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    The Bell Beaker by Olalde and Reich et al. 2017

    Guys, abstract is out

    Abstract: The Bell Beaker Complex (BBC) was the first widely distributed archaeological phenomenon of western Europe, arising after 2800 BCE probably in Iberia and spreading to the north and east before disappearing at the latest by 1800 BCE. An open question is the extent to which the cultural elements associated with the BBC spread through movement of ideas or people. We present new genome-wide DNA data from 196 Neolithic and Bronze Age Europeans – the largest report of genome-wide data in a single study to date – and merge it with published data to form a dataset with 109 BBC individuals that provides a genomic characterization of the BBC across its geographic and temporal range. In contrast to people of the Corded Ware Complex who were partly contemporaries of the BBC in central and eastern Europe and who brought steppe ancestry into central Europe through mass migration and replacement of local populations, we show that the initial spread of the BBC into central Europe from the Iberian Peninsula was not mediated by a large-scale migration but rather through communication of ideas. However, the further spread of the BBC beyond central Europe did involve mass movement of people. Focusing on Britain, which includes 81 of our new samples in a time transect from 3900-1300 BCE, we show that the arrival of the BBC around 2400 BCE was mediated by migration from the continent: British individuals associated with Beakers are genetically indistinguishable from continental individuals associated with the same material culture and genetically nearly completely discontinuous with the previously resident population. Such discontinuity persists through to samples from the Bronze Age, documenting a demographic turnover at the onset of the Bronze Age that was crucial to understand the formation of the present-day British gene pool. The arrival of the BBC in Britain can thus be viewed as the western continuation of the massive movement of people that brought the Corded Ware Complex and steppe ancestry into central Europe a few hundred years before.

    Olalde, Reich, et al., Western Europe during the third millennium BCE: A genetic characterization of the Bell Beaker Complex,

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    so,

    a. how much of Y-dna will the paper have?
    b. How much of the 109 bell beakers samples are from south of parallel 45?
    c. How many of the 81 samples from Britain will contribute to the 109 bell beakers?

    d. Have they found Y-dna for earlier Iberian beakers? is it r1b or I2a or other?
    e. do earlier Iberian (south 45 parallel) beaker show no "steppe" DNA?

    So many questions, so many questions!

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Finally an abstract, but it does not provide any clear answer. Instead we get contradictory information.

    "In contrast to people of the Corded Ware Complex who were partly contemporaries of the BBC in central and eastern Europe and who brought steppe ancestry into central Europe through mass migration and replacement of local populations, we show that the initial spread of the BBC into central Europe from the Iberian Peninsula was not mediated by a large-scale migration but rather through communication of ideas."

    => Here it says, just as I have always claimed, that the Bell Beaker phenomenon did not involve any mass migration or population replacement. I have explained before that the Bell Beaker was a cultural phenomenon that spread through a trade network.

    "However, the further spread of the BBC beyond central Europe did involve mass movement of people. Focusing on Britain, which includes 81 of our new samples in a time transect from 3900-1300 BCE, we show that the arrival of the BBC around 2400 BCE was mediated by migration from the continent: British individuals associated with Beakers are genetically indistinguishable from continental individuals associated with the same material culture and genetically nearly completely discontinuous with the previously resident population."

    Here they claim that there was a mass migration from the continent to Britain to completely replaced the Megalithic population. However that change only occurred from 2400 BCE, around the time of the emergence of the Únětice culture (from 2300 BCE). We already knew that R1b people with genomes very similar to Unetice introduced the Bronze Age to Ireland by 2000 BCE. I had estimated that R1b arrived in Britain around 2200 BCE based on the age of the first bronze artefacts. 200 years is a very little gap considering the inaccuracy of carbon dating. What this study seems to be showing is that Unetice-like R1b invaders entered Britain around 2400-2200 BCE, and replaced the earlier Megalithic population. However, the Iberian Bell Beaker people were in continuity with the Megalithic population. In other words there was no Bell Beaker ethnicity, as I have always said. There were Megalithic people descended from Neolithic Near Eastern farmers and Mesolithic West Europeans, and Unetice-like people who were a blend of Steppe invaders (most paternal lineages and some maternal ones) and Neolithic Central Europeans (at least half of maternal lineages).
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    @maciamo.
    What you said makes absolutly no sense. Not in a world of humans....

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    From my understanding the abstract says that Bell Beaker started in Iberia and through cultural exchange (not people) it spread to Central Europe. The Bell Beakers in Central Europe were a continuation of the Steppe migration and what brought Bell Beaker to Britain was an actual migration of people and there was discontinuity from the earlier population. These people made a major contribution to the genetics of the British. It is similar to what happened in Ireland with the earlier Cassidy paper.

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    It only makes sense if central european BB showed no iberian BB admix. If its the case. Correct. Case closed.

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    One remaining question is where did R1b L51+ originate?


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    Most important is. ___ do those CE BB show no admix from iberia BB? Because that is what i read from the abstract. If that ends up not being the case then shame on them for wording this way the abstract . it would speaks volumes of their mind set.

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    They clearly state that "the initial spread of Bell Beaker from the Iberian Peninsula to Central Europe was not mediated by a large-scale migration but through communication of ideas".

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    Elizabeth...yes. As long as they don't mean that CE BB had a different admix than south BB. Because E V E R Y B O D Y knows in the last 20 years that BB in CE are half breeds between BB and Cwc.

    They need to mean that CE BB had NO or very little south european BB admix. Makes sense?

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    Since they'll all be "EEF like with some additional WHG", I don't understand what kind of proof they'll have from the genetics that there was no population movement toward Central Europe, unless Iberia was much more I2a heavy than Central Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Mons View Post
    Most important is. ___ do those CE BB show no admix from iberia BB? Because that is what i read from the abstract. If that ends up not being the case then shame on them for wording this way the abstract . it would speaks volumes of their mind set.
    I suppose that the reason for this apparent contradiction is that there was an almost complete collapse of Neolithic societies in Ireland and Britain centuries before the arrival of BB culture. Note that the authors say that only the movements beyond- but not those within Central Europe involved a significant movements of people.

    There's a comprehensive paper that documents these aforementioned changes in Ireland:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10...963-016-9093-0

    The authors included an animated map that shows several apparent population collapses starting 3200 B.C.:

    http://www.edge-cdn.net/video_1052270?playerskin=37016

    If Neolithic-Chalcolithic societies were equally fragile in Britain - and the archaeological records seems to indicate that they were - it's hardly surprising that the local Bell Beaker phase would look like less of an elite phenomenon than in Central Europe.

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    To all, I think is not clear where the ambiguity of the abstract is:

    …….The initial spread of BBC (from Portugal, then to Spain, then to south of France then Switzerland... package one) into (then when those BB migrated to Central europe, into package one and the one he really seems to care....) Central Europe was not mediated by a large scale migration (meaning it was not those Iberian BB from Portugal switerland etc, that massively replace cental europeans..), but rather trought communication of ideas (<I> because those BB in Central europe had a very different admix which we all know for ages since at least 2000 ... and that heavy admix moved and replaced heavly great britain... but that we already know)…..

    The question is that the paragraph can mean that the first block of Iberian BB that was a package of people that actually migrated to one place to the other up until Switzerland, not mixing, women brought from other places behind to marry them etc WHEN, and only WHEN they migrated to Central Europe they did not do so based on a Large scale migration but by communication Ideias because people in Central Europe had a different admix than the southern ones of even Switzerland .

    If that is the case , what Reich is saying in the paper is what I have been saying here all along and mentioning Desideri, and Nm dental traits, and Roth, hand half breeds, etc. that they did not massively replace PEOPLE IN CENTRAL EUROPE, but rather exchange Ideias WITH THOSE PEOPLE OF CWC and that is why there is people there with steppe admix that were BB. If its as simple as that than Reich has become a bullshiter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Mons View Post
    The question is that the paragraph can mean that the first block of Iberian BB that was a package of people that actually migrated to one place to the other up until Switzerland, not mixing, women brought from other places behind to marry them etc WHEN, and only WHEN they migrated to Central Europe they did not do so based on a Large scale migration but by communication Ideias because people in Central Europe had a different admix than the southern ones of even Switzerland .
    What's the general trajectory for BB culture in the most rudimentary sense you deem most likely? I've settled for something like Iberia -> South France - Switzlerland -> Baden (South-West Germany, where the coexist with CW for a while).

    BTW: early contact between BB and CW in South-West Germany appears to have been a largely peaceful affair - despite inhabitating the same regions each culture stuck to its preferred ecosystem: CW went into the forests while BB preferred plains and mountains, which made conflict unnecessary for all intents and purposes.

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    still, I would like to know who those Iberian BB people were
    I don't think the Iberian chalcolithic, which started a few centuries before Iberian BB was a local neolithic development, there must have been some immigrants

    did a few Iberian BB mix with incoming steppe tribes in the Carpathian Basin and did these people move en masse toward Italy, NW Europe and the British Isles?

    we'll have to await the actual paper

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    still, I would like to know who those Iberian BB people were
    I don't think the Iberian chalcolithic, which started a few centuries before Iberian BB was a local neolithic development, there must have been some immigrants
    I think what the aDNA has shown is that what makes Chl. Iberians stand out is that they are less descended from immigrants. For some reason there was something like a Mesolithic resurgence in Western Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    I think what the aDNA has shown is that what makes Chl. Iberians stand out is that they are less descended from immigrants. For some reason there was something like a Mesolithic resurgence in Western Europe.
    it's impossible to tell
    Iberian chalcolithic had increased WHG, but was this increased WHG Iberian in origin?
    there is no trace of a gradual development of metallurgy in Iberia, suddenly it was there with full know-how
    doubtful that this was an autochtonous Iberian development

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    it's impossible to tell
    Iberian chalcolithic had increased WHG, but was this increased WHG Iberian in origin?
    there is no trace of a gradual development of metallurgy in Iberia, suddenly it was there with full know-how
    doubtful that this was an autochtonous Iberian development
    If I recall correctly, Mesolithic ancestry was markedly higher in the south of Iberia. That's also where the early metallurgical centers are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    If I recall correctly, Mesolithic ancestry was markedly higher in the south of Iberia. That's also where the early metallurgical centers are.
    megalithic sites had already higher WHG then the first cardium ware sites, and chalcolithic had another step more WHG
    the question remains : who brought metalurgy to Iberia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    megalithic sites had already higher WHG then the first cardium ware sites, and chalcolithic had another step more WHG
    the question remains : who brought metalurgy to Iberia?
    Good question. It would seem that early copper working in Europe has a Balkan-Mediterranean association and spread along the coasts, but I'm not aware of any documented east to west movements. Though I wouldn't discount the possibility that southern Iberia simply had a population density in the Mesolithic, which relatively reduced the demic impact of migrating farmers. Who knows.

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    A few comments: the paper is written by Yamnayists.

    In contrast to people of the Corded Ware Complex who were partly contemporaries of the BBC in central and eastern Europe and who brought steppe ancestry into central Europe through mass migration and replacement of local populations, we show that the initial spread of the BBC into central Europe from the Iberian Peninsula was not mediated by a large-scale migration but rather through communication of ideas.
    Well, I think that Bell Beakers had not cellulars to send whatsapps or to phone their friends of Germany, right? also I think that UPS was not delivering boxes by then... so such "communication of ideas" is clearly mediated by a little-scale migration (=/= large-scale migration).

    Another case is that "Corded Ware Complex who were partly contemporaries of the BBC in central and eastern Europe and who brought steppe ancestry into central Europe through mass migration and replacement of local populations" is not very appealing to the steppes but to Eastern Europeans peopling Central Europe... otherwise why not writing just that steppe people peopled Central Europe??

    However, the further spread of the BBC beyond central Europe did involve mass movement of people. Focusing on Britain,
    So there were mass migrations to Britain and beyond Central Europe: Scandinavia? Poland?...

    The arrival of the BBC in Britain can thus be viewed as the western continuation of the massive movement of people that brought the Corded Ware Complex and steppe ancestry into central Europe a few hundred years before.
    Nothing to say about Iberia? Again is only Central Europe who received such steppe ancestry? Between 2900 BC and 2400 BC is a 500 years gap, not to mention the different state-of-the-art (R1a vs R1b).

    By the way the abstract is providing a good hint: the steppe ancestry was traveling westwards (Iberia is not in the East right?), so that the original Iberian BB had not such ancestry... so it was necessary to get it in Central Europe after mixing with CW (CW = 70% steppe ancestry, Central Europe BB = 50% steppe encestry, then Iberian BB without steppe ancestry necessary to down such ancestry is 2 CW for each BB).
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    Quote Originally Posted by berun View Post
    By the way the abstract is providing a good hint: the steppe ancestry was traveling westwards (Iberia is not in the East right?), so that the original Iberian BB had not such ancestry... so it was necessary to get it in Central Europe after mixing with CW (CW = 70% steppe ancestry, Central Europe BB = 50% steppe encestry, then Iberian BB without steppe ancestry necessary to down such ancestry is 2 CW for each BB).
    I think one problem might be that Reich still adheres to the 3-way-model that includes Loschbour, which by now should be considered a reductio ad absurdum with regards to Mesolithic ancestry in present day & metal age Europeans.

    It's also sad that more than 70% of their BB samples come from Britain, a place that isn't very interesting when it comes to understanding ancient migrations. I wish researchers would pay more attention to France & West Germany, Switzerland and south Iberia, but I don't have high hopes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    It's also sad that more than 70% of their BB samples come from Britain, a place that isn't very interesting when it comes to understanding ancient migrations. I wish researchers would pay more attention to France & West Germany, Switzerland and south Iberia, but I don't have high hopes.
    That is not a choice, I think they take their samples with good prospects for high DNA recovery wherever they can find them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    That is not a choice, I think they take their samples with good prospects for high DNA recovery wherever they can find them.
    I quote Nick Pattersons replying to Fire Haireds complains at Davids with regard to this:

    1)
    @Samuel Andrews
    < I don't understand why the sampled the bleep out of Britain. Just like I don't
    < understand why they sampled the bleep out of Neolithic Hungary, East Germany, and North
    < Spain.
    I've seen this kind of comment quite often on this blog. It misundertands the aDNA world. We pretty much take what we can get. It's not as though you successfully
    recover aDNA from everywhere one would wish.
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2017/05...96713339443272

    For what it's worth it would be hugely interesting to see North-West European samples. But almost all of the Bell Beaker samples, which were almost invariably put in barrows in sand soils, have withered away due to the natural acidity of such soils. They left their mark tough as something called a "body silhouette", not unlike this Protruding Foot example:


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