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Thread: Turkey's Future

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    What baffles me the most, is why the heck half of the society votes against democracy to elect the tyrant?!!! We have seen it in Venezuela and in Russia, no in Turkey. One is already a bankrupt and a mess, Russia is slowly going there, opposition is killed off, mass media controlled and economy sinking, same is happening in Turkey, I predict that Turkey and Russia will have a revolution in 10-20 years.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    What baffles me the most, is why the heck half of the society votes against democracy to elect the tyrant?!!! We have seen it in Venezuela and in Russia, no in Turkey. One is already a bankrupt and a mess, Russia is slowly going there, opposition is killed off, mass media controlled and economy sinking, same is happening in Turkey, I predict that Turkey and Russia will have a revolution in 10-20 years.
    Insanity can be defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. When will people learn? I feel really badly for the Turks, particularly the educated, urban Turks who voted against this.

    Yes, Attaturk may not have given them much choice, but he was trying to drag them into the 20th century. Now they're voting to go back to the Middle Ages. It's crazy.

    How long will it be before it will be another Iran or Afghanistan in terms of religious liberty, women's rights, human rights in general? It's like a death wish.

    Political Islam is one of the most destructive forces in the world. I'm sorry to say it, but that's what I think. The Turkish people, and the ones I've met have been very nice indeed, deserve better.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    You are really going to sit here, and tell me that Ataturk advanced the government more then Erdogan please. This would be a ridiculous statement. You are also going to sit here, and tell me that Ataturk Parliamentary system was a good idea.... Where was Turkey at the time of Ataturk? What did he do were we a G20 nation.... No we weren't. Did Turkey have self reliance no we didn't. Did Turkey have a strong GDP no they did not. This is exactly why no one votes for CHP, and AK Parti holds the 317 seats in parliament and CHP holds only 133. CHP, and the kemalist idea is a flowed ideology that was never bound to prosper. Turkey is spreading the wealth, the trade has increased 7 fold with the Middle East. That is 32 billion dollars annually just from Trade with the Middle East, and you seriously want to sit here, and criticize that statement. These are facts Turkey economy is 10x stronger now under Ak Parti then it has ever been under CHP. Under AK Parti we have built 70% of Kazakhstans new capital. What did CHP do? What project did they do? Our economic growth rates, and the projects that we have done have grown our economy largely. These outside projects are one of the ways that we make money, as other economies pay us for building there economy so it is a steady flow of money for Turkey. Also AK Parti has spread the wealth with the people of Turkey, and the wage in Turkey under Ak Parti has more then I want to say tripled but I believe that it has doubled.. The statement I made holds truth I could have worded it better, but CHP and Kemalist idea have not advanced the country as much as AK Parti. You can say they founded the Turkish Republic, but look at Turkey in the 70s I think it was that parts of Istanbul did not even have full running water. Now look at Turkey today.
    I am really enjoying to read it and feel bad for you. As I said, you are not worth anything. I won't want to discuss with you, Ataturk's production base economical system and AKP's build sell system. Even you are a guy who have said Ataturk didn't do anything for economy, Oh shitt, It is really unbelievable.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    @Angela and othersSeeing how Le Pen and Geert Wilders are getting stronger and stronger and remember TRUMP; you are living also same nightmare. Don't even think that you are in better position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    What baffles me the most, is why the heck half of the society votes against democracy to elect the tyrant?!!! We have seen it in Venezuela and in Russia, no in Turkey. One is already a bankrupt and a mess, Russia is slowly going there, opposition is killed off, mass media controlled and economy sinking, same is happening in Turkey, I predict that Turkey and Russia will have a revolution in 10-20 years.
    For the same reason why authoritarian leader always took power throughout history. The inability of the moderate elites of the country to give a solution to the problems of the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    I am really enjoying to read it and feel bad for you. As I said, you are not worth anything. I won't want to discuss with you, Ataturk's production base economical system and AKP's build sell system. Even you are a guy who have said Ataturk didn't do anything for economy, Oh shitt, It is really unbelievable.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    @Angela and othersSeeing how Le Pen and Geert Wilders are getting stronger and stronger and remember TRUMP; you are living also same nightmare. Don't even think that you are in better position.
    I'm sorry, but what is happening in Turkey is much worse.
    Erdogan has silenced critical press and put oposition in jail.
    His next move is to become president with dictatorial power.
    Le Pen and Wilders are still far away from that and Trump even doesn't have the ambition to get there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I'm sorry, but what is happening in Turkey is much worse.
    Erdogan has silenced critical press and put oposition in jail.
    His next move is to become president with dictatorial power.
    Le Pen and Wilders are still far away from that and Trump even doesn't have the ambition to get there.
    Erdogan will be fine! The best thing about him is that he knows what his strengths are. He depends on the West for many of his moves. If his economy stalls the opposition to him will be strong. What he is looking right now is a law to hang about 250 guys who wanted to remove him by force in the latest coup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Erdogan will be fine! The best thing about him is that he knows what his strengths are. He depends on the West for many of his moves. If his economy stalls the opposition to him will be strong. What he is looking right now is a law to hang about 250 guys who wanted to remove him by force in the latest coup.


    and I thought that in Cuba they hate West and Capitalism



    I wonder what would Fidel could say about?????
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
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    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I'm sorry, but what is happening in Turkey is much worse.
    Erdogan has silenced critical press and put oposition in jail.
    His next move is to become president with dictatorial power.
    Le Pen and Wilders are still far away from that and Trump even doesn't have the ambition to get there.
    Because Le Pen is not in power. If she win, will be the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    I am really enjoying to read it and feel bad for you. As I said, you are not worth anything. I won't want to discuss with you, Ataturk's production base economical system and AKP's build sell system. Even you are a guy who have said Ataturk didn't do anything for economy, Oh shitt, It is really unbelievable.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    @Angela and othersSeeing how Le Pen and Geert Wilders are getting stronger and stronger and remember TRUMP; you are living also same nightmare. Don't even think that you are in better position.
    Whether you agree with me or not the people have voted, and more then half the population would disagree with you now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    Whether you agree with me or not the people have voted, and more then half the population would disagree with you now.
    OK, but this man is from 1994 in power and pretend to stay until 2029. In my opinion this is a problem for you. And let's not forget that there were some irregularities during the referendum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Because Le Pen is not in power. If she win, will be the same.
    she'll never have the power like Erdogan

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    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    Whether you agree with me or not the people have voted, and more then half the population would disagree with you now.
    and nearly other half doesn't will under the new constitution, and AGIT gave his report which says there was inequality in the election.

    So don't try to look a guy who plays the game by rules.

    Even Erdoğan had to be neutral during the election according to his oath and law. But he didn't, he clearly attended Yes camping.

    I hope that this will be one of the key stone of division of Turkey.

    My Heart has already beated for another flag. Keep your blood flag to you !!! I don't want or care the martyrs, the only thing I cared is the things which martyrs die for such as freedom.


    As II Mehmet said (conquer or Constantinople)

    "When you kill the wisdom, ethic dies
    When wisdom and ethic die, nation divides
    When the day you buy the judge, justice dies,
    When justice die, state dies."

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    she'll never have the power like Erdogan
    You are wrong. She will be worse than Erdogan. Erdogan didn't started as a dictator but as "strong" man. Now with this referendum, in my opinion he passed the red line.
    Meanwhile Le Pen, is a fascist.
    About the power, even Erdogan did not had so much power at the beginning. But later many things changed. There is always a starting point followed by the dynamic of the events. These people don't represent only themselves. They represent groups of interests and they arrive to the power by exploiting popular discontent. It's a movie that we have see many times during the history.
    Last edited by LABERIA; 18-04-17 at 13:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    she'll never have the power like Erdogan
    That's sounds like, "TRUMP is just a joke"


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    Guys

    personally I wrote many times in the forum 4 things about Erdogan and Turkey

    1 he is a billionaire with many construction companies

    2 he loves Islamic Turkey, and I am certain he will do the best he can for Turks,

    3 I am not afraid him in the national level, he even defend a military action, although he must stop with his reveanging acts like death penalty,
    wich makes him protector of democracy, either parliamental either presidential, but he must not turn his face to a vengeangefull beast,
    he must stop polarization, and unify Turks

    4 I am afraid Erdogan at the international level, his ambitious might drive him to start a cold war with EU even USA or even an open war, etc etc

    Erdogan has enough money, so his grand grand grand children live in luxury, he doesn't care any more for money
    Erdogan is after the ring of Glory, ​that is what frightens me, he already posses the ring of power,

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    she'll never have the power like Erdogan
    Even Trump doesn't have power as Erdogan or Putin do. South Korea shows recently how real democracy works. If president does wrong, he/she can be investigated, removed and prosecuted. It will never happen in Turkey or Russia now. "Viva Chavez!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    and nearly other half doesn't will under the new constitution, and AGIT gave his report which says there was inequality in the election.

    So don't try to look a guy who plays the game by rules.

    Even Erdoğan had to be neutral during the election according to his oath and law. But he didn't, he clearly attended Yes camping.

    I hope that this will be one of the key stone of division of Turkey.

    My Heart has already beated for another flag. Keep your blood flag to you !!! I don't want or care the martyrs, the only thing I cared is the things which martyrs die for such as freedom.


    As II Mehmet said (conquer or Constantinople)

    "When you kill the wisdom, ethic dies
    When wisdom and ethic die, nation divides
    When the day you buy the judge, justice dies,
    When justice die, state dies."
    Amen brother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Guys

    personally I wrote many times in the forum 4 things about Erdogan and Turkey

    1 he is a billionaire with many construction companies

    2 he loves Islamic Turkey, and I am certain he will do the best he can for Turks,

    3 I am not afraid him in the national level, he even defend a military action, although he must stop with his reveanging acts like death penalty,
    wich makes him protector of democracy, either parliamental either presidential, but he must not turn his face to a vengeangefull beast,
    he must stop polarization, and unify Turks

    4 I am afraid Erdogan at the international level, his ambitious might drive him to start a cold war with EU even USA or even an open war, etc etc

    Erdogan has enough money, so his grand grand grand children live in luxury, he doesn't care any more for money
    Erdogan is after the ring of Glory, ​that is what frightens me, he already posses the ring of power,
    You forgot to mention his dictatorial and tyrannical character. ;) And remember, strength in home, gives Erdogan and Putin power to do mess abroad.

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    Erdogan will be doing good as long as his policy will support the needs of Israel and US in a nutshell. He can kill as much Kurds as he wishes to if he help Israel to destabilize the Syrian regime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Even Trump doesn't have power as Erdogan or Putin do. South Korea shows recently how real democracy works. If president does wrong, he/she can be investigated, removed and prosecuted. It will never happen in Turkey or Russia now. "Viva Chavez!"
    OK. But what makes you think he is not going to make good for his country with all the power he has. He could be effective as economy and stability matters. He could be good for Balkans if his companies have enough money to spend around. Have you ever asked yourself why the USA is an effective country? Powers of the president might be a cause

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    OK. But what makes you think he is not going to make good for his country with all the power he has. He could be effective as economy and stability matters. He could be good for Balkans if his companies have enough money to spend around. Have you ever asked yourself why the USA is an effective country? Powers of the president might be a cause
    he is a liar, and he gets away with that inside Turkey
    he is installing the same regime like Putin, putting press and oposition in jail

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    OK. But what makes you think he is not going to make good for his country with all the power he has. He could be effective as economy and stability matters. He could be good for Balkans if his companies have enough money to spend around. Have you ever asked yourself why the USA is an effective country? Powers of the president might be a cause
    You know what is good about dictators? If I was one, I would put you in jail. Heck, you wouldn't need to break the law, I just don't like your opinion on almost anything.
    How many examples of successful countries you have run by dictators? Emuse us with your list.

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    Any instability in Turkey will create great turbulences to the country, its people, and neighbours. I feel Turkey will be isolated, at least by the liberal powers of the Western world, and will turn to others (see Russia) to form coalitions.

    In any case, geopolitics have changed. There is a clear dichotomy in the Turkish society about this matter.

    I personally disagree when a person is elected more than two times as a president or prime-minister.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    Any instability in Turkey will create great turbulences to the country, its people, and neighbours. I feel Turkey will be isolated, at least by the liberal powers of the Western world, and will turn to others (see Russia) to form coalitions.

    In any case, geopolitics have changed. There is a clear dichotomy in the Turkish society about this matter.

    I personally disagree when a person is elected more than two times as a president or prime-minister.

    Your interpretation has some good points. On the other side, one has also to look at the past choices turkey has made in the recent history.
    They managed to stay out of WW2 and out of the cold war. I suppose they will just follow the same path without picking parts - and they do have quite a good track of records of avoiding burning scenarios.
    Yet there are things that are very unclear to me, like the increased islamisation. This erdogan is pretty unpredictable in his next moves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    Your interpretation has some good points. On the other side, one has also to look at the past choices turkey has made in the recent history.
    They managed to stay out of WW2 and out of the cold war. I suppose they will just follow the same path without picking parts - and they do have quite a good track of records of avoiding burning scenarios.
    Yet there are things that are very unclear to me, like the increased islamisation. This erdogan is pretty unpredictable in his next moves.


    Turkey was at cold war, she a member of expanded NATO from 51 if remember correct.

    as for WW2 they follow Kemal's system, and they had no choice,
    remember the Sykes-Piquot treaty was not performed as suppossed to be even 1940's
    and 2-3 decades from Arab revolt, and before 1948 when England and France still were Allies of Arabs, and had troops all over Arab lands and colonies.
    it was suicide for Turkey to enter war either as axis power,
    since their traditional ally was Deutschland and Austria at WW1,
    it was easier for them to enter with allies, but that ment surely an attack to Bulgaria and Romania and alliance with Greece,
    so Kemalists that ruled Turkey that time follow the path of neutrality.
    I agree that Erdogan might be unpredicted,
    but Turkey of Kemalists was predicted,
    they wouldn't even attack Cyprus, if Kissinger did not exist.

    the big problem of Turkey was around Menteres times, and around 1973 if remember correct,
    the epigonoi of Kemal expressed mainly by generals who only got richer and richer,
    by time they manage to narrow-weaken their power and politicians took the upper hand
    but still at Turkey there are paramilitary powers which Erdogan can not control
    and has their annexation.

    the opponents of Kemal have big right/correct in one thing,
    Kemal trusted too much the army, so he gave enormous power to generals
    it needed Menteres to start a new policy to open economy,
    but he ended 'hunged',
    the more the limited the power of generals, the more Turkey's economy raised,
    so the presidential democracy to Turkey, is not obvious how it will work.
    lets hope the unpredicted Erdogan as you name him,and I agree, surprises us peacefully, and not with a war.
    I am afraid his mania for glory. not his love for power and Ottoman Turkey.

    on the other hand if Erdogan manages to pass the death penalty,
    then we have other situations,
    combining this with the who knows millions of Turks who were investigated or went to jail, only for a possiblity of being suspicious with the military action against him,
    is not making Erdogan very poppular,
    how come a person who works at an office at electric corporation for example, or an elementary teacher be connected to the military action... only he knows,
    Stalin in order to rule and succed invented traitors and enemies,
    I do not know, and I can not see more,
    the man is hero since he escape the military action, the man is speaking what the people want to hear, and the man is sending to prison and investigations millions like the Jundas or the Communist in Russia of Stalin,
    he is a phainomenon, don't you think?

    he manage to give pride and hope to the most poor and insignificant Turk
    and same time he prisons the other poor and insignificant Turk

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