Society Europe is racist

like if we wake up one day and find the old nation states borders were erased and we are all under a one world government ? someone took the time and energy to imagine just that here.
It could be achieved by education. It is a state of mind issue, not borders or nations. I consider everybody equal on this planet in human rights. As long as either of us breaks these human rights, I let you live, you let me live.
It doesn't mean to live half a world away, so we don't interact. It means as my neighbor or a friend. Once you start thinking that we all belong to the same group, there is no one left to ridicule and hate.
State of mind.
Waking up one day is not enough, it will take extremely hard work to get there.
 
I would not use the word colonisation but the words economic expansion. I think you hate the Chinese. The Japanese had its own economic expansion from its high economic growth prevailed from the mid-1960s through the 1970s with the arrival of a mass-consumption society, as technological innovations spurred the expansion of manufacturing facilities and sales of such consumer durables as television sets, refrigerators, and automobiles.

I don't see any westerners complaining about them. The government in Africa can decide whom they want to do business with. It is not your call. Just like the government of the philippines.

Nicknamed the Land Down Under, Australia is an island economy that strongly benefits from its close proximity to the vast markets of China and Japan which together represent almost half (46.4%) of all Australian export sales.

In 2015, Australia signed the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement (FTA), which opened tariff-free markets for agricultural, natural resources, energy and manufacturing products and related services. Some experts estimate that the China-Australia FTA will add more than $20 billion in bilateral trade between the two countries.

Maybe you can call this colonization too...

Already trade between Africa and China has grown at a breathtaking pace. It was $10.5 billion in 2000, $40 billion in 2005 and $166 billion in 2011. China is currently Africa's largest trading partner, having surpassed the US in 2009.

Well there are a lot of countries in Africa, there is only one country in Australia...
Good point Minty, I agree. The only thing I'm afraid of is that many of these investments abroad are planned by Chinese government and not growing off a free market. In this case many of them will fail, and money will be wasted.
I like your pointing out Japanese example. Many Americans developed Japanese phobia in the past and were scared of "Japs buying America" and losing their country to foreigners. Well, with time people got used to it, nobody cares anymore, nothing bad happened, America is still here.
 
"Way of life is not a race". To some degree it is. Race is strongly correlated with way of life & various social & cultural phenomena. This has a lot to do with "identity" & the biases them stem therefrom. It's very difficult to make alien peoples with alien histories adopt the identity of out-group members & civilizations. Basically it doesn't happen. A minority of a population might assimilate, but on the group level it's virtually impossible, until & unless the group converts en masse & relinquishes their prior identity. While you're correct that "race" is only one basis for tribalism (religion is another, class is another), it's probably both the strongest & most pronounced source of tribalism & division, not to mention the most natural & typical, since it's rooted in shared genes & biological interrelatedness. As such, it is arguably the most rational form of human organization. In light of its obvious & indelible import soft totalitarian Western power structures have taken to outlawing even the mere acknowledgement of it. This is because people know deep down race is significant. If they didn't, they wouldn't go to such great lengths to eliminate it & to deny it. Their tactics betray their fears.


This is stunningly naive. Hunter gatherers are not pouring into the Western World by the millions. If they were it could be a serious problem. Indeed, the mass movement of people has been a serious problem for Europe throughout history & prehistory. Much of Western Europe is like what 50% R1b? You don't get those kinds of numbers without something akin to genocide. Ever heard of the Huns? The Mongols? The mass movement of people will often trigger the outright collapse of a civilization. The irony is, you think you're going to import hordes of foreign peoples, many of whom hate you & want to destroy you by any means necessary, & yet maintain your civilization & way of life. You won't. Your civilization will be transformed by the values, interests & goals of the invaders. This is how it works on earth. You can talk all you want about just letting them live their lives. But Islam for example is not going to just grant you the same privilege. Islam has a way, pretty much everywhere it goes, of ensuring those living in its midst submit & comply to its mandates. You may be some sort of confused libertarian, but just because you are doesn't mean others are.



I don't have a particularly strong tribal identity. It's healthy to acknowledge that other tribes have interests & goals, & that those interests & goals may be quite adverse to your own. It's dangerously delusional to deny this. Taken to its most extreme it can even be collectively suicidal. You don't think interethnic conflict is something to worry about? Tell that to the Jews, the Kosovars, the Armenians, the Tibetans... need I go on? Shoot, tell it to the Lebanese or the Indians. Genocide is not the only form of interethnic conflict. Most interethnic conflict is more gradually transformational. You're caricaturizing my position because you can't defeat it on honest terms. Your crypto-Marxist beliefs in absolute human equality & eternal peace will not save you from reality. Life is not some beauty pageant. You have this silly notion in your head that if you do X, others will. No, they won't. You've been lulled into a trance by decades of opulence, decadence & apathy. The West is a victim of its own success. Do you know what the word "lemming" means?



My Kazakhstan comment was a joke. You're just a bit slow.


E-V13 is in all likelihood native to Europe. Its distribution is massively European. It has been in Europe circa 10,000 years. E-V13 is likely the primary lineage of the ancient Greeks, the progenitors of Western civilization. Tell me more about where E-V13 belongs though.

What a bunch of twaddle. America is a perfect example of things that you say can't happen happening. You seriously need to open your eyes.
 
"Way of life is not a race". To some degree it is. Race is strongly correlated with way of life & various social & cultural phenomena.
Relly? Remind us what was the race who for thousands of years was murdering everyone who was of different religion, ethnicity or race. After murdering 60 million of "enemies" last WW2, the same race became most tolerant in the world.
So which way of life white race correlates with?!
A simple example that you don't understand the world and how it works. You also use racism very loosely, apparently in cultural and religious context too.

In light of its obvious & indelible import soft totalitarian Western power structures have taken to outlawing even the mere acknowledgement of it. This is because people know deep down race is significant. If they didn't, they wouldn't go to such great lengths to eliminate it & to deny it. Their tactics betray their fears.
You will never understand people if you extrapolate your psyche, fears and phobias on every one of us.


Much of Western Europe is like what 50% R1b? You don't get those kinds of numbers without something akin to genocide. Ever heard of the Huns? The Mongols? The mass movement of people will often trigger the outright collapse of a civilization. The irony is, you think you're going to import hordes of foreign peoples, many of whom hate you & want to destroy you by any means necessary, & yet maintain your civilization & way of life. You won't. Your civilization will be transformed by the values, interests & goals of the invaders. This is how it works on earth. You can talk all you want about just letting them live their lives. But Islam for example is not going to just grant you the same privilege. Islam has a way, pretty much everywhere it goes, of ensuring those living in its midst submit & comply to its mandates. You may be some sort of confused libertarian, but just because you are doesn't mean others are.
Phobia. I have Muslim neighbors and Muslim mayer is running my city, I employ Muslim tradesmen, I'm listening to Fareed Zakaria every week, and I wouldn't know they were Muslims if this fact wasn't mentioned on occasions. Normal people like most of us with same goals in life.
We need to fight extremism in all the forms however. The ones who break basic human rights, they ones who won't let me or you live... Puting all Muslims in the same hateful beg is just wrong and against idea of human rights, against principia on which Western World is built.



I don't have a particularly strong tribal identity. It's healthy to acknowledge that other tribes have interests & goals, & that those interests & goals may be quite adverse to your own. It's dangerously delusional to deny this. Taken to its most extreme it can even be collectively suicidal. You don't think interethnic conflict is something to worry about? Tell that to the Jews, the Kosovars, the Armenians, the Tibetans... need I go on? Shoot, tell it to the Lebanese or the Indians. Genocide is not the only form of interethnic conflict. Most interethnic conflict is more gradually transformational. You're caricaturizing my position because you can't defeat it on honest terms. Your crypto-Marxist beliefs in absolute human equality & eternal peace will not save you from reality. Life is not some beauty pageant. You have this silly notion in your head that if you do X, others will. No, they won't. You've been lulled into a trance by decades of opulence, decadence & apathy. The West is a victim of its own success. Do you know what the word "lemming" means?
We should start naming your phobias, there are quite few exposed already. You are afraid of Muslims, you are afraid of Marxists, the leftists, the libertarians. You are afraid of different cultures and different way of life. I'm sure the list will not stop here, and people of your character have many more phobias, and are also homophobic, chauvinistic and misogynistic, together with long list of conspiracy theories. Explaining how the bad world wants to get you.
Have you visited Eupedia before under other elias(s)?


My Kazakhstan comment was a joke. You're just a bit slow.

E-V13 is in all likelihood native to Europe. Its distribution is massively European. It has been in Europe circa 10,000 years. E-V13 is likely the primary lineage of the ancient Greeks, the progenitors of Western civilization. Tell me more about where E-V13 belongs though.
You didn't get a point of my remark. It was about a hypothetical racist giving same medicine to other one (you).
 
What a bunch of twaddle. America is a perfect example of things that you say can't happen happening. You seriously need to open your eyes.
I'm afraid he can't. Phobias are emotional problems most of all. We might not have a choice but to ban this person.
 
The main problem with liberalism and multiculturalism that it's a forced process and not necessarily enrich a society but makes more divisions between different people which leads to riots and divisions inside a nation. Japan is relatively a homogeneous society and we can see how they thrive because of homogeneity and sociology-cultural stability.
Europe was able to thrive due to cultural homogeneity. Europeans as a society recognized they can conquer and thrive by co-work then the main goal was to establish colonies across the planet and externalize their cultural and economic based influence on a global level.
Wars don't seem to make sense anymore as almost in any nations today there are the same economical powers which controls the whole system by the law to control money and influence it's economy.
The European union has an obvious goal - To unite all nations and destabilize regional differences, racial mixing is one way of the many to break down the racial-cultural based homogeneity.
Europe is not free enough from dogmatic, primitive racial views yet, because according to our leaders just like how our internet friend Lebrook thinks we need to forget our identity and become world citizens, so we can be more easily manageable and less independent to global powers and multinational corporations which would lead to an One World Government (New World Order) as Geroge Bush been saying for a while.
Multinational corporations and Investors don't like cultural homogeneity, because it makes the steps of foreign element harder to enter against regional based concepts. Just see how Iran today is the main enemy, because it's laws and economy isn't dependent by the global powers.
We're in a trap to whether assimilate and become global citizens or remain independent. Both has it's own side effects and on a long term way the former will win, as a single state isn't powerful against a global power which has it's own military (NATO) and own government (UN).
In a long term we will turn into a technocratic society just like we've been read in the fantasy book called "Brawe New World"
Aldoux Huxley was one of the smartest man to predict technological and cultural changes for a long period of time.
An over organized society will kill freedom and how can citizens have it's own power and independence against an invisible control and government? We can believe in Santa and believe that humanity and it's leaders have a good intention to make a world peace instead of World Contol, but that's just the optimistic view and we already know the true human nature which is evil and knows no God or religion when it comes to validate it's own goals. It's easier to murder millions when we don't interact with them, we don't know their life story and to us they're nothing but terrorists, radicals and guerillas. We can get used to a black or white view that "either you're with us or against us"
With modern technology we can murder millions by drones and play a real life video game.

Today almost every region follow the same political, cultural interests and this lead to a mass culture and society. The only region where this globalization has problems to establish it's cultural and economical influence is the so called Arabic world.
Arabic world is successful because of the same recognition that religion as a way to homogenize people works and make them more easily controllable. A white Syrian or Muslim Albanian sees a Muslim Sudanese as his brother but this White Syrian would see an European as his enemy regardless of skin color, because culture is more forward than racial based hierarchy as most people would think. - The only racial based cultural segregation only works in prisons, because the only thing in common a White person has with another (at least in America) is the skin tone.
 
The main problem with liberalism and multiculturalism that it's a forced process and not necessarily enrich a society but makes more divisions between different people which leads to riots and divisions inside a nation. Japan is relatively a homogeneous society and we can see how they thrive because of homogeneity and sociology-cultural stability.
Europe was able to thrive due to cultural homogeneity. Europeans as a society recognized they can conquer and thrive by co-work then the main goal was to establish colonies across the planet and externalize their cultural and economic based influence on a global level.
When? During WW1 or WW2 when speaking a different language was enough to get killed in Europe! Do you have amnesia or what?!
Europe only thrived in last 70 years due to understanding that we are all Europeans, no matter of religion, ethnicity or looks. Before that there was a major war in Europe every 20 years or so, not mentioning local constant wars and revolutions. For god sake, read history again. You romanticised this old conservative Europe of few Empires and the rest of subjected ethnicities and nations, where only elite was free to chose destiny, there rest couldn't even leave farms. By today's standards, most people were enslaved in Europe, either by elite or by neighboring powers.
Oh, Europeans thrived, lol.
The only reason Europe got out of this hell hole is due to capitalist free market economy, science, education. Thanks to these Europe got wealthy and embraced modern Western values, listed below.


What we see today is that everybody more or less follow the same political, cultural trends and this leads to a mass culture and society. The only region where this globalization has problems to establish it's cultural and economical influence is the so called Arabic world.
Yes, trends of freedom, democracy, liberalization, inclusiveness, equality and tolerance. This is what stabilized Europe and made it peaceful finally. The rest is still different all over Europe, different languages, religions, food, customs, way of life.
 
What a bunch of twaddle. America is a perfect example of things that you say can't happen happening. You seriously need to open your eyes.

1) What do you think America is an example of...? Let me guess, a shining city on a hill? LOL. This I'm really anxious to hear! LOL. This is going to be rich. Tell me, what is America an example of? A soft totalitarian, mass-surveillance police state, with a first world GDP but a third world gini coefficient, led by a tin-pot carnival barker? Or is it a wonderfully diverse, multiracial utopia marked by the free & peaceful coexistence of disparate peoples who hug each other on the subway? You can't have it both ways. You may know more than me about some of the issues on Eupedia, but you're in my territory now. It isn't going to end well for you in this debate. America is a disaster. It is in a state culturally & civilizationally where I don't even want to speculate about the future. We are a very troubled society, though you wouldn't know that if you watched the evening news. You'd think everything was just dandy.

2) Sub-Saharan Africans have been on the North American continent for half a millennium. They are not assimilated on the group level by any stretch of the imagination. They have different cultural norms, vastly different crimes rates, different musical, cultural & artistic forms, etc. etc. etc. This is not an assimilated population. Certain groups of Americans did not & do not assimilate to Western European norms. It's more accurate to say that Americans assimilated to the norms of various immigrant groups, and governmental power, stability & control has maintained order where culture has been unable to.

3) America doesn't have a culture. Anymore. America is essentially an economy & nothing more.

4) If you take exception to certain of my claims, please address my claims, & avoid vague generalities like the comment above. It's "twaddle" you say? What exactly is twaddle? Pray tell.
 
urope only thrived in last 70 years due to understanding that we are all Europeans, no matter of religion, ethnicity or looks.

Why did millions of people die and still in a few parts of the world?
Just for a few who handles too much power in their hands and over abuse it. You know a system is abnormal when you have someone who owns billions of dollars and you have someone living on the corner to own nothing but debts.
I guess you have to be extremely narcissist or brainwashed to believe the so called Capitalist civilization will lead to equality or freedom. The IBM, and other multinational corporations who sponsored Hitler and it's government cared 2 cents on the lives of the millions who died because of war? Would Hitler be able to control Germany and have access to technological advantages without the support of Wall Street and the City of London? The answer is most likely no.
Would Hitler murder the Jews based on biological and racial views if the so called "eugenics" wouldn't been imported to Germany and strongly influenced the views of the Nazi Germany.

the modern history of eugenics began in the early 20th century when a popular eugenics movement emerged in the United Kingdom[8] and spread to many countries including the United States, Canada[9] and most European countries.

Without World Wars there wouldn't be UN and European Union because it helped to establish new concepts and bring the nations close together, as the sufferings made us to realize it's better to live under control of the main ruling class, so in an objective view it was overall good to happen as we entered to a new level of freedom.
Each nations gave up their cultural and economical sovereign, but where will this lead to? One World Government and a world controlled by a few Bankers and Multinational corporations. Capitalism on a long term works only for the fittest to survive.
It's impossible for small companies to race against multinational corporations. I guess this is what someone call "elephant in the room" effect. Some of us are too big to fall, just like we're too small and dependent on a system we can't see through and we're being unable to control our own lives but let a few scientists, politicians to decide what good for us? But what happens when billionaires sponsor each government and taxes against the middle class? This is what actually happens in most parts of the Western World.
We should realize that most leaders often turn out to be sociopaths who have no feelings towards other humans and only believe in their elitist agendas. Humanity is NOT capable to handle control and it's just a question of time when something wrong happens again.
It's very early to estimate this system as better than the ones were before. Not even 100 years ago when wars happened and guess what? People died because of technological process. Without advanced technology the numbers of deaths would had been far less, except if we believe swords can do more damage than hydrogen bombs or tanks.
Without the invention of Atomic energy the accidents in Hirosima and Nagasaki most likely wouldn't had happen. So overall technology can be as destructive from a different point of view.
We use internet and communicate though phones, we can see the good things that happen by technological advantages, but we refuse to see other side effects we've been going through. People may look for happiness on the outside but refuse to look inside and search for the meanings of life. Humanity has conquered the moon, yet we're still stuck in the same egoistical, materialistic views which makes most of our sufferings.


You romanticized this old conservative Europe of few Empires and the rest of subjected ethnicity and nations, where only elite was free to chose destiny, there rest couldn't even leave farms. By today's standards, most people were enslaved in Europe, either by elite or by neighboring powers.

I have the feeling you've slept during history classes when christianity and it's movements were taught to make a culturally homogeneous Europe. Without Christianity, Roman empire and other influential periods the so called Europe wouldn't exist.

The only reason Europe got out of this hell hole is due to capitalist free market economy, science, education. Thanks to these Europe got wealthy and embraced modern Western values, listed below.

As long as you're not 500 years old, you can't compare ex societies if the living quality that time was better or worse, but it's true the people who grew up in the 60's and enjoyed the freedom listening to Beatles most likely consider that time as the golden age, even if they were poor and slept under the sky.
One thing for sure that technology has prevented the high rates of deaths due to better hygiene, but overpopulation in the third have ended to deaths due to hunger in most parts of Africa, where deaths by natural were helping to control population growth.
I guess you haven't heard of aristocrats, farmers, and traders who made their livings regardless who ruled and controlled the state.
There were always a class which had to suffer just like today. No region of the world is perfect to prevent the existence of lower social classes. We can believe in an utopia that the so called liberality will bring us an endless freedom, but that's not how it works.
 
Relly? Remind us what was the race who for thousands of years was murdering everyone who was of different religion, ethnicity or race. After murdering 60 million of "enemies" last WW2, the same race became most tolerant in the world.
So which way of life white race correlates with?!
A simple example that you don't understand the world and how it works. You also use racism very loosely, apparently in cultural and religious context too.

You will never understand people if you extrapolate your psyche, fears and phobias on every one of us.


Phobia. I have Muslim neighbors and Muslim mayer is running my city, I employ Muslim tradesmen, I'm listening to Fareed Zakaria every week, and I wouldn't know they were Muslims if this fact wasn't mentioned on occasions. Normal people like most of us with same goals in life.
We need to fight extremism in all the forms however. The ones who break basic human rights, they ones who won't let me or you live... Puting all Muslims in the same hateful beg is just wrong and against idea of human rights, against principia on which Western World is built.



We should start naming your phobias, there are quite few exposed already. You are afraid of Muslims, you are afraid of Marxists, the leftists, the libertarians. You are afraid of different cultures and different way of life. I'm sure the list will not stop here, and people of your character have many more phobias, and are also homophobic, chauvinistic and misogynistic, together with long list of conspiracy theories. Explaining how the bad world wants to get you.
Have you visited Eupedia before under other elias(s)?


You didn't get a point of my remark. It was about a hypothetical racist giving same medicine to other one (you).

1) I saw a gay man thrown from a roof last month. This week I saw a man get put in a cage which was then submerged in water, drowning him, merely because he was a christian. I saw a black Muslim convert who had received a privileged upbringing drive into a crowd in London the other day, plowing over dozens of innocent people. I heard about another man so driven by hate that he drove headlong into a christmas gathering a few months back. Every day there is a new gang-rape in some part of northern Europe on account of your beloved "diversity". I hear Swedish women in many major cities are terrified to even go out at night now. A "phobia" is an irrational fear. The fear of my children living in a nation like the Congo or Somalia or Saudi Arabia is not an irrational fear. It is quite rational, eminently rational really. I'm very welcoming to the right kind of immigrants. I'm no "xenophobe". However, all people are not good immigrants, & all populations are not assimilable on the group level. You don't like the reality of things? Maybe you can wave your wand & make the sky pink, or shout at the planets on account of their elliptical orbits? Perhaps you should excommunicate me or burn me at the stake? You're clever. Surely you can come up with some solution for the thought criminals out there armed with words you have no good response to.

2) Ban me? For what? Ideas? Scary ideas? Afraid of a little debate? Are you losing that badly? Yeah, you're not a totalitarian. I'm the "bad guy". Riiighhhhttt.

3) I understood the precise point of your remark. Like your other remarks it was silly. So I demolished it. Like your other points.

4) Marxism killed 100 million people in the 20th century alone. I don't think fear of Marxism qualifies as a phobia. I'm not fearful of libertarianism. I just think it needs to be properly fettered. I'm not homophobic at all. Quite the contrary really. That's ironic however coming from the guy promoting the mass-scale importation of the most homophobic cult in human history. You throw around so many "-ist" accusations I can't even keep track. This is the tell-tale sign of a committed Cultural Marxist with a serious idea deficiency. You use these perpetual "ist" terms not descriptively, but to control the debate. They really don't work on Westerners any longer. The period of Sovietesque conditioning has ended.
 
Relly? Remind us what was the race who for thousands of years was murdering everyone who was of different religion, ethnicity or race. After murdering 60 million of "enemies" last WW2, the same race became most tolerant in the world.
So which way of life white race correlates with?!
A simple example that you don't understand the world and how it works. You also use racism very loosely, apparently in cultural and religious context too.

You will never understand people if you extrapolate your psyche, fears and phobias on every one of us.


Phobia. I have Muslim neighbors and Muslim mayer is running my city, I employ Muslim tradesmen, I'm listening to Fareed Zakaria every week, and I wouldn't know they were Muslims if this fact wasn't mentioned on occasions. Normal people like most of us with same goals in life.
We need to fight extremism in all the forms however. The ones who break basic human rights, they ones who won't let me or you live... Puting all Muslims in the same hateful beg is just wrong and against idea of human rights, against principia on which Western World is built.



We should start naming your phobias, there are quite few exposed already. You are afraid of Muslims, you are afraid of Marxists, the leftists, the libertarians. You are afraid of different cultures and different way of life. I'm sure the list will not stop here, and people of your character have many more phobias, and are also homophobic, chauvinistic and misogynistic, together with long list of conspiracy theories. Explaining how the bad world wants to get you.
Have you visited Eupedia before under other elias(s)?


You didn't get a point of my remark. It was about a hypothetical racist giving same medicine to other one (you).

1) Remind you of the race which was murdering everyone but themselves throughout history? Ok, the human race. LOL. That's what people do. They kill, they engage in conquest, they seek territory and land. You think because whites stopped doing this stuff, everyone else stopped. They didn't, genius.

2) Violence is not specific to any particular group. Sure, there is a strong argument to be made that whites historically have been better at it. The problem is whites have also been better at a lot of other things, like math, developing novel medicines & technologies (don't make me list them all), producing governmental & legal systems that promote social stability & reduce intra-ethnic violence, philosophy, etc.

3) I don't use racism all that loosely. The Western power structure however uses racism very loosely. I read a news article last week about how cheeseburgers were racist. E'rything is rayciss!!! I think I have a pretty thorough understanding of the term. The reality is it is used very loosely in the modern West & refers to various different & distinct psychological, ideological & social phenomena.

4) I am not afraid of "different cultures or different peoples". Of course being afraid of different cultures & peoples is often quite sensible, given that other tribes often do pose threats to oneself & one's people. Indeed, if being wary & fearful of foreigners didn't have enormous biological/evolutionary value it wouldn't be so strongly selected for. However, yes, there are certain populations & cultures that I have a pretty definitively negative view of. For example, I have a negative view of Sharia law. Do you have a positive view of Sharia law? If you don't have a positive view of Sharia law, you're a xenophobe racist fascist Hitlerite, & it's time to ban you from this forum.
 
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When? During WW1 or WW2 when speaking a different language was enough to get killed in Europe! Do you have amnesia or what?!
Europe only thrived in last 70 years due to understanding that we are all Europeans, no matter of religion, ethnicity or looks. Before that there was a major war in Europe every 20 years or so, not mentioning local constant wars and revolutions. For god sake, read history again. You romanticised this old conservative Europe of few Empires and the rest of subjected ethnicities and nations, where only elite was free to chose destiny, there rest couldn't even leave farms. By today's standards, most people were enslaved in Europe, either by elite or by neighboring powers.
Oh, Europeans thrived, lol.
The only reason Europe got out of this hell hole is due to capitalist free market economy, science, education. Thanks to these Europe got wealthy and embraced modern Western values, listed below.


Yes, trends of freedom, democracy, liberalization, inclusiveness, equality and tolerance. This is what stabilized Europe and made it peaceful finally. The rest is still different all over Europe, different languages, religions, food, customs, way of life.

It's incredible isn't it? He looks at the tens upon tens of millions of Europeans fighting over languages, religions, a plot of earth, and sees homogeneity and success. These people should read the memoirs or even just find the old people who lived through World War II and ask them about it.

I had to read the following three times before I could believe he really said it: "Arabic world is successful because of the same recognition that religion as a way to homogenize people works and make them more easily controllable."

The Arabic world is a success. Can you believe it? Iran is to be emulated but American is the enemy. All I can say is WOW!.
 
I think the term racism should be used only for racial supremacists. Other people aren't really racist. In-group favouritism is normal.

Most people think with stereotypes, though.

I was reading that a few hours ago:
Upon the right of the Suebian Sea the Aestian nations reside, who use the same customs and attire with the Suebians; their language more resembles that of Britain. They worship the Mother of the Gods. As the characteristic of their national superstition, they wear the images of wild boars. This alone serves them for arms, this is the safeguard of all, and by this every worshipper of the Goddess is secured even amidst his foes. Rare amongst them is the use of weapons of iron, but frequent that of clubs. In producing of grain and the other fruits of the earth, they labour with more assiduity and patience than is suitable to the usual laziness of Germans. Nay, they even search the deep, and of all the rest are the only people who gather amber. They call it glesum, and find it amongst the shallows and upon the very shore. But, according to the ordinary incuriosity and ignorance of Barbarians, they have neither learnt, nor do they inquire, what is its nature, or from what cause it is produced. In truth it lay long neglected amongst the other gross discharges of the sea; till from our luxury, it gained a name and value. To themselves it is of no use: they gather it rough, they expose it in pieces coarse and unpolished, and for it receive a price with wonder

That's an example of a stereotype. I chose it because it's funny that the 'Germans' were the 'lazy' back then.
 
1) What do you think America is an example of...? Let me guess, a shining city on a hill? LOL. This I'm really anxious to hear! LOL. This is going to be rich. Tell me, what is America an example of? A soft totalitarian, mass-surveillance police state, with a first world GDP but a third world gini coefficient, led by a tin-pot carnival barker? Or is it a wonderfully diverse, multiracial utopia marked by the free & peaceful coexistence of disparate peoples who hug each other on the subway? You can't have it both ways. You may know more than me about some of the issues on Eupedia, but you're in my territory now. It isn't going to end well for you in this debate. America is a disaster. It is in a state culturally & civilizationally where I don't even want to speculate about the future. We are a very troubled society, though you wouldn't know that if you watched the evening news. You'd think everything was just dandy.

2) Sub-Saharan Africans have been on the North American continent for half a millennium. They are not assimilated on the group level by any stretch of the imagination. They have different cultural norms, vastly different crimes rates, different musical, cultural & artistic forms, etc. etc. etc. This is not an assimilated population. Certain groups of Americans did not & do not assimilate to Western European norms. It's more accurate to say that Americans assimilated to the norms of various immigrant groups, and governmental power, stability & control has maintained order where culture has been unable to.

3) America doesn't have a culture. Anymore. America is essentially an economy & nothing more.

4) If you take exception to certain of my claims, please address my claims, & avoid vague generalities like the comment above. It's "twaddle" you say? What exactly is twaddle? Pray tell.

I know more than you about everything, including history and America. Part of that may be because I wasn't stuck my whole life living behind the Iron Curtain where my access to international scholarship ended with the scholarship of the 1930s, part of it is because I've lived in both Europe and America, and part of it is undoubtedly because I've spent some time actually studying history and even just talking to people. Have you ever actually talked to the people of your own community who lived through World War II? I have, all my life, and I know that you are absolutely clueless about what Europe was like then. Go to one of the memorial celebrations to our dead from German atrocities that can be found in every town in my area, go to the memorial at Marzabotto and tell them what a paradise of cultural unity Europe was. Do you have any idea how absurd you sound?

Also, what is this nonsense about how we can't know the living standards in Europe in the past because we weren't alive? Are you kidding? Do we throw out archaeology and history now, and what they can teach us about lifestyles in the past? Spend half an hour reading some documentary history of the 19th century. Most people were malnourished, living in primitive conditions, barely educated. You want to go back even further? Read about what life was like for French peasants, the majority of the population, in the 18th century, or Scottish crofters, or go back to feudalism, when people lived like animals in hovels. Too lazy or don't like reading? Find some ninety year olds and ask what life was like then. There was nothing like the forty hour work week buddy, no meat every day, no warm house and indoor plumbing, no nice clothes, and electronics for idle hours. My God, my ninety four year old great aunt passed not long ago, and a more clear eyed, realistic person I've never known and one of her constant mantras was how lucky I was not to have been born into that world.

You have no idea what living in America is like. Do I like our current president? No, I don't. For the first time in my adult life I didn't vote for a presidential candidate because I couldn't stand either of them. Who cares? Presidents come and presidents go, but America survives, and that's because of its Constitution and its values. Is it utopia? Is it paradise? Is it perfect? No, it isn't. It has its problems, including lingering racism and the problem of our inner cities, and the problems facing blue collar workers, which I assure you I know more about than you do, but I've lived in both Europe and the U.S., and I've traveled all over the world, and there's no place like it for people with brains and the desire and ability to work hard and to fulfill their potential. We have so much that we throw it away, unfortunately. Our people on welfare live better than most of the world's population. Is it a perfect situation? No, it isn't, but it isn't what you describe. I'm sure you don't want to credit it, but Americans are, as a whole, incredibly open-hearted, generous, tolerant people who just ask that you come here legally, respect their norms, don't take lower wages that will put them out of work, and want to be an American and love the country. That's all it takes. My American-ness has never come into question, even though I'm a naturalized citizen. This couldn't have happened anywhere in Europe. Their sense of patriotism, of being a group apart, is stronger than anything I see in Europe, at least among those who haven't been brainwashed at university. Those idiots who moan and groan about all of America's problems have never lived anywhere else or they haven't lived here. Sometimes, on returning from some hell hole, I want to make like the Pope and get down and kiss the ground.

And yes, great progress has been made in terms of racial relations. Ethnic tensions virtually don't exist. The kind of stupid European tribal battles that are fought every day on this forum would be incomprehensible and laughable here. That's part of why I have so little patience with it. There is so little anti-semitism that people go into convulsions over a little spray painting. My children have Asian and Hispanic and black friends and don't think anything of it. It's just the way it is. Even in my own case, of the small group of friends in my life whom I consider sisters, to whom I would have entrusted my children, one was Jewish, one Jamaican, one Italian, one German/Czech. That's the way life is here. You can't fathom it because you've never experienced it.

Now, there's an end to it. I see no point in trying to rationally discuss history or world affairs with people resolutely bent on not seeing reality and only seeing the world through the distorted lens of ideology or mental illness.

America the Beautiful...an aspiration, not an achievement

 
It's incredible isn't it? He looks at the tens upon tens of millions of Europeans fighting over languages, religions, a plot of earth, and sees homogeneity and success. These people should read the memoirs or even just find the old people who lived through World War II and ask them about it.

I had to read the following three times before I could believe he really said it: "Arabic world is successful because of the same recognition that religion as a way to homogenize people works and make them more easily controllable."

The Arabic world is a success. Can you believe it? Iran is to be emulated but American is the enemy. All I can say is WOW!.

1) All human societies experience conflict. Because Europeans experienced conflict that means Europe wasn't successful? LOL. That's preposterous. European contributions speak for themselves & they are frankly too numerous to list. You don't think Europe has been successful historically? Pray tell me what civilization was successful in your eyes?
2) You completely misread his meaning when he said "Arabic societies are a success". He means biologically speaking, not intellectually speaking or from the standpoint of group utility. The movement of Arab peoples constitutes the nearest thing on earth to the front-line of hell. Where Arabs go, Islam follows, & human misery results. Pretty much every time. His point though is that they spread, they reproduce, their values come to predominate where they move. He's basically right about that. Their values predominate because Arabs use violence extremely effectively. Arabic culture is also chauvinistic, insular & supremacistic to the extreme. They really don't care what you or I think. They follow their own laws, even in your lands. And when they have the numbers, they'll simply change the laws & you'll find yourself under a sheet faster than Caspar the Friendly Ghost in a linen store. Things like hypocrisy & universalist thought are simply lost on the J1 zealots. The same could be said, albeit to a more limited degree, about Mormonism for example. They have systems & social structures which ensure that their civilization spreads, that their values subsist, that their genes spread, etc. That one's genes spread is biological success. It must be distinguished from other forms of success like military success, eudaimonia or group accomplishment, though they sometimes track each other. Europe has had a lot of the latter throughout history. But its biological success situation is currently precarious.
3) There are a million reasons for human conflict. Conflict is not going away. It's certainly not going to go away because you remove borders or property or try to eliminate religion or promote diversity or whatever. I think the Soviets already tried that. It worked great! Indeed, borders, if anything, by & large reduce conflict. It is human difference combined with proximity that generally leads to conflict. If people are sufficiently different, it is best they have their own space & their own ways. Spin a globe, count the countries, that's how many times "multiculturalism" has failed.
4) Not sure I would call Iranians "Arabic". Ethnically they're Persians & are clearly distinguishable from Arabs. It's true that culturally they're somewhat Arabized, but even culturally they're pretty easily distinguishable from true "Arab" societies. This is true as to religion as well, given that Iranians are by and large Shiites & hold deep hostilities toward Sunnis, Arab Sunnis in particular. So yeah, you bungled that pretty badly as well.
 
Members have been warned repeatedly: Do not post malware infected material from racist or otherwise questionable sites. I don't know what it takes to get through to some of you people.
 
1) All human societies experience conflict. Because Europeans experienced conflict that means Europe wasn't successful? LOL. That's preposterous. European contributions speak for themselves & they are frankly too numerous to list. You don't think Europe has been successful historically? Pray tell me what civilization was successful in your eyes?
2) You completely misread his meaning when he said "Arabic societies are a success". He means biologically speaking, not intellectually speaking or from the standpoint of group utility. The movement of Arab peoples constitutes the nearest thing on earth to the front-line of hell. Where Arabs go, Islam follows, & human misery results. Pretty much every time. His point though is that they spread, they reproduce, their values come to predominate where they move. He's basically right about that. Their values predominate because Arabs use violence extremely effectively. Arabic culture is also chauvinistic, insular & supremacistic to the extreme. They really don't care what you or I think. They follow their own laws, even in your lands. And when they have the numbers, they'll simply change the laws & you'll find yourself under a sheet faster than Caspar the Friendly Ghost in a linen store. Things like hypocrisy & universalist thought are simply lost on the J1 zealots. The same could be said, albeit to a more limited degree, about Mormonism for example. They have systems & social structures which ensure that their civilization spreads, that their values subsist, that their genes spread, etc. That one's genes spread is biological success. It must be distinguished from other forms of success like military success, eudaimonia or group accomplishment, though they sometimes track each other. Europe has had a lot of the latter throughout history. But its biological success situation is currently precarious.
3) There are a million reasons for human conflict. Conflict is not going away. It's certainly not going to go away because you remove borders or property or try to eliminate religion or promote diversity or whatever. I think the Soviets already tried that. It worked great! Indeed, borders, if anything, by & large reduce conflict. It is human difference combined with proximity that generally leads to conflict. If people are sufficiently different, it is best they have their own space & their own ways. Spin a globe, count the countries, that's how many times "multiculturalism" has failed.
4) Not sure I would call Iranians "Arabic". Ethnically they're Persians & are clearly distinguishable from Arabs. It's true that culturally they're somewhat Arabized, but even culturally they're pretty easily distinguishable from true "Arab" societies. This is true as to religion as well, given that Iranians are by and large Shiites & hold deep hostilities toward Sunnis, Arab Sunnis in particular. So yeah, you bungled that pretty badly as well.

Where did I ever say that Arabs and Iranians are the same people? Please try to read more carefully before you respond. You only seem capable of making straw man, totally confused arguments.

Let's see, so the two of you want Europeans to follow the "Muslim" model, according to your definition? It's worked out really well for the people in the Near East hasn't it? Dream on...Europeans don't want any part of it. Neither do Americans or any other people in the Anglo world. You're only singing to the choir. The only people you convince with this stuff are the members of your own little outcast groups. Everybody else is getting on with their lives.

This is, in part, the argument to which I was responding: "Europe was able to thrive due to cultural homogeneity. Europeans as a society recognized they can conquer and thrive by co-work then the main goal was to establish colonies across the planet and externalize their cultural and economic based influence on a global level. "

That is utter and complete nonsense. Do you people have any education whatsoever? Europeans have always been trying to kill each other over cultural differences among other things. Are you even too young to remember the Balkan Wars? Europeans also didn't unite and try to colonize other countries. Colonization was competitive. The conflict over colonies was one of the major causes of World War I, which was even more devastating than World War II, and killed almost an entire generation of young men. The growth of fascism in Italy and Germany was partly a response to having unified late and having entered the colonial game late and feeling aggrieved at the other, longer established European powers.

Forget it. I'm done talking to you. Get some education, read some history books, don't embarrass yourself by discussing matters about which you don't have a clue.
 
Where did I ever say that Arabs and Iranians are the same people? Please try to read more carefully before you respond. You only seem capable of making straw man, totally confused arguments.

Let's see, so the two of you want Europeans to follow the "Muslim" model, according to your definition? It's worked out really well for the people in the Near East hasn't it? Dream on...Europeans don't want any part of it. Neither do Americans or any other people in the Anglo world. You're only singing to the choir. The only people you convince with this stuff are the members of your own little outcast groups. Everybody else is getting on with their lives.

This is, in part, the argument to which I was responding: "Europe was able to thrive due to cultural homogeneity. Europeans as a society recognized they can conquer and thrive by co-work then the main goal was to establish colonies across the planet and externalize their cultural and economic based influence on a global level. "

That is utter and complete nonsense. Do you people have any education whatsoever? Europeans have always been trying to kill each other over cultural differences among other things. Are you even too young to remember the Balkan Wars? Europeans also didn't unite and try to colonize other countries. Colonization was competitive. The conflict over colonies was one of the major causes of World War I, which was even more devastating than World War II, and killed almost an entire generation of young men. The growth of fascism in Italy and Germany was partly a response to having unified late and having entered the colonial game late and feeling aggrieved at the other, longer established European powers.

Forget it. I'm done talking to you. Get some education, read some history books, don't embarrass yourself by discussing matters about which you don't have a clue.
Well summed up, Angela.
 
oh colonies.

England had India x20 population
Portogal had Brazil xunlimited the land, unknown km2
Netherlands had Indonesia x3months travel to go with a ship.
and Russia what else? ice and cold, they had Alaska
on the oposite France had most of Sahara desert. sand and sun

well today that I look the population and the areas seems very crazy to me.
 
Let's see, so the two of you want Europeans to follow the "Muslim" model, according to your definition? It's worked out really well for the people in the Near East hasn't it? Dream on...Europeans don't want any part of it. Neither do Americans or any other people in the Anglo world. You're only singing to the choir. The only people you convince with this stuff are the members of your own little outcast groups. Everybody else is getting on with their lives.

no, Europeans don't want to follow the "Muslim" model, but Erdogan and Saudi-Arabia want to introduce that model into Europe and they send there imams and others to Europe to promote that model amongst Muslim immigrants

Just very recently Belgian intelligence has found that Turkish imams are sending detailed reports of Gülen movement to Erdogan. They are instructed by Erdogan to spy for him. As you know Erdogan has repeatedly claimed to have proof that Gülen was the organiser of the failed coup in Turkey, but he fails to present any evidence.
These imams were screened in Belgium and found to be moderate and the mosques were recognised and receive subsidies.

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/h...elgie-bespioneerde/article-normal-835673.html

Most radical imams that were taken away their permit to stay in Belgium were paid by Saudi-Arabia, and their mosques as well.

Because of Erdogan policies, new Turkish asylum seekers have risen by 123 % in numbers because they are not safe any more in Turkey.
Furthermore these asylum seekers fear even in Belgium harasments by Erdogan supporters in Belgium.

https://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/no...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+vtm/NMdG+(VTM+NIEUWS)

Yes, attempts are made to install the "Muslim" model in Europe, but it is not by Europeans.
If Europeans are to naive and not vigilant it will happen.
 

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