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Thread: Could have Goths been of Scandinavian R1a

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    If the Gothic mtDNA study is anything to go by, males in the Wielbark complex with Gothic-like burials had shared ancestry with Jutland Iron Age samples (not to mention a sample of Y-Hg I-Z63 found in Wielbark), so this could indicate, in part, an origin in Southern Scandinavia (Jutland or Southern Sweden). The females in the study were of local Neolithic origin. It is fairly well attested that the Goths were Germanic and that their language was also Germanic, however they (at least the Ostrogoths) picked up a degree of Steppe/Asian ancestry from their proximity and relationship with Scythians, Sarmatians, Huns, etc. The same can be said for the Gepids (who were probably a branch of the Goths in some respect), their stay in SE Europe and their relationship with Huns and Avars shows a degree of mixing.

    This goes back to the unresolved .....are Jutes of jutland the same as Gutes in South Sweden and the Gutish language also associated with Gotland
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    The only thing we are unsure of about the goths is their homeland....south sweden or coastal poland......the visigoths are the more "pure" goths mixing with suebi ......the ostrogoths mixed with baltic peoples initially, that is the venedi and aestii people and then marched to the black sea and stayed there for a few hundreds years, absorbing/mixing with bastanae and sarmatians.
    Over time , the visi and ostro goths split further apart from each other in all facits of society and genetics
    I think you don´t know Aryans´like Goths´history. Anyway yes, there were Goths living also in South Sweden and Poland, Vistula for example. But Goths were very old tribe and they lived in many places. Wesh, Chatti, Avestan Gatha (The Gathas are 17 Avestan hymns believed to have been composed by Zarathusthra), Vedic Gatha, Gutani, Vesi, Birka-Pirkka etc. were all Goths. Even the Biblical Gad was Gothic. Venedi, in turn, may refer to Vanai/Vanir/Danai or whatever Aryan people. Vene (Finn.) means a boat and maybe also a ship in antiquity.

    Goths wrote Vedic and Avestan Gathas, Vanai wrote Vedic Hari Vamsa and Hari Vamsa Purana. Members of these ancient Aryan tribes established many colonies and settlements all around, not only in Europe, but also in India and even in China and Mongolia. Asia is named after one Aryan tribe Pasiani-Asiani/Epra. The Bible knows this tribe as "Efraim", but Biblical names are often false forms of the original Hapiru/ Habiru names due to consonant writing. Hebrew was originally Habiru/Piru and these ancient "Hebrews" were Aryans. They were nearly everywhere.

    And they were seafarers controlling sea routes and trade. Southern Indo- Europeans or Romans didn´t even have a word for "sea". It was mar or mare which come from Mari. Aryan tribes formed a nation Mari. There was also a city state called Mari in the Middle East, established by them. They lived and ruled in Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, Canaan, Urartia, Ural, Europe including Scandinavia etc. And you say "The only thing we are unsure of about the goths is their homeland".

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    If the Gothic mtDNA study is anything to go by, males in the Wielbark complex with Gothic-like burials had shared ancestry with Jutland Iron Age samples (not to mention a sample of Y-Hg I-Z63 found in Wielbark), so this could indicate, in part, an origin in Southern Scandinavia (Jutland or Southern Sweden). The females in the study were of local Neolithic origin. It is fairly well attested that the Goths were Germanic and that their language was also Germanic, however they (at least the Ostrogoths) picked up a degree of Steppe/Asian ancestry from their proximity and relationship with Scythians, Sarmatians, Huns, etc. The same can be said for the Gepids (who were probably a branch of the Goths in some respect), their stay in SE Europe and their relationship with Huns and Avars shows a degree of mixing.
    Juts of Jutland were a "brother tribe" of the Goths, Scythians and other Aryans. They had the same ancestry, but this ancestry goes far back to in Khemi (Ancient Egypt)c. 2400BC. Juths/Jätti/ Jatuli are also known as a "Biblical tribe"- Judah! I`m not joking with this. One branch of that tribe was a famous "Judah" and interestingly, Finnish Kalevala is named after the Biblical Patriarch Kaleb, whose name was originally written as Kalevi. Any serious researcher can´t ignore Finno-Aryan language and character of the ancient Aryans. There is nothing else as assumptions, believing and censoring regarding to their supposed IE-Germanic origin. Initially there were not any IE-Germanic, but only after the language shift.

  4. #29
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    Um, what? Do you have any citations?

  5. #30
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    Wrong, wrong, wrong

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