New 23andMe Ancestry Timeline is a fraud

[Promenade]

This is how v5 groups the populations.

Maltese in the balkans, lol...

[Angela]

Maltese in the balkans, lol...

As I've been saying for years to the ******, that's why the Near Eastern proportions look lower in the Balkans in 23andme than they do through ADMIXTURE and formal stats. It only picks up "farmer" type ancestry which is in excess of what is already present in Greeks and the Maltese.

Likewise, Middle East is, or used to be heavily weighted toward the Caucasus, Iran, Turkey, etc. Palestinians and Saudis are in with North Africans. Perhaps Jordanians as well, which is what people usually think of when they think of Middle Eastern or Levantine populations.

When people are pushing an agenda, however, they have no intention of letting facts get in the way.

[davef]

^^ i caught that too, i expected Maltese to be more Siciilian than Balkan since it's located close to Sicily. I could be wrong, though

[davef]

Whoops, never should've put those arrows up in my previous post, they were pointing at promenade's post.

[Sile]

me a veneto ..............my family are all similar in numbers
Southern European 51.3%
Italian 27.7%
Iberian 5.9%
Broadly Southern European 17.8%
Northwestern European 39.1%
French & German 15.7%
Broadly Northwestern European 23.4%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
my phased results ...........father and then mother
Southern European 28.3%
Italian 17.6%
Balkan 0.6%
Iberian 2.4%
Sardinian 0.0%
Broadly Southern European 7.7%
Northwestern European 15.4%
French & German 11.8%

British & Irish 0.4%
Broadly Northwestern European 3.3%

Southern European 29.3%
Italian 18.2%
Balkan 2.8%
Iberian 0.0%
Sardinian 0.6%
Broadly Southern European 7.6%
Northwestern European 18.3%
French & German 11.6%
British & Irish 1.8%
Broadly Northwestern European 4.8%
maybe the 23andme french-german is the same as per this article
http://nofe.me/razib/WordPress/2017/...d-accurateish/

mine changed recently ....still the numbers are from v3
....
European 99.2% ............................up 0.7
Southern European 57.6%................up 6.0
Italian 35.8% ..................................up 8.1
Balkan 3.4% ......................................up 3.4
Iberian 2.4% .....................................down 3.5
Sardinian 0.6%
Broadly Southern European 15.3% ...................down 2.5
Northwestern European 33.7% ....................down 5.8
French & German 13.4% ..........................down 2.3
British & Irish 2.2% ....................................up 2.2
Broadly Northwestern European 18.1% ..................down 5.3
.................................................. .........
father phased
Southern European 28.3%
Italian 17.6%
Balkan 0.6%
Iberian 2.4%
Sardinian 0.0%
Broadly Southern European 7.7%
Northwestern European 15.4%
French & German 1.8%
British & Irish 0.4%
Broadly Northwestern European 13.3%
.................................................. .........
mother phased
Southern European 29.3%
Italian 18.2%
Balkan 2.8%
Iberian 0.0%
Sardinian 0.6%
Broadly Southern European 7.6%
Northwestern European 18.3%
French & German 11.6%
British & Irish 1.8%
Broadly Northwestern European 4.8%


They have also fixed the chromosome bars ...for me , maternal is top and paternal is bottom

[Jovialis]

As I've been saying for years to the ******, that's why the Near Eastern proportions look lower in the Balkans in 23andme than they do through ADMIXTURE and formal stats. It only picks up "farmer" type ancestry which is in excess of what is already present in Greeks and the Maltese.
Likewise, Middle East is, or used to be heavily weighted toward the Caucasus, Iran, Turkey, etc. Palestinians and Saudis are in with North Africans. Perhaps Jordanians as well, which is what people usually think of when they think of Middle Eastern or Levantine populations.
When people are pushing an agenda, however, they have no intention of letting facts get in the way.

This is how they're grouping the middle east and North Africa for V5.

[davef]

North African includes Bedouins, Arabians, Palestinians, Jordanians, and Yemenis.....

[davef]

Maltese in the balkans, lol...

Allow me to contribute to 23andme's new version. I'll create a new category, let's call it "French".

French
(Spanish, Portuguese, French, North Italian, British, Irish, German, Swiss, Dutch, Belgian).

The 23andme support team has its work cut out, big time. It had better be well prepared for an onslaught of questions from confused customers.

[AdeoF]

This is how they're grouping the middle east and North Africa for V5.

I think 23andme team needs to go back to school and re-do there geography, I don't think they know anything about it nor the genetics in the regions(like even the simple one that berbers and arabs are different). I don't think I would get a test from them anytime soon.

[Jovialis]

I think 23andme team needs to go back to school and re-do there geography, I don't think they know anything about it nor the genetics in the regions(like even the simple one that berbers and arabs are different). I don't think I would get a test from them anytime soon.

I don't think it's bad, but like with all of these tests it requires the person to do a lot of research into genetics. They have to know the history of their background, and what these terms imply. I think the geneplaza K12 calculator helped to clarify a lot for me. For example, my Balkan admixture comes from ancient times (Greeks & Messapii), not the more recent populations; based on the ancient samples and the history of that area. I'm only from one area, so its easier for me to get an idea of what the results mean.

I think 23andme is one of the better DNA testing kits; much better than National Geographic was.

@Davef, it's not just the new version that groups them like this. If you read further back in the thread, the previous versions did as well. There's nothing inherently wrong with V5, and it's actually an improvement from V4. Nevertheless, V3 tested the most SNPs.

[Jovialis]

mine changed recently ....still the numbers are from v3
....
European 99.2% ............................up 0.7
Southern European 57.6%................up 6.0
Italian 35.8% ..................................up 8.1
Balkan 3.4% ......................................up 3.4
Iberian 2.4% .....................................down 3.5
Sardinian 0.6%
Broadly Southern European 15.3% ...................down 2.5
Northwestern European 33.7% ....................down 5.8
French & German 13.4% ..........................down 2.3
British & Irish 2.2% ....................................up 2.2
Broadly Northwestern European 18.1% ..................down 5.3
.................................................. .........
father phased
Southern European 28.3%
Italian 17.6%
Balkan 0.6%
Iberian 2.4%
Sardinian 0.0%
Broadly Southern European 7.7%
Northwestern European 15.4%
French & German 1.8%
British & Irish 0.4%
Broadly Northwestern European 13.3%
.................................................. .........
mother phased
Southern European 29.3%
Italian 18.2%
Balkan 2.8%
Iberian 0.0%
Sardinian 0.6%
Broadly Southern European 7.6%
Northwestern European 18.3%
French & German 11.6%
British & Irish 1.8%
Broadly Northwestern European 4.8%
They have also fixed the chromosome bars ...for me , maternal is top and paternal is bottom

Interesting, they must be applying the updated algorithm the new users got.

[Angela]

I think Jovialis is right. It's still the best test out there.

Geographical borders really don't necessarily overlap with genetic borders, which is why genome testing for consumers is very difficult. In terms of the Balkans, including Malta was just wrong. It should definitely be with Italy. On the other hand, I think I do understand what is going on with the Middle East and North Africa. North Africa was settled by farmers from the Levant. There was, I'm sure, constant gene flow from the Middle East into the region, up to and including the Arabic invasions of the early Medieval period. It's true, of course, that they have very low levels of Iran like ancestry, so one could make the argument that they should split the larger area into an Iran like group or northern West Asian, and a Levant like/North African grouping. However, the Levant has been receiving gene flow from Iran since right after the beginning of the Neolithic. There's also been some gene flow in the opposite direction, as in Armenia. So, where to draw the lines? I think what they did is to divide the heavily East African and SSA admixed groups from the rest, so Yemen, Saudi, Palestinians and Jordanians were grouped with North Africans. It's imperfect, but I don't know the ideal division.

The problem is really with the naming. When people see Middle East as a result in 23andme, they think Palestinian, Jordanian, and Saudi, maybe even Egypt, but it's not correct. That would be represented by the North African score.

As someone pointed out, this has always been the division in 23andme.

The timeline, however, is best just ignored. No one but Ralph and Coop has gotten the timing of admixture basically right just from looking at modern genomes. All the rest make it too recent, imo.