Society Europe is racist

no, Europeans don't want to follow the "Muslim" model, but Erdogan and Saudi-Arabia want to introduce that model into Europe and they send there imams and others to Europe to promote that model amongst Muslim immigrants

Just very recently Belgian intelligence has found that Turkish imams are sending detailed reports of Gülen movement to Erdogan. They are instructed by Erdogan to spy for him. As you know Erdogan has repeatedly claimed to have proof that Gülen was the organiser of the failed coup in Turkey, but he fails to present any evidence.
These imams were screened in Belgium and found to be moderate and the mosques were recognised and receive subsidies.

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/h...elgie-bespioneerde/article-normal-835673.html

Most radical imams that were taken away their permit to stay in Belgium were paid by Saudi-Arabia, and their mosques as well.

Because of Erdogan policies, new Turkish asylum seekers have risen by 123 % in numbers because they are not safe any more in Turkey.
Furthermore these asylum seekers fear even in Belgium harasments by Erdogan supporters in Belgium.

https://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/no...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+vtm/NMdG+(VTM+NIEUWS)

Yes, attempts are made to install the "Muslim" model in Europe, but it is not by Europeans.
If Europeans are to naive and not vigilant it will happen.

That may all be true, Bicicleur, but is the correct response to adopt the same methods and ideology?

If these imans are spying for another government they should be expelled. I also have no idea why any places of worship should be getting government subsidies. I'm a believer in strict separation of church and state.
 
That may all be true, Bicicleur, but is the correct response to adopt the same methods and ideology?

If these imans are spying for another government they should be expelled. I also have no idea why any places of worship should be getting government subsidies. I'm a believer in strict separation of church and state.

we both agree on what should be done, Angela
but it happens
and it is not just one iman, it is a whole network of imans that were screened and not expelled before like the Saudi-sponsored imans
why? sabotage/bad intentions? incompetence? lack of initiative to act? sheer naivity?
furthermore, it is not just the imans, it is also all these people that like to listen to this kind of imans and their suggestions
 
we both agree on what should be done, Angela
but it happens
and it is not just one iman, it is a whole network of imans that were screened and not expelled before like the Saudi-sponsored imans
why? sabotage/bad intentions? incompetence? lack of initiative to act? sheer naivity?
furthermore, it is not just the imans, it is also all these people that like to listen to this kind of imans and their suggestions

People have an infinite capacity to be deluded. Look at what's happening in Venezuela. I remember when this all started. A Venezuelan of Cuban extraction, of all things, a neighbor of mine who worked for the UN, couldn't praise it all enough. I told him then it would end badly and his adopted country would suffer as had his birth country, but he wouldn't listen. Sometimes it seems as if the countries who really do hold to western values are shrinking all the time.
 
Sometimes it is so sad to read on this topic.

For me the major fight against racism came from the US in the 60s and the hippie generation. It spread to most of western europe, even though, at least the sexual revolution, did not fully propagate all the way south. It was such a powerful wave. Well that wave is gone! What is left is education and the fall of the apartheid (not so long ago).

I do agree that Europe is probably one of the most tolerant places in the world.
 
People have an infinite capacity to be deluded. Look at what's happening in Venezuela. I remember when this all started. A Venezuelan of Cuban extraction, of all things, a neighbor of mine who worked for the UN, couldn't praise it all enough. I told him then it would end badly and his adopted country would suffer as had his birth country, but he wouldn't listen. Sometimes it seems as if the countries who really do hold to western values are shrinking all the time.
The true danger of demagogues and people with charisma taking a nation for a ride. The country is in ruins with still echoing: Viva Chaves!
 
The true danger of demagogues and people with charisma taking a nation for a ride. The country is in ruins with still echoing: Viva Chaves!

What I couldn't fathom and still don't really understand is how a Cuban, who knows what happened there, to his own family no less, could be so hoodwinked. This kind of quasi-Marxist demagoguery can appeal to the heart, but you have to use your head and cold reason when you are making decisions about politics. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is...

@Bergin,
It makes me sad too, believe me. Sometimes it seems that people will never learn.
 
People have an infinite capacity to be deluded. Look at what's happening in Venezuela. I remember when this all started. A Venezuelan of Cuban extraction, of all things, a neighbor of mine who worked for the UN, couldn't praise it all enough. I told him then it would end badly and his adopted country would suffer as had his birth country, but he wouldn't listen. Sometimes it seems as if the countries who really do hold to western values are shrinking all the time.

I'm sure within 10 years the realm of Erdogan will be finished.
Now he takes the credit for the recent economic boom in Turkey, but that is over the top since 1 - 1.1/2 years.
With his debts he created for his megalomania and his chasing away investors he is sewing the seeds for Turkish bankruptcy.
The Turks who now choose for Erdogan will have all this inflicted on themselves.
But there will be a lot of colatoral dammage, in Turkey but also in Europe.
And if he gets absolute power and he has to face bankruptcy, he could be in for some very dangerous moves.
And I don't think we should turn to the UN to protect us from that kind of stupidities.
They seem like a bunch of overrated and overpaid administrators to me.
 
What I couldn't fathom and still don't really understand is how a Cuban, who knows what happened there, to his own family no less, could be so hoodwinked. This kind of quasi-Marxist demagoguery can appeal to the heart, but you have to use your head and cold reason when you are making decisions about politics. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is...

@Bergin,
It makes me sad too, believe me. Sometimes it seems that people will never learn.

Marxists surviving today are very religious Marxists, they have a strong believe in all the dogma's.
 
"Way of life is not a race". To some degree it is. Race is strongly correlated with way of life & various social & cultural phenomena. This has a lot to do with "identity" & the biases them stem therefrom. It's very difficult to make alien peoples with alien histories adopt the identity of out-group members & civilizations. Basically it doesn't happen. A minority of a population might assimilate, but on the group level it's virtually impossible, until & unless the group converts en masse & relinquishes their prior identity. While you're correct that "race" is only one basis for tribalism (religion is another, class is another), it's probably both the strongest & most pronounced source of tribalism & division, not to mention the most natural & typical, since it's rooted in shared genes & biological interrelatedness. As such, it is arguably the most rational form of human organization. In light of its obvious & indelible import soft totalitarian Western power structures have taken to outlawing even the mere acknowledgement of it. This is because people know deep down race is significant. If they didn't, they wouldn't go to such great lengths to eliminate it & to deny it. Their tactics betray their fears.


This is stunningly naive. Hunter gatherers are not pouring into the Western World by the millions. If they were it could be a serious problem. Indeed, the mass movement of people has been a serious problem for Europe throughout history & prehistory. Much of Western Europe is like what 50% R1b? You don't get those kinds of numbers without something akin to genocide. Ever heard of the Huns? The Mongols? The mass movement of people will often trigger the outright collapse of a civilization. The irony is, you think you're going to import hordes of foreign peoples, many of whom hate you & want to destroy you by any means necessary, & yet maintain your civilization & way of life. You won't. Your civilization will be transformed by the values, interests & goals of the invaders. This is how it works on earth. You can talk all you want about just letting them live their lives. But Islam for example is not going to just grant you the same privilege. Islam has a way, pretty much everywhere it goes, of ensuring those living in its midst submit & comply to its mandates. You may be some sort of confused libertarian, but just because you are doesn't mean others are.



I don't have a particularly strong tribal identity. It's healthy to acknowledge that other tribes have interests & goals, & that those interests & goals may be quite adverse to your own. It's dangerously delusional to deny this. Taken to its most extreme it can even be collectively suicidal. You don't think interethnic conflict is something to worry about? Tell that to the Jews, the Kosovars, the Armenians, the Tibetans... need I go on? Shoot, tell it to the Lebanese or the Indians. Genocide is not the only form of interethnic conflict. Most interethnic conflict is more gradually transformational. You're caricaturizing my position because you can't defeat it on honest terms. Your crypto-Marxist beliefs in absolute human equality & eternal peace will not save you from reality. Life is not some beauty pageant. You have this silly notion in your head that if you do X, others will. No, they won't. You've been lulled into a trance by decades of opulence, decadence & apathy. The West is a victim of its own success. Do you know what the word "lemming" means?



My Kazakhstan comment was a joke. You're just a bit slow.


E-V13 is in all likelihood native to Europe. Its distribution is massively European. It has been in Europe circa 10,000 years. E-V13 is likely the primary lineage of the ancient Greeks, the progenitors of Western civilization. Tell me more about where E-V13 belongs though.

I would adopt you in to my tribe any day, nothing to add in this subject.
 
What a bunch of twaddle. America is a perfect example of things that you say can't happen happening. You seriously need to open your eyes.

American society is so divided along ethnic lines that it can hardly be classed as a model for cohesion in a society.
Would like to see simulated stress tests for different nations, the multiethnic ones have historically imploded fast.
There is no reason to assume that for example an economic or climatic crisis would result anything but total collapse of those societies.
 
I would adopt you in to my tribe any day, nothing to add in this subject.
Exactly my point. You guys belong to a small tribe to hide away from all the big bad world, with all the strange people and ideas. I'm even surprised you guys use internet. You know, this is how the world can get you...
Boo.
 
"We refugees... do not want to live in the same country with you. You can, and I think you should, leave Germany. And please take Saxony and the Alternative for Germany (AfD) with you.... Why do you not go to another country? We are sick of you!" — Aras Bacho an 18-year-old Syrian migrant, in Der Freitag, October 2016

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-20/



Angela Merkel only let thousands of immigrants into Germany because she was worried that if she didn’t there would be clashes with police which would look bad on television.

The extraordinary claim is made in a book by Robin Alexander, a leading German political journalist, published this week.
https://heatst.com/world/new-book-s...to-germany-to-dodge-televised-border-clashes/
 
Angela Merkel only let thousands of immigrants into Germany because she was worried that if she didn’t there would be clashes with police which would look bad on television.

wow , that doesn't make any sense.
 
Exactly my point. You guys belong to a small tribe to hide away from all the big bad world, with all the strange people and ideas. I'm even surprised you guys use internet. You know, this is how the world can get you...
Boo.

Well we have to go tribal if the nation states are abolished, pretty scary for most people actually.
But I am not worried about us tribalists really, more for you actually, it is a big bad world outside the bubble.
Your suggestion that internet is our only contact to the world reveals your arrogance.
Most of us have travelled and studied the world more than the average humanist that went to smoke a joint in Goa after graduating.
 
@gyms,

Rule number one: Be very leery of journalists reporting quotes . We've had a rash of occurrences here where journalists were found to have made up quotes. Even if this teenager actually exists and said that, who says he's representative?

@Ukko,
"Ethnic" lines? Absolutely not. All of that one set of Europeans vs another set of Europeans nonsense is almost gone here. There's been too much living side by side under a fair set of laws, too much inter-marriage.

Racial lines? Yes, to some extent, more for African Americans, less for East Asian Americans, sort of in the middle for Hispanics. Once class divisions are taken into consideration, even those are not as extreme as you think. An Indian family moved across the street from me last year. I know they're not Christian, yet she put out lights, from what I hear her children are part of the sports teams, she's in the Parent-Teacher Association. People assimilate, that's what happens here.

Stop generalizing.
 
"We refugees... do not want to live in the same country with you. You can, and I think you should, leave Germany. And please take Saxony and the Alternative for Germany (AfD) with you.... Why do you not go to another country? We are sick of you!" — Aras Bacho an 18-year-old Syrian migrant, in Der Freitag, October 2016

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-20/



Angela Merkel only let thousands of immigrants into Germany because she was worried that if she didn’t there would be clashes with police which would look bad on television.

The extraordinary claim is made in a book by Robin Alexander, a leading German political journalist, published this week.
https://heatst.com/world/new-book-s...to-germany-to-dodge-televised-border-clashes/

She let in possibly a million in Europe, nobody knows, she is insane.
 
Racial lines? Yes, to some extent, more for African Americans, less for East Asian Americans, sort of in the middle for Hispanics. Once class divisions are taken into consideration, even those are not as extreme as you think. An Indian family moved across the street from me last year. I know they're not Christian, yet she put out lights, from what I hear her children are part of the sports teams, she's in the Parent-Teacher Association. People assimilate, that's what happens here.

Stop generalizing.

Why do I get totally different estimates from people I know personally? They are all brainwashed?
 
Why do I get totally different estimates from people I know personally? They are all brainwashed?
Did you ever consider that the people to whom you speak on anthrofora are all white nationalists who have a "story" to sell?


Do middle class white people have much to do with the under class blacks of the inner cities? No, they don't, and likewise for Hispanic landscape workers or housecleaners from Central America. There's no hatred, however, and no desire to deny them equal rights.

At the same time, there's a lot of interaction between middle and upper class people of all races. One of my dearest friends is a social worker with a master's degree who moved here from Jamaica. My husband's office manager is Puerto Rican and she is godmother to our son. As I explained upthread, some East Asian and South Asian families are moving into my neighborhood, highly educated people who seem to be assimilating pretty well, the South Asians more than the East Asians from what I can tell. There's certainly no animosity, although yes there are "white" families who would prefer that there not be any inter-racial dating even with East Asians and South Asians, no matter how educated they are. What they prefer and what will happen may be very different.
 

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