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Thread: Share your 23andMe Ancestry Composition

  1. #26
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    Country: Italy



    @Maciamo
    Just one was included: himself. He haven't included my other matches and my family.
    Excluding his own sample and those three with traces of MN or UD, we would have for Veneto (n=46 ; mine 8 added to his 38), rounding off:

    - Southern European: 58.4
    italian: 33.0
    balkan: 3.9
    iberian: 2.0
    sardinian: 0.1
    broadly S.E.: 19.2
    - Northwestern European: 31.8
    french & german: 11.9
    british & irish: 2.1
    broadly NW.E.: 17.6
    - Eastern European: 0.4
    - Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
    - Broadly European: 9.0

    @Sile
    You posted just the results of your mother and wife, and without the Broadly European (what are they?). I could consider your father too. The number of samples would grow to 49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    @Maciamo
    Just one was included: himself. He haven't included my other matches and my family.
    Excluding his own sample and those three with traces of MN or UD, we would have for Veneto (n=46 ; mine 8 added to his 38), rounding off:

    - Southern European: 58.4
    italian: 33.0
    balkan: 3.9
    iberian: 2.0
    sardinian: 0.1
    broadly S.E.: 19.2
    - Northwestern European: 31.8
    french & german: 11.9
    british & irish: 2.1
    broadly NW.E.: 17.6
    - Eastern European: 0.4
    - Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
    - Broadly European: 9.0

    @Sile
    You posted just the results of your mother and wife, and without the Broadly European (what are they?). I could consider your father too. The number of samples would grow to 49.
    Mothers's broadly


    Broadly European 2.9%



    Fathers broadly

    Broadly European 4.5%



    wife's broadly

    Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%
    Broadly European 3.7%
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

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    Mine, from Lyon, France. But my maternal grandfather was born in Alsace a few months before this region was integrated into France.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lyonnist View Post
    Mine, from Lyon, France. But my maternal grandfather was born in Alsace a few months before this region was integrated into France.

    Those are interestingly high British and Irish percentages for Lyon and Alsace being more south and east from Anglo-Saxon or Gaelic areas. I wonder if British and Irish Scores might correlate more with Hallstatt culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Mothers's broadly


    Broadly European 2.9%



    Fathers broadly

    Broadly European 4.5%



    wife's broadly

    Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%
    Broadly European 3.7%
    You posted just your wife's and mother's results. What about the other % of your father? Doesn't your wife have any Balkan %?
    (The author of the map haven't included your family either.)

    As for the little %s, I think they wouldn't do any difference, since I'm ignoring averages below 0.1.
    Last edited by Regio X; 29-03-17 at 17:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    Those are interestingly high British and Irish percentages for Lyon and Alsace being more south and east from Anglo-Saxon or Gaelic areas. I wonder if British and Irish Scores might correlate more with Hallstatt culture.
    Maybe it comes from my Alsatian grandparent, right? Unless this is because Lyon is a burgundian population home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    You posted just your wife's and mother's results. What about the other % of your father? Doesn't your wife have any Balkan %?
    (The author of the map haven't included your family either.)

    As for the little %s, I think they wouldn't do any difference, since I'm ignoring averages below 0.1.

    my wife's data comes from my sons phased , doubled...........no Balkan


    my father below

    European 99.6%
    Southern European 62.6%

    Italian 34.2%
    Balkan 6.2%
    Iberian 4.8%
    Sardinian 0.0%
    Broadly Southern European 15.4%

    Northwestern European 30.8%
    French & German 23.6%
    British & Irish 0.8%
    Broadly Northwestern European 19.6%

    Eastern European 0.6%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
    Broadly European 4.5%
    East Asian 0.3%

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lyonnist View Post
    Mine, from Lyon, France. But my maternal grandfather was born in Alsace a few months before this region was integrated into France.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lyonnist View Post
    Maybe it comes from my Alsatian grandparent, right? Unless this is because Lyon is a burgundian population home.
    Yeah I'm not sure how these companies can differentiate between a Frank and a Saxon or between a Gaulish Celt and a Gaelic Celt? I'm thinking maybe French and German or Western European on other sites is primarily Germanic with a substrate of Celtic and that British and Irish is primarily Celtic with a substrate of Germanic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    my wife's data comes from my sons phased , doubled...........no Balkan


    my father below

    European 99.6%
    Southern European 62.6%

    Italian 34.2%
    Balkan 6.2%
    Iberian 4.8%
    Sardinian 0.0%
    Broadly Southern European 15.4%

    Northwestern European 30.8%
    French & German 23.6%
    British & Irish 0.8%
    Broadly Northwestern European 19.6%

    Eastern European 0.6%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
    Broadly European 4.5%
    East Asian 0.3%
    It doesn't work this way. The phased results doubled don't necessarily corresponds to the actual results.
    I could consider one of your sons instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    It doesn't work this way. The phased results doubled don't necessarily corresponds to the actual results.
    I could consider one of your sons instead.

    ok

    my son...........as of today, the Euro, asia, african is split in the site............he also gained 190 DNA relatives in one day ?

    European 99.5%

    Southern European 51.3%
    Italian 27.7%
    Iberian 5.9%
    Broadly Southern European 17.8%

    Northwestern European 39.1%
    French & German 25.7%
    Broadly Northwestern European 13.4%

    Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
    Broadly European 8.9%

    Much of Europe was buried under miles of ice ten thousand years ago. As the glaciers receded over millennia, Neolithic farmers from the Near East joined Paleolithic hunter-gatherers to settle Europe.


    this is new
    Middle Eastern & North African 0.3%
    North African 0.3%

    The peoples of Northern Africa and the Middle East have not only genetic but also deep linguistic connections with one another.


    East Asian & Native American 0.1%
    East Asian 0.1%
    Mongolian 0.1%
    Native American < 0.1%


    The peoples of East Asia and the Americas have a shared genetic history. Their common ancestors left the Near East as early as 80,000 years ago, migrating across Asia. The ancestors of Native Americans began to cross into the Americas 12,000 to 15,000 years ago.

    Never seen native American before


    These comments are also new since yesterday

  11. #36
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    Country: Italy



    Veneto (n=49)

    - Southern European: 58.3
    italian: 33.0
    balkan: 3.9
    iberian: 2.1
    sardinian: 0.1
    broadly S.E.: 19.0
    - Northwestern European: 32.1
    french & german: 12.6
    british & irish: 2.1
    broadly NW.E.: 17.4
    - Eastern European: 0.4
    - Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
    - Broadly European: 8.8

    @Sile
    Thanks.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: USA - Massachusetts



    Why do I get so much "Broadly" ancestry?


    European 97.8%
    Middle Eastern & North African 2.1%
    East Asian & Native American 0.1%
    Unassigned< 0.1%

    European97.8%

    Southern European 58.3%
    Italian 36.4%
    Balkan 1.9%
    Broadly Southern European 20.0%

    Ashkenazi Jewish 15.3%

    Northwestern European 12.5%
    British & Irish 3.7%
    Scandinavian 0.9%
    Broadly Northwestern European 7.8%

    Eastern European 0.2%

    Broadly European 11.5%

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 33.96
    2 Neolithic 25.80
    3 Steppe 16.19
    4 NorthEastEuropean 11.82
    5 NearEast 6.59
    6 NorthAfrican 2.81
    7 Indian 1.52



    Finished reading population data. 516 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Italian @ 3.810068
    2 Greek @ 4.229321
    3 Greek @ 4.778130
    4 Albanian @ 6.053196
    5 Greek @ 6.240767
    6 Gagauz @ 6.561141
    7 Kosovar @ 6.647440
    8 Greek @ 6.737821
    9 Italian @ 6.845923
    10 Sicilian @ 6.990507
    11 Italian @ 7.607857
    12 Jew @ 7.940345
    13 Italian @ 8.114046
    14 Jew @ 8.275795
    15 Jew @ 8.687042
    16 Jew @ 8.920505
    17 Romanian @ 8.980809
    18 Maltese @ 9.041584
    19 Bulgarian @ 9.113941
    20 Greek @ 9.142041

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cypriot +50% French @ 3.132054


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% French +25% Jew +25% Jew @ 2.403215


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
    1 Jew + Armenian + English + Spanish @ 1.607330
    2 Armenian + English + Jew + Spanish @ 1.663090
    3 Armenian + English + Jew + Spanish @ 1.694453
    4 Armenian + English + Jew + Spanish @ 1.705359
    5 Armenian + Cypriot + English + Spanish @ 1.723775
    6 Armenian + Dutch + Jew + Spanish @ 1.750709
    7 Armenian + English + Spanish + Jew @ 1.754526
    8 Armenian + Scottish + Jew + Spanish @ 1.757841
    9 Armenian + Hungarian + Jew + Spanish @ 1.776551
    10 Jew + Armenian + English + Spanish @ 1.781777
    11 Armenian + Italian + Provencal + Spanish @ 1.782881
    12 Jew + Armenian + Irish + Spanish @ 1.790826
    13 Armenian + Bosnian + French + Jew @ 1.793978
    14 Armenian + Cypriot + Orcadian + Spanish @ 1.805219
    15 Armenian + Dutch + Jew + Spanish @ 1.805576
    16 Jew + Armenian + Scottish + Spanish @ 1.807223
    17 Armenian + Cypriot + English + Spanish @ 1.817127
    18 Armenian + French + Jew + Spanish @ 1.821414
    19 Armenian + Scottish + Jew + Spanish @ 1.822890
    20 Armenian + Croat + French + Jew @ 1.827996

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Now we badly need data from Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and all Baltic and Slavic countries.
    From the same person:
    (rounding off)
    Portugal (n=30)
    - Southern European: 81.2
    italian: 5.7
    balkan: 0.1
    iberian: 59.0
    broadly S.E.: 16.2
    - Northwestern European: 11.8
    french & german: 0.9
    british & irish: 2.5
    broadly NW.E.: 8.3
    - Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
    - Broadly European: 5.1
    - MENA: 0.4
    - Sub-Saharan: 0.2

    Serbia (n=16)
    - Southern European: 81.2
    italian: 0.3
    balkan: 75.5
    iberian: 0.1
    broadly S.E.: 5.3
    - Northwestern European: 2.0
    french & german: 0.3
    broadly NW.E.: 1.6
    - Eastern European: 9.0
    - Broadly European: 7.4
    - East Asian: 0.1
    - South Asian: 0.1

    Ed.: Ops. It's Serbia, not Croatia.
    Last edited by Regio X; 30-03-17 at 15:45.

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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    The following map, very interesting, was done from the same author. It shows the places where he found the highest scores for some 23andMe clusters so far, i.e., people from most of these places would be very well represented genetically by the reference samples - wherever they come from - which make up the related pop, then they don't get so much from others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    The following map, very interesting, was done from the same author. It shows the places where he found the highest scores for some 23andMe clusters so far, i.e., people from most of these places would be very well represented genetically by the reference samples - wherever they come from - which make up the related pop, then they don't get so much from others.

    That's great. My aim is to make distribution maps for each component once I get enough data for each country.

    In my samples, the highest French & German is from Wallonia in Belgium (70%), and the highest Scandinavian are a Swede (89.6%) and a Norwegian (87%), who both exceed the figures in this map. The Norwegian is from Oslo, but I am not sure that's also where his ancestors come from. The southern Swedish-Norwegian border near Oslo may have the highest Scandinavian. Incidentally that's also where haplogroup I1 peaks (about 50% of the population).
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    Very interesting map. British and Irish appears to be more Celtic than Anglo-Saxon. Don't understand why someone from Sardinia would be under 50%.

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    Speculative
    I'm from East Poland

    Eastern European 85.7
    Scandinavian 2.4
    British Irish 0.8
    Broadly NW European 2.7
    Balkan 3.9
    Broadly European 3.9
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    Everything depends on 23andme's reference samples, which, other than the few academic samples they use, are not scientifically chosen, and therefore might not be representative of the areas involved. Many more testees at 23andme are Irish than English, because most clients are from the U.S. and there's a big population here that identifies as Irish. Any people of English descent usually consider themselves just "American".

    In Italy, for example, the dot looks to be between Rome and Campania, which makes perfect sense as most of their testees are from southern Italy, but they have the big block of Tuscans from the 1000 genomes project which pulls the centrum northward. That dot does not mean that's where the most genetically "Italian" people can be found.

    As for the "French-German" cluster, that is one of the least reliable of any of the clusters according to 23andme's own analysis. What they basically did is use the French Lyon sample, which is the only one that was available for a long time, and the Swiss samples. The southern French sample now available was not included. A high number for this basically tells you how "Swiss like" you are, because there are a lot more samples for that. Sardinian isn't much good either.

    Scroll down to Testing and Validation at the following link:
    https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/

    The "map" results are totally predictable if you know how 23andme works.

    By misinterpreting these results novices can be led astray.

    Oh, in searching for the link for this white paper I discovered that in more recent white papers 23andme is telling people their results go back 500 years and more. Just google 23andme white papers and you'll find it. Of course, they're not going to acknowledge how often they were told that, including by me.


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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I have made a few maps based on the data available so far. Needless to say that the frequencies will need to be adjusted once I get more data, especially for Spain, southern France and Central Europe. I extrapolated in some regions with no data when the admixture could not possibly have been above 1%.



    Looks like the distribution of R1b-L21 combined with specifically Anglo-Saxon and Frisian clades of R1b-U106.



    If this component is as high in Austria as in South Germany, then it could represent Hallstatt and La Tène ancestry. The two peaks are Switzerland and Wallonia, which were two centres of the La Tène culture. The map matches fairly well the distribution of Celtic branches of R1b-U152 (once Italic ones are removed).



    Reminiscent of the distribution of Y-haplogroup I1, but with a sharper gradient (higher in Sweden-Norway, lower outside Scandinavia).



    A distribution that seems to include mostly the non-Celtic/Germanic ancestry in Italy. Apart from the Aegean Islands, this admixture is quite distinct from the Greek one, despite the heavy Greek colonisation of southern Italy. Therefore 23andMe seems to have cut (inadvertently?) the depth of ancestry to about 2000 years ago, right during the Roman period. As a result there is a good chance that this Italian admixture outside Italy corresponds to Roman ancestry, and indeed it is only found with in borders of the Roman Empire. I have a few samples from Turkey but this component varies hugely between individuals, from 1.5% to 10% (near Trabzon).

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    That's great. My aim is to make distribution maps for each component once I get enough data for each country.

    In my samples, the highest French & German is from Wallonia in Belgium (70%), and the highest Scandinavian are a Swede (89.6%) and a Norwegian (87%), who both exceed the figures in this map. The Norwegian is from Oslo, but I am not sure that's also where his ancestors come from. The southern Swedish-Norwegian border near Oslo may have the highest Scandinavian. Incidentally that's also where haplogroup I1 peaks (about 50% of the population).
    Thanks, Maciamo! I'll update him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    From the same person:
    (rounding off)
    Portugal (n=30)
    - Southern European: 81.2
    italian: 5.7
    balkan: 0.1
    iberian: 59.0
    broadly S.E.: 16.2
    - Northwestern European: 11.8
    french & german: 0.9
    british & irish: 2.5
    broadly NW.E.: 8.3
    - Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
    - Broadly European: 5.1
    - MENA: 0.4
    - Sub-Saharan: 0.2

    Serbia (n=16)
    - Southern European: 81.2
    italian: 0.3
    balkan: 75.5
    iberian: 0.1
    broadly S.E.: 5.3
    - Northwestern European: 2.0
    french & german: 0.3
    broadly NW.E.: 1.6
    - Eastern European: 9.0
    - Broadly European: 7.4
    - East Asian: 0.1
    - South Asian: 0.1
    Portugal, Serbia, and now Denmark, from the same person.

    Denmark (n=27)
    - Southern European: 0.3
    italian: 0.1
    broadly S.E.: 0.1
    - Northwestern European: 97.5
    french & german: 7.9
    british & irish: 17.1
    scandinavian: 38.5
    broadly NW.E.: 34.0
    - Eastern European: 0.4
    - Broadly European: 1.6

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Everything depends on 23andme's reference samples, which, other than the few academic samples they use, are not scientifically chosen, and therefore might not be representative of the areas involved. Many more testees at 23andme are Irish than English, because most clients are from the U.S. and there's a big population here that identifies as Irish. Any people of English descent usually consider themselves just "American".

    In Italy, for example, the dot looks to be between Rome and Campania, which makes perfect sense as most of their testees are from southern Italy, but they have the big block of Tuscans from the 1000 genomes project which pulls the centrum northward. That dot does not mean that's where the most genetically "Italian" people can be found.

    As for the "French-German" cluster, that is one of the least reliable of any of the clusters according to 23andme's own analysis. What they basically did is use the French Lyon sample, which is the only one that was available for a long time, and the Swiss samples. The southern French sample now available was not included. A high number for this basically tells you how "Swiss like" you are, because there are a lot more samples for that. Sardinian isn't much good either.

    Scroll down to Testing and Validation at the following link:
    https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/

    The "map" results are totally predictable if you know how 23andme works.

    By misinterpreting these results novices can be led astray.

    Oh, in searching for the link for this white paper I discovered that in more recent white papers 23andme is telling people their results go back 500 years and more. Just google 23andme white papers and you'll find it. Of course, they're not going to acknowledge how often they were told that, including by me.
    Thanks for the info. It was interesting to read the differences between precision and recall and how a lot of northwestern European gets tossed in the broadly category. I still don't understand how people in east central France would have 20% British and Irish with 90% precision. That's like almost one out of four grandparents. Is it because of ancient DNA markers that exist in both populations?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Some new people have shared with me, so here are some new averages:

    Albania (n=12)
    Balkan 86.86%
    Italian 2.72%
    Broadly South European 7.65%
    East European 0.43%
    Broadly Northwest European 0.44%
    Middle Eastern & North African 0.02%
    East Asian 0.1%

    FYR Macedonia (n=4)
    Balkan 71.38%
    Italian 2.92%
    Broadly South European 13.1%
    East European 6.1%
    Broadly Northwest European 1.05%
    Middle Eastern & North African 0.02%
    East Asian 0.15%

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    Thanks for the info. It was interesting to read the differences between precision and recall and how a lot of northwestern European gets tossed in the broadly category. I still don't understand how people in east central France would have 20% British and Irish with 90% precision. That's like almost one out of four grandparents. Is it because of ancient DNA markers that exist in both populations?
    I think that's the explanation for a lot of it. For years 23andme stuck with the "only 500 years" in the past mantra, when it was patently absurd. The issue is that some of the admixture might be from very recent migrations, some in the past. There's no way of knowing, and in some cases it might "stop too short", i.e. not be giving you the whole story because it isn't going back far enough. That's the problem with using algorithms based on modern populations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post



    A distribution that seems to include mostly the non-Celtic/Germanic ancestry in Italy. Apart from the Aegean Islands, this admixture is quite distinct from the Greek one, despite the heavy Greek colonisation of southern Italy. Therefore 23andMe seems to have cut (inadvertently?) the depth of ancestry to about 2000 years ago, right during the Roman period. As a result there is a good chance that this Italian admixture outside Italy corresponds to Roman ancestry, and indeed it is only found with in borders of the Roman Empire. I have a few samples from Turkey but this component varies hugely between individuals, from 1.5% to 10% (near Trabzon).
    I am Cappadocian Greek and I score 36% Italian. Of course no Roman ancestry in my case (and many other Anatolian Greeks who tend to score really high Italian).

    Cypriots score also high Italian.

    Sent from my Robin using Tapatalk

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    What populations get the highest Broad results for Southern Europe specifically?

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