V10 in England - where did my V10 originate?

[mongrel]

I’ve just had my results back from LivingDNA and am both somewhat surprised and confused! Obviously so when you realize how little I know of genetics – confused noob is an understatement.

So, here I am looking for some help, guidance and explanation of the results that I have had back.

I live in England, just as, I believed, all my ancestors had before me. In fact both my Y-DNA ancestor and my wife’s mtDNA ancestor were in the same one-road Derbyshire village at the same time a couple of hundred years or so ago!

Prior to sending off the kit, we’d done some basic ancestry work to confirm our roots and had got back to my 8^th direct line Y-DNA ancestor with the same ‘proper’ surname (my father was a chance-child so I have his mothers old-English/old-Norse surname, not the Danish/Scandinavian surname of my grandfather) in north Derbyshire (c1680) and a 7^th mtDNA ancestor (c1715) in the Welsh Marches of Shropshire, so all seemed assured…

My wife has turned out to be pure Celt – no surprises there! So, presuming no great population dispersal/relocation happened in or after the English Civil War (despite the proportionately huge loss of life), with the given lack of mass transport, I thought it would have been pretty safe to say, like my wife, I was a ‘natural’, deeply rooted Brit, albeit of a different ‘tribe’.

Yeah, right….

My haplogroups came back as E-V13 Y-DNA and V10 mtDNA!

So now I have Balkan and Saami origins?

…or less emotively, not your normal Angle/Saxon type of ancestry!

To summarise my results, my atDNA shows….

Europe 98.8%
Great Britain and Ireland 80.7%
Europe (North and West) 9.3%
Europe (unassigned) 8.7%
World (unassigned) 1.2%

(if I read it right, the ‘unassigned’ simply means too common to pin a location to it)

..but why no Balkan ‘trace’ to account for the presence of E-V13? Nor indeed for the V10, so I’m a little confused as to how to properly read the results.

To help with showing who I am, I’m happy to share my results, you can find them at my . livingdna . com/share/585b67ca-2b7c-11e7-b8ae-5254002fd1a4 without the spaces of course.

The Balkan E-V13 bit I can get my head around – potentially a Roman (Thracian) Auxilliary rather than a singleton immigrant (one male immigrant whose line provided the necessary 50+ consecutive male children to get to me seems a little unlikely) and ironically puts me on the opposite side of the Brigantes/Roman conflict I had envisaged.

Just as exciting, just not expected.

However, this V10 mtDNA does have me confused. I mean, Saami? Really? Where from?

How does Saami DNA get to 17^th Century middle England?

As an aside, there’s a picture of me at a few weeks old where I have always thought I appear to have an epicanthic fold effect to the eyes (either that or I was an alien substitute ‘cos I didn’t look exactly like my parents!) – the V10 presence may go someway to explain this or I may just be being fanciful. But my wife reckons I could certainly fit with a Saami phenotype, as my mother would have done and my female cousin apparently does.

Which raises the first question – why, with such a long time since the ‘injection’ of V10 blood, did I apparently have my marked affinity around the eyes to the Saami/Lappoid phenotype? Or is time irrelevant?

…and raises the next question too… since the V10 ancestor has to be female and would therefore likely, in that period, have been married rather than be travelling alone (I am presuming free-will here rather than enforced travel), she would have to be an immigrant to England since V10 does not ‘naturally’ occur here, so where and when would she (and her female ancestors) have originated? Scandinavia? Europe? Pre-17thC?

I’m not looking for some kind of romantic Norse/Viking link here by the way!

Was V10 readily present in Denmark/Germany for example? The earliest mtDNA ancestor I have found so far has the surname Ward, certainly a pre-Norman English surname so nothing to suggest anything other than English roots.

However, since we now need to be looking at the pre-Civil War period, I do wonder, dependent upon whether V10 was present in Europe, if there might be some mediaeval family migration involved, perhaps from troubles of the time of which there seem to be a-plenty. However, my knowledge of such a time and place is below zero so I could be spouting rubbish!

The LivingDNA results certainly have me with ancestors in Germany/Denmark/Belgium, suggesting an ancestral link back to there.

So why and how does V10 end up in west Shropshire? Certainly quite the mystery!

Either way, both my mtDNA and Y-DNA have me down as in immigrant to these isles – best watch I don’t get kicked out after Brexit :0P!!

[Maciamo]

Have you check the pages for Y-haplogroup E1b1b and mtDNA V on this site?

I don't know where you got your information, but E-V13 is very unlikely to have come to Britain with Roman auxiliaries or Thracians. In fact there is a higher chance that it came with Celtic or Germanic migrations during the Iron Age.

As for your mtDNA V, it has nothing to do with the Sami! The Sami belong exclusively to V1a1a and V5. On the other hand, V10 in typical of the British Isles, northwest France and Sweden, although it is not yet clear when it got there. It could have been anytime in history as V10 is over 7,000 years old. That's why mtDNA is not very useful for tracing ancestry.

You should focus especially your autosomal results to understand your overall ancestry (not just the patrilineal and matrilineal lines). I saw that your results show 80.7% of British ancestry, with over half of it in central England, which makes sense if you are from Shropshire. You also have 6.8% from West Germanic countries (e.g. Anglo-Saxons), 2.8% from Scandinavia (e.g. Vikings), and 8.7% unassigned parts of Europe. The unassigned will be refined in the coming months thanks to the ongoing country projects. But otherwise your results are completely normal for an English person. And as you can see you have no Balkan or Sami ancestry.

[mongrel]

Ahhh, well there you have it! Many thanks for your update Maciamo, much appreciated, told you I was a total noob. But in my defence, I did feel that the atDNA results did not tie in with what I was apparently reading.

What you say certainly sits a lot better with what we know of my Y-DNA line and a Germanic source fits perfectly and maybe not so long ago as the Iron Age considering my 'correct' surname, but more than happy to go with the Celt link (if only to keep on the wife's good side!) and I can go back to being a Brigantes!! Unfortunately, no subclade was given for the E-V13. As for the V10, thanks for clearing that up, it was certainly causing me confusion.

Regarding the autosomal DNA, the percentages I give above are my atDNA results at a global level, at a UK and European level they are

Great Britain and Ireland 80.7%
Lincolnshire 21.9%
Central England 15.9%
South Yorkshire 7%
Southeast England 6.1%
East Anglia 5.9%
Devon 5%
Northumbria 3.8%
Northwest England 3.6%
South England 3%
Cornwall 2.7%
South Wales Border 2.5%
South Central England 2.3%
Orkney 1.2%


Europe (North and West) 9.3%
Germanic 6.5%
Scandinavia 2.8%

Unassigned the remaining percentage.

...here the Central England item is the best fit with ancestors living in Derbyshire and Shropshire although the Shropshire (mtDNA) line packed its bags and left for London in the late 18thC.

So, it seems my E-V13+V10 combination is maybe not so rare after all.