Greeks think they are from another planet, or that Albanians are from the Moon (Only one of them can be true). Some of them probably hating themselves... sad state of affairs.

Book me a ticket for Mars already.

You can't go five posts without injecting your political rants and hatred of Greeks.

KEEP YOUR POLITICS OUT OF THIS SITE OR YOU'RE ALL OUT OF HERE.

 

[Baxxter]

A Thessalian (Vlach-Albanian mix) calls Albanians not European?

Post your picture on the anthropological section and lets see how Lebanese you look compared to your compatriots.

. It is considered breaking the rules in this forum to speak the truth, according to Angela, and seeing that the posts flooded here are mostly from your race here i have no further interest in contributing. Oh and btw. Vlachia or Wallachia are regions(and also a Hellenic last name as well) in North Hellas - Thessaly, Macedonia, Epirus, parts in Romania, and also in Serbia etc. Vlach/Wallach is not a race but a blanket term - and of course an European one(But we all already know the answer why YOU would not know that, lack of knowledge or pathetic minor complex ignorance). This is also a term that these Middle Eastern(or turk-seeds as i said before) Greek-speaking races like Pontiacs, Minor Asians and Cretans throw at us Hellenes when we tell THEM the truth. Oh and they also throw in "Albanians" as well. Well known third-world behavior, and they go to history as races not accepting what they are, to keep it short.

 

[Angela]

. It is considered breaking the rules in this forum to speak the truth, according to Angela(South Italian?), and seeing that the posts flooded here are mostly from your race here i have no further interest in contributing. Oh and btw. Vlachia or Wallachia are regions(and also a Hellenic last name as well) in North Hellas - Thessaly, Macedonia, Epirus, parts in Romania, and also in Serbia etc. Vlach/Wallach is not a race but a blanket term - and of course an European one(But we all already know the answer why YOU would not know that, lack of knowledge or pathetic minor complex ignorance). This is also a term that these Middle Eastern(or turk-seeds as i said before) Greek-speaking races like Pontiacs, Minor Asians and Cretans throw at us Hellenes when we tell THEM the truth . Oh and they also throw in "Albanians" as well. Well known third-world behavior, and they go to history as races not accepting what they are, to keep it short.

Sorry. I'm northern Italian and Tuscan, and you're a racist t-roll.

Get out of here.

 

[Baxxter]

Sorry. I'm northern Italian and Tuscan, and you're a racist t-roll.

Get out of here.

Everybody are racist Angela, racism is everywhere.

Is Tuscany(Umbria and Marche too(?) considered north-central Italy, northern or central?