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Thread: French elections

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Germany and Switzerland aren't France. AFAIK, France is one of the most welcoming countries for foreigners in Europe. There may be tensions with Muslims now, but otherwise a huge proportion of famous French people are of foreign origin. I listed a few here. There are especially lots of French people of Italian, Spanish, Polish, Ashkenazi Jewish, and Armenian descent. The French government has passed a series of laws that makes it illegal to make statistics based on ethnicity or religion to prevent discrimination. That is in the spirit of the values of égalité and fraternité of the French Revolution, but also because the French are so ethnically mixed themselves (Gascons, Bretons, Alsatians, Provençals, etc.).
    Yeah, their slogan, Liberté, égalité, fraternité is the reason why France attracted so many immigrants. For example, Korean I mentioned in my other post. It is because of this reason most of their immigrants are people who have not got enough money to go to The States or Australia to study. If you can get in French university, you need a minimum of B2 Standard, you only pay like 400 euros per year just like local students.

    Having said that, it is not true for the Korean I spoke about. This is because she studied in private Universities in Paris. Those were very expensive and the cost of living in Paris was expensive and still is!

    In Australia if you are an international student For example, if you are enrolled in a Bachelor of Commerce and taking the equivalent of 48 credit points each year (1 EFTSL) then you will pay $38,500 Aud for the first year (2017), and this fee is likely to increase each year.

    For Australians and Kiwis and Australian PR holders tuition fees will be subsidised by the Australian Government. You will pay the remainder – called a 'student contribution amount' and set by the University for your particular study.

    Germany and Japan were two countries that were so preoccupied with racial purity and superiority that it eventually led to WWII. Japan remains to this day a country where it is very difficult to emigrate, especially if one isn't East Asian. Foreigners make up only 1.5% of the Japanese population, and 95% of them are East Asians or 2nd/3rd generation Japanese from South America. Westerners, South Asians, Middle Easterners and Africans only represent 0.1% of the population. Although Japan like to describe itself as a hospitable country for tourists, Westerners who live in Japan are frequently harassed by the police for no reason. I should know, it happened to me. I was asked for my ID card and bicycle registration 4 times in a single month at one point, and I was clearly only targeted because I didn't look East Asian. The police only asked me, the only gaijin around, in the crowded streets of Tokyo.
    Nobody ever asked to see my ID card, but they were obsessed with my origins. They like to make assumptions based on ignorance, and a lot of generalising.

    I would then make fun of them in French. Then they would apologised.

    With that in mind, I don't think even Muslims can complain about their treatment in Germany, a country that was more intolerant of foreigners than Japan until 1945. Germany has made tremendous progress toward integrating foreigners. They even changed the nationality law from jus sanguinis to jus soli, mostly to give the right to second and third generation Turkish immigrants to claim German citizenship. In a culture that has long defined itself by its ancestry, that's quite a big step. In contrast, Japanese people have changed very little in their conception of who should be recognised as Japanese since 1945. Most still consider that Japanese born abroad aren't real Japanese, even if they were born of two Japanese parents and are fluent in Japanese.
    Chinese do that too.

    Now, there is something I notice about the Indians. They love to say something we are ALL Asians. It is like they are trying to say we are the same or something. I personally don’t think Chinese are the same as Indians. They practice child marriages, we don’t. They have caste system, we don’t. They eat with their hands, we eat with our chopsticks, we got slanted eyes, they have round big eyes and the list goes on...

    This is especially ridiculous when they are talking to somebody like me who rarely hang around with Asians, with the exception of a few friends and my family. Moreover, the place I work I am the only Asian. I had to fit in, so if they want to talk to me, they don’t need to pull that stunt. I can work with all people Asian or not.

    I remember my high school Japanese teacher's comment on the Indians, “I went to London once” she said in Japanese, then, she had that look on her face, “a LOT of Indians.” She said in Japanese.

    Speaking of Indians, I went to Japan once with my ex- boyfriend (French). He has a problem with the Indians. He thinks they are disgusting. So, every time we saw one, he had to publicly humiliate them. I had to tell him to stop. It was just not what an educated person would do in public. Luckily, nobody understood what he said. I was so embarrassed. The irony of this is that, he actually got a Master 2 degree.

    The British colonization on the Indian people must have made them this way. It is like the Filipinos, if you were white you go there, they would think you are Americanos.

    Having said that, there were two Indians I met in my bank in Australia that gave me the best impressions. They were well-mannered, neat and tidy.

    As for Switzerland, it has been one of the most secluded countries in European history, one where other countries have traditionally been kept at arm's length and seen with suspicion. Even today a majority of Swiss are wary of entering the European Union, despite being surrounded by it. Swiss nationality laws are some of the strictest in the world. It's not surprising that attitude to outsiders is less relaxed than in the US or France.
    In France, you need to be married to a French man after 5 years to be eligible to apply for French citizen. You need to pass several French tests. There will be interviews at the prefecture. You need to be involved in the French community, like get a job for example to be considered as you have successfully integrated into the French community.

    In Switzerland it is 10 years I think. I am not sure about the tests.
    Last edited by Minty; 02-05-17 at 07:37.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Generally, I agree, Bicicleur. However, we have millions of illegal immigrants who don't speak English, have no skills, and had no health screening or criminal background checks. Some of them are members of criminal gangs before they even arrive here. Yet, half the country won't even agree to turning over convicted felons for deportation. As I explained during the election, mass deportations are out of the question in the U. S. It's not Europe.

    Btw, there's no requirement that immigrants speak English. My parents didn't speak a word of it when they arrived. Asylum seekers aren't screened for much of anything.

    I'm sorry, but assimilation is a two way street. If you're treated with respect, acceptance, and even friendliness from day one it's much easier to let go of the past.

    This is a list of notable Turkish Americans. Now, many of the academics came here for research purposes, but most are just descendants of immigrants. I didn't even know some of them had a Turkish background until I read it here yesterday.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_Americans

    I was particularly surprised by the singers Neil Sedaka and Edie Gorme. I assumed he was Jewish of some sort and she was Italian.



    I thought her husband and singing partner was Italian. I looked it up and he was Jewish. So I was wrong twice. :)
    See, no one cares.



    @ Maciamo, France is indeed a completely different case. As for Switzerland, after my experience near Zurich as a teen-ager visiting some cousins I've never been back and I'll never set foot there again. It's the only time in my life I've ever been disrespected because of my ethnicity, and all because I addressed the postmaster in Italian. Stupid me, I thought I was showing respect by using one of the three official languages. From what I've heard Germany is as bad or worse. I'll never go there either, nor do I buy products from either country.

    Neil Sedaka is of Jewish origin.

    His father was a Sephardi Jew from Turkey while his mother was Ashkenazi Jewish from Poland and Russia.

    Somebody mentioned Isabelle Adjani.
    She has a Kabyle father and a Bavarian mother.

  3. #78
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    the US is still a young nation with vast territories and resources, founded by people with an open mind
    people in the US are open minded and mobile
    it is still the land of oportunity for every one

    Europe has the burden of a long and complicated history
    most people are not mobile and many are jealous of succesful people
    I think you will recognise this with some of your relatives in Italy too

    immigration policy is completely different
    the US choses its immigrants
    they must be mulitlingual or English speakers
    they must have the proper skills to make it in America
    when they come to America they know that they will have to rely on themselves and their own skills
    they also know that if they make it, they will be respected

    political correctness has manipulated some false feeling of guilt upon the European administrators
    they allow immigration for the wrong reasons
    they think that everybody is entitled to the same rights and material comfort as the Europeans
    they attract the wrong people, often people that even can't make it in their own native country
    many of them are illiterate, more of them speak only their native language and are not used to meet strangers

    yesterday it was in the news : many (?) Syrians, even some that are granted asylum in Europe go back to Syria
    again they have to rely on human trafickers, because Turkey don't allow them to cross Turkey to get back into Syria
    they take the plane to Greece and from there they are smuggled into Turkey by human traffickers
    these people interviewed realise that because of the language they can't get a job and they find it hard to learn the language of their host country
    they are dissapointed because things are not as they were promised by the human trafickers who brought them into Europe and now they are homesick
    I ask you, if they are unable to assimilate and if it is safe enough for them to return home, why were some of them granted asylum in the first place?

    Errrr....not quite. My American relatives are from Taiwan. Their English is quite poor. They live in the Taiwanese/Chinese suburbs in CA. The Chinese communities in California are so big, they do not need to speak English at all to survive.

    However, unlike the immigration to Europe, you got to have money to migrate to the US. This part is indeed very different.

    In the US, they have Taiwanese Town, China Town, Japanese Town, Korean Town, Vietnamese Town and so on. They are segregated in CA. This is very different from Australia, yeah we got China town, but in there you can find Korean supermarkets, Japanese supermarkets etc. We live amongst white people and others, it is not like the US.

    My mum does not speak English very well. In New South Wales, there are even jobs where they hire Mandarin/Cantonese speakers to service elderly Chinese people who can't speak English very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Bicicleur, I'm not quite that old! :) I wasn't there until after 1971, but I guess it was still "in the air". The party wasn't dissolved until 1989, and 45% of Swiss people voted to deport hundreds of thousands of legal, card-carrying immigrants, men, women, and children, and fellow Europeans at that.

    I wish the country and its citizens no ill, but there are a lot of other places to spend my money.
    Overly ordered Swiss?

    Up until know I get in the Mediterranean world mostly a surprised response with my 6 feet 4 and large German head in Greece especially by the older people (mostly only big eyes....).

    Just a few weeks ago in a little village in the Maroc Rif mountains I heard every time the surprised whisper (I was with my family, my sons are quite large too) "Alemanni, Alemanni!", probably the local name of all Germans above the Alps. But the people stayed always very friendly and talkative.


    And in Rome, at first when I was about the twenty years old, the woman (on their sharp styled vespa's) kind of tempted me with pretty laughs and "ciao bello", "ciao bello", it flattered me but at the same time, as a reserved, shy boy from NW Europe I wasn't used to that kind of playful behavior, with southern flair Must have been funny for them .... But in the bus to the Vatican a man was very touchy in a sticky way...I must admit that after the surprise my primair reaction was to furiously tell him in my lower german dialect to immediately stop that kind of behavior...(worked well).

    But this are are all kind of "droll" experiences nothing compared what you family sadly enough experienced....

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    .....
    However I still think the main succes to immigration is a proper selection of the immigrants.
    The US applied the same criteria for all immigrants, except for the black slaves they imported.
    .....
    The same criteria was NOT applied to US immigrants. Setting aside immigrants before the US was formed, there were very different policies in place at various times in its history. After WW1, there was a severe limitation on southern and eastern European immigrants, for example. Your larger point may be that the US controls its LEGAL immigration. It has not made a serious effort to control its illegal immigration. Too many influential parties benefit from the illegals. A brief story. My last name is unusual and for the uninformed has been confused as being Hispanic (meaning New World Spanish speaker). While in a Middle Atlantic state, I was asked to interview for a position that had a Guatemalan clientele. The issue was a large number of illegal Guatemalans serving as domestic labor for wealthy citizens. The firm wanted a Hispanic to be the face of the firm with these people. A few months later President Clinton had to turn away 2 nominees for the Supreme Court because they had Hispanic illegals working for them. (My lack of Hispanic background was revealed by more senior staff and I did not get the job.)
    The shape of immigrants in the US has been affected by the illegals. I have very limited experience with them, but there are large numbers. The US is a 'soupy stew' - soupy meaning inter-marriage, and stew, no inter-marriage - among divergent cultures. Illegals largely want to fit in to the US, as do most legals. Economics is the key.

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