Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: From Doggerland to the Ural?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Walhaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-16
    Location
    Central/East Texas
    Posts
    13

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b1a

    Ethnic group
    Generically Northern European and Iberian with a significant portion of West and North African
    Country: USA - Texas



    Lightbulb From Doggerland to the Ural?

    So I've read time and time again that I-M223 originated in Doggerland. If that's the case, how did it make its way from there to the homeland of the Yamna culture near the Ural river? Am I misinterpreting something? Is there a map of the migrations?

  2. #2
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    9,497


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Where did you read such nonsense? It's impossible to say exactly where in Europe I2-M223 originated because it was a lineage of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, who were by nature nomadic and roamed all over the continent. This is how some I2-M223 subclades were found in western Europe (some samples were confirmed in Megalithic Spain and France), while others ended up in the Pontic Steppe or other parts of eastern Europe.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Walhaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-16
    Location
    Central/East Texas
    Posts
    13

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b1a

    Ethnic group
    Generically Northern European and Iberian with a significant portion of West and North African
    Country: USA - Texas



    The old version of 23andme, BritainsDNA, and the FTDNA project on I-M223 all state that it originaged in (or, in the case of BritainsDNA, eventually made it to) Doggerland. 23andme also mentions a possible association with the Gravettians. Am I possibly thinking of a subclade of I-M223? I read a paper by a geneticist named Gábor Balogh that mentioned origins in Doggerland several times throughout.

  4. #4
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    9,497


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Walhaz View Post
    The old version of 23andme, BritainsDNA, and the FTDNA project on I-M223 all state that it originaged in (or, in the case of BritainsDNA, eventually made it to) Doggerland. 23andme also mentions a possible association with the Gravettians. Am I possibly thinking of a subclade of I-M223? I read a paper by a geneticist named Gábor Balogh that mentioned origins in Doggerland several times throughout.
    That's one more reason not to trust what testing companies say. They have no way to know where it originated apart saying something very broad like Europe. As for its presence in the Gravettian culture, it is simply impossible as I-M223 formed only 17,000 years ago, some 5,000 years after the end of the Gravettian.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Walhaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-16
    Location
    Central/East Texas
    Posts
    13

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b1a

    Ethnic group
    Generically Northern European and Iberian with a significant portion of West and North African
    Country: USA - Texas



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    That's one more reason not to trust what testing companies say. They have no way to know where it originated apart saying something very broad like Europe. As for its presence in the Gravettian culture, it is simply impossible as I-M223 formed only 17,000 years ago, some 5,000 years after the end of the Gravettian.
    Interesting, so where does Doggerland come into play? Any idea which subclade that would be?

    What about the Yamna?

  6. #6
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,730


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Walhaz View Post
    Interesting, so where does Doggerland come into play? Any idea which subclade that would be?

    What about the Yamna?
    TMRCA of haplogroup I2 is 22 ka
    Doggerland drowned 14000 years later
    It was full of different subclades of I2

  7. #7
    Regular Member Walhaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-16
    Location
    Central/East Texas
    Posts
    13

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b1a

    Ethnic group
    Generically Northern European and Iberian with a significant portion of West and North African
    Country: USA - Texas



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    TMRCA of haplogroup I2 is 22 ka
    Doggerland drowned 14000 years later
    It was full of different subclades of I2
    Thank you, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Do you know which subclades? I've read that I2a2a is one of them, but would like to verify - are there any reputable sources that aren't paywalled, besides EUpedia itself?

  8. #8
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,730


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Walhaz View Post
    Thank you, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Do you know which subclades? I've read that I2a2a is one of them, but would like to verify - are there any reputable sources that aren't paywalled, besides EUpedia itself?
    I don't think any reliable sources exist on that.
    Just look at Motala, 7.5 ka how many different subclades were around - many of them went extinct.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Walhaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-16
    Location
    Central/East Texas
    Posts
    13

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L3e2b1a

    Ethnic group
    Generically Northern European and Iberian with a significant portion of West and North African
    Country: USA - Texas



    So this is completely false?

    "Haplogroup I-M438 Migration

    Origin: I-M438 diverged from its brother haplogroup about 28,000 years ago. Then, at the end of the Ice Age about 12,000 to 14,000 years ago, I-M438 expanded northward from Doggerland and radiated outward from the Balkans into the eastern half of the continent. Today it is most abundant in eastern Europe and on the Mediterranean island of Sardinia, where it is found in 40% of the male population.

    Highlight: Scientists speculate that I-M438 is associated with the ancient civilization of Doggerland. Doggerland, coined a real-life Atlantis, was a civilization in an area that is now covered by the North Sea."

    From 23andme.

  10. #10
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,730


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    i'm afraid so

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •