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Thread: Haplogroup nicknames attributed by BritainsDNA

  1. #1
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    Post Haplogroup nicknames attributed by BritainsDNA

    BritainsDNA is the only testing (AFAIK) that ventures to attribute nicknames to haplogroups and common subclades based on ancient ethnic groups, tribes or geographic regions. This can be a hazardous business as it is quite challenging to find a short moniker that accurately describes the origins of an entire branch (or wig) or humanity. The difficulty lies in the fact that top-level haplogroups are extremely old (typically dating from the Ice Age), and subclades are so numerous that one has to choose carefully the right depth to match the expansion of historical ethnic groups. Obviously they didn't put much thought into it as their descriptions are often more farcical than factual. It is not all wrong, but at least half of it should be discarded.

    Below you'll the list of nicknames used by BritainsDNA and my comments in the right column to describe their accuracy and offer a better alternative.


    BritainsDNA SNP name BritainsDNA nickname Critique
    A1b-M13 Nilotic Too restrictive. It's found in many arts of Sub-Saharan Africa, but is most common among the San people of Southern Africa.
    B Pacific Rim Utterly wrong. It's Sub-Saharan African.
    C-M216 Ancient Asian Palaeolithic Eurasian would be more correct, as it is also European (C1a2).
    D2-M55 Jomon Correct
    E1b1b-M123 (formerly E-M34) Saracen Too restrictive. Neolithic Levantine and Proto-Semitic are better.
    E1b1b-M310 (formerly E-M81) Berber Acceptable - although the origins of M81 remain unclear and most European M81 is probably not of Berber origin.
    E1a-M33 Mali Too restrictive. Sahel fits more the geographic distribution.
    E1b1b-M35 Elmenteitan If it excludes its M78, M123 and M81 subclades, then it's reasonable, but otherwise not.
    E1b1b-M78 Luxor This is nonsensical. Why name it after a city? 'Red Sea' would be better.
    E-P1 Niger-Congo What is P1?
    E-V13 Balkans Ok in terms of highest frequency today, but confusing as it was probably spread by the Indo-Europeans during the Bronze Age.
    E-V22 Ancient Egyptian Ok, but also ancient Levant and Ethiopia, so Red Sea is more appropriate.
    G-S314 Ancient Caucasian Haplogroup G* is nearly 50,000 years old. Why even try to link it to some ethnicity? G2a is Neolithic Anatolian farmers.
    H1a1-M82 Romani Correct
    I1-M253 Teutonic Ok, but confusing as Teutonic means either Germanic or one specific Germanic tribe (the Teutons). 'Germanic' would be preferable.
    I2a2a-M284 Ancient British Ok, and more specifically Neolithic or Megalithic Britons.
    I2a1-P37 Gaul Nobody belongs to P37 without further subclade. Why list it? It is certainly not Gaulish, but Mesolithic European.
    I1-S142 (aka L22) Scandinavian Correct
    I-S155 (aka L38) Rhineland Too restrictive. 'North Alpine Celtic' os something similar would be better.
    I2a2a-S165 (aka L126) Caledonian Just a subclade of M284 that formed in the Bronze Age. 'Brythonic' would be better as it is not specifically Scottish.
    I2a1b-S185 (aka L161.1) Deer hunters It's Mesolithic European (many were deer hunters, but that's not a proper appellation as it is too vague)
    I1-S1954 (formerly S197) (aka YSC261) Anglo Saxon It is definitely Germanic, but is widely distributed over Scandinavia and continental Europe, so surely not just Anglo-Saxon.
    I2a1a-S21825 (formerly I-S183) Chauci Mesolithic European. It formed some 15,000 years ago.
    I2a2a-S24 (aka M223) Saxon Once again Mesolithic European. Saxon might be correct for some subclades of the Germanic I2a2a-L801, but not for M223, as it also includes branches associated with the Yamna and Corded Ware cultures.
    I2c-S333 (aka L597) Thracian It is Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European. Nothing else can be said at that level as it formed over 20,000 years ago.
    I2a1b-S392 (aka L621) Illyrian It is Mesolithic European like L161.1, but modern carriers belong mostly to the CTS10228 clade, which is Slavic. It is not Illyrian anyway.
    I2a1a-S433 (formerly I-M26) Nuragic It is Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European. The Nuragic/Sardinian branch is one of its subclade only, L160, which formed during the Neolithic.
    J-M172 Herdsman Farmer Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Caucasians mostly, although it is correct that their descendants became some of the first Neolithic herders and farmers.
    J-M267 Arabian How completely wrong. The Arabian J1 is much much deeper in the phylogeny, downstream of the Semitic L858 branch.
    L-M11 Dravidian Haplogroup H corresponds to the Dravidians. Haplogroup L is centred around Pakistan and is associated with the Harappa culture. But L* is in itself Palaeolithic South Asia or Iranian Plateau.
    N-M231 Siberian Wrong. Haplogroup N originated in East Asia (probably China) and only spread to Mongolia and Siberia during the Neolithic.
    N1c-M46 (aka Tat) Uralic Once again the depth of subclade is wrong. N1c dates from Neolithic China. The Uralic branches are only the much deeper Z1936 and CTS9976.
    O-P191 (formerly O-P186) Sunda Nonsense. Haplogroup O* originated over 30,000 years ago, probably around China, not Indonesia (Sunda).
    Q-M242 Altai (formerly Yenisei) Why only Altai? This is a properly ancient Siberian haplogroup, but also the main lineage of Native Americans.
    R1A- M17 (formerly R1a-M512) Pit Grave Culture I'd say north-west Pit Grave (Yamna) culture and especially Corded Ware culture.
    R1a-S198 (aka Z282) Kurgan Kurgan/tumulus is too vague as it spans from the Chalcolithc to the Iron Age, from the Steppe to Western Europe. It includes Proto-Balto-Slavic and Proto-Germanic branches. Anyway nobody belongs only to S198 without further subclade nowadays, so why mention it?
    R1a-S202 (aka Z93) Indo-Iranian Correct.
    R1a-S298 (aka L664) Yamna (formerly Brythonic) Incorrect. S298/L664 formed during the Corded Ware culture, after Yamna was over and after leaving the Steppe. It spread in later Proto-Germanic societies. I would jus call it 'Germanic'.
    R1a-S443 (aka Z289) Norse Viking Scandinavian Germanic is more accurate as it long predates the Viking, but it is true that it was diffused outside Scandinavia mostly by the Norwegian and Swedish Vikings. 'Norse Viking' is redundant though as the Vikings were Norse.
    R1b-M153 Basque Correct
    R1b-M222 Ancient Irish Correct, although this subclade is more medieval than really ancient. Its associated with the descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages.
    R1b-M269 Anatolian Misleading. Once again nobody belongs just to M269* today, and the whole branch is so vast that there is no suitable name to encompass it all. It is not even clear if M269 developed in Anatolia, the Caucasus, Russia or elsewhere.
    R1b-S1136 Eoganachta Actually the Eoganachta surnames are found within a deep subclade of S1136, under A1134.
    R1b-S116 (aka P312) Beaker Folk (formerly Bell Beaker and Hunter Gatherer) Misleading. R1b-S116 were the invaders of the Bell Beaker culture. They were certainly not hunter-gatherers.
    R1b-S145 (aka L21) Pretani What do they mean by Pretani? Northwest European Celts is clearer.
    R1b-S168 (aka L226) Dalcassian Probably correct. Known as Irish Type III and found mostly in SW Ireland.
    R1b-S169 (aka L159.2) Hibernians S169 is a medieval subclade within the Irish Sea haplotype. It is too young to be called 'Hibernian' though.
    R1b-S182 (aka L238) Norse Correct.
    R1b-S190 Maeatae Part of the Little Scottish cluster around the Firth of Forth. It dates from the early Middle Ages and is too northern to be Maeatae.
    R1b-S21 (aka U106) Germanic More Proto-Celto-Germanic, but essentially Germanic.
    R1b-S28 (aka U152) Alpine Ok, but includes both Alpine Celts and Italics.
    R1b-S300 (aka L371) Ancient Welsh Ok, but maybe be more widely Insular Celtic.
    R1b-S388 (was S466) Royal Stewart Actually the Royal Stuart branch is the S781 subclade of S388.
    R1b-S530 (aka L1335) Gododdin Maybe. S530 is a most Lowland Scottish clade, also found in northern Ireland.
    R1b-S68 (aka L165) Hebridean Viking Very doubtful. This is a Bronze Age clade of DF27 found almost exclusively in Britain, with a very small percentage in Scandinavia. It was most probably imported by the Vikings from Scotland to Scandinavia and not the other way round.
    R1b-S735 ( was S530) (aka L1065) Pictish A mostly Scottish clade whose last common ancestor lived 1800 years ago. Too young to be called Pictish, but it is Scottish.
    R1b-SRY2627 (aka M167) Iberian Not just Iberian, but West European. In fact SRY2627 may have originated in Britain and spread to France and Iberia with the Atlantic Bronze Age trade.
    R2-M479 Harappan Wrong. R2 is found mostly in south and east India and Southeast Asia, but is rare in Pakistan. 'Bay of Bengal' would be a better description.
    T-M184 Babylon Much too restrictive. Neolithic Near Eastern farmers.


    The verdict: out of 59 haplogroups or subclades in the list, 18 are completely wrong or mostly wrong, 17 descriptions are too restrictive to be acceptable, 17 are acceptable but could be better rephrased, and only 7 are really correct.

    Among those wrong, I would suggest to remove completely G-S314, I2a1-P37, J-M267, N-M231, O-P191, R1a-Z282, R1b-M269 and R2-M479, because they do not match any single ethnic group and all people who are positive for these SNPs will be positive for large subclades that do match ethnic groups. The same is true for all I2 subclades listed, for which some valid ethnic groups were mentioned by the depth of subclade was not appropriate.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 16-03-17 at 18:05.
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4o

    Ethnic group
    Down Under
    Country: Australia

    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels




    This is just the fantasy of some Bible lovers. It's not part of the official results delivered by FTDNA. In BritainsDNA's case it is the information people get with their test results and many lay people trust this as facts coming from "scientists".

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    .................................................. .....
    Last edited by Rethel; 01-04-17 at 18:30.

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    ................................................
    Last edited by Rethel; 01-04-17 at 18:30.

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    there are apparently similar marker identifications for regions of Scotland. Is anyone familiar with these ?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-YP445
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c2b

    Ethnic group
    Celto-Germanic
    Country: USA - Rhode Island



    I am kurgan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey37 View Post
    I am kurgan
    There can be only one!

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Haplogroup nicknames attributed by BritainsDNA

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCoutts View Post
    There can be only one!
    Highlander Sean Connery Y, mtDNA, and Ancestry results would be very interesting.
    If they are out there, please share the link.
    “The Quickening”


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    This is a great intro into y-DNA haplogroups. Is there something similar for mtDNA ones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    BritainsDNA is the only testing (AFAIK) that ventures to attribute nicknames to haplogroups and common subclades based on ancient ethnic groups, tribes or geographic regions. This can be a hazardous business as it is quite challenging to find a short moniker that accurately describes the origins of an entire branch (or wig) or humanity. The difficulty lies in the fact that top-level haplogroups are extremely old (typically dating from the Ice Age), and subclades are so numerous that one has to choose carefully the right depth to match the expansion of historical ethnic groups. Obviously they didn't put much thought into it as their descriptions are often more farcical than factual. It is not all wrong, but at least half of it should be discarded.

    Below you'll the list of nicknames used by BritainsDNA and my comments in the right column to describe their accuracy and offer a better alternative.


    BritainsDNA SNP name BritainsDNA nickname Critique
    A1b-M13 Nilotic Too restrictive. It's found in many arts of Sub-Saharan Africa, but is most common among the San people of Southern Africa.
    B Pacific Rim Utterly wrong. It's Sub-Saharan African.
    C-M216 Ancient Asian Palaeolithic Eurasian would be more correct, as it is also European (C1a2).
    D2-M55 Jomon Correct
    E1b1b-M123 (formerly E-M34) Saracen Too restrictive. Neolithic Levantine and Proto-Semitic are better.
    E1b1b-M310 (formerly E-M81) Berber Acceptable - although the origins of M81 remain unclear and most European M81 is probably not of Berber origin.
    E1a-M33 Mali Too restrictive. Sahel fits more the geographic distribution.
    E1b1b-M35 Elmenteitan If it excludes its M78, M123 and M81 subclades, then it's reasonable, but otherwise not.
    E1b1b-M78 Luxor This is nonsensical. Why name it after a city? 'Red Sea' would be better.
    E-P1 Niger-Congo What is P1?
    E-V13 Balkans Ok in terms of highest frequency today, but confusing as it was probably spread by the Indo-Europeans during the Bronze Age.
    E-V22 Ancient Egyptian Ok, but also ancient Levant and Ethiopia, so Red Sea is more appropriate.
    G-S314 Ancient Caucasian Haplogroup G* is nearly 50,000 years old. Why even try to link it to some ethnicity? G2a is Neolithic Anatolian farmers.
    H1a1-M82 Romani Correct
    I1-M253 Teutonic Ok, but confusing as Teutonic means either Germanic or one specific Germanic tribe (the Teutons). 'Germanic' would be preferable.
    I2a2a-M284 Ancient British Ok, and more specifically Neolithic or Megalithic Britons.
    I2a1-P37 Gaul Nobody belongs to P37 without further subclade. Why list it? It is certainly not Gaulish, but Mesolithic European.
    I1-S142 (aka L22) Scandinavian Correct
    I-S155 (aka L38) Rhineland Too restrictive. 'North Alpine Celtic' os something similar would be better.
    I2a2a-S165 (aka L126) Caledonian Just a subclade of M284 that formed in the Bronze Age. 'Brythonic' would be better as it is not specifically Scottish.
    I2a1b-S185 (aka L161.1) Deer hunters It's Mesolithic European (many were deer hunters, but that's not a proper appellation as it is too vague)
    I1-S1954 (formerly S197) (aka YSC261) Anglo Saxon It is definitely Germanic, but is widely distributed over Scandinavia and continental Europe, so surely not just Anglo-Saxon.
    I2a1a-S21825 (formerly I-S183) Chauci Mesolithic European. It formed some 15,000 years ago.
    I2a2a-S24 (aka M223) Saxon Once again Mesolithic European. Saxon might be correct for some subclades of the Germanic I2a2a-L801, but not for M223, as it also includes branches associated with the Yamna and Corded Ware cultures.
    I2c-S333 (aka L597) Thracian It is Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European. Nothing else can be said at that level as it formed over 20,000 years ago.
    I2a1b-S392 (aka L621) Illyrian It is Mesolithic European like L161.1, but modern carriers belong mostly to the CTS10228 clade, which is Slavic. It is not Illyrian anyway.
    I2a1a-S433 (formerly I-M26) Nuragic It is Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European. The Nuragic/Sardinian branch is one of its subclade only, L160, which formed during the Neolithic.
    J-M172 Herdsman Farmer Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Caucasians mostly, although it is correct that their descendants became some of the first Neolithic herders and farmers.
    J-M267 Arabian How completely wrong. The Arabian J1 is much much deeper in the phylogeny, downstream of the Semitic L858 branch.
    L-M11 Dravidian Haplogroup H corresponds to the Dravidians. Haplogroup L is centred around Pakistan and is associated with the Harappa culture. But L* is in itself Palaeolithic South Asia or Iranian Plateau.
    N-M231 Siberian Wrong. Haplogroup N originated in East Asia (probably China) and only spread to Mongolia and Siberia during the Neolithic.
    N1c-M46 (aka Tat) Uralic Once again the depth of subclade is wrong. N1c dates from Neolithic China. The Uralic branches are only the much deeper Z1936 and CTS9976.
    O-P191 (formerly O-P186) Sunda Nonsense. Haplogroup O* originated over 30,000 years ago, probably around China, not Indonesia (Sunda).
    Q-M242 Altai (formerly Yenisei) Why only Altai? This is a properly ancient Siberian haplogroup, but also the main lineage of Native Americans.
    R1A- M17 (formerly R1a-M512) Pit Grave Culture I'd say north-west Pit Grave (Yamna) culture and especially Corded Ware culture.
    R1a-S198 (aka Z282) Kurgan Kurgan/tumulus is too vague as it spans from the Chalcolithc to the Iron Age, from the Steppe to Western Europe. It includes Proto-Balto-Slavic and Proto-Germanic branches. Anyway nobody belongs only to S198 without further subclade nowadays, so why mention it?
    R1a-S202 (aka Z93) Indo-Iranian Correct.
    R1a-S298 (aka L664) Yamna (formerly Brythonic) Incorrect. S298/L664 formed during the Corded Ware culture, after Yamna was over and after leaving the Steppe. It spread in later Proto-Germanic societies. I would jus call it 'Germanic'.
    R1a-S443 (aka Z289) Norse Viking Scandinavian Germanic is more accurate as it long predates the Viking, but it is true that it was diffused outside Scandinavia mostly by the Norwegian and Swedish Vikings. 'Norse Viking' is redundant though as the Vikings were Norse.
    R1b-M153 Basque Correct
    R1b-M222 Ancient Irish Correct, although this subclade is more medieval than really ancient. Its associated with the descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages.
    R1b-M269 Anatolian Misleading. Once again nobody belongs just to M269* today, and the whole branch is so vast that there is no suitable name to encompass it all. It is not even clear if M269 developed in Anatolia, the Caucasus, Russia or elsewhere.
    R1b-S1136 Eoganachta Actually the Eoganachta surnames are found within a deep subclade of S1136, under A1134.
    R1b-S116 (aka P312) Beaker Folk (formerly Bell Beaker and Hunter Gatherer) Misleading. R1b-S116 were the invaders of the Bell Beaker culture. They were certainly not hunter-gatherers.
    R1b-S145 (aka L21) Pretani What do they mean by Pretani? Northwest European Celts is clearer.
    R1b-S168 (aka L226) Dalcassian Probably correct. Known as Irish Type III and found mostly in SW Ireland.
    R1b-S169 (aka L159.2) Hibernians S169 is a medieval subclade within the Irish Sea haplotype. It is too young to be called 'Hibernian' though.
    R1b-S182 (aka L238) Norse Correct.
    R1b-S190 Maeatae Part of the Little Scottish cluster around the Firth of Forth. It dates from the early Middle Ages and is too northern to be Maeatae.
    R1b-S21 (aka U106) Germanic More Proto-Celto-Germanic, but essentially Germanic.
    R1b-S28 (aka U152) Alpine Ok, but includes both Alpine Celts and Italics.
    R1b-S300 (aka L371) Ancient Welsh Ok, but maybe be more widely Insular Celtic.
    R1b-S388 (was S466) Royal Stewart Actually the Royal Stuart branch is the S781 subclade of S388.
    R1b-S530 (aka L1335) Gododdin Maybe. S530 is a most Lowland Scottish clade, also found in northern Ireland.
    R1b-S68 (aka L165) Hebridean Viking Very doubtful. This is a Bronze Age clade of DF27 found almost exclusively in Britain, with a very small percentage in Scandinavia. It was most probably imported by the Vikings from Scotland to Scandinavia and not the other way round.
    R1b-S735 ( was S530) (aka L1065) Pictish A mostly Scottish clade whose last common ancestor lived 1800 years ago. Too young to be called Pictish, but it is Scottish.
    R1b-SRY2627 (aka M167) Iberian Not just Iberian, but West European. In fact SRY2627 may have originated in Britain and spread to France and Iberia with the Atlantic Bronze Age trade.
    R2-M479 Harappan Wrong. R2 is found mostly in south and east India and Southeast Asia, but is rare in Pakistan. 'Bay of Bengal' would be a better description.
    T-M184 Babylon Much too restrictive. Neolithic Near Eastern farmers.


    The verdict: out of 59 haplogroups or subclades in the list, 18 are completely wrong or mostly wrong, 17 descriptions are too restrictive to be acceptable, 17 are acceptable but could be better rephrased, and only 7 are really correct.

    Among those wrong, I would suggest to remove completely G-S314, I2a1-P37, J-M267, N-M231, O-P191, R1a-Z282, R1b-M269 and R2-M479, because they do not match any single ethnic group and all people who are positive for these SNPs will be positive for large subclades that do match ethnic groups. The same is true for all I2 subclades listed, for which some valid ethnic groups were mentioned by the depth of subclade was not appropriate.
    So my ydna’s nickname is ‘Gaul’!? What does it mean !?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-Z2059

    Ethnic group
    Northern Italian / Northern Portuguese mostly
    Country: Brazil



    Mine would be 'Saxon', but that's not precise, as stated in Maciamo's comment. However, my subclade is said to be coming from the Suebi, and I read somewhere that they were once 'close' to the Saxons. Just curious anyway.

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