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Thread: Share your 23andMe Ancestry Composition

  1. #501
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    ^^For God's sake. It doesn't matter what you believe; it matters what "they" believed in terms of what they called themselves.

    We're not here to discuss biases based on nothing; we're here to discuss history as well as genetics.

    Whether you like it or not, ROMAN veterans were settled all over Northern Italy, followed by ROMAN merchants and craftsmen, and on and on, and in fact, although they thought of themselves as ROMANS, as did Pliny, and Catallus etc. as time went on more and more of them probably had a lot of Greek in them.

    You would know that if you would read the referenced materials. The archaeology and history is clear.

    Or is it that some of you are incapable of understanding the material posted here?


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  2. #502
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    Even and especially Iberia was heavily influenced by early Roman settlers of mostly Latin background. One just has to read Caesars Civil War and check for the colonies to be sure about that.

  3. #503
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    Indeed.

    You may be thinking of this:


    Might explain the closeness of some Southern Spaniards to ancient Romans.

    Best map of which I'm aware of the Roman settlements: Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire.

    https://dh.gu.se/dare/

    Interestingly enough, the map of Roman settlements in interior France is almost exactly the area shown as the source of my "French" ancestry in Ancestry. It runs from Narbonne through Toulouse, northern Bordeaux, and then into Poitou. This isn't the first time something has come up showing ties to Poitou.

    As for Spain, I get pretty close fits to remains from Spain dated to the Roman Empire; mostly in the south, but a number from Catalonia and Valencia as well. It makes sense. That was the first route into Spain, i.e. along the Med.

  4. #504
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    Cool Atlas, Angela. Opitergium, Ariolica and Pagus Laebactium (someway I firstly read lactobacillus - lol) are examples of areas of relatively close ancestors of mine. Also along Via Aurelia, more or less between Patavium and Acelum. :)

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Cool Atlas, Angela. Opitergium, Ariolica and Pagus Laebactium (someway I firstly read lactobacillus - lol) are examples of areas of relatively close ancestors of mine. Also along Via Aurelia, more or less between Patavium and Acelum. :)

    Opitergium is modern Oderzo ...it was an illyrian market town shared with Venetic peoples

    https://books.google.com.au/books?id...lyrian&f=false
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-Y33791
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

  6. #506
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    "The Veneti of Oderzo appear to have maintained friendly relations with the Romans and the population was gradually Romanized after the Romans moved into the area around 200 BC. The town was granted Latin rights in 182 BC. The Via Postumia, finished in 148 BC, passing through Oderzo, connected Genua to Aquileia, and thus, increased the importance of Oderzo.Citizens of Oderzo likely were involved in the Social War in 89 BC since acorn-like missiles with names in Venetic and Latin inscriptions have been found at Ascoli Piceno.[5]
    During the Roman Civil War, Caius Volteius Capito, a centurion born in Oderzo, led a number of men from the town to fight on the side of Julius Caesar against Pompey.[6] For their loyalty, Caesar exempted Oderzo from conscription for 20 years and enlarged its territory.[7] Moreover, in 48 BC the city was elevated to the rank of Roman municipium and its citizens assigned to the Roman tribe Papiria by the Lex de Gallia Cisalpina".

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    The update finally removed most of the misplaced Scandinavian and B&I

    Great job if you compare it with LivingDNA:

    frisii.jpg

    Or AncestryDNA:

    right.jpg

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    I am curious if anyone has enough data to compare if there is genetic link between Romanians and Italians of Rome's surrounding regions. The story goes that around third century ad, many prostitutes from Rome were dumped to Romania. If this story is true there should be some female genetic similarity between this two regions. I don't know which region in Romania they were dumped to, but there should be a trace if there is any truth in the story.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    I am curious if anyone has enough data to compare if there is genetic link between Romanians and Italians of Rome's surrounding regions. The story goes that around third century ad, many prostitutes from Rome were dumped to Romania. If this story is true there should be some female genetic similarity between this two regions. I don't know which region in Romania they were dumped to, but there should be a trace if there is any truth in the story.
    I think the answer will be .....................why Romanians/thracians/Dacians changed to a Latin based Roman language very very early in their roman history and give away what they spoke beforehand ................I have not seen this complete change in any other roman province........

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    I think the answer will be .....................why Romanians/thracians/Dacians changed to a Latin based Roman language very very early in their roman history and give away what they spoke beforehand ................I have not seen this complete change in any other roman province........
    It might be helpful to read up on the Dacian wars. That was one of the most brutal, most extensive campaigns and conquests in all of Roman history. You don't hear about the Dacians that much in later times. Some related tribes survived outside of the Roman sphere, but the Dacian core was crushed in my opinion.

    The conclusion of the Dacian Wars marked a triumph for Rome and its armies. Trajan announced 123 days of celebrations throughout the Empire. Dacia's rich gold mines were secured and it is estimated that Dacia then contributed 700 million Denarii per annum to the Roman economy, providing finance for Rome's future campaigns and assisting with the rapid expansion of Roman towns throughout Europe.[6]:8 The remains of the mining activities are still visible, especially at Roșia Montană. One hundred thousand male slaves were sent back to Rome; and to discourage future revolts, legions XIII Gemina and V Macedonica were permanently posted in Dacia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan%27s_Dacian_Wars


    So a lot of Romans moved to Dacia, and a lot of Dacians came to Italia.

  11. #511
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    munity both in the free and in the occupied territories. They continued to work side by side with the Roman colonists and The conquest of Dacia by the Romans and its turning into an imperial province (A.D. 106-271) brought about major changes in the native population's economic, social and political life.
    The Geto-Dacians continued to remain the main ethnic comveterans, who had been brought into the new Imperial province of Dacia from everywhere in the Roman World.
    The spirit of the conquerors, backed by the diligence of the local population, proved very profitable for the country Dacia reached such a high level of material and spiritual culture that was named Dacia Felix.
    There are several Hungarian authors who show that Dacia was "depleted of men" (later authors more accurately say "depleted of resources") but to believe the Romans could or even would exterminate everyone in such a vast area is ridiculous.

    Keep in mind that on Trajan's Column alone you have 7 scenes of Dacians submitting to Roman rule. Cassius Dio himself shows that at the start of the 106 war many Dacians willingly placed themselves under Rome's rule.

    Furthermore there are lots of Roman legions composed of Dacians, like Ala I Ulpia Dacorum, Cohors II Augusta Dacorum pia fidelis veterana milliaria equitata, Cohors III Dacorum equitata, Vexillatio Dacorum Parthica, and other units in Britain under the names Decibalus and Dida. There were at least 10 Roman military units purely of Dacians.
    Furthermore, the Latin inscriptions in Dacia sometimes show evident Dacian personal names, like Mucatra, Brasus, Mucapor Mucatralis, Rescuturma (the wife of a Roman cavalryman), Dula (wife of Volusius Titianus), Aurelius Duda, Aelius Diales etc. This clearly shows Dacians remained in Dacia, even though a huge number of colonists from the Empire came over them.
    BTW, some interesting things to note are Romans taking Dacian brides and people with Roman first names (Aelius) and Dacian last names (Diales), showing the process of assimilation was quite strong. The latter phenomenon is shown by e Dacians living under Rome's banner, and they were being assimilated.

    Furthermore, consider the toponyms and even names of cities in Roman Dacia: Prolissium, Sarmizegetusa, Recidava, Snica and Legio XIII



  12. #512
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Sorry, it wouldn't link.
    https://www.romanianhistoryandcultur...romandacia.htm


    Whether it's correct or not could probably be found here if anyone has a copy of it.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=_I..._redir=0&hl=en

  13. #513
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Hello, my brother has been tested by 23&me and his results are 100% Iberian absolutely focused like Galician. My updated results are 94,7% Iberian focused like Galician as well, and 5,2% "French&German" but it can not be focused to any population.

    My question is... does 23&me focus its reaching in our near generations (300-200 years ago) or the reaching represent older generations too??

    Thanks.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    It might be helpful to read up on the Dacian wars. That was one of the most brutal, most extensive campaigns and conquests in all of Roman history. You don't hear about the Dacians that much in later times. Some related tribes survived outside of the Roman sphere, but the Dacian core was crushed in my opinion.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan%27s_Dacian_Wars


    So a lot of Romans moved to Dacia, and a lot of Dacians came to Italia.

    IMO, these brutal wars by Romans versus Dacians , came about due to the previous centuries mixing of celts and Pannonians with Dacians ................the only other places the celts mixed with the locals before the Romans arrived was Moesia ( modern Serbia )

    and yes

    very many Romans moved to Dacia after this conflict...............they also moved to dalmatia and pannonia after the 4 year long Illyrian revolt against Rome ( period of 1st Roman emperor Augustus )

  15. #515
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Exploring in 23&me I have seen the theorical timeline of my ancestors, so I found the answer to my question. The timeline says I had an ancestor fullblooded "French&German" who was born between 1780 and 1820. I was shocked... my only ancestor from outside Northwestern Iberian Peninsula since 1750 was a napoleonic soldier who stayed in my land in 1809 and married here, surnamed Moritz (so surely he was alsacian or similar). How is possible science can be so accurate about my own ancestors with a so simple test...? extremely interesting.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidtab View Post
    Exploring in 23&me I have seen the theorical timeline of my ancestors, so I found the answer to my question. The timeline says I had an ancestor fullblooded "French&German" who was born between 1780 and 1820. I was shocked... my only ancestor from outside Northwestern Iberian Peninsula since 1750 was a napoleonic soldier who stayed in my land in 1809 and married here, surnamed Moritz (so surely he was alsacian or similar). How is possible science can be so accurate about my own ancestors with a so simple test...? extremely interesting.
    Don't you publish your results?

  17. #517
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    My ancestry:
    Attachment 12538

    My timeline:
    Attachment 12539

    My brother is 100% Iberian, Galician.

  18. #518
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    Images don´t work...

    I am 94,7% "Spanish&Portuguese", 5,2% "French&German", 0,1 "Unassigned". Timeline says I had a "full" French&German born between 1780 and 1820.

    My brother is 100% "Spanish&Portuguese".

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidtab View Post
    Exploring in 23&me I have seen the theorical timeline of my ancestors, so I found the answer to my question. The timeline says I had an ancestor fullblooded "French&German" who was born between 1780 and 1820. I was shocked... my only ancestor from outside Northwestern Iberian Peninsula since 1750 was a napoleonic soldier who stayed in my land in 1809 and married here, surnamed Moritz (so surely he was alsacian or similar). How is possible science can be so accurate about my own ancestors with a so simple test...? extremely interesting.

    Nothing can be excluded, but unless you have actual, sure and recent introgressions from other peoples in your genealogy, I'd consider these secondary percentages traces of older stabilized mixtures already present for centuries or even millennia on European soil. They can help you identify a genetic cline versus a major reference population (I still prefer the older 23andMe algorithms, where autosomal was a little more varied and less flattened on a single population).


    IMO the claims of this tool to identify a precise ancestor over the past 200 - 300 years can be valid and significant only for those with a mixed ancestry, typical of populations characterized by recent immigration, such as in the Americas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidtab View Post
    Images don´t work...

    I am 94,7% "Spanish&Portuguese", 5,2% "French&German", 0,1 "Unassigned". Timeline says I had a "full" French&German born between 1780 and 1820.

    My brother is 100% "Spanish&Portuguese".
    Most likely its not real, but represents just old similarity. However, if its real, you should have actual, higher matches from the North. Probably not on 23andme, because they are very American, but at Ancestry and MyHeritage or on Gedmatch.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Well, I have an ancestor surnamed Moritz, a napoleonic soldier who stayed in my land because of his injuries in 1809 and married to a local woman, from this surname and this man is the maternal surname of my mother, Moris, which is extremely uncommon and everybody who carry this surname in my land is close relative of mine. His existence was transmited generation by generation until today, we even know he has to return to his land some years later his marriage to arrange issues related to his heritage, and then came back to his home with his wife and sons and daughters in my land.

    In 23&me I found some far relatives with 4 grandparents along the Rhin river between Luxembourg and Switzerland, Alsace and Baden-Wutemberg, where Moritz surname is quite common, so I suppose this man was from that area.

  22. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidtab View Post
    Well, I have an ancestor surnamed Moritz, a napoleonic soldier who stayed in my land because of his injuries in 1809 and married to a local woman, from this surname and this man is the maternal surname of my mother, Moris, which is extremely uncommon and everybody who carry this surname in my land is close relative of mine. His existence was transmited generation by generation until today, we even know he has to return to his land some years later his marriage to arrange issues related to his heritage, and then came back to his home with his wife and sons and daughters in my land.

    In 23&me I found some far relatives with 4 grandparents along the Rhin river between Luxembourg and Switzerland, Alsace and Baden-Wutemberg, where Moritz surname is quite common, so I suppose this man was from that area.
    Well, seems its real in your case. 1809 is not that far away, with an ancestor born between 1810-30 probably being half-German, that's significant and could come close to the 3 percent interestingly. The good thing about 23andme is you can check easily whether the segments are on the same chromosome etc.

  23. #523
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    Eastern European 70,8% (likely match Slovenia, others not detected)
    Greek & Balkan 23,4 % (likely match Croatia, others not detected)
    French & German 5,1 % (no specific location)

    Haplogroups H1 and I-S17250.

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    latin came from a language spoken in the Balkans

    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    why Romanians/thracians/Dacians changed to a Latin based Roman language very very early in their roman history and give away what they spoke beforehand ................I have not seen this complete change in any other roman province........
    Most likely the Latin spoken by the Romans was / came from a language spoken in the Balkans by the Dacians / Thracians. So it starts to make sense.

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    Kosovar Albanian
    Results: 100% Greek/Balkan
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