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Thread: Turkey's Future

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    Country: Turkey



    Turkey's Future



    As the referendum is closing in starting tomorrow what are your opinions on Turkey's future. I am a supporter of Erdoğan, and the AK Parti as I think they have made great accomplishments economically in the country. People criticize Erdoğan, and say that he is a dictator. Atatürk imposed a dress code.... Yet people want to say Erdoğan is a dictator. How? Atatürk imposed a dress code, changed the language, dictated the religion, dictated whether or not women could wear hijab in school, and did nothing for the economy. This sounds more like a dictatorship then what Erdoğan, and Ak Parti has done. Under Erdoğan Turkey now has the fastest growing economy in the world. There export has increased 7 fold. It is one of the fastest growing G20 economies in the world, and is 16th richest country in GDP. Also Erdoğan plan is to be in the top by 2020, and with the economic growth of the g20 it seems this will be a possible goal. As our economy is growing at a tremendously fast rate. Also not a single Turkish bank failed after the credit crunch. Also what makes Anatolians so interesting is that we have combined social conservatism and piety with capitalism and the desire to exploit opportunities from globalization.

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    Erdogan is claiming the last Turkish economical boom for himself, which makes him very popular.
    He didn't create that boom, and it is over. Instead he has sewn the seeds of Turkish bankruptcy by financing his megalomane projects and by chasing away foreign investors. He is unable to pay back his debts and I think it will start with a new hyperinflation in Turkey.
    In the mean time Erdogan tries to deflect the Turks attention elsewhere by using his agressive rhetoric to the outside world.
    He has already eliminated the oposition and the critical press. I hope the Turks won't give him to much to much power, because when pay time will come, he might do some very dangerous moves.
    Tell me, did Ataturk also put press and political oponents in jail? Did he also make you nostalgic to the Ottoman Empire?
    When Erdogan is finished, Turkey will need a new Ataturk, just like after the bakruptcy of the Ottoman Empire.

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    Down the toilet if they support the dictator Erdogan.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    @ Tahir

    Erdogan is a dangerous man,
    in Turkey maybe is the best or the worst according what he does to Turks,
    I am not a Turk to attack or to defend him, and if I was a Turk I would vote by the eyes of what he has done
    but as concerning him at international level he is dangerous,
    his 'big mouth' is isolating Turkey and brings polarization to Europe,

    hope the best,
    remember, it is Turks who decide the future of Turkey political map/constitution,
    not a foreign power,
    so hayir or evet, the future historian will write down if it was best or worse, but as a clear decision of Turkish people

    but the last year military action against him,
    the revence (revenge) acts
    the Russia USA Europe diplomatic relations
    etc etc is not good for Turkey
    Polarization is not a good method,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
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    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

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    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Erdogan is claiming the last Turkish economical boom for himself, which makes him very popular.
    He didn't create that boom, and it is over. Instead he has sewn the seeds of Turkish bankruptcy by financing his megalomane projects and by chasing away foreign investors. He is unable to pay back his debts and I think it will start with a new hyperinflation in Turkey.
    In the mean time Erdogan tries to deflect the Turks attention elsewhere by using his agressive rhetoric to the outside world.
    He has already eliminated the oposition and the critical press. I hope the Turks won't give him to much to much power, because when pay time will come, he might do some very dangerous moves.
    Tell me, did Ataturk also put press and political oponents in jail? Did he also make you nostalgic to the Ottoman Empire?
    When Erdogan is finished, Turkey will need a new Ataturk, just like after the bakruptcy of the Ottoman Empire.
    This is completely false in my opinion Atatürk did was way worse. How many religious scholars were put to death at the hands of that government? How many people were exiled. Why don't you read about the 80,000 Kurds killed in the Dersim Rebellion agains the government, and you want to sit here and criticize Erdogan give me a break. Also you are going to tell me that there has not been a economic rise in Turkey. This has been proven economically that Turkey is one of the strongest G20, and one of the strongest countries GDP wise in the world. Still to this day, and no the boom is not over they are still in the top 10 strongest G20 economies in the world, as of 2017. Also I am editing this part of the post, but Ataturk government controlled the media, so the CHP under the secular constitution I remember Erdogan was jailed of 10 months for reciting a poem, that by the way is taught in public schools. He was jailed for "breaking the secularism of Turkey." So CHP cannot speak about oppression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    @ Tahir

    Erdogan is a dangerous man,
    in Turkey maybe is the best or the worst according what he does to Turks,
    I am not a Turk to attack or to defend him, and if I was a Turk I would vote by the eyes of what he has done
    but as concerning him at international level he is dangerous,
    his 'big mouth' is isolating Turkey and brings polarization to Europe,

    hope the best,
    remember, it is Turks who decide the future of Turkey political map/constitution,
    not a foreign power,
    so hayir or evet, the future historian will write down if it was best or worse, but as a clear decision of Turkish people

    but the last year military action against him,
    the revence (revenge) acts
    the Russia USA Europe diplomatic relations
    etc etc is not good for Turkey
    Polarization is not a good method,
    @Yetos I agree with your point no person can say what is good for Turkey who is a not a Turk, as they are not the people living in the country. The people have continued to vote for AK Parti, and Erdogan so it seems that the majority of people in Turkey are happy with him. It would be the same with me trying to discuss politics in Greece. I can see it only from an outside view, and not from a internal prospective. If you do not live in the country it is hard to say what is good for a country. I do not think that secularism was good for the country, and was also extremely oppressive. This is my view, but I can see that the overwhelming majority of turks do support the current government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    This is completely false in my opinion Atatürk did was way worse. How many religious scholars were put to death at the hands of that government? How many people were exiled. Why don't you read about the 80,000 Kurds killed in the Dersim Rebellion agains the government, and you want to sit here and criticize Erdogan give me a break.

    the number of casualties you cite are grosely exaggerated, it was 14000 maximum, exiled were 12000
    and do you know the circumstances under which it happened?
    I understand Erdogan offered his sympathy to the victims
    when will he recognize the Armenian genocide?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    @Yetos I agree with your point no person can say what is good for Turkey who is a not a Turk, as they are not the people living in the country. The people have continued to vote for AK Parti, and Erdogan so it seems that the majority of people in Turkey are happy with him. It would be the same with me trying to discuss politics in Greece. I can see it only from an outside view, and not from a internal prospective. If you do not live in the country it is hard to say what is good for a country.
    why did you start this thread here on Eupedia then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    @Yetos I agree with your point no person can say what is good for Turkey who is a not a Turk, as they are not the people living in the country. The people have continued to vote for AK Parti, and Erdogan so it seems that the majority of people in Turkey are happy with him. It would be the same with me trying to discuss politics in Greece. I can see it only from an outside view, and not from a internal prospective. If you do not live in the country it is hard to say what is good for a country. I do not think that secularism was good for the country, and was also extremely oppressive. This is my view, but I can see that the overwhelming majority of turks do support the current government.
    Oh yes we can. See, Europe already experimented with many forms of political and economic systems. We know what works, and what doesn't. Study European history and you will know too.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I think he is winning! Huge step forward for Turkey! Big countries like Turkey is hard to govern in parliamentary way! Consensus is not in Southern Europe DNA. Erdogan appears to be a real reformer. Only Germany and England could be run as parliamentarian democracies for the reason of their people being disciplined. Had Italy been a presidential democracy wood have succeeded all Europeans economically for the reason of talented people they have.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    I think he is winning! Huge step forward for Turkey! Big countries like Turkey is hard to govern in parliamentary way! Consensus is not in Southern Europe DNA. Erdogan appears to be a real reformer. Only Germany and England could be run as parliamentarian democracies for the reason of their people being disciplined. Had Italy been a presidential democracy wood have succeeded all Europeans economically for the reason of talented people they have.
    tell me about his reforms
    I feel like I'm missing something here

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    I think he is winning! Huge step forward for Turkey! Big countries like Turkey is hard to govern in parliamentary way! Consensus is not in Southern Europe DNA. Erdogan appears to be a real reformer. Only Germany and England could be run as parliamentarian democracies for the reason of their people being disciplined. Had Italy been a presidential democracy wood have succeeded all Europeans economically for the reason of talented people they have.
    I think that the choice between parliamentary or presidential republic is worth considering.

    It would have been very nice if Erdogan would not have made it a personal choice by declaring his retirement. I think that the presence of Erdogan as a key player has influenced people while the decision will have broad consequences also in the long term (50 - 100 years).

    So one question remains: will he candidate for president if the referendum passes? Clearly, if he doesn't it provides huge legitimacy to the process in the public eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    tell me about his reforms
    I feel like I'm missing something here
    Don't listen to international propaganda! Turkey is not a liberal democracy, its a conservative democracy! As such you don't expect nudity or legal prostitution, as Canada is for instance! Democracy is not one size fit all! This is their way where the people are asked to express their opinion. All he has to do is surround himself with Harvard educated people and improve the economy.

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    so, no reforms

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Don't listen to international propaganda! Turkey is not a liberal democracy, its a conservative democracy! As such you don't expect nudity or legal prostitution, as Canada is for instance! Democracy is not one size fit all! This is their way where the people are asked to express their opinion. All he has to do is surround himself with Harvard educated people and improve the economy.
    Hahaha

    nice joke,

    All ministers and prime ministers of Greece had Harvard or Yale consouls
    and many of them finished Harvard
    and the result you can see it,
    take Harvard and Yale educated and in ten years you destroy the country

    i go to wash my mouth and hands,
    I spell and wrote evil words

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    so, no reforms
    No there are many reforms. I will include all the policies that will change from the referendum. Which was very close, and was a real nail bitter.
    1 Article 9 The judiciary is required to act on condition of impartiality.
    2 Article 75 The number of seats in the Parliament is raised from 550 to 600.
    3 Article 76 The age requirement to stand as a candidate in an election to be lowered from 25 to 18, while the condition of having to complete compulsory military service is to be removed. Individuals with relations to the military would be ineligible to run for election.
    4 Article 77 Parliamentary terms are extended from four to five years. Parliamentary and presidential elections will be held on the same day every five years, with presidential elections going to a run-off if no candidate wins a simple majority in the first round.
    5 Article 87 The functions of Parliament are
    • Making, changing, removing laws.
    • Accepting international contracts.
    • Discuss, increase or decrease budget (on Budget Commission) and accept or reject the budget on General Assembly.
    • Appoint 7 members of HSYK
    • And using other powers written in the constitution
    5 Article 89 To overcome a presidential veto, the Parliament needs to adopt the same bill with an absolute majority (301).
    6 Article 98 Parliament now detects cabinet and Vice President with Parliamentary Research, Parliamentary Investigation, General Discussion and Written Question. Interpellation is abolished and replaced with Parliamentary Investigation. VP needs to answer Written Questions within 15 days.
    7 Article 101 In order to stand as a presidential candidate, an individual requires the endorsement of one or more parties that won 5% or more in the preceding parliamentary elections and 100,000 voters. The elected president no longer needs to terminate their party membership if they have one.
    8 Article 104 The President becomes both the head of state and head of government, with the power to appoint and sack ministers and VP. The president can issue decrees about executive. If legislation makes a law about the same topic that President issued an executive order, decree will become invalid and parliamentary law become valid.
    9 Article 105 Parliament can open parliamentary investigation with an absolute majority (301). Parliament discusses proposal in 1 month. Following the completion of Discussion, Parliamentary investigation can begin in Parliament with a hidden three-fifths (360) vote in favor. Following the completion of investigations, the parliament can vote to indict the President with a hidden two-thirds (400) vote in favor.
    10 Article 106 The President can appoint one or more Vice Presidents. If the Presidency falls vacant, then fresh presidential elections must be held within 45 days. If parliamentary elections are due within less than a year, then they too are held on the same day as early presidential elections. If the parliament has over a year left before its term expires, then the newly elected president serves until the end of the parliamentary term, after which both presidential and parliamentary elections are held. This does not count towards the President's two-term limit. Parliamentary investigations into possible crimes committed by Vice Presidents and ministers can begin in Parliament with a three-fifths vote in favor. Following the completion of investigations, the parliament can vote to indict Vice Presidents or ministers with a two-thirds vote in favor. If found guilty, the Vice President or minister in question is only removed from office if their crime is one that bars them from running for election. If a sitting MP is appointed as a minister or Vice President, their parliamentary membership will be terminated.
    11 Article 116 The President and three-fifths of the Parliament can decide to renew elections. In this case, the enactor also dissolves itself until elections.
    12 Article 119 The President's ability to declare state of emergency is now subject to parliamentary approval to take effect. The Parliament can extend, remove or shorten it. States of emergency can be extended for up to four months at a time except during war, where no such limitation will be required. Every presidential decree issues during a state of emergency will need an approval of Parliament.
    13 Article 125 The acts of the President are now subject to judicial review.
    13 Article 142 Military courts are abolished unless they are erected to investigate actions of soldiers under conditions of war.
    13 Article 146 The President used to appoint one Justice from High Military Court of Appeals, and one from the High Military Administrative Court. As military courts are abolished, the number of Justices in the Constitutional Court reduced to 15 from 17. Consequently, presidential appointees reduced to 12 from 14, while the Parliament continues to appoint three.
    14 Article 159 Supreme Board of Judges and Prosecutors is renamed to "Board of Judges and Prosecutors", members are reduced to 13 from 22, departments are reduced to 2 from 3. 4 members are appointed by President, 7 will be appointed by the Grand Assembly. Supreme Board of Judges and Prosecutors (HSYK) candidates will need to get 2/3 (400) votes to pass first round and will need 3/5 (360) votes in second round to be a member of HSYK.(Other 2 members are Justice Minister and Ministry of Justice Undersecretary, which is unchanged).
    15 Article 161 President proposes fiscal budget to Grand Assembly 75 days prior to fiscal new year. Budget Commission members can make changes to budget but Parliamentary members cannot make proposals to change public expenditures. If the budget is not approved, then a temporary budget will be proposed. If the temporary budget is also not approved, the previous year's budget would be used with the previous year's increment ratio.[note 1]
    16 Several articles Adaptation of several articles of the constitution with other changes, mainly transferring executive powers of cabinet to President
    16 Article 123 President gets power to create States.
    17 Temporary Article 21 Next presidential and General elections will be held on 3 November 2019. If Grand Assembly decides early elections, both will be held at the same day. Board of Judges and Prosecutors elections will be made within 30 days of approval of this law. Military courts will be abolished once the law comes into force.
    18 Applicability of amendments 1-17 The amendments (2, 4 and 7) will come into force after new elections, other amendments (except temporary article) will come into force once newly elected president swears. Annulled the article which elected Presidents loses their memberships in a political party. This constitutional amendment will be voted in a referendum as a whole.
    Last edited by tahir0010; 18-04-17 at 05:26.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    The BBC is a nice feature article about the reforms proposed by the referendum. Here are the key points.

    1. Prime minster role scrapped, new vice president role created

    2. President becomes head of government as well as state, and can retain political party ties

    3. President given sweeping powers, with ability to enact laws by decree and dismiss parliament

    4. Parliament no longer able to scrutinise ministers

    5. Parliament given limited powers to investigate or impeach president


    Sounds like all the steps needed toward dictatorship.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/...rdogans_Turkey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolan View Post
    The BBC is a nice feature article about the reforms proposed by the referendum. Here are the key points.

    1. Prime minster role scrapped, new vice president role created

    2. President becomes head of government as well as state, and can retain political party ties

    3. President given sweeping powers, with ability to enact laws by decree and dismiss parliament

    4. Parliament no longer able to scrutinise ministers

    5. Parliament given limited powers to investigate or impeach president


    Sounds like all the steps needed toward dictatorship.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/...rdogans_Turkey
    And presidential election is only every 12 years, right?

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    Correct, but I do not think that is a big issue, as the people have continued to elect Ak Parti, and even though Ak Parti won 51 percent to 48 it was the difference of a million votes, and the entire population did not vote I think the voters were only at 48 Million and Turkey has inside a population of 75 million. The people still chose the referendum. The people I believe will reelect Erdogan. As you can see from this referendum people in Turkey are happy with him.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    ... and did nothing for the economy.
    Just Shame On You.

    After this comment, you are not worth to talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Just Shame On You.

    After this comment, you are not worth to talk.
    You are really going to sit here, and tell me that Ataturk advanced the government more then Erdogan please. This would be a ridiculous statement. You are also going to sit here, and tell me that Ataturk Parliamentary system was a good idea.... Where was Turkey at the time of Ataturk? What did he do were we a G20 nation.... No we weren't. Did Turkey have self reliance no we didn't. Did Turkey have a strong GDP no they did not. This is exactly why no one votes for CHP, and AK Parti holds the 317 seats in parliament and CHP holds only 133. CHP, and the kemalist idea is a flowed ideology that was never bound to prosper. Turkey is spreading the wealth, the trade has increased 7 fold with the Middle East. That is 32 billion dollars annually just from Trade with the Middle East, and you seriously want to sit here, and criticize that statement. These are facts Turkey economy is 10x stronger now under Ak Parti then it has ever been under CHP. Under AK Parti we have built 70% of Kazakhstans new capital. What did CHP do? What project did they do? Our economic growth rates, and the projects that we have done have grown our economy largely. These outside projects are one of the ways that we make money, as other economies pay us for building there economy so it is a steady flow of money for Turkey. Also AK Parti has spread the wealth with the people of Turkey, and the wage in Turkey under Ak Parti has more then I want to say tripled but I believe that it has doubled.. The statement I made holds truth I could have worded it better, but CHP and Kemalist idea have not advanced the country as much as AK Parti. You can say they founded the Turkish Republic, but look at Turkey in the 70s I think it was that parts of Istanbul did not even have full running water. Now look at Turkey today.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    You are really going to sit here, and tell me that Ataturk advanced the government more then Erdogan please. This would be a ridiculous statement. You are also going to sit here, and tell me that Ataturk Parliamentary system was a good idea.... Where was Turkey at the time of Ataturk? What did he do were we a G20 nation.... No we weren't. Did Turkey have self reliance no we didn't. Did Turkey have a strong GDP no they did not. This is exactly why no one votes for CHP, and AK Parti holds the 317 seats in parliament and CHP holds only 133. CHP, and the kemalist idea is a flowed ideology that was never bound to prosper. Turkey is spreading the wealth, the trade has increased 7 fold with the Middle East. That is 32 billion dollars annually just from Trade with the Middle East, and you seriously want to sit here, and criticize that statement. These are facts Turkey economy is 10x stronger now under Ak Parti then it has ever been under CHP. Under AK Parti we have built 70% of Kazakhstans new capital. What did CHP do? What project did they do? Our economic growth rates, and the projects that we have done have grown our economy largely. These outside projects are one of the ways that we make money, as other economies pay us for building there economy so it is a steady flow of money for Turkey. Also AK Parti has spread the wealth with the people of Turkey, and the wage in Turkey under Ak Parti has more then I want to say tripled but I believe that it has doubled.. The statement I made holds truth I could have worded it better, but CHP and Kemalist idea have not advanced the country as much as AK Parti. You can say they founded the Turkish Republic, but look at Turkey in the 70s I think it was that parts of Istanbul did not even have full running water. Now look at Turkey today.
    Ataturk restored Turkey after it was bankrupt.
    Erdogan will make Turkey bankrupt after an era of prosperity.
    I won't pitty the Turks that support Erdogan now, I'm sorry for those who don't want all this but get dragged into it.
    Pride has gotten in the way of common sense here.
    Erdogan has falsified the economic figures for 2016 but you're just hearing what you like to hear.
    And when Erdogan won't be able to hide the truth any more he'll make up a conspiracy theory of the west being against Turkey.
    You'll wake up when it will be to late.

    P.S just check the economic figures about Turkey from a source which is undependent of Erdogan

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Ataturk restored Turkey after it was bankrupt.
    Erdogan will make Turkey bankrupt after an era of prosperity.
    I won't pitty the Turks that support Erdogan now, I'm sorry for those who don't want all this but get dragged into it.
    Pride has gotten in the way of common sense here.
    Erdogan has falsified the economic figures for 2016 but you're just hearing what you like to hear.
    And when Erdogan won't be able to hide the truth any more he'll make up a conspiracy theory of the west being against Turkey.
    You'll wake up when it will be to late.

    P.S just check the economic figures about Turkey from a source which is undependent of Erdogan
    The best example how it will go down the hill is a recent story of one modern dictator, "Viva Chavez!".

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    Quote Originally Posted by tahir0010 View Post
    Correct, but I do not think that is a big issue, as the people have continued to elect Ak Parti, and even though Ak Parti won 51 percent to 48 it was the difference of a million votes, and the entire population did not vote I think the voters were only at 48 Million and Turkey has inside a population of 75 million. The people still chose the referendum. The people I believe will reelect Erdogan. As you can see from this referendum people in Turkey are happy with him.
    Apart the irregularities that have occurred, we have to add one other thing. Big cities have voted against Erdogan.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.
    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.
    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.
    O me zhabat në moçale, o me zhgabat lart në male!
    -Petro Nini Luarasi-

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    I do not think Erdogan will follow Chavez,

    Erdogan is like one of the ring holders,





    I think his mania with 'big things',
    will drive him to a wrong desicion,
    his 'big mouth' already revealed who are his targets,

    I think Turkey is huge to cover the food needs, and industrial strong enough, so not to become like a Latin America country,
    but I think Erdogan's megalomania will drive him to start a war, even a civil one
    after all, by the end of Arab spring he is the one left to become the defender of Islam,
    although Turkey is by far a Western country than others, yet is also so near Near-Middle East countries than any Western country,

    I hope to finish his duty peacefully and resign,
    his name passed to History,
    and the future historian will write his name as the reformer from parliamental to a presidential democracy
    but if his ambitious drive him to climb more,
    a war is certain.

    a simple referendum on if state should be presidential or parliamental
    via the polarization, mess up Turkey and EU,
    and become a subject of division in Turkey and EU.
    reminds old days after the civil war in Greece, which even the echo returns as ghost
    that is not a wise method-policy, to divide people for a simple question.

    I am not a Turkish citizen,
    so to decide if it is good or bad for Turkey,
    but I think Turkey needs political stability, and calm
    and not polarization.

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